67 replies to this topic

[SR781]

I have a Cosworth EA engine and have been searching the web, anyone familiar with them?

[2F-001]

This is the one based on a Chevrolet Vega block, isn't it? My understanding was that these were linerless, being made from an alloy with a high silicon (??) content. I don't know if this is the same as that used for some of the V8 CanAm blocks used by McLaren which was a Reynolds product, I believe. Given the McLaren/Chevrolet/Reynolds links, I assume there is a connection. I recall the material being described as (some word like) 'hypereustecnic' though I have no idea what it means.

Somewhere, I have some Cosworth drawings for an EA and the V8 CanAm block was described briefly in some McLaren promo literature of the day. I wouldn't be able to lay my hands on either in a hurry though.

Didn't Guy Edwards run an EA in a Lola (T290 or 292?) in the European 2-litre sports car series?

[SR781]

My engine was John Nicholson's of Nicholson McLaren, yes they were liner less and the bores were coated with Nickasil and later Chevrolet had the Road going version but even though there were similaritys the EA had different Manifold stud sizes and Dry Sumped and Lucas Fuel Injection.

[The Chasm]

It would be lovely to reunite this engine with the Kaditcha ?. An outstanding combination, and the original driver was a talented steerer too.

[SR781]

It is being reunited with the Kaditcha SR781, hence my User name, i also have the first Kaditcha Barry's own Open Wheeler.

[BRG]

I recall the material being described as (some word like) 'hypereustecnic' though I have no idea what it means.
 

Don't worry, nor did the advertising executive who invented it.

[Tony Matthews]

I did a cutaway drawing of the EA engine, but quite frankly posting images here is such a pain I'm not prepared to waste precious free time attempting it. However, I could send it to a Facebook friend (so easy it is laughable!) who could do it for me, if they will. Can't decide who to pester...heh heh. Assuming anyone wants to see it.

[Catalina Park]

Pick me!

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

TONY!!!  So great to see you back posting! 

[Catalina Park]

I don't know how he escaped, we've had him locked in the cupboard under the stairs for the past six months. (we had him locked in the attic before that but we will never get the stains out of the ceiling)

[kayemod]

I did a cutaway drawing of the EA engine, but quite frankly posting images here is such a pain I'm not prepared to waste precious free time attempting it.

 

Welcome back to TNF, hope this isn't a one-off. I don't think there's a single one of us who likes the forum's current features, or rather the lack of them, but it's not all that bad once you get used to it. Has to be said though, that every other forum I've ever joined or visited works better. Given their investment in time and money, I can't understand why someone at Autosport doesn't listen to our complaints and finish the job they started.

[Marc Sproule]

Welcome back to TNF, hope this isn't a one-off. I don't think there's a single one of us who likes the forum's current features, or rather the lack of them, but it's not all that bad once you get used to it. Has to be said though, that every other forum I've ever joined or visited works better. Given their investment in time and money, I can't understand why someone at Autosport doesn't listen to our complaints and finish the job they started.

 

since flickr "upbuggered" their system...as one wag put it....it too has been a royal pain in the butt to deal with. there is talk that because of all the complaints they will be offering a way to use it in the formerly unbuggered way.

 

at least on this forum i can post a link to my stuff on flickr and people can see it that way.

[kayemod]

Each to his own, use whatever system of posting pics that works best for you, but I've had no problems with Photobucket, which I've found much simpler to use than Imageshack.

[rasimmo]

I`ll second that.

[Catalina Park]

Tony has asked me to post this for him...

[SR781]

I have Photo's of the Car and Engine, how do you post them on here????

[The Chasm]

There is a process - not user friendly, all laid out in a topic on the front page. I used to be able to do it - but it has got a whole lot more difficult recently. They call this "progress".

[Tony Matthews]

Thanks for posting the cutaway. Michael.

[bradbury west]

Nice to see you here again Tony. Hope all is well. Thanks for the EA drawing

Roger

[Catalina Park]

Tony has asked me to post this for him...

I can see the problem, those back two main bearing caps are swinging in the breeze.

[Ray Bell]

Tony, as far as I can see there's been no change to posting photos...

But there is frustration because they don't appear immediately when you make the post, you have to refresh the page and they're there for you.

[Tony Matthews]

Ray, it may not have changed for you, but my only option is to pay, which I'm not prepared to do, and I haven't got time or patience for frustrations.  

[SR781]

I have some pictures i want to post but have tried Imageshack with no luck, any suggestions?

[mariner]

I suppose the obvious question about the EA project is WHY?

 

The Vega block had many issues in production form and was cost engineered to the bone so no obvous reason it had any benefits for the Cosworth head over a very similar and well developed Ford block other than weight. The Vega had long stroke/narrow bore layout for its 2.3 litres so not much chance of bigger capacity either.

 

Was it just GM money or was there someothe Vega block advantage ?

Edited by mariner, 14 December 2014 - 03:31.

[raceannouncer2003]

I have some pictures i want to post but have tried Imageshack with no luck, any suggestions?

 

Try post image:

 

http://postimage.org

 

Vince H.

[kayemod]

I suppose the obvious question about the EA project is WHY?

 

The Vega block had many issues in production form and was cost engineered to the bone so no obvous reason it had any benefits for the Cosworth head over a very similar and well developed Ford block other than weight. The Vega had long stroke/narrow bore layout for its 2.3 litres so not much chance of bigger capacity either.

 

Was it just GM money or was there someothe Vega block advantage ?

 

 

The Chevy Vega was 2.3 litres with a liner-less alloy block and iron single-cam head, a strange combination. GM's plan was for a de-stroked 2 litre version for F2 and sports cars, and initially things looked fairly promising, Cosworth designed an alloy twin-cam head, and soon had it producing better power with significantly less weight than a BDA, but a fatal flaw was the one remaining Chevrolet part in the EA engine, that alloy block. GM tried everything, changing materials and heat treatments etc, but whatever they did, just about every block suffered from porosity to some degree, eventually the bores used to split, and in the end Keith Duckworth decided that they were wasting their time, that the thing was never going to work, and canned the whole project. Accepting defeat with the race engine idea, Chevrolet introduced the Cosworth-Vega hatchback with a de-tuned version of the 2 litre all-alloy twin-cam race engine, but due to US emission controls, the engine was strangled, and I don't think they managed to sell very many of them.

[Rupertlt1]

 

I recall the material being described as (some word like) 'hypereustecnic' though I have no idea what it means.
 

 

Don't worry, nor did the advertising executive who invented it.

 

The word is "hypereutectic" and it does have a technical meaning.

Edited by Rupertlt1, 14 December 2014 - 11:46.

[SR781]

Try post image:

 

http://postimage.org

 

Vince H.

Thanks for that link but still cannot upload photo

[SR781]

I suppose the obvious question about the EA project is WHY?

 

The Vega block had many issues in production form and was cost engineered to the bone so no obvous reason it had any benefits for the Cosworth head over a very similar and well developed Ford block other than weight. The Vega had long stroke/narrow bore layout for its 2.3 litres so not much chance of bigger capacity either.

 

Was it just GM money or was there someothe Vega block advantage ?

 

In reply to 'WHY'

 

The car was built in 1978 with the Nicholson McLaren Cosworth EA Engine and FG400 Gearbox, and later had a Mazda Rotary fitted and when i chose to find the car back in 1996 the Original Engine was the first part i came across and the Engine was damaged needing a New Crank, Rods and Pistons which have all been replaced.

Edited by SR781, 15 December 2014 - 08:43.

[Ray Bell]

I think the 'Why?' related to why they did it in the first place, not why you are going that way now...

What problem are you having with Postimage? Can you upload? Are you unclear on what to do after that?

Do you want some instructions because it is really simple?

[The Chasm]

Image posting on this forum may be "simple" for some, but it is certainly NOT user friendly !.

 

Does anyone else agree with me, or should we just forget about it ?.

 

There are other forums where image posting is so easy, so why the problem here - I don't understand.

[Rupertlt1]

I think the 'Why?' related to why they did it in the first place, not why you are going that way now...

 

Petersen's The Complete Chevrolet Book, 4th Edition, 1975, Pages 69-70.

"Back in '70, Keith Duckworth, crea-

tor of winning Grand Prix engines

and the brains behind England's Cos-

worth Engineering Ltd., designed the

16-valve head that now sits atop the

Vega block. In '69, Keith learned that

GM was working on an aluminum 4-

banger as a possible power source

for the yet-to-be-produced Vega.

Duckworth had been wanting to build

a strong 2-liter racing engine - and

preferably aluminum - so news of the

Vega block really turned him on.

Chevrolet was most cooperative.

Duckworth made a 1969 visit to De-

troit to inspect the new engines and

one year later Vega block castings

arrived at the British shop. Within a

few months, Cosworth's first Vega

engine was complete and running.

Chevrolet's interest in the project

quickly grew, bringing an offer to pay

for the engine's development in ex-

change for three complete cylinder

heads. Duckworth agreed. Ready to

race, the engine produced 270 hp

(on alcohol) at-would you be-

lieve- 8750 rpm and 170 lbs.-ft of

torque at 7000 rpm, making it the

most powerful unsupercharged 2-liter

in racing. Its first competitive experi-

ence came in '71 at South Africa's

Springbok Series, and its perfor-

mance was so impressive that by

spring, Lola and Chevron had or-

dered the first 18 units produced."

 

Why Cosworth (and others) did not simply persist with the Ford unit is that it would not satisfactorily stretch to 2-litres.

See: http://www.motorspor...-are-unreliable

 

This was one of those times when the same basic engine was used in F2 and sports car racing, and a lucrative market beckoned.

 

By 1978 the Cosworth EA engine was definitely in the leftover category - despite the early optimism the Chevrolet project was a flop.

 

RGDS RLT

 

 

 

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by The Chasm
Image posting on this forum may be "simple" for some, but it is certainly NOT user friendly !.
 
Does anyone else agree with me, or should we just forget about it ?.
 
There are other forums where image posting is so easy, so why the problem here - I don't understand.

This is a totally different issue to what was being discussed...

There are fora where they will host the picture and so you upload directly, the difference here is that you have to upload it to another site and then link to posts here.

After 15 years of using this forum, I must have seen hundreds of people whinging about how hard it is. But I have seen thousands of people who have done it successfully. If you don't understand how it works and don't try to you will never be able to do it.

Edited by Ray Bell, 15 December 2014 - 13:00.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Rupertlt1
Petersen's The Complete Chevrolet Book, 4th Edition, 1975, Pages 69-70.
"Back in '70, Keith Duckworth, creator of winning Grand Prix engines and the brains behind England's Cosworth Engineering Ltd., designed the 16-valve head that now sits atop the Vega block. In '69, Keith learned that GM was working on an aluminum 4-banger as a possible power source for the yet-to-be-produced Vega.

Duckworth had been wanting to build a strong 2-liter racing engine - and preferably aluminum - so news of the Vega block really turned him on.

Chevrolet was most cooperative. Duckworth made a 1969 visit to Detroit to inspect the new engines and one year later Vega block castings arrived at the British shop. Within a few months, Cosworth's first Vega engine was complete and running.

Chevrolet's interest in the project quickly grew, bringing an offer to pay for the engine's development in exchange for three complete cylinder heads. Duckworth agreed.

Ready to race, the engine produced 270 hp (on alcohol) at - would you believe - 8750 rpm and 170 lbs/ft of torque at 7000 rpm, making it the most powerful unsupercharged 2-liter in racing. Its first competitive experience came in '71 at South Africa's Springbok Series, and its performance was so impressive that by spring, Lola and Chevron had ordered the first 18 units produced."
 
Why Cosworth (and others) did not simply persist with the Ford unit is that it would not satisfactorily stretch to 2-litres.
See: http://www.motorspor...-are-unreliable
 
This was one of those times when the same basic engine was used in F2 and sports car racing, and a lucrative market beckoned.
 
By 1978 the Cosworth EA engine was definitely in the leftover category - despite the early optimism the Chevrolet project was a flop

There you can read it now...

Edited by Ray Bell, 15 December 2014 - 14:34.

[Rupertlt1]

Ray, Forgive me but the reason type is set in columns, as in newspapers, is because it is easier to read. RGDS RLT

[Ray Bell]

On paper, perhaps...

I, for one, wasn't prepared to try to read it like it was.

[Rupertlt1]

You also altered the quote by introducing a question mark.

You may not like how an American journalist wrote his story in the 1970s - but attempting to subedit it now is comical. RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 15 December 2014 - 13:54.

[Ray Bell]

Generally a question is concluded with a question mark...

[Rupertlt1]

Yes, but quotes are quotes and should not be altered. RGDS RLT

[Ray Bell]

Okay, its incorrect state has been restored...

[SR781]

I think the 'Why?' related to why they did it in the first place, not why you are going that way now...

What problem are you having with Postimage? Can you upload? Are you unclear on what to do after that?

Do you want some instructions because it is really simple?

Hi Ray

Instructions would be helpful

Terry

[Ray Bell]

Fine, what point did you reach before you got into trouble?

Did you upload your pics?

Or maybe we should go back to the beginning, have you got them to a suitable size for use here?

[Roger Clark]

Is it possible to deal with these things on the dedicated thread or offline, through PM or email? I know that it can be complex and newcomers need some help, and it's great that people are prepared to do that, but it's very tiresome for some of us.

[Ray Bell]

The dedicated thread has been destroyed and this issue has in fact been dealt with by e-mail...

[Lee Nicolle]

Ray, it may not have changed for you, but my only option is to pay, which I'm not prepared to do, and I haven't got time or patience for frustrations.  

Tony, try Post Image. It is not too bad to use. Even technophobes like me can put pics up. Captions though are a different story. 

I put how in the bit at the top re posting images. and it is [at least at this time] free. 

No more long winded than Image Shack, though no less either. Just a double handle.

[Ray Bell]

It's been explained to you before, Lee...

Post Image has exactly the same capacity for fitting in captions as Imageshack. Nothing has changed there except your perception.

And I missed Tony's earlier post, as you quoted... Tony, I was forced to pay as I had nigh on 5000 images on Imageshack and I didn't want to lose them.

And now we've upset Roger again, right?

[SR781]

Picture of the car at Amaroo, thanks Ray for your help

 

 

[The Chasm]

Fantastic to see an image of this beautiful car once again !.

[SR781]

Another one

 

[Ray Bell]

That's at Lakeside, of course...

A lovely car, its 'orphan' engine was always a question to me. But it certainly was better than a Mazda rotary!