273 replies to this topic

[showtime]

http://www.italiarac...?id=49439&cat=1

• 18 years old
• Driving licence
• Passing a F1 regulation test
• 300 km on a F1
• Take part on 5 GPs the previous season or 15 in the last 3 seasons (for non rookies)
• Have at least 40 points with points given as follows:

FIA F2
60 – 50 – 40 – 30 – 20 – 10 – 8 – 6 – 4 – 3

GP2
50 – 40 – 30 – 20 – 10 – 8 – 6 – 4 – 3 – 2 

FIA F3 European, WEC (LMP1), IndyCar
40 – 30 – 20 – 10 – 8 – 6 – 4 – 3 – 2 – 1

GP3, Formula Renault 3.5
30 – 20 – 15 – 10 – 7 – 5 – 3 – 2 – 1 

SuperFormula
20 – 15 – 10 – 7 – 5 – 3 – 2 – 1 

Formula 3 Nazionali e FIA F4
10 – 7 – 5 – 2 – 1 

Formula Renault 2.0 (ALPS, Eurocup, NEC)
5 – 3 – 1

[Jackman]

The changes are surprising: they can be found here: http://www.fia.com/s...cembre 2014.pdf

 

The relevant super licence modifications are as follows:

 

MODIFICATIONS FOR 2016

 

CHAPTER I - FIA INTERNATIONAL DRIVERS’ LICENCES

5. Qualification for the Super Licence

The FIA Formula One Driver Super Licence is issued by the FIA.

5.1 Qualifications

5.1.1 The driver must be the holder of a current FIA International Grade A licence.

5.1.2 The driver must also satisfy at least one of the following requirements:

a) have made at least 5 starts in races counting for the FIA Formula One World Championship for Drivers the previous year, or at least 15 starts within the previous 3 years.

b) have previously held the Super Licence and have been the regular test driver with an F1 World Championship team for the previous year.

c) have been classified, within the previous 2 years, in the first 3 of the final classification of: the F2 Championship, or the International F3 Trophy, or the GP2 Series, or the GP2 Asia Series or the Japanese F/Nippon Championship,

d) have been classified in the first 4 of the final classification of the Indycar IRL series within the previous 2 years,

e) be the current champion of one of the following:

- Formula 3 Euro Series

- The principal national F3 championships of: Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Spain

- World Series F/Renault V6

N.B.: the title of Champion is considered valid for 12 months from the last race of the relevant series or championship season.

f) be judged by the FIA to have consistently demonstrated outstanding ability in single-seater formula cars, but with no opportunity to qualify under any of c) to e) above. In this case the F1 team concerned must show that the applicant has driven at least 300 km in a current Formula One car consistently at racing speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days, completed not more than 90 days prior to the application and certified by the ASN of the country in which the test took place.

5.1.2 The driver must be the holder of a valid driving licence when he applies for a Super Licence for the first time.

5.1.3 The driver must be at least 18 years old at the start of the event of his first F1 race weekend.

5.1.4      a) The first time he applies for a Super Licence, the driver must successfully complete a question session regarding the most important points of the International Sporting Code and of the F1 Sporting Regulations.

b) For all successive F1 Super Licence requests, the F1 team concerned has to certify, through the F1 Super Licence application form, that they have held a briefing with their driver about the most important points of the International Sporting Code and of the F1 Sporting Regulations.

5.1.5 The driver must have completed at least 80% of each of two full seasons of any of the Championships reported in Supplement 1.

5.1.6 The F1 Team concerned must show that the applicant has driven at least 300 km in a representative Formula One car (1) consistently at racing speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days, completed not more than 180 days prior to the application and certified by the ASN of the country in which the test took place.

(1) TCC or TPC as defined in the F1 Sporting Regulations.

5.1.7 The driver must also satisfy at least one of the following requirements:

a) Have made at least five starts in races counting for the FIA Formula One World Championship for Drivers the previous year, or at least 15 starts within the previous 3 years.

b) Have accumulated at least 40 points during the three-year period preceding his application (Championships and points listed in Supplement 2).

5.2 Qualification for Free Practice Only Licence

5.2.1 The driver must be the holder of a current FIA International Grade A licence.

5.2.2 The driver must be the holder of a valid driving licence when he applies for a Super Licence for the first time.

5.2.3 The driver must be at least 18 years old at the start of the event of his first F1 race weekend.

 

SUPPLEMENT 1

Championships counting for Article 5.1.5

• Formula Renault 1.6 National and International Series

• Formula 3 National Championships

• Formula Renault 2.0 International Series (EuroCup,ALPS or NEC)

• Formula 4 National Championships certified by FIA

• IndyLight

• Japanese Super Formula

• GP3 series

• Formula Renault 3.5

• IndyCar

• FIA WEC (LMP1 only)

• FIA F3 European Championship

• GP2 series

• Future FIA F2 Championship

 

SUPPLEMENT 2

Table of points of the Championships counting for Article 5.1.7 b)

Classification in the annual overall points standings

1st

2nd

3rd

4th

5th

6th

7th

8th

9th

10th

Future FIA F2 Championship

60

50

40

30

20

10

8

6

4

3

GP2 series

50

40

30

20

10

8

6

4

3

2

FIA F3 European Championship

40

30

20

10

8

6

4

3

2

1

FIA WEC (LMP1 only)

40

30

20

10

8

6

4

3

2

1

Indy Car

40

30

20

10

8

6

4

3

1

1

GP3 series

30

20

15

10

7

5

3

2

1

0

Formula Renault 3.5

30

20

15

10

7

5

3

2

1

0

Japonese Super Formula

20

15

10

7

5

3

2

1

0

0

Formula 4 National Championships certified by FIA

10

7

5

2

1

0

0

0

0

0

National Championships of F3

10

7

5

2

1

0

0

0

0

0

Formula Renault (EuroCup, ALPS or NEC)

5

3

1

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

 

 

A few thoughts:

 

1. There won't be another Verstappen.

2. The idea of a licence test with the FIA on the Sporting Code and Regulations is entertaining.

3. The idea of a licence test with a new team on the Sporting Code and Regulations before signing is even more entertaining: "So Pastor, can we just turn now to regulation regarding allowing a competitor enough room..."

4. Having to compete 80% of 2 seasons in the juniors means no Red Bull parachute into 3.5 for couple of quick results before moving up.

5. Accumulation of 40 points is interesting when you look at how the points can be acquired: FRenault 3.5 is worth a lot less than GP2, and drops off a lot quicker. That's likely to impact where managers place their drivers.

6. Whatever the hell a "Future FIA F2 Championship" is, they're taking a big shot at every existing category...

[Elba]

So new rules to qualify for a superlicense in 2016.

I see no problem with any of the new requirements actually and the drivers and teams have a year to prepare for them.

 

No more youngsters like Verstappen and Kimi but those talented enough will find a way to F1 a bit later and surely the FIA will have built in some provisions that will allow for exceptions in case of special situations.

[BRG]

Good.  Sensible tightening of the requirements.  F1 should be for proven, experienced competitors, not novices with a fat wallet or a famous dad.

[Jackman]

Or a Red Bull contract, who seem to be the primary target. Along with 3.5.

[Prost1997T]

Those weightings are interesting to say the least...

[Viryfan]

it is clearly an attack against the whole renault sport system.

[Prost1997T]

it is clearly an attack against the whole renault sport system.

 

Which is sad as Renault is about the only organisation in Europe awarding prize money to junior series champions (enabling them to move up the formula ladder). Does Pirelli still pay a prize fund for GP3?

[Frank Tuesday]

it is clearly an attack against the whole renault sport system.

Hardly. 40 points are all that is needed. In FR3.5 2 second place finishes gives 40 points.  A win and a 4th place gives 40 points.  Even 8 sixth place finishes is enough to get your 40 points.  

 

My take on the points:  If they are going to make it so easy to get the required points, why bother with it at all. 

[babbel]

Hardly. 40 points are all that is needed. In FR3.5 2 second place finishes gives 40 points.  A win and a 4th place gives 40 points.  Even 8 sixth place finishes is enough to get your 40 points.  

 

My take on the points:  If they are going to make it so easy to get the required points, why bother with it at all. 

 

It's championship position not per race

[Fastcake]

That looks like a sensible set of requirements to me. I'm particularly interested in the idea of testing individual drivers on the sporting regulations. I do have hope this may help to stamp out the typically poor racing skills many recent GP2 graduates have demonstrated upon entering Formula One. The only missed opportunity was the suggestion of someone on here that all drivers should take part in a day of marshalling before racing.

 

The points weightings though are rather interesting. Putting the planned new-new-F2 championship at the top makes sense, as the FIA obviously want to attract drivers to their series, which may be hard to do if GP2 and FR 3.5 are still around when they launch it. But why is WEC not up there with it? And only LMP1? Surely competing in other categories and championships deserves some recognition towards gaining a Super Licence - if there is a worry about a lack of experience in single-seaters the testing requirement is still in place. The feeder series below that is a bit of a muddle too. What's with Super Formula placing below GP3, or F3 and F4 being considered equals?

 

It's only a small quibble that can be easily changed though. The experience requirements themselves are a good thing.

 

it is clearly an attack against the whole renault sport system.

 

Realistically, how much longer will Formula Renault survive? The smaller championships have been dying off for years, and if I remember right there was talk last year that Renault were considering to cease support for the World Series.

Edited by Fastcake, 05 January 2015 - 20:38.

[Anja]

Wait, what's a "Future FIA F2"? Are they going to reactivate it once again?

[LuckyStrike1]

Exception to this rule and dispensation subject to financial backing 

[Viryfan]

 

 

 

Realistically, how much longer will Formula Renault survive? The smaller championships have been dying off for years, and if I remember right there was talk last year that Renault were considering to cease support for the World Series.

 

Eurocup 2.0 have been there for over 40 years.

 

If you think that Eurocup is small make what you want.

 

Also WS concept has been there for 17 years.

 

Cold facts.

 

Renault has been a big supporter of driver ladder at a reaoinable cost.

Edited by Viryfan, 05 January 2015 - 21:12.

[Wes350]

Those weightings are interesting to say the least...

 

 No kidding

 

Rankng Indycar over Super Formula or Formula Renault is a bit head scratching to say the least...

[Clatter]

5.1.4      a) The first time he applies for a Super Licence, the driver must successfully complete a question session regarding the most important points of the International Sporting Code and of the F1 Sporting Regulations.

 

 

So what are the most important points of the code and regulations?

[johnmhinds]

Formula E doesn't seem to count? Interesting...

[anneomoly]

I thought drivers went F3 to FR3.5, yet FR3.5 gets less points than F3? Is that aimed at screwing over Renault, or the Red Bull Junior programme that loves FR3.5? Although having said that Mercedes have a reserve driver who probably can't race their car now with Wehrlein - 30 points in 2012 from 2nd in F3 then he'll never earn a point again because he's racing DTM which isn't on the magic list.

 

There's a lot of drivers that wouldn't have qualified to get on the grid when they did, and that doesn't just include Button/Verstappen/Raikkonen who ended up there young, but Schumacher who went into endurance as pre-F1 experience.

 

I'm not sure about the costs of the various formulas but are the points systems going to force drivers into a more expensive FIA formula and make it more prohibitively expensive? Or does it all cost so much anyway that it makes no difference?

[Brandz07]

Ricciardo wouldn't be on the grid either.

[rhukkas]

Good.  Sensible tightening of the requirements.  F1 should be for proven, experienced competitors, not novices with a fat wallet or a famous dad.

 

it doesn't change a thing, what are you on about? If anything it further prices people out of the market. if you can 'only' afford Formula Renault for a couple of years you're stuffed compared to the driver who can afford F3 straight away. It means drivers who haven't got the money can't get picked up and gambled on early. it means wealthy drivers who can stay the course have more chance of success

 

What this is really is teams/championships (GP2 mainly) complaining to the FIA that they will lose income if drivers only need a couple of seasons of F3 to race F1. That's what really has happened. If anyone thinks otherwise, then you're naive. In lower levels of racing results should be secondary to talent because results in motorsport are rarely an accurate measure of talent and dedication because money is such a big factor.

 

This is about rinsing MORE money out of the drivers. just watch prices rise as drivers are forced to avoid spending years in non-F1 point classes. Oh, a super talent but only have 39 points... another seasons of BIG spending for you. The whole system is being monopolised by the super-wealthy, and none of you seem to see it. They are pricing everyone out. This changes nothing, in fact it makes it worse. You can't even do a season of KF karts now for less than £250k and expect to get any results. The super-wealthy have killed what was something for the 'ordinary' person to get 'spotted'. The whole sport needs a revolution.

Edited by rhukkas, 06 January 2015 - 12:24.

[taran]

Eurocup 2.0 have been there for over 40 years.

 

If you think that Eurocup is small make what you want.

 

Also WS concept has been there for 17 years.

 

Cold facts.

 

Renault has been a big supporter of driver ladder at a reaoinable cost.

 

I disagree. Renault is one of the main reasons all the junior series are in trouble. It should have provided engines for the established series (F3, F2/3000 etc.) instead of establishing new single-engine/make series. Or used the money to create a ladder for talent (ELF style).

 

There should be a clear progression table for junior racers. If manufacturers can't stand competition and want their own single make series, those series shouldn't count towards a super license. That way, amateurs can race in a nice series with low costs as there is little incentive for a spending war...while the professionals race for career progression in the ladder series.

[McLaren]

I thought drivers went F3 to FR3.5, yet FR3.5 gets less points than F3? Is that aimed at screwing over Renault, or the Red Bull Junior programme that loves FR3.5? Although having said that Mercedes have a reserve driver who probably can't race their car now with Wehrlein - 30 points in 2012 from 2nd in F3 then he'll never earn a point again because he's racing DTM which isn't on the magic list.

 

There's a lot of drivers that wouldn't have qualified to get on the grid when they did, and that doesn't just include Button/Verstappen/Raikkonen who ended up there young, but Schumacher who went into endurance as pre-F1 experience.

 

I'm not sure about the costs of the various formulas but are the points systems going to force drivers into a more expensive FIA formula and make it more prohibitively expensive? Or does it all cost so much anyway that it makes no difference?

 

 

I would imagine he already has a Super Licence... or at least you think that would have been a condition in him getting the reserve/test driver role for Merc. If not then Merc would have to seriously think about getting another reserve driver that already has a Super Licence (in addition to Wehrlein possibly).

[alfa1]

 

1. There won't be another Verstappen..

 

By my reading of the regulations, if for whatever bizarre reason he does not start at least 5 races this year (injury, sponsor funding problems, drug test problems, nuclear weapons controversy), then he's out and cant come back until he proves his worth in lower series once more.

Even if he wins 4 of the F1 races in a row.

[noikeee]

I find the weightings a little on the harsh side. It's going to lock out a lot of average paydrivers that's for sure (that's a plus). But I can see a few problems:

 

- The fact only the last 3 years count, locks out drivers who've taken a break for financial reasons. Under this model, Robin Frijns wouldn't be fit for a new license right now!

 

- Drivers might become wary of moving up the ranks, from F3 or GP3 to GP2 for example, because it's going to be a lot easier to get the remaining points for your superlicense staying at that level, instead of having to adjust to a new difficult car where you might not end up in the top 5 in your first season.

 

- Alternatively, you might see drivers doing 2, or even more, championships at once just to try to get their remaining points, if they've got a F1 seat lined up.

 

- Why do DTM and Formula E not count? And what happens when new championships appear, or current ones lose/gain strength, will this points system be updated on a regular basis? The feeder series ladder is so volatile, it's already quite different from 5 years ago. Regulations need to keep up.

 

- The costs of buying a seat in certain top teams in some of these championships, who can almost guarantee success, will get even higher.

[noikeee]

Also Fernando Alonso.

 

1999 Spanish Euro Open MoviStar by Nissan isnt on the magic list, no points.

2000 International Formula 3000, isnt on the magic list, no points.

 

Actually he'd have just about enough points to qualify. Euro Open was kind of a pre-historic predecessor of Formula Renault 3.5 (albeit weaker back then), and F3000 was the predecessor of GP2.

[noikeee]

Another point: they're going after GP2 and GP3 almost as much as they're going after FR3.5 and Eurocup, aren't they? F2 and Euro F3 are worth more...

 

F2 could be a very good thing to the ladder if done right, to reduce costs. Their previous attempt was very interesting, but the cars were just too slow.

[alfa1]

Actually he'd have just about enough points to qualify. Euro Open was kind of a pre-historic predecessor of Formula Renault 3.5 (albeit weaker back then), and F3000 was the predecessor of GP2.

 

Fair enough. The hypothetical list of days gone by might probably have been that way.

So next year we'll kick out Susie Wolff instead. 

"the three-year period preceding his application" have not been much. Indeed she has no career points whatsoever. This year is her very last one to be seen standing around as a hopeful in pit lane unless she suddenly decides to make a last minute entry into a leading championship which she also has to win.

 

More generally speaking, this makes it murder for test drivers. No longer can they afford to just do friday test duties for teams, because of the "previous three years" time expiry limit. Pedro de la Rosa, as one prime example would not have been able to get a superlicence for the 2010 season, despite having driven 71 grand prix in his career at that time.

Nor would he have been allowed to start the 2012 season, despite having previously driven in 85 grand prix.

Edited by alfa1, 06 January 2015 - 13:29.

[V8 Fireworks]

Seems like a transparent political attempt against FR3.5 and GP2 

 

Placing F3 above FR3.5... how absurd. 

[goingthedistance]

Once you have a super licence how long does it last, I wonder?

[KWSN - DSM]

Finally making the Super License something not everyone can just get by more or less driving 300 KM in an old F1 car, to me seems a sensible way to approach this.

 

[MrAerodynamicist]

Once you have a super licence how long does it last, I wonder?

 

There's an annual fee so I think as long as the driver keeps paying that, I think it's indefinite unless the FIA have specific cause to withdraw it (as they did with Yuji Ide in '06).  Given this, I wonder if we'll see an increase in Friday guest drives this year; Susie Wolff wouldn't get one under the new system, but has one having taken part in a free practice.  Any team with an eye on somebody for '16 might find it reason to find a way to squeeze them in to a FP this year.

Edited by MrAerodynamicist, 06 January 2015 - 13:52.

[RA2]

Formula E doesn't seem to count? Interesting...

 

 

Formula E drivers need a super licence to compete   

[alfa1]

There's an annual fee so I think as long as the driver keeps paying that, I think it's indefinite .

 

Superlicence only runs for the one year, you have to reapply each year. Thats why:

- the old rule (crossed out) 5.1.2 allows for previous F1 experience to count

- the new rule often refers to applying "for the first time"

- the new rule 5.1.7 refers to previous F1 experience as counting

- FIA F1 Sporting Regulations, article 4.1, says "Applications for Super Licences must be made annually..."

- Article 5.4.2 of this annexe says "valid to the end of the year"

 

And it also means that in the usual way, the FIA have screwed up the rules yet again.

See:

5.1.5 The driver must have completed at least 80% of each of two full seasons of any of the Championships reported in Supplement 1.

That article 5.1.5 is new, but they forgot to add "for the first time", so it applies to ALL drivers seeking a superlicence. As it happens, Formula 1 is not listed in supplement 1, so it doesn't count. Many of the current drivers in F1 do not have that required experience. Many current F1 drivers do not qualify for a superlicence next year.

Edited by alfa1, 06 January 2015 - 14:21.

[Yhamm]

I really don't understand how can F3.5 be under F3, it really should be switched

other than that, I think it's fair. Indycar and WEC give less points than GP2 but they are not promotion championship.

and I'm ok for no FE, it's only full of old drivers anyway

[MrAerodynamicist]

Michael Schumacher wouldn't have been able to make his come back in 2010, lacking 15 race starts in the previous three years.

Edited by MrAerodynamicist, 06 January 2015 - 14:32.

[goingthedistance]

It's also interesting that someone who wins the GP2 championship in their first year - with no other listed championship experience - can neither graduate to F1 (because they must complete at least 80% of two separate seasons of a listed championship) nor stay in GP2 for another year (winners can't compete again in GP2).

So you could go from racing in Formula E or DTM one year to winning the championship in GP2 the next and still be ineligible to race in F1.

I see that Wolff and other Friday F1 pay drivers will be fine though under s 5.2, as long as they never want to actually race. It has surely taken away any hope she ever had of actually racing in F1.

[CaCO]

It would be interesting to ellaborate a chart with the best drivers and their scores based on those weightings in the last two seasons so we can see the most suitable candidates for a superlicence next year. Volunteers? 

[StudMuffin]

I'm certain if Gene Haas want's an american driver for his F1 team, and he doesn't qualify for a super license, I'm sure Bernie will find a way to bend the rules. He wouldn't let a cash cow like that out to pasture without milking it dry

[MrAerodynamicist]

And it also means that in the usual way, the FIA have screwed up the rules yet again.

See:

5.1.5 The driver must have completed at least 80% of each of two full seasons of any of the Championships reported in Supplement 1.

That article 5.1.5 is new, but they forgot to add "for the first time", so it applies to ALL drivers seeking a superlicence. As it happens, Formula 1 is not listed in supplement 1, so it doesn't count. Many of the current drivers in F1 do not have that required experience. Many current F1 drivers do not qualify for a superlicence next year.

 

Actually, it's not a problem. Article 5.1.5 doesn't have any time limit on it and unlike the points systen in 5.1.7 / supplement 2, it's not limited to the previous three years.  So for example, the fact that Hamilton did EuroF3 and GP2 in 2005 and 2006 still qualifies him. It's a bit of problem for drivers who competed in the equivalent but different series. 

 

It's also interesting that someone who wins the GP2 championship in their first year - with no other listed championship experience - can neither graduate to F1 (because they must complete at least 80% of two separate seasons of a listed championship) nor stay in GP2 for another year (winners can't compete again in GP2).

 

A complete season in FR 1.6 National followed by winning GP2 would count. There is nothing that says that the seasons that count towards 5.1.5 need to be the same seasons that make up the 5.1.7 points.

[alfa1]

Michael Schumacher wouldn't have been able to make his come back in 2010, lacking 15 race starts in the previous three years.

 

Next year as well. Even if he made some kind of miracle recovery during 2015 with divine intervention and returned to full fitness, he cant race in 2016.  He'd have to do some F3 or something for a few years to prove himself worthy.

 

Max Verstappen is also out next year, despite being ok this year. He does not comply with the 2016 rules:

5.1.3 The driver must be at least 18 years old at the start of the event of his first F1 race weekend.

 

Max Verstappen also fails this one for 2016 because when he first applied (this year) for a superlicence, he does not have a drivers licence. May also apply to other current drivers. Who else did not have a licence in years gone by when they applied for the first time?

5.1.2 The driver must be the holder of a valid driving licence when he applies for a Super Licence for the first time.

Edited by alfa1, 06 January 2015 - 15:14.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Question: IndyLights is listed in supplement 1 (80% of two seasons) but not supplement 2 (earning the 40pts). I don't follow IndyLights - is it really weaker and less value than the various FR2.0 series (which earn the winner 5pts)?

Edited by MrAerodynamicist, 06 January 2015 - 14:55.

[alfa1]

 It's a bit of problem for drivers who competed in the equivalent but different series. 

.

 

Thats what I was thinking of really because I mentioned Fernando Alonso in a previous post. He only has the "different" experience that is not in supplement 1.  Was going to check all the older drivers because that list of series is quite specific and NEW, so older series dont count. Somebody in another forum also mentioned Jenson Button. He's out as well next year for similar reasons.

[HP]

I am divided about this.

 

It keeps away non talented pay drivers.

 

It keeps highly talented, but penny-less people away.

 

Bottom line for me. Yet another rule that exalts mediocrity.

[rhukkas]

I am divided about this.

 

It keeps away non talented pay drivers.

 

It keeps highly talented, but penny-less people away.

 

Bottom line for me. Yet another rule that exalts mediocrity.

 

No it doesn't. it just incentivises the super-wealthy ones to make sure they price other drivers out of the market like what's happened with karting and single-seaters. When karting was the 'place' to get spotted budgets went through the roof. no longer could a dad and lad achieve something special. They got buried into the club scene if they were lucky.

 

Something is very very wrong at the core of motorsport and it will take a revolution to change things. 

[Richard T]

IT would be interesting to see today's drivers points had this been in place 15-20 years ago. Yes I Know some series wasn't around then, but lets say GP2=F3000, European F3 = F3 EuroSeries, WSbR = Formula Nissan.

Someone tweeted Button wouldn't be allowed to race in F1 at the time and certainly not Kimi

[Fastcake]

Eurocup 2.0 have been there for over 40 years.

 

If you think that Eurocup is small make what you want.

 

Also WS concept has been there for 17 years.

 

Cold facts.

 

Renault has been a big supporter of driver ladder at a reaoinable cost.

 

You haven't noticed national Formula Renault series collapsing over the past few years? Or the gradually shrinking grids across many different championships? Or the winding up of the similar programmes run by Ford and BMW? To return to the point I was making, if Formula Renault does not have much of a future, then it makes sense to concentrate on the FIA's new ladder.

 

it doesn't change a thing, what are you on about? If anything it further prices people out of the market. if you can 'only' afford Formula Renault for a couple of years you're stuffed compared to the driver who can afford F3 straight away. It means drivers who haven't got the money can't get picked up and gambled on early. it means wealthy drivers who can stay the course have more chance of success

 

What this is really is teams/championships (GP2 mainly) complaining to the FIA that they will lose income if drivers only need a couple of seasons of F3 to race F1. That's what really has happened. If anyone thinks otherwise, then you're naive. In lower levels of racing results should be secondary to talent because results in motorsport are rarely an accurate measure of talent and dedication because money is such a big factor.

 

This is about rinsing MORE money out of the drivers. just watch prices rise as drivers are forced to avoid spending years in non-F1 point classes. Oh, a super talent but only have 39 points... another seasons of BIG spending for you. The whole system is being monopolised by the super-wealthy, and none of you seem to see it. They are pricing everyone out. This changes nothing, in fact it makes it worse. You can't even do a season of KF karts now for less than £250k and expect to get any results. The super-wealthy have killed what was something for the 'ordinary' person to get 'spotted'. The whole sport needs a revolution.

 

I think you're being a little unfair. The FIA clearly do not care about GP2/3 losing income, or they would not be planning to launch a new F2 championship in competition with it. They have no love of Bernie's profit generating vehicle any more than you. And under Berger's watch, they came up with F4, which is cost capped at a considerably lower price than the preceding junior championships.

 

There may not be any major revolution happening to address the spiralling costs of participation, but there are at least a few people out there trying to do something about it.

[charly0418]

Love the idea, but as others have said World Series 3.5 and 2.0 should give way more points than that. Sad

[anneomoly]

So will FR3.5 still be viable? Or will its comparative cheapness outweigh the ten points/one place disadvantage it has over GP2 and 20 points/2 place disadvantage over F2? Or does it depend on how much money you'll need for F2?

 

And if F2 does come along, does GP2 or FR3.5 die first?

[fridge46]

Points using 2013 & 2014 final standings (all taken from wikipedia). Includes all drivers, even those graduated to F1 [hopefully it will be large enough to read; there will probably be some errors]:

 

 

Interesting thing with WEC: FIA allocation 1, 2, 3 etc, even if there are shared positions above. Take 2013, 3 drivers finished top of the table with the same points - all these are ranked =1. After these, there are 3 drivers equal on points - all these are ranked =2. IMO, these should be ranked =4 (having said that, they are sharing drives.......)

[MrAerodynamicist]

Points using 2013 & 2014 final standings (all taken from wikipedia). Includes all drivers, even those graduated to F1 [hopefully it will be large enough to read; there will probably be some errors]:

The first error is that it's point from the previous three years!

I've only really checked Indycar, WEC, GP2, GP3, and I've come up with following drivers how'd qualify for 2015 based on 2012-14:
Andre Lotterer, Benoît Tréluyer, Marcel Fassler, Scott Dixon, Tom Kristensen, Will Power, Allan McNish, Hélio Castroneves, Loic Duval, Stoffel Vandoorne, Anthony Davidson, Sebastien Buemi, Fabio Leimer, Jolyon Palmer, Sa Bird, Felipe Nasr, Alexander Wurz, Davide Valsecchi, Mitch Evans, Ryan Hunter-Reay, James Calado, Luiz Razia

Edited by MrAerodynamicist, 06 January 2015 - 17:22.