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The Heterodox GT-R LM Nismo Endurance Racer


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#151 Greg Locock

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 07:46

what about next year tho? Their team will know each other and the hardware, they'll have new systems to integrate which will hopefully improve performance, perhaps this year was just baby steps.



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#152 brakedisc

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 09:20

Looks like they are recruiting new people. Perhaps enough is enough.



#153 desmo

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 13:28

I do hope they return to LM next year with a developed car, it would be interesting to see how far they've managed to take the concept.  They now operate in an environment of massively lowered expectations, which is a very nice place to be sometimes.



#154 brakedisc

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 17:46

Plug pulled for this year as far as the racing goes.



#155 desmo

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 00:16

http://www.sportscar...ws15Q_1603.html

 

Project is on for 2016.  KERS still not "running" :shouldbeafacepalmsmiley:



#156 imaginesix

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 12:02

http://www.sportscar...ws15Q_1603.html
 
Project is on for 2016.  KERS still not "running" :shouldbeafacepalmsmiley:

The problem now with this project now is that there's so much riding on it, that if the plain and simple truth were that the system can never be designed to operate as intended, nobody could just step up and say so. The whole project is being led by the technology systems, rather than the other way around.

#157 desmo

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 15:17

No, I think if NISMO concluded the project didn't have development potential in light of last year's LM fiasco it'd have been quietly shelved.  Lacking AWD/KERS, it probably has no hope of being competitive.



#158 Greg Locock

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 23:17

Why are AWD or KERS insuperable challenges for Nissan?



#159 imaginesix

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 00:26

Not saying they are, but the packaging is very convoluted, and the car's success relies on very low drag while having many tightly packaged heat sources. Might be mission impossible.



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#160 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 01:17

Do we even know the source of their ERS troubles? Most likely flywheels? Motors are plentiful off the shelf and the electronics side of things should be relatively simple to work out. Going with flywheels for energy storage is the oddball, has anyone other than Audi used them successfully? 



#161 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 04:21

http://www.sportscar...ws15Q_1603.html

 

Project is on for 2016.  KERS still not "running" :shouldbeafacepalmsmiley:

6 months plus after it was supposed to be ready they still have a half complete mechanical package.

Even with everything working at it should i doubt that it will ever be fast enough [though less slow!] And after all that will it be reliable? Probably not.



#162 saudoso

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 16:01

Binned.

#163 BRG

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 17:57

And it was so promising too.....  ;)



#164 saudoso

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 18:04

What's next? Five wheels? Caterpillars?

#165 desmo

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 21:58

You knew when they still *a year later* couldn't apparently sort the regen aspect of the hybrid or the RWD even enough to track test those elements properly that they didn't posses the expertise or resources to fairly test the concept.

#166 Magoo

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 23:48

Ended pretty ugly, too. The program just moved into the former Forsythe Racing facility on Georgetown Rd. last summer. Yesterday morning, some of employees were not allowed into the building, while others were notified of their canning via email. Christmas week, how lovely. 

 

 

 

http://www.roadandtr...es-over-e-mail/

 

 

 



#167 Kelpiecross

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 06:19

I suspect  that the general "front wheel drive racing car" idea is quite practical  in small cars - like one litre or so.         



#168 imaginesix

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 06:56

So do we call this experiment failed, or is it incomplete since they never got the intended drivetrain in place to even be able to test it?



#169 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 21:06

Seems more like failed execution. That's not to say that the concept would win races in someone else's hands but we certainly never saw its actual potential.

 

The last two times Nissan/NISMO have tried to run a prototype racing program they've made a total mess out of it. What's the deal? Are they naive about the cost/benefit payoff of this kind of stuff and get cold feet after a year or so?



#170 Canuck

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 02:02

Ended pretty ugly, too. The program just moved into the former Forsythe Racing facility on Georgetown Rd. last summer. Yesterday morning, some of employees were not allowed into the building, while others were notified of their canning via email. Christmas week, how lovely.


http://www.roadandtr...es-over-e-mail/

It's not the corporation's fault though. It's for the good of the shareholders don't you know.

#171 Magoo

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 16:25

It's not the corporation's fault though. It's for the good of the shareholders don't you know.

 

 

Middle managers usually aren't pure evil. This looks like loud screaming suddenly commenced in the executive suites and people starting pushing the red buttons. 

 

From the start, the program was stricken with confusion and delays. Maybe this is just one more final symptom. 



#172 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 23:13

Ended pretty ugly, too. The program just moved into the former Forsythe Racing facility on Georgetown Rd. last summer. Yesterday morning, some of employees were not allowed into the building, while others were notified of their canning via email. Christmas week, how lovely. 

 

 

 

http://www.roadandtr...es-over-e-mail/

While very poor I am sure every employee had a fair idea it was coming. The team and the car was a LEMON.  from day 1.



#173 Canuck

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 17:23

Middle managers usually aren't pure evil. This looks like loud screaming suddenly commenced in the executive suites and people starting pushing the red buttons.

From the start, the program was stricken with confusion and delays. Maybe this is just one more final symptom.

No single raindrop believes it's responsible for the flood. While I would agree on the general lack of evil, someone somewhere in that org, made this choice. Now, maybe it was like the last shutdown I was involved with where everyone was notified several weeks in advance - still a shock but not left standing on the sidewalk trying to process what happened 5 minutes ago and lots of time to try and make a soft landing elsewhere - inside or outside the org.

Or not. CFOs make the decision about numbers, not people. Easier to ignore the human impact of what you're doing by focusing on numbers and pointing to shareholders or the management levels above you as the driver.

#174 Magoo

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 00:40

No single raindrop believes it's responsible for the flood. While I would agree on the general lack of evil, someone somewhere in that org, made this choice. Now, maybe it was like the last shutdown I was involved with where everyone was notified several weeks in advance - still a shock but not left standing on the sidewalk trying to process what happened 5 minutes ago and lots of time to try and make a soft landing elsewhere - inside or outside the org.

Or not. CFOs make the decision about numbers, not people. Easier to ignore the human impact of what you're doing by focusing on numbers and pointing to shareholders or the management levels above you as the driver.

 

Can't argue with any of that. 



#175 Greg Locock

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 00:42

Two managers I know had nervous breakdowns (or whatever it is called these days) shortly after a headcount reduction, and in one case I am 99% sure it was the stress of choosing who to fire, and firing them. i would think that in a racing team where you live in each other's pockets it would be worse.



#176 Magoo

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 12:55

Headcount reductions are a poison, a disease. 

 

For the unfamiliar, headcount terminations really have only one purpose: to clean up the financial statements in a superficial way to make the company appear more attractive to A) Wall Street analysts and institutional investors or B) potential buyout and merger partners. 

 

There is no true financial benefit and in the end, the cost is actually greater because the work must still get done -- but now it will be done by temp workers and contractors, at greater cost and lower efficiency. The company will merely look better on the balance sheets for the next quarter or two. 

 

This also happens to be the exact opposite of what virtually all companies claim they do. They say they "invest in their people;" they say they "invest in the future." How many times do you hear that? In truth, the "investment" is only in the stock options and incentive plans of the executive board members. 


Edited by Magoo, 28 December 2015 - 12:57.


#177 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 14:16

Corporations are people, but not your friends.

#178 Fat Boy

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 03:50

Ended pretty ugly, too. The program just moved into the former Forsythe Racing facility on Georgetown Rd. last summer. Yesterday morning, some of employees were not allowed into the building, while others were notified of their canning via email. Christmas week, how lovely. 

 

 

 

http://www.roadandtr...es-over-e-mail/

 

It's Nissan. Remember last time? SSDD.



#179 Fat Boy

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 03:59

Two managers I know had nervous breakdowns (or whatever it is called these days) shortly after a headcount reduction, and in one case I am 99% sure it was the stress of choosing who to fire, and firing them. i would think that in a racing team where you live in each other's pockets it would be worse.

 

It's much easier if you're a socio/psychopath.

 

My guess is that it's actually easier in racing for a couple reasons. First, when a team goes under, everyone gets the can. The team manager might stay on an extra month or so to sell off the crap left behind, but he's looking for a job just like everyone else. Second, We expect it. Even from well supported teams, it happens all the freakin' time. I could have the teams I'm working with right now call me and tell me it's over and I wouldn't bat an eye. It's just how it is. I don't like it, but I accept it.

 

You get on the phone, call your friends and make connections. During this off-season I've helped 4-5 guys I know get hooked up. You might fight like hell on the track, but off of it, the clowns of the circus pretty much stick together.



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#180 Fat Boy

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 04:01

Headcount reductions are a poison, a disease. 

 

I would call them a symptom of the disease, but I see where you're going with the analogy and don't disagree.



#181 DogEarred

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 08:43

In situations like these which happen all too often in motor sport, especially in F1, the question seldom asked is 'who is responsible for this situation & why aren't they 'let go'?



#182 Fat Boy

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 20:00

In situations like these which happen all too often in motor sport, especially in F1, the question seldom asked is 'who is responsible for this situation & why aren't they 'let go'?

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. It seems like there are people 'under the bus' all the time. I've never been on the inside, but it seems like there is a revolving door of names with some teams.

 

With others, the money gets spent and the team is shutting down. Placing blame is kind of a moot point.



#183 BRG

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 17:43

If I was Carlos Ghosn, I would certainly want to know who it was that had sold me such a massive pup.  And can them.



#184 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 21:58

If it was easy enough for you to spot the failures, maybe we should sack Ghosn. 



#185 Fat Boy

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 01:29

Information is coming out about this deal from those involved. Soooooo glad they didn't want me.



#186 Greg Locock

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 02:55

I see we have an attack of the Monday morning quarterbacks.

 

Some innovative ideas need money pumped into them to find out if they'll work or not. Inevitably that means some will fail after having money spent on them. If a company could reliably spend shareholder's cash only on successful investigations then that would be terrific, but that's unicorn talk.

 

To be honest I went through 3 stages on this project (1) i is silly but then (2) it does partly solve the open wheeler interlocking wheel problem, and looks pretty neat followed by (3) why does that make it a good architecture for LM ? I haven't seen a great answer for (3) tho I'm not sayng there isn't one, but I think as a solution for interlocking and a grasped attempt at a significant change in architecture it is, or was, a nice try. 



#187 saudoso

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:12

Are you mixing the front wheel drive with the delta wing? How's that the FWD fixes the open wheeler wheel interlock problem?

 

And that's not monday morning quarterback, there's a lot of I told you so going on here. I guess some people are not taking Bowlby assuming to be the next coming of Colin Chapman very well.


Edited by saudoso, 13 January 2016 - 15:18.


#188 Fat Boy

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 17:49

I see we have an attack of the Monday morning quarterbacks.

 

 

No, no, a 'Monday morning QB' is some I-told-you-so guy who never had anything to do with the team. Last week/weekend I had the opportunity to spend a good chunk of time with guys who were on the team and find out a little about the inner workings. That's a completely different kettle of fish. It might be hearsay, but it's first-hand hearsay.

 

Look through this thread. I've been nothing but positive. I still think it was a great attempt an trying to tackle a problem with a 'clean-sheet' approach. In the end, we'll never know if the logic was correct or not because the car never really turned a wheel in anything close to a full spec. All they really did was limp around the track and make laps. Even at that, it was able to register some good end-of-straight numbers at Lemans, so maybe it wasn't a completely hopeless cause.



#189 BRG

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 20:30

Never mind, think of all the good publicity the Nissan PR guys milked out of this lemon.  Mission accomplished, boys!



#190 Greg Locock

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 20:34

Sorry Fatboy, I had struck out the s in quarterbacks, hence s, i wasn't including you



#191 Fat Boy

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 21:41

Sorry Fatboy, I had struck out the s in quarterbacks, hence s, i wasn't including you

 

I promise I didn't take offense.



#192 Canuck

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 01:32

Sorry Fatboy, I had struck out the s in quarterbacks, hence s, i wasn't including you

What the hell?  Who are you and what have you done with our ascerbic and sharp-tongued Greg?



#193 Greg Locock

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 02:33

Oh him. We stuffed him in a Snap On toolbox and left him to rust at the side of the road. Eventually some roving scrap metal merchant will get a nasty shock.

 

Seriously, I was being too clever for my own good with the struck out s, and without that hard to see typographical clue it certainly read as though I was calling FB and  Ross Monday morning quarterbacks, which was not my intent in the least.  Sorry guys.



#194 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 14:59

Mate, I got half-assed opinions 7 days a week. 



#195 Fat Boy

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 17:01

Mate, I got half-assed opinions 7 days a week. 

 

Mine are usually 1/4-assed...but I've got plenty of them.



#196 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 23:01

Never mind, think of all the good publicity the Nissan PR guys milked out of this lemon.  Mission accomplished, boys!

To me it was a PR disaster. Big announcements and it never worked.

It sure does not want to sell me a Nissan!



#197 desmo

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 02:04

Hats off to Nissan for trying; thumbs down for not trying very hard.