94 replies to this topic

[JanAlsemgeest]

Jackie Oliver
Dear members, try to find out the history of Jackie Olivers first light blue painted 1964-65 race Mustang. He raced with this one only in the 1966 racing season (with 5 lug wheels and high cut-out wheel arch fender lips).
For an image of this car check:
http://shop.simonlew...98x191[ekm].jpg or:

http://www.ponysite....intmakeover.jpg

He entered the car under the following car numbers: # 91 (July 1966), #205 (August 1966) and # 41 (October 1966). Probably the latest race was 30th October 1966 at the BARC International Motorshow at Brand Hatch. The car was entered (prepared?) by D&R Fabrications or DR Racing? (DR Racing Division?).

For the 1967 season he entered the race with a white Mustang (updated: with BLUE and later RED stripes) with a GT rear valance (2 exhaust pipes coming through the rear), the special wheels with Knock-Off nuts and lower wheel arch fender lips.

Now the following questions:
Does someone know what was the (original?) colour this (light blue) Mustang when it arrived at D&R Fabrications (DR Racing?) before it was painted light blue?
Can someone give me information regarding the preparation DR Racing did made on that car (e.g. body modifications, engine, was there already the rear axle with disk-brakes?).
What is happened with this car after the 1966 season?


Besides these Jackie Oliver related questions I also have a lot of questions regarding the 1965 Mustang of Alan Brown who was driven (raced!) in the UK by Sir Jack Brabham in 1965 and 1966 (and Ronnie Lyon in 1966 and 1967). As I am an old mechanic of one of the Dutch racers who race this car in the 70ties in the Netherlands I did already gathered “a lot” (!) of images and details about this car (with the valuable help of Wolfgang / www.ponysite.de ). Still there are (too) many questions….. Please help me (us).



Who can remember something about the preparation and/or maintenance of this Bright RED (in ‘65) or (later) Deep Red?Brown? (Gold hood edge stripes) Alan Brown race Mustang?
Where was it done? Who knows details?
Some say it was "partially done" at Alan Mann Racing. That is not confirmed yet.
This Alan Brown car definitly has all the special features as on the origin "DPK" cars. Check: http://touringcarrac...on Park GC.html

I have a theory for that which I try to find evident for.
In 1966 this Alan Brown Mustang was raced by Jack Brabham with a Tecelamit Jackson (LOTUS) Fuel injection system (which I still owned :-) on top of the small block Ford 289 engine.
Are there images of the Alan Brown (Jack Braham) or Ronnie Lyon Mustang not published on the internet yet (or images of the engine compartment)?
Can anyone supply me with new details, anecdotes or images?
If wanted (not to publish images or info) then it is possible to contact me directly (PB? or e-mail?)
Please note that this Jack Brabham car as it is an other car than Oliver’s Mustang (maybe it’s better to make another topic for the 2nd part).

Please reply! Thanks.
Jan Alsemgeest, The Netherlands

Edited by JanAlsemgeest, 05 November 2015 - 07:00.

[Dave French]

Hi Jan, I was told by Peter Gee who is no longer with us that the D&R Fabrications Mustang was rebodied as it didn't meet UK racing regs. Peter worked at there Wash Rd. Brentwood  Essex premises. I believe it was owned by Kenny Baker at that time. Peter went on to race an Anglia for many years. Sorry i know no more but maybe this may nudge a few memories.

   

[JanAlsemgeest]

Hi Jan, I was told by Peter Gee who is no longer with us that the D&R Fabrications Mustang was rebodied as it didn't meet UK racing regs. Peter worked at there Wash Rd. Brentwood  Essex premises. I believe it was owned by Kenny Baker at that time. Peter went on to race an Anglia for many years. Sorry i know no more but maybe this may nudge a few memories.

 

Thanks Dave. You already helped me a little. Mention that there where indeed UK Racing Regs for the body (that the high rear wheel arches where not allowed?). I cannot tell everything but this could explain one of my thougths about this Mustang.

Lets see who-else will reply (maybe someone do have images in a photobook  ). Thanks again.

[pete53]

"Jackie Oliver
Dear members, try to find out the history of Jackie Olivers first light blue painted 1964-65 race Mustang. He raced with this one only in the 1966 racing season (with 5 lug wheels and high cut-out wheel arch fender lips).
He entered the car under the following car numbers: # 91 (July 1966), #205 (August 1966) and # 41 (October 1966). Probably the latest race was 30^th October 1966 at the BARC International Motorshow at Brand Hatch. The car was entered (prepared?) by DR Racing (DR Racing Division?)."

 

I had always assumed that the 1967 Oliver Mustang was the same car he used in 1966. I believe it was white with red stripes. The car was also driven by other drivers in 1967 in club meetings.

 

The car appeared on a few more occasions than you mention in 1966, the last appearance being at the Brands Boxing Day meeting.

[JanAlsemgeest]

"Jackie Olivers first light blue painted 1964-65 race Mustang":

 

I had always assumed that the 1967 Oliver Mustang was the same car he used in 1966.

 

Dear Pete. Thanks for the reply.
I thougt that myself as well untill I noticed some differences which are illogical or which I could not explained. The remark of Dave that it was rebodied is very plausible and will fit my idea of these 2 race Mustangs. The specific front valance with the unique brake cooling ducts (or grill?) is identical and perhaps bolted over on the new car (it's only a few bolts and nuts...).

Although it is a mistery for us what happened to the (body of the) first car it is more important for me (I would like to know) from who D&R Fabrications bougth this first Mustang and how it looks like when it arrived there. 

Again, If you have more info (or an image in a old photobook   ), please let us know.

Best regards, Jan

[raceannouncer2003]

So you know Frank de Jong and his site?

 

Vince H.

[tjmann]

Alan Mann Racing did the cars for Roy Pierpoint & Gawaine Baillie but not those ones....

[JanAlsemgeest]

I Know the site Vince and did visit it before. Maybe it is time to meet Frank in person and discuus these subject. Thanks anyway!

 

Alan Mann Racing did the cars for Roy Pierpoint & Gawaine Baillie but not those ones....

 

Dear Tjmann (Tom?).

I did not say the Jackie Oliver Mustang was modified or done by Allen Mann Racing but Mr Alan Man and his team did more than the 2 Mustangs of Roy Pierpoint and Gawaine Baillie in 1965.

Mutltiple sourches mention that it has at least 3 priveteers cars in 1965 (some other say 4 in total?).
I'm figuring out which drivers these were exactly. Some times the Jack Brabham Mustang is mentioned as well as one Alan Mann car.
It is confusing as Pierpoint started as priveteer and after some races he did drive as an official Alan Mann race car driver.

 

Im trying to find out the history of all 7 Mustangs that where modified by Alan Mann in 1964 one way or another (1 red prototype which was later used as his personal transport in 1964-65 and sold before 1966, the two Liege cars and the four (so called) TDF cars). I got a lot information already and more and more it will be clear (with the valuable help of Wolfgang from Ponysite.de).

I realy hope people reading this can help me.

A short story or dusty photograph of a 1965er Mustang race car could be very valuable information for me (us!).

Thanks.

P.s. I will fill in a contact form on the Alan Mann Racing website hoping we could exchange information.

Edited by JanAlsemgeest, 04 March 2015 - 21:32.

[pete53]

Mike Salmon raced a Mustang in 1965 that was apparently an  Alan Mann car. There were 4 GP2 Mustangs racing in BTCC races in GB in 1965 - Pierpoint, Salmon, Baillie and Brabham.

Edited by pete53, 04 March 2015 - 21:40.

[JanAlsemgeest]

Mike Salmon raced a Mustang in 1965 that was apparently an  Alan Mann car. There were 4 GP2 Mustangs racing in BTCC races in GB in 1965 - Pierpoint, Salmon, Baillie and Brabham.

 

Indeed Pete, The Mike Salmon Dark blue Mustang was the car with (mostly used) licence plate DPK-5B (I discovered Mr. Mann did change/switch sometimes licence plates which make identification difficult and very complicated).

This car (raced by Rob Slotemaker as well) still exsist and is restored in France on this moment. Back to it orign Red Alan Mann colours (I did have already seen a lot of images). I sent them some details to make it as autentic as possible. Look forward to the final layout.........
The car will be for sale next months (for 6 figures Euro's). The contact with the owner/representative is just for details of the car only (not for buying ;-)

 

Thanks and keep on posting details.

 

[tjmann]

We're going to check back in our archives - we have a lot of large boxes full of shipping invoices, records, correspondence - Dad (aka Alan Mann) never threw anything away. I spoke to Henry and he's pretty sure that the Brabham car was nothing to do with us as they were the main competition for the championship.

 

To this point we (with my Alan Mann Racing hat on) haven't been asked for any historic details of DPK-5B but I'd certainly be interested to see the car / photos etc.

[JanAlsemgeest]

We're going to check back in our archives - we have a lot of large boxes full of shipping invoices, records, correspondence - Dad (aka Alan Mann) never threw anything away. I spoke to Henry and he's pretty sure that the Brabham car was nothing to do with us as they were the main competition for the championship.

 

To this point we (with my Alan Mann Racing hat on) haven't been asked for any historic details of DPK-5B but I'd certainly be interested to see the car / photos etc.

 

That is good news! We look forward to what will come out of these boxes! We think it will answer much questions.

I will sign-up as volunteer to help you with this task....  

Please keep us informed on the progress.... Thanks

 

I know Mr Claude Dubois in Belgium did converted the body work of a Shelby GT350 to a hardtop in 1965.
Does anybody know if the opposite was done in the UK with a Mustang hartop race car converted to a Mustang Fastback (weld a new roof section on the body?)?
Im just wandering if this ever happened is sixties (1965 66 67 years?).

Edited by JanAlsemgeest, 08 March 2015 - 17:02.

[pete53]

That is good news! We look forward to what will come out of these boxes! We think it will answer much questions.

I will sign-up as volunteer to help you with this task....  

Please keep us informed on the progress.... Thanks

 

I know Mr Lubois in Belgium did converted the body work of a Shelby GT350 to a hardtop in 1965.
Does anybody know if the opposite was done in the UK with a Mustang hartop race car converted to a Mustang Fastback (weld a new roof section on the body?)?
Im just wandering if this ever happened is sixties (1965 66 67 years?).

Certainly DR Fabrications entered a fastback Mustang in club racing events in the UK in 1965. I remember Chris Craft driving the car and possibly Jack Oliver. However. I don't know any more about the car - either its derivation or what happened to it after 1965. However, I am pretty sure it was the only example of a fastback Mustang racing in the UK in that period.

[Dipster]

Certainly DR Fabrications entered a fastback Mustang in club racing events in the UK in 1965. I remember Chris Craft driving the car and possibly Jack Oliver. However. I don't know any more about the car - either its derivation or what happened to it after 1965. However, I am pretty sure it was the only example of a fastback Mustang racing in the UK in that period.

I wonder if that is the reddish orange car I remember seeing (on steel wheels) at Brands on, I think, a Wednesday test day ( I should have been at school but often got away on Wednesdays....)?  It was being attended to by DF Fabrications but I cannot recall who was driving. It was a long time ago!

[pete53]

I wonder if that is the reddish orange car I remember seeing (on steel wheels) at Brands on, I think, a Wednesday test day ( I should have been at school but often got away on Wednesdays....)?  It was being attended to by DF Fabrications but I cannot recall who was driving. It was a long time ago!

You are right about the colour. I do have a photo I took of the car at Brands in September 1965 but unfortunately it is black & white. However, the programme for the July BARC meeting at Crystal Palace lists it as "red".

[JanAlsemgeest]

You are right about the colour. I do have a photo I took of the car at Brands in September 1965 but unfortunately it is black & white. However, the programme for the July BARC meeting at Crystal Palace lists it as "red".

Thanks Pete! Is that the photo with car # 55? (with a special hoodscoop?) and/or a license number starting with HPU (or HFU)?
That really is a "strong looking" race Mustang.
Nice to hear it's Red AND that is is a D&R Fabrications Mustang. Usefull details!
Please keep posting information. This help me a lot. B.r. Jan.

Edited by JanAlsemgeest, 08 March 2015 - 17:03.

[bradbury west]

Just to add to the discussions;
I always understood that the 4/6 DPK reg cars were on a temporary import document to cover the TDF etc in 1964 but had to be destroyed, ie cut in half by the end of 1966. ISTR there was a note about it in Autosport in period. Hence any bits on them may have been transferred to new shells. Perhaps something similar applied to the Falcon Sprints, too, with their ZE 1048 etc series reg nos.
BTW, the Mustang and Galaxy entered by Alan Brown for Brabham was never owned by him, just entered by him.
Kenny Baker also raced a very special E Type, tested by Autosport. Most of the DR Fab cars were a deep red, like Jackie Oliver's Elan and transporter ISTR
Have you checked for colour shots of the Mustang on the front covers of Autosport?. Simon Taylor introduced colour front covers around that time. I might check them out.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 11 March 2015 - 21:40.

[pete53]

Thanks Pete! Is that the photo with car # 55? (with a special hoodscoop?) and/or a license number starting with HPU (or HFU)?
That really strong looking race Mustang.
Nice to hear it's Red AND that is is a D&R Fabrications Mustang. Usefull details!
Please keep posting information. This help me a lot. B.r. Jan.

Yes it has no.55 - unfortunately my picture shows the profile of the car and therefore license plates can't be seen.

[JanAlsemgeest]

Dear Roger.
I know of the existence of the documents to scrap old race cars (or find another use for them). I did check those and could not find that these wher applicable for the hardtop Mustangs (it apply to Galaxis, Falcons, etc.). On the other hand I know that there was some kind of agreement between Ford and Alan Mann that if he sold them, an amount of that money should be returned to Ford. In that case Alan Mann was responsible for the cars.

Your 2nd note is interesting as well. If Alan Brown (or other?) did not own the Mustang, who could it be on that moment?
Who can answer this?
Thanks for the input!

@Pete: I would like to see this photo if possible. Is there a link where to find it or can you contact me one way or another
Thanks as well.
A happy Jan :-)

Edited by JanAlsemgeest, 08 March 2015 - 17:04.

[ERIKZ]

The DR Fab Fastback Mustang has the plate: HPU5258 and ran under #121 at Crystal Palace.  The Jackie Oliver Mustang in light blue also ran under the #92 at event? and also #151 at event? for 1966?  John Ewer ran a Mustang the looks very similar to the Jackie Oliver Mustang (same flares, same wheels, similar front valance)....something you might want to check in to.  For 1967, the Oliver Mustang was white with two red stripes, not blue.

 

Erik

[JanAlsemgeest]

Thanks Eric. You are right. The John Ewer Mustang is the (white red striped ) Jackie Oliver Mustang. That I already checked. It was not the light blue Mustang. I got some photos of the John Ewer Mustang and he was Red as well (red and black).
Thanks to confirm the stripes colour!

Edited by JanAlsemgeest, 08 March 2015 - 17:05.

[pete53]

Dear Roger.
I know of the existence of the documents to scrap old race cars (or find another use for them). I did check those and could not find that these wher applicable for the hartop Mustangs (it apply to Galaxis, Falcons, etc.). On the other hand I know that there was some kind of agreement between Ford and Alan Mann that if he sold them, an ammont of that money should be returned to Ford. In that case Alan Mann was responsible for the cars.

Your 2nd note is interesting as well. If Alan Brown (or other?) did not own the Mustang, who could it be on that moment?
Who can answer this?
Thanks for the input!

@Pete: I would like to see this photo if possible. Is there a link where to find it or can you contact me one way or another
Thanks as well.
A happy Jan :-)

Jan, the picture I have is fairly poor quality, however, check this site - http://www.racebears.../galleries/cars

Select Galleries, Cars, Mustang and you will get a very good picture of the car. This would have been taken later in the year of 1965 as it is sporting wide wheels - something it didn't have earlier.

[sterling49]

I have a photo from Brands of DPK 6B , at rest in the paddock, I for the life of me cannot remember whose this was, but clearly remember the DPK series of cars and Jackie Oliver being super competitive whenever he raced. I would post the photo but not sure how to do this now..........

Edited by sterling49, 07 March 2015 - 18:45.

[PonysiteEd]

Interesting news and pics.

BTW just to the add the status of knowledge of the AM Mustangs, that I traced with ex-Alan Mann mechanics John Grant, Brian Lewis and a TDF enthuisast Jeffrey Harris and many more contributors like Ronny Lion, Mike Salmon etc.

http://www.ponysite.de/DPK4B.htm

http://www.ponysite....feldt_dpk5b.htm

http://www.ponysite....arper_dpk6b.htm

http://www.ponysite....octer_dpk7b.htm

DPG3B and DPJ8B were the Liege cars, the other one the early February 64 prototype (meanwhile also pictured on the AMR teams website.

 

Sterling, if you want the pic to be posted, send it to me via ponysite.de or to Jan (or Tom and Henry)

Edited by PonysiteEd, 08 March 2015 - 18:25.

[PonysiteEd]

Here is another shot of Ken Bakers Fastback, which I could buy recently

http://www.ponysite....er_ponysite.jpg

(This pic is a snapshot of it, sorry for the poor quality)

Edited by PonysiteEd, 07 March 2015 - 20:43.

[275 GTB-4]

A belated comment from Mike Matune who is having computer problems:

This response to your note is somewhat tardy as we have been having a computer problem which has really slowed the work output.

The Ickx and Brabham Mustangs were later than the period I studied for the story on the early competition Mustangs, which ended in early 1965 with Beechey’s victory in the Australian Touring Car Championship.

That said I checked my library and came up with some information. On Page 257 of Alan Mann’s Autobiography “A Life of Chance”, Ickx is listed as winning a round of the ETCC at Zolder for Alan Mann Racing on June 26, 1965 and on winning again on June 13, 1965 at Nurburgring co-driving with Sir Gwaine Baillie. On page 127, it mentioned that the Mustang Brabham drove for Alan Brown was an ex-Alan Mann rally car. On page 130 there is a group shot of Ford race cars that includes Ickx and a Mustang.

In the book “Ford in Touring Car Racing” there is a picture of Ickx and Mann on the bottom of page 65. Brabham’s Mustang involvement is mentioned on page 62. The same group Ford racers shot is on the bottom of page 34 with Ickx and the Mustang.

Two good sources on Touring Car Racing and Mustangs are Frank De Jong at TouringCarRacing.net and Wolfgang Kohrn at www.ponysite.de. Both sites have contact information.

Hope this helps, let me know if you need anything else. Take care, Mike

[JanAlsemgeest]

Thanks Mike! Both books I already read, putt dozens of Post-It's on the pages with such details and all applicable photos studied carefully.
The Brabham car is mentioned indeed by Alan Mann. Still it is not clear for me which of the seven AM cars it was. I'm sure we can solve it. Maybe there is an number 8 Alan Mann prepared Mustang....
I know (if I'm correct) that once 3 Mustangs sent to France while they only used 2 cars to ralley. I also heard that the Mustang that Alan Brown "imported" came out of France (don't know if it was a French harbour only or that it was really standing there somewhere already). I have a theory but maybe this information will ring some bells.....
If someone have details, please join this discussion.

[Alan Cox]

Here is a Tim Blackburn photo of Oliver at the Motor Show 200 meeting 22 October 1967

Photo copyright Tim Blackburn

[Alan Cox]

And here is a fine Eddie Whitham photograph of Jack Brabham with Alan Brown's car, Oulton Park 18 September 1965, where he won.

Photo copyright Eddie Whitham

[JanAlsemgeest]

Thanks Alan. I did hope you would reply and post photo's. You made my day.
The first photo is indeed from the white-red striped car. The light-blue car has the most interest for me. I got some images (also colour) but I'm not allowed to post them.
The 2nd photo of the Brabham car was really a sensation for me when I first saw it. Thanks for posting.
One question: could you check on the original slide or photo what is lettering on the rear fender? These are small letters and I cannot read it.
B.r. Jan

Edited by JanAlsemgeest, 08 March 2015 - 08:34.

[bradbury west]

Have you seen the track test of the Mann Mustang done by Paddy McNally in Autosport 10.12.65? It is quite comprehensive, as they always were.

Roger Lund

 

edit. It was just by chance I saw it as I was looking for something else.

Edited by bradbury west, 08 March 2015 - 12:55.

[tjmann]

I'd love to see that track test if you could post it / send me a scanned copy?

[bradbury west]

Tony, there is also a track test a couple of weeks later of John Whitmore's Lotus Cortina prepped by your father.

Happy to scan an e mail to you.

Please pm me with your e mail and I will oblige

BTW I loved the Prefect when it was first  out at the Revival a couple of years back, esp a demon move to take 2 cars on the entry to the first part of Lavant , having  dummied them up for a lap or two earlier.

Roger Lund

[PonysiteEd]

DPK6B got covered in at least 6 mags, as it was given to several motorsport journalists. Below is the July 65 Motor Racing. Others are the Auto Revue Switzerland, Sport Auto Nov. 64, swedish Fart and Racing mag, and Bernard Cahier did several photoshoots in the french movie studios with Peter Ustinov and Trintignant amongst others for Sports Car Graphic and Autocar Dec. 64.

Edited by PonysiteEd, 08 March 2015 - 18:46.

[PonysiteEd]

Jacky Ickx first co-drove Sir Gawaine Baillies car, then got a APB325B (B for 1964 first registering) licenced Mustang from the Mann team for his own use, racing it amongst others to victories (I think) at Zolder (March 21, 65 and June 27) July, 4th at Zandvoort, April 24th, 1966 at Zolder again and May22nd  66 in Spa if that helps another tracing of his car.

Edited by PonysiteEd, 08 March 2015 - 18:59.

[JanAlsemgeest]

Have you seen the track test of the Mann Mustang done by Paddy McNally in Autosport 10.12.65? It is quite comprehensive, as they always were.

Roger Lund

 

Dear Roger, No I did not seen this. I do got the track test of Pierpoints Mustang in the Motor Racing magazine of July 1965.

 

 

Could you e-mail me a scanned copy as well to this email address Jan.alsemgeest@gmail.com ?

Thanks in advance!

 

 

Bythe way: Here a photo of the Mustang (the old Jack Brabham/Alan Brown Mustang) as we raced it in the Netherlands in 1977. It was a super race car and we gathered many trophies with it (being club champion the first season entered). The photo was taken at the oval circuit in Baarlo. On the fender was the (young!) owner Willem van der Ende. The car does not exist anymore.

Edited by JanAlsemgeest, 08 March 2015 - 19:22.

[bradbury west]

OK.
RL

[tjmann]

DPK 7B in action... I think the toll taken on them by the race was pretty brutal!

https://twitter.com/...627931517022208

[PonysiteEd]

Yes, and It shows that the door number of the winning car DPK7B with #83 was later applied to DPK6B for publication purposes in the magazines.

 

I refound an answer to the DPG3B/DPJ8B destiny on my own Liege-Sofia-site (good to have a web-scrapbook) http://www.ponysite.de/liege.htm , but I updated it a "bit".

[Lee Nicolle]

Jackie Oliver
Dear members, try to find out the history of Jackie Olivers first light blue painted 1964-65 race Mustang. He raced with this one only in the 1966 racing season (with 5 lug wheels and high cut-out wheel arch fender lips).
For an image of this car check:
http://shop.simonlew...98x191[ekm].jpg

He entered the car under the following car numbers: # 91 (July 1966), #205 (August 1966) and # 41 (October 1966). Probably the latest race was 30th October 1966 at the BARC International Motorshow at Brand Hatch. The car was entered (prepared?) by D&R Fabrications or DR Racing? (DR Racing Division?).

For the 1967 season he entered the race with a white Mustang (updated: with RED stripes) with a GT rear valance (2 exhaust pipes coming through the rear), the special wheels with Knock-Off nuts and lower wheel arch fender lips.

Now the following questions:
Does someone know what was the (original?) colour this (light blue) Mustang when it arrived at D&R Fabrications (DR Racing?) before it was painted light blue?
Can someone give me information regarding the preparation DR Racing did made on that car (e.g. body modifications, engine, was there already the rear axle with disk-brakes?).
What is happened with this car after the 1966 season?


Besides these Jackie Oliver related questions I also have a lot of questions regarding the 1965 Mustang of Alan Brown who was driven (raced! J) in the UK by Sir Jack Brabham in 1965 and 1966 (and Ronnie Lyon in 1966 and 1967). As I am an old mechanic of one of the Dutch racers who race this car in the 70ties in the Netherlands I did already gathered “a lot” (!) of images and details about this car (with the valuable help of Wolfgang / www.ponysite.de ). Still there are (too) many questions….. Please help me (us).

 

Who can remember something about the preparation and/or maintenance of this Bright RED (in ‘65) or (later) Deep Red?Brown? (Gold hood edge stripes) Alan Brown race Mustang?
Where was it done? Who knows details?
Some say it was "partially done" at Alan Mann Racing. That is not confirmed yet.
This Alan Brown car definitly has all the special features as on the origin "DPK" cars. Check: http://touringcarrac...on Park GC.html

I have a theory for that which I try to find evident for.
In 1966 this Alan Brown Mustang was raced by Jack Brabham with a Tecelamit Jackson (LOTUS) Fuel injection system (which I still owned :-) on top of the small block Ford 289 engine.
Are there images of the Alan Brown (Jack Braham) or Ronnie Lyon Mustang not published on the internet yet (or images of the engine compartment)?
Can anyone supply me with new details, anecdotes or images?
If wanted (not to publish images or info) then it is possible to contact me directly (PB? or e-mail?)
Please note that this Jack Brabham car as it is an other car than Oliver’s Mustang (maybe it’s better to make another topic for the 2nd part).

Please reply! Thanks.
Jan Alsemgeest, The Netherlands

Just as a point. All V8 Mustangs were 5 stud wheels. 6s were 4 stud. Something that too me has never made any sense, especially as the cars have different brakes and suspension too!

[JanAlsemgeest]

Just as a point. All V8 Mustangs were 5 stud wheels. 6s were 4 stud. Something that too me has never made any sense, especially as the cars have different brakes and suspension too!

 

A little bit off topic Lee   , however, to prevent you sleepless nights :..... If they already produce cars with 4 lugs wheels and if you make a Million cars and could spare 400 grams of wheelbolts and nuts (100 gram each) on the half of them then you talking abbout 200 tons of steel (and probably more... ).

Edited by JanAlsemgeest, 09 March 2015 - 06:47.

[Alan Cox]

.One question: could you check on the original slide or photo what is lettering on the rear fender? These are small letters and I cannot read it.

It's not awfully clear on the scan I have, Jan, but I'm pretty sure it says:

ALAN BROWN RACING

Dvr: J BRABHAM

Hope this helps

[Alan Cox]

Jackie Oliver's DR Fabrications car (No.125) in the Oulton paddock - Gold Cup 16 September 1967

Alan Cox photograph

 

[Peter Darley]

Jackie Oliver's DR Fabrications car (No.125) in the Oulton paddock - Gold Cup 16 September 1967

Alan Cox photograph

With owner Ken Baker, and Brian Ham of Firestone.

[JanAlsemgeest]

It's not awfully clear on the scan I have, Jan, but I'm pretty sure it says:
ALAN BROWN RACING
Dvr: J BRABHAM
Hope this helps

Hahaha, yes thats very plausible! I never could read it on the different images.
Thanks for solving this "mystery" for me.

[PonysiteEd]

Jan, found this one in Sportscars Oct. 65, the Brabham car as of August 65, this time letters say Alan Brown Racing, Jack Brabham

Alan Mann protested the Brabham cars engine set-up in the final race as I think John Grant recalled (http://www.ponysite.de/john_grant.htm).

Edited by PonysiteEd, 09 March 2015 - 20:57.

[275 GTB-4]

That wheel and tyre combo must really have geared up the car...

[PonysiteEd]

For Jans specific research request pls. find the picture from author Graham Robson below. I got back then his permission to use it for research options. I had filed it as a Pierpoint car maybe from his words, John Grant could not nail it instantly, we came back to it in the past years more often, but I don't recall the details anymore, my notes are buried in piles somewhere...

[tjmann]

So what we (again with my AMR hat on) have been able to establish:

 

To our knowledge, 3 of the 4 TDF cars were prepared for the BSCC in 1965, and driven by Roy Pierpoint, Sir Gawaine Baillee and Mike Salmon. The winning car, DPK 7B, was flown to the U.S for exhibition purposes on 30th September 1964. The car Jack Brabham drove in 1965 was imported, prepared and run by Alan Brown from Connaught Cars in Ripley, Surrey, and had nothing to do with AMR.

As for DPK 5B, if the current owner would like verification of the chassis identity, it would be possible to arrange. Minor chassis modifications were carried out on all the AMR Mustangs, and the man who did them is still associated with our company and would be able to recognise his work. Also, we have in the archive the original certificates of origin from Ford Division and many as yet unpublished period photographs which would enable definitive verification.

[JanAlsemgeest]

So what we (again with my AMR hat on) have been able to establish:

To our knowledge, 3 of the 4 TDF cars were prepared for the BSCC in 1965, and driven by Roy Pierpoint, Sir Gawaine Baillee and Mike Salmon. The winning car, DPK 7B, was flown to the U.S for exhibition purposes on 30th September 1964.

Dear Tom, if this is correct (the 3 remaining TDF cars were used for the BSCC in 1965) then the Sir Gawain Baillies car has to be the "DPK-4B" car, however, without the DPK-4B licence plates!
I could be (it does have the RH fender fuel filler cap on top and many other TDF car items), however, some details I found that make it different to the other 3 TDF race cars.
If all 4 TDF cars where High Performance ("K") cars and all identical, then I could not explain why on the Sir Gawain Baillies car there are no High Performance batches?
Other differencens compared to the other 3 TDF race cars:
It has no leather hood security strap,
It has a red dash pad (red interiour?) while the other 3 TDF race cars had black dash pads,
it has the chrome side sculpture on the side of the rear fenders while the other 3 TDF race cars does not has these,
It does not have the holes in the front bumper for the rally lights.
It could indeed be the fourth TDF car, but in that case there where differences which were not mentioned before (not known to me).
The explanation of Mr John Grant on www.Ponysite.de abbout Mr Ballies car does not match but maybe I got for that an explanation as well
Maybe you can find an answer for this when searchin the boxes and files. I never seen an image of all 4 DPK-*B together during the Tour Du France so if you, or if someone else (!) has one, please, send it to me by e-mail (jan.alsemgeest@gmail.com) or by PM.

To explain my thougths in detail (and maybe this is news as well):
The Pius Zund Mustang with the DPK-4B licence plates is (in my opinion!) actualy the "lost" prototype Mustang which your father drove himself!
I dont think it is the TDF service car but that he used the Licence plates only for using this car on the road (there were no licence plates animore on Sir Gawain Baillies car....).
Besides that there are a lot of details on the Zund Mustang to make me believe this is the proto car (maybe your search could proof that or proof the opposite?).
First it is a 260 v8 car (has all the decals). In the book of your father is mentioned that it originally it had a six with 3 speed but on the photo's of the proto cars there are clearly V8 badges visible and (as far as I could see) 5 lugs wheels (which stand for a V8 powered car, straight six cars does have 4 lugs wheels). Maybe your father said "a 260 (two-sixty) engine" what is wrongly interpreted as "six engine?
Furher indications are the missing F O R D letters on the hood. If I'm correct they were not visible on the Proto type car, neither on the Scuderia Filipinetti (Pius Zund) Mustang.
It has no leather hood security strap, no high front fender wheel arches, no modified front valance (with extra air-duct for the radiator), no holes in the front bumper for the rally lights (ALL typical TDF features)....
Strangely enough it has a red interiour but a black dash pad? Normally red interiour cars had red dashes (a proto/pre series shortage of correct parts?)
it has the chrome side sculpture on the side of the rear fenders while the other 3 TDF race cars does not has these....
Sorry that I'm not allowed to post the images with details. I did find them here: https://purl.stanford.edu/hz678mk1243 and https://purl.stanford.edu/wv531kc6444
Last possible evidence could be that your father left his personal use Red Mustang (the "protoype") in Swiss in June 1965 after a small accident where the radiator was punctured. He was traveling from a race in Germany to the Marseille in France (the book: Live of chance, page 94?). Maybe the Scuderia Filipinetti organisation pick-up the Mustang and keep it for later races in that season (August and September).
If it is still there, or who is the (legal!) owner on this moment I dont know........ Could be worth investigating....

Maybe this new vision can help you go more clearly through the boxes and find details with this in mind (need help? )

I also find a picture showing the "lost" DPK-7B after the last race of Skip Scott so for this I also has an explanation what happened with this car in the US.
For this announcement you will have to wait thill I got more details (other words: let me know what you find and I (we!?) will make my other findings public).

Lest but not least: Do anybody know what happened with the Gawain Ballies car after he stopped racing with it (it was sold)?????



After this advertisement in Autosport of 19 August 1966 I could not find much details.
Please, inform me/us if you have information.

p.s. sorry for my incorrect English sometimes, but I hope you all will forgive that Dutchman.....

Edited by JanAlsemgeest, 02 November 2015 - 16:27.