3949 replies to this topic

[A3]

This year Toro Rosso has an exciting all rookie line up!



Sainz has more open wheel experience than Verstappen, but Verstappen has the advantage of doing a couple of days of F1 friday running last year.

Will one of them end up at Red Bull in a couple of years or will they fade away..... Questions, questions!

Let the battle begin!

Standing after the China Qualifying session:

Qualifying: Sainz 2 - 2 Verstappen
Races:

Verstappen: 6 points

Sainz: 6 points

Melbourne
Qualifying
P8 Sainz
P12 Verstappen
Race
P9 Sainz (2 points)
DNF Verstappen (engine)

Malaysia
Qualifying
P6 Verstappen
P15 Sainz
Race
P7 Verstappen (6 points)
P8 Sainz (4 points)

China
Qualifying
P13 Verstappen
P14 Sainz

Race

P13 Sainz

DNF Verstappen (Engine, retired from P8)

 

Bahrain

Qualifying

P9  Sainz

P15  Verstappen

Race

DNF Verstappen (electrical)

DNF Sainz (loose wheel?)

 

Spain

Qualifying

P5 Sainz

P6 Verstappen

Race

P9 Sainz

P11 Verstappen

 

Monaco GP

Qualifying

P8 Sainz

P10 Verstappen

Race

P10 Sainz

DNF Verstappen (crashed into Grosjean)

 

Canada

Qualifying

P11 Sainz

P19 Verstappen

Race

P12 Sainz

P15 Verstappen

Edited by A3, 07 June 2015 - 21:25.

[Lights]

Both drivers were very impressive last year, both had a season with many wins but lacking many further podiums. Kinda hit or miss. I suspect it could be a year where each driver gets weekends to outshine the other. Deep down I hope Verstappen comes out as the clear winner, because I really want a 17 year old to succeed in F1 so that many can eat humble pie, which is always a spectacle.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Verstappen has the better talent, Sainz more experience. My guess is they'll start off very close, but Verstappen will edge him on points in the end.

[BRG]

Sainz has far more experience and should handle the pressure far better.  For me, F1 is meant to be the top of the sport, not a place for young lads to learn the basics of motor racing.

[Kyo]

My bet is on Verstappen. Why? Because what he did in his 1st year driving formula and because Sainz has showed too many ups and downs and I believe one reason for that is he never done too well in traffic.

[043Max]

No doubt about this one, Maximum Score for Max. And by this I mean a 100% team mate beating in 2015, all sessions, all of them.

[Donkey]

Will be interesting to see whether Toro Rosso and Red Bull treat the drivers the same or not. Verstappen definitely needs some protection from the media/some PR training imo. The worst thing for him would be if he had a silly crash at one of the first races and the media jumped on him as being too young/inexperienced for F1.

[showtime]

If Max is up to the hype then he'll beat Carlos comfortably (I think he's just an average driver).  

[Button4life]

Max Verstappen will be a faster than Sainz. I expect him to be a class above in the quali in the 1st few races, but as fast as Sainz in the race. Verstappen will get more and more the upper hand as the season progresses.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Carlos Sainz Jr. will beat Max Verstappen. No doubt about it.

[Nitropower]

We'll see. This ain't no lower category where you can almost ram others out of the track, also cars have a big leap in performance compared to each other. I don't trust in any hypes so I'll just wait and see who's best but in my mind Max is clearly Red Bull's new protegé and Carlos is just second fiddle, doesn't mean to me that will be the natural order of things, but beforehand it looks like that.

Edited by Nitropower, 11 March 2015 - 23:25.

[showtime]

We'll see. This ain't no lower category where you can almost ram others out of the track, also cars have a big leap in performance compared to each other. I don't trust in any hypes so I'll just wait and see who's best but in my mind Max is clearly Red Bull's new protegé and Carlos is just second fiddle, doesn't mean to me that will be the natural order of things, but beforehand it looks like that.

 

There's no doubt about that, we know who they promoted first and who got the seat thanks to Vettel's move. 

[Disgrace]

Will be interesting to see whether Toro Rosso and Red Bull treat the drivers the same or not. Verstappen definitely needs some protection from the media/some PR training imo. The worst thing for him would be if he had a silly crash at one of the first races and the media jumped on him as being too young/inexperienced for F1.

 

It's not going to happen. The same arguments about being too young for F1 have come and gone before with Tuero, Raikkonen and Kvyat. Verstappen needs good management more than anything if he encounters any trouble. This is where Sainz might have an advantage - but the evidence is that he is also prone to losing performance in times of distress.

[sopa]

I am not informed enough on what to expect from a rookie battle. I know Verstappen is considered to be more talented of the two, but points battle could end up in any way really. Because if you race for minor points and get a few 9ths and 10ths, somebody gets a P5 in a messy race and "wins the battle".

 

The funny thing also is that BOTH are basically rookies. But looking at reactions, you'd get a feeling that while Max was a rookie, Carlos was already a seasoned veteran. Sainz Jr is also very young and - like Verstappen - has some improvement potential in him. And is hardly going to be flawless this year.

Edited by sopa, 12 March 2015 - 09:23.

[AlexS]

Proper naming of this thopic should be with Roman numerals:  Verstappen II vs Sainz II  

[Juan Kerr]

Really is that so? It made no difference to me.

[A3]

Proper naming of this thopic should be with Roman numerals:  Verstappen II vs Sainz II  

No, they are the improved versions of their fathers.

[aramos]

Verstappen, even from pre season testing most seem more impressed with him.

[Seanspeed]

Sainz has far more experience and should handle the pressure far better.  For me, F1 is meant to be the top of the sport, not a place for young lads to learn the basics of motor racing.

Will you reevaluate this position if Verstappen ends up on top?

[A3]

not a place for young lads to learn the basics of motor racing.

 

So you wouldn't agree that it's karting where the basics of motor racing are learned??

Edited by A3, 12 March 2015 - 10:05.

[BRG]

No, they are the improved versions of their fathers.

In that case, Sainz has it in the bag, given that his dad is a one of the greatest talents the sport has ever seen, and Max's dad was a journeyman at best.

 

Will you reevaluate this position if Verstappen ends up on top?

Yes.  WIll you when Sainz ends on top?

 

So you wouldn't agree that it's karting where the basics of motor racing are learned??

No.  Driving full size racing cars is very different and needs to be learnt.  Max has made a start but has a lot of learning to do and F1 isn't meant to be a kindergarten.

[A3]

Formula 3 cars don't count either?

[JeePee]

'Basics'. I don't think it means what BRG thinks it means.

[sniper80]

Let's see wether Verstappen is better than his father. Let's hope he is not as arrogant when some speed shows up...

But I have a feeling Max is different. More down to earth and calm. I don't get why STR took Sainz on board. Ocon would have been a better choice.

Edited by sniper80, 12 March 2015 - 19:42.

[BRG]

Formula 3 cars don't count either?

Yes.  They are a good grounding for more powerful cars like GP2 or WSR, where you learn the more advanced stuff, enough to make you a rookie in F1.  Why do people use the term rookie if drivers can learn everything in karts?  

 

'Basics'. I don't think it means what BRG thinks it means.

I know what it means.  But I suspect you don't.

[A3]

Yes. They are a good grounding for more powerful cars like GP2 or WSR, where you learn the more advanced stuff, enough to make you a rookie in F1. Why do people use the term rookie if drivers can learn everything in karts?

Have to say it's amazing how much you know. Please explain to me what the "advanced stuff" is exactly. Maybe you should advies Red Bull / Toro Rosso, they clearly forgot to put Max in GP2 or WSR!!!

You're a rookie in the season when you start in any new series, no?

Edited by A3, 12 March 2015 - 20:06.

[Seanspeed]

Yes.  WIll you when Sainz ends on top?

You mean 'if'?

And I don't believe I even told you my position.

[Smile17]

Sainz all the way obviously.

[softtyre]

Sainz

[Lipp]

Guys, let's just wait and see how it goes. Toro Rosso are a midfield team, in the points for either driver will be great.

 

As to the comparison of the two drivers... I expect Max to be quicker but Sainz will score more points over the course of the season.

Edited by Lipp, 12 March 2015 - 21:50.

[evo]

Shouldn't this be Verstappen 2.0 v Sainz 1.0?

 

Sainz Snr was never an open-wheel driver.

 

In that light, it would be too close to call - quietly excited about how well a boy can do in F1.

[Paincake]

Definitely like both, so its too hard to choose. Max is definitely more hyped, and since he is Dutch he will get my support. But Carlos Sainz jr is one handsome and humble kid, can't help but hope for his succes in the future.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

Reserving my judgement because I'm really unsure how both will cope with the pressure and the newness of everything.

[Rikhart]

This will be one of the most interesting aspects of F1 2015. Verstappen has been hyped to death, always curious to see if it has any base to stand on.

[Lipp]

too bad about the second free practice, but based on what I saw both Max and Sainz are quite evenly matched!

[Paincake]

Sainz is fast for sure, really damn fast.

[BRG]

Have to say it's amazing how much you know. Please explain to me what the "advanced stuff" is exactly. Maybe you should advies Red Bull / Toro Rosso, they clearly forgot to put Max in GP2 or WSR!!!

Nothing like a bit of sarcasm when you haven't got anything else...

[RubberKubrick]

Definitely like both, so its too hard to choose. Max is definitely more hyped, and since he is Dutch he will get my support. But Carlos Sainz jr is one handsome and humble kid, can't help but hope for his succes in the future.

 

The present-day Cevert in that regard?

[A3]

Nothing like a bit of sarcasm when you haven't got anything else...

Nah, I kinda was hoping you were not serious in your posts....

[BRG]

Nah, I kinda was hoping you were not serious in your posts....

Why?  Is it against some cosmic command to actually think that Sainz might do better than Verstappen? 

 

I think Max is too young and immature to handle the pressures of F1 and has been overhyped by people on the strength of some good but not overwhelming performances.  Carlos on the other hand has paid his dues and learnt his craft.  So I think he is better placed to succeed in Toro Rosso.  But it seems such a heretical view is anathema and must be stamped out.

[A3]

Sainz is fast for sure, really damn fast.

 

He is indeed! I'm really curious how far they can get in qualifying.

[A3]

Why?  Is it against some cosmic command to actually think that Sainz might do better than Verstappen? 

 

No, not at all. But when you say he still needs to learn the basics of motor racing, you surely can't be serious?

 

I think Max is too young and immature to handle the pressures of F1 and has been overhyped by people on the strength of some good but not overwhelming performances.  Carlos on the other hand has paid his dues and learnt his craft.  So I think he is better placed to succeed in Toro Rosso.  But it seems such a heretical view is anathema and must be stamped out.

Not at all. But when you use words like "kindergarten", that's just unfair. What did Max (not) do to give you the idea he can't handle the pressure of F1?

[Lipp]

Read the article on Autosport+ Ten things we learned from practice:
TORO ROSSO ROOKIES LOOK LIKE VETERANS.

[Seanspeed]

Why?  Is it against some cosmic command to actually think that Sainz might do better than Verstappen? 

No. But this part here:
 

I think Max is too young and immature to handle the pressures of F1 and has been overhyped by people on the strength of some good but not overwhelming performances.

tells me that you hold some romantic notion of F1 being this super elite world that only the most battle hardened warriors could ever dare succeed in. But they're just cars. And unless you know Max on a personal level, its ridiculous to say he lacks the maturity to handle the pressure.

And calling Max overhyped and his performances only 'good' tells me you have a big lack of understanding of the significance of his performances last year.

We'll see.

[William Hunt]

I think Sainz is underrated and Verstappen hyped a bit too much, both will do fine but Sainz will come out on top

Edited by William Hunt, 13 March 2015 - 23:59.

[Eff One 2002]

 For me, F1 is meant to be the top of the sport

Unfortunately, F1 is supposed to be a lot of things that it simply no longer is.

[zanquis]

I think it will be even match but based on last year I expect Max to find that special speed that you need faster. Sainz might win first fp but as weekend progresses Max wil come on top.

Also Sainz shows more that he is on the edge of his limits as he makes more mistakes vs Verstappen not making enough. It feels like he is holding back aka driving on safe mode almost.

Edited by zanquis, 14 March 2015 - 06:22.

[micktosin]

I am impressed with Verstappen, this kid is quick. Should be an interesting battle for the rest of the season.

[Jimisgod]

1 - 0 to Sainz.

[BRK]

They certainly seem to be very quick. This sort of thing is what F1 needs more of.