1210 replies to this topic

[Sunnyy]

For those who have read Napoleon Hills book " Think and grow rich" they will be familiar of the story of RU Darby and his uncle who had a hunch that there was gold in Colorado, borrowed money from family and friends to buy the digging machinery only to get frustrated and quit their project and sell the business to a local junk man for a few hundred dollars. The junk man called in an expert to see if there was an opportunity and indeed there was. They discovered that RU Darby quit digging 3 feet from what will later become Colorado's biggest gold mine. 

 

So the question should be asked 

 

"Did Alonso make a big mistake leaving Ferrari so soon?" And without a doubt the answer is yes.

 

 

It should be noted the Ferrari has been heavily restructured are only going to get better. The engine is on par or even better than Merc. The tyre wear is better the chassis is improving. 2016 was supposed to be their year of resurgence but they have already surpassed their expectations. There is an air of optimism and new found energy in Ferrari. If there is a team to be in now it's Ferrari! 

 

In a cruel twist of fate it may turn out that  just as Alonso left McLaren's WC Car in 07 he come back 7 years later to a under performing McLaren and while giving up a Ferrari that will win the WDC in 2015 and beyond.

 

As Napoleon Hill said " One of the most common causes of failure is the habit of quitting when one is overtaken by temporary defeat"

 

Perhaps this is Alonso's 3 feet from gold moment or in f1 terms 6 tenths from Gold.

Edited by Sunnyy, 29 March 2015 - 10:44.

[Zoetrope]

Just after one race I am not sure Ferrari are that much closer to win a championship than McLaren - and that's the ultimate goal for Alonso. The season itself is still young, and the whole McLaren project goes way beyond one season.

[itsnoe30]

We don't know, only time will tell. You can say he's made a mistake looking at it right now, but this season won't matter if he wins the championship next 3 years.

[GoldenColt]

Alonsos career has taken the wrong path for two decisions: 1st one to not sign for RB in 2008. 2nd one for not staying at least another year at Ferrari with a contract that was going to continue for two more years.

 

Fernando Alonso, one of the best drivers of all time but at the wrong place at the wrong time too often.

Edited by GoldenColt, 29 March 2015 - 13:53.

[Galko877]

If Ferrari finishes 2nd this year it will not drive Alonso crazy. He's been there, done that. The question is which of the two teams will win the title sooner. And the jury is still out on that.

[sopa]

If Ferrari finishes 2nd this year it will not drive Alonso crazy. He's been there, done that. The question is which of the two teams will win the title sooner. And the jury is still out on that.

 

There is also the possibility that neither team wins a title any time soon (or as long as Alonso's caree lasts), which neither has done since 2008. In which case it doesn't mean any difference for Alonso, just a different experience now.

[tmekt]

It's easy to reap the benefits of hindsight. He had his chance to stay but as I understood at the time wasn't willing to sign the multi-year contract which Ferrari wanted. I think him leaving was understandable, there wasn't much hope after 2014, the whole engine freeze and everything looked like it was game over for Ferrari.

 

McLaren will eventually make a comeback but it's a little worrying for Alonso how much behind they are now with Honda. It might take a long time for them to develop themselves out of the current situation (and to even think about championships) and Alonso's career might not have that many years left in it. He's already a world champion though and has had an impressive career so I don't think it's too big of an issue to him.

Edited by tmekt, 29 March 2015 - 10:27.

[krobinson]

From another topic:

 

Alonso's choices in his career have been more than awful. He had an offer to join Red Bull for 2008 and had he taken it, he would have won 5 titles in row. Now he leaves Ferrari just as Ferrari finally design the best car they have done from 2007 on. It is sad that a guy like him has never in his career had the outright fastest car of the season (2007 was about equal), despite being the best driver for so long. Just awful awful stupid choices. Now he is stuck at McLaren driving a car that is about 4-5 seconds off pace and unable to get out of Q1.

[DILLIGAF]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[itsnoe30]

Alonsos career has taken the wrong path for two decisions: 1st one to not sign for RB for 2008. 2nd one for not staying at least another year at Ferrari with a contract that was going to continue for two more years.

 

Fernando Alonso, one of the best drivers of all time but at the wrong place at the wrong time too often.

Nobody in Alonso's position would sign for RB at the time. And if he had, there would be same questions about it as there are now.

[BRK]

He had a good car in 2010 and lost the title. Had a fun few years at Ferrari, moved on. Not sure what the issue is. When you go ten years without a title and blame it all on the four different teams you've raced for -stirring up needless controversy for two of them- any reasonable person would begin to wonder if the one doing the complaining isn't part of the problem, too. 

 

I have always maintained that there is an inordinate amount of hype surrounding Alonso, but it's not the man's fault. I'll bet Alonso himself wouldn't indulge in the sort of day-dreaming I've gotten used to seeing on here. 

Edited by BRK, 29 March 2015 - 10:31.

[sopa]

But to answer the OP. 

 

We can discuss if McLaren can win the title in 2018. We can discuss if Ferrari may only finish second, but can't win the title. Whatever. Button seemed like a lost cause before he suddenly won in 2009 and got his career back on track - unexpectedly even for himself.

 

But in hindsight (Copyright by Martin Whitmarsh) sure enough there are better and worse decisions. Chances are pretty big that Alonso will end up with 2 WDC titles anyway. These are all things we would later be taking into account, evaluate retrospectively and ask questions "what if he did or decided this or that."

 

Whoever wins, can be happy. Whoever loses, questions will be asked  -"what if". But that's the beauty and pain of life and sport. In order to make good decisions, somebody has to make bad ones as well to balance it out.

[krobinson]

He had a good car in 2010 and lost the title.

 

 

Just like Vettel had a good car last year and lose the title.
 

[Massa]

Just after one race I am not sure Ferrari are that much closer to win a championship than McLaren - and that's the ultimate goal for Alonso. The season itself is still young, and the whole McLaren project goes way beyond one season.

 

 

It's not even close. Mclaren is racing FI, Ferrari is racing Mercedes and it's the only team who beat Mercedes without them getting into reliability problem or whatever since the new regs.

[benn5325]

McLaren is more than capable of building a title winning car, and Honda is capable of supplying a PU that is up to it. I wouldn't get to worried right now

[OneAndOnly]

We are having this topic after just two races?

[tmekt]

 

Just like Vettel had a good car last year and lose the title.
 

Alonso was 4 points behind Vettel in 2010 and Vettel scored less than a half of the champion's points in 2014. Yeah, sure, the seasons are entirely comparable.

[Dolph]

Alonsos career has taken the wrong path for two decisions: 1st one to not sign for RB for 2008. 2nd one for not staying at least another year at Ferrari with a contract that was going to continue for two more years.

 

Fernando Alonso, one of the best drivers of all time but at the wrong place at the wrong time too often.

 

Yeah, that's the same reason I don't win the lottery - I keep picking the wrong numbers. If I could do it with hindsight it would be a sinch.

Edited by Dolph, 29 March 2015 - 10:36.

[Crossmax]

 

Just like Vettel had a good car last year and lose the title.
 

 

Yeah, something tells me Vettel is really gutted that he so narrowly missed out on the title last year.

[krumpli12]

From a career POV? More than likely yes. 

 

However when it comes to the Big Picture that doesn't mean a lot. I am sure he will learn very valuable lessons from his whole career. All in all, it was a great ride and if he can help Honda to launch their F1 project which will be there long after he is retired he cannot complain. A 3rd championship was not too realistic for a long time now. Sometimes the best you can do is to let go. I am sure crashing into a concrete wall and having to watch others racing from afar gave him some perspective on McL's troubles.

[sopa]

Alonso was 4 points behind Vettel in 2010 and Vettel scored less than a half of the champion's points in 2014. Yeah, sure, the seasons are entirely comparable.

 

That's because Alonso is twice the driver Vettel is, obviously! 

[narcotic]

Alonso didnt made any mistake quitting Ferrari, he was fired, as other more important key persons in ferrari f1 team. This is new era for Ferrari and alonso wasnt in plans of new Management, very simple

[Lazy]

Only time will tell.

[sopa]

Alonso didnt made any mistake quitting Ferrari, he was fired, as other more important key persons in ferrari f1 team. This is new era for Ferrari and alonso wasnt in plans of new Management, very simple

 

I remember last year there were arguments.

Would you prefer a great car with not-so-great drivers or a great driver, who wrings the speed out of rubbish cars?

 

If you have such a dilemma, then...

Well, you take the great car any day, because it is a bigger differentiator than the driver! 

[Gorma]

Short term: Yes. Long term: Probably. 

[pRy]

Too early to say but if you take todays race he was running around at a pace he won't have seen since his Minardi days whilst his former team that he spent years waiting to produce a good car just won the race. He's not going to be feeling very good about that situation regardless of what positive spin he puts on it. He's an elder statesman of F1. A double WC. He won't put up with being at the back of the field for long. 

[pusko]

Don't know. Too early to say. Will know more by the end of the season and specially begining of 2016.

[noikeee]

It does look like he made the wrong move - but it was a perfectly sensible, logical gamble to take.

[Taxi]

He made the wrong choice for one reason: Big teams are now closed with younger and faster drivers [Vettel and Hamilton]. So winning another WDC is almost impossible in the next 3 years. 

[ANF]

Hard to tell what this year's Ferrari would have been like if Alonso had stayed in the team, isn't it?

[JohnDoe]

The engine is on par or even better than Merc. The tyre wear is better the chassis is improving.

 

Mercedes made one strategic error and suddenly they have been surpassed in all aspects. What a cruel world we live in.

[Muzzyf1]

No he has not .

Is he extremely unlucky in his timing yes .

Don't forget he won this exact race not that long ago in a worse car.

[Kulturen]

The situation in Ferarri was toxic and that team needed blowing up. And Fernando was part of that organisation.

 

It was simply the end of Fernando's Ferrari cycle and it was time to move on. You can't keep looking at how Ferrari does afterwards. Ferrari would have gotten better sooner or later, you can't start with the ifs...

Edited by Kulturen, 29 March 2015 - 10:56.

[kimster89]

He shouldnt change teams in his carrer anymore. He should get it with Honda or thats it. He ran out of patience with just a year too early. I cant believe the amount of frustration fernando has had to feel in his carrer.

[Nonesuch]

Let's see what McLaren-Honda does towards the middle and end of the season.

 

Alonso wants to win a World Championship, not Grand Prix' for the sake of it. Whether or not he will succeed is, of course, a very open question.

[Seanspeed]

He made the wrong choice for one reason: Big teams are now closed with younger and faster drivers [Vettel and Hamilton]. So winning another WDC is almost impossible in the next 3 years.

I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari took him back(if Alonso wanted to come back). I don't believe the whole 'toxicity within the team' stuff that seemed largely pushed by the media trying to sell stories. Alonso left because he was losing faith in the ability of Ferrari, which even as a Ferrari fan, I found an understandable sentiment. I might have done the same thing in his place.

But Alonso and Ferrari had a lot of good times together and it'd be great if a new and better car this year attracted him back. An Alonso/Vettel line-up would be smashing.

[kimster89]

Noo way Ferrari takes him back. They have their nbr.1 team leader driver, good car and good harmony in the team. Alonso will just couse trouble.

[toxicfusion]

But Alonso and Ferrari had a lot of good times together and it'd be great if a new and better car this year attracted him back. An Alonso/Vettel line-up would be smashing.

 

Would require lots of "Vettel blocks Alonso move" stories first though ;)

Edited by toxicfusion, 29 March 2015 - 11:12.

[Fatgadget]

He can go to any team he chooses to...Oh wait ! Wasn't a wise choice leaving McLaren 2007 nor was it Ferrari last year  least of course he was pushed out.

[prty]

Noo way Ferrari takes him back. They have their nbr.1 team leader driver, good car and good harmony in the team. Alonso will just couse trouble.

 

No way McLaren takes him back. Toxic driver, 100M fine, burned bridges, blah, blah, blah

[krea]

That would mean that he was able to decide about his future at Ferrari.

[Brazzers]

Noo way Ferrari takes him back. They have their nbr.1 team leader driver, good car and good harmony in the team. Alonso will just couse trouble.

 

They said the same about him and McLaren.

 

Alonso's Ferrari career started rosy like Seb too, it may be premature to conclude anything just yet. I really do believe Seb is living his dream and I believe wholeheartedly of his dream to drive for Ferrari though. Perhaps let's see what happens in the next year or so.

[tmekt]

No way McLaren takes him back. Toxic driver, 100M fine, burned bridges, blah, blah, blah

No way Ferrari takes Kimi back, paid him not to race, unmotivated etc.

[kimster89]

No way McLaren takes him back. Toxic driver, 100M fine, burned bridges, blah, blah, blah

It took 8 years for Mclaren to get over that.

 

Fernando will be 42 in 8 years.

 

Would Ferrari take 42 year old driver?

[krumpli12]

It took 8 years for Mclaren to get over that.

 

Fernando will be 42 in 8 years.

 

Would Ferrari take 42 year old driver?

 

They way he left McLaren and the way he left Ferrari are completely different. However, I don't think he plans to go back or to any other team. He will finish his career at McLaren. 

Edited by krumpli12, 29 March 2015 - 11:20.

[kimster89]

My point is that Ferrari is getting in the position where it doesnt even need Alonso. He was part of the reconstructuring of the whole team. They both started new chapters in their lives.

[gribbli]

Fernando's mistake was throwing his weight around since 07' thinking he was bigger than the sport and burning every bridge in sight, that he has to team up with RD to get a seat tells us all we need to know. Ferrari are working together better this year after a process of resolving a number of issues within the team, one of which it was made clear was Fernando and way power in the team was gravitating around him. 

[sopa]

Let's see what McLaren-Honda does towards the middle and end of the season.

 

Alonso wants to win a World Championship, not Grand Prix' for the sake of it. Whether or not he will succeed is, of course, a very open question.

 

However, in order to win a championship you first need to start winning Grands Prix. You can't do it the other way around unless you attempt to be Keke Rosberg.  And even then he won 1 race, to be fair with him.

[Radion]

Only thing I don't understand is why Alonso didn't wait out Allison's car. He mentioned PP being a major influence at McLaren now. Guess he didn't believe in JA as much as in the right hand of Newey?

[Kimble]

The Ferrari wouldn't be a winning car if he was still there.