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SF15-T - Ferrari's 2015 F1 Challenger


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#101 dreamer

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 08:36

"@LorenzoDL83: #Piola "#Ferrari 666 with #RedBull nose style, pull-rod and with the #W05 lower wishbone" #Gazzetta http://t.co/lShzOAbd5T"

http://lorenzodl83.t...bull-nose-style

 

 

"@LorenzoDL83: #Piola "Of the #F14T is expected to remain only the front suspension pullrod, despite both #Kimi and #Vettel needs a very precise front end""

 

Well, if both drivers need a strong front end, then let's hope that the pullrod suspension fits well with the other changes, otherwise we can already spot the first mistake.



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#102 sopa

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 08:51

I think Allison is a very talented bloke, but I am getting the feeling people may be putting a bit too much faith on his shoulders, like he should single-handedly turn this car around.



#103 Thespianoid

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 09:12

They're KEEPING the pull-rod front suspension?  :confused:

 

I would have thought that'd be one of the very first changes made given their drivers' preferences...hopefully that report isn't 100% accurate. 


Edited by Thespianoid, 27 December 2014 - 09:13.


#104 shonguiz

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 15:52

Who designed the 2015 car ? Tombazis ?

#105 ingegnere

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 02:27

"@LorenzoDL83: #Piola "#Ferrari 666 with #RedBull nose style, pull-rod and with the #W05 lower wishbone" #Gazzetta http://t.co/lShzOAbd5T"

http://lorenzodl83.t...bull-nose-style

If the nose of 666 looks that good, I'll eat my hat!

 

And as for the pull-rod, if it's at the decent looking angle as drawn by Piola (instead of the F14T's almost horizontal positioning) it might actually work as intended!



#106 prty

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 08:55

"@LorenzoDL83: #Piola "Of the #F14T is expected to remain only the front suspension pullrod, despite both #Kimi and #Vettel needs a very precise front end""

 

Well, if both drivers need a strong front end, then let's hope that the pullrod suspension fits well with the other changes, otherwise we can already spot the first mistake.

 

 

Using LorenzoDL83 as a source (who I see that hilariously watermarks his name over drawings with Piola's signature in them), and a reply with a pull-rod = understeer post, that has to be the ultimate F1 plus internet forum cliché :lol:


Edited by prty, 28 December 2014 - 08:59.


#107 showtime

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 14:14

According to Omnicorse AVL is working on the development of the PU (combustion chamber and pistons).

 

http://www.omnicorse...ella-power-unit


Edited by showtime, 29 December 2014 - 14:18.


#108 shonguiz

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 14:32

Thats a very good news. For those of you who don't know, avl is one of the historical partner of BMW for its production engines.

#109 Cyanide

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 16:16

They're copying the Red Bull nose now, really? What ever happened to "not being afraid to be creative"? Or copying other people's work is what they call being creative?

 

If they do copy the RBR nose, then I'll be really disappointed. They're supposed to show some innovation for Christ's sake, not follow others' line of work. Like this they'll always be behind Mercedes and Red Bull, waiting for them to make good designs and replicating them later on. 



#110 Massa

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 20:49

They're copying the Red Bull nose now, really? What ever happened to "not being afraid to be creative"? Or copying other people's work is what they call being creative?

 

If they do copy the RBR nose, then I'll be really disappointed. They're supposed to show some innovation for Christ's sake, not follow others' line of work. Like this they'll always be behind Mercedes and Red Bull, waiting for them to make good designs and replicating them later on. 

 

It's just nonsence..

 

They don't copy, they just use whatever is good for their design. You really think they are saying " wow, nice nose, and their car is faster than ours so Nik copy that please " :drunk:

 

There is no Mercedes line of work, Red Bull line of work etc.., they are only aero solution to aero problem.



#111 George Costanza

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 21:27

They're copying the Red Bull nose now, really? What ever happened to "not being afraid to be creative"? Or copying other people's work is what they call being creative?

 

If they do copy the RBR nose, then I'll be really disappointed. They're supposed to show some innovation for Christ's sake, not follow others' line of work. Like this they'll always be behind Mercedes and Red Bull, waiting for them to make good designs and replicating them later on. 

In the history of F1, there have been minics of someone's other design.... Remember the DDD on Brawn? People wanted to copy that.



#112 Cyanide

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 21:41

In the history of F1, there have been minics of someone's other design.... Remember the DDD on Brawn? People wanted to copy that.

 

The point is: when was the last time someone wanted to copy something from Ferrari?



#113 Taxi

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 22:52

Technicaly speaking what would be Kimi's front suspension?


Edited by Taxi, 29 December 2014 - 22:54.


#114 InfectedPsy

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 23:01

Cyanide,  ask the photocopy guy, he'll show you plenty of points.  :rotfl:



#115 George Costanza

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 02:36

The point is: when was the last time someone wanted to copy something from Ferrari?

 

When Ferrari made winning cars.

 

2000-2004, 2006-2008 seasons. 



#116 f1RacingForever

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 04:45

Front pullrod next year? Well it doesn't take a genius to figure out what the excuse will be if neither kimi or vettel performs next year. Ferrari's have tended to have lazy front ends well before they changed to pullrod. Even as early as 2007 if you watch the onboards. I believe it is a result of their approach to looking after tires. The pirelli compounds just make the situation worse as the give up easily. I'm not sure how much can be improved if the car uses the same design philosophy's. Kimi and vettel will just have to adapt... If they can.

#117 CHIUNDA

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 06:08


Interesting, I have an exact opposite observation, Finally after 4-5 years of misdirection, they seem to made swift decisive decisions in last 2-3 months. Alonso must be wondering why didn't they make these changes when I was there.


Alonso leaving was part of the changes. Strong personalities like Alonso tend to create their little kingdoms around them that can make it dificult for strategy managers at Board level to achieve company objectives. Naturally a major restructuring of the type happening at Ferrari would only succeed if the heavy weights like Alonso are also uprooted.

#118 CHIUNDA

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 06:28

Arrivabene seems like the guy Ferrari need, a guy with a sharp head but without an inflated ego.


All these ceo types have inflated egos. Its just that the opportunity for us to witness this has not presented itself yet.

#119 SophieB

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 07:16

A couple of posts removed. Please keep the focus of discussion on the car. The driver obviously is an important part of how the team and car perform, but don't let this turn into a driver discussion thread instead, please. Not fair on the people who want to discuss/discover rumours and updates about the new car. Thank you!

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#120 dreamer

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 08:12

They're copying the Red Bull nose now, really? What ever happened to "not being afraid to be creative"? Or copying other people's work is what they call being creative?

 

If they do copy the RBR nose, then I'll be really disappointed. They're supposed to show some innovation for Christ's sake, not follow others' line of work. Like this they'll always be behind Mercedes and Red Bull, waiting for them to make good designs and replicating them later on. 

 

 

Is the RBR nose legal for 2015?



#121 Cyanide

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 08:53

When Ferrari made winning cars.

 

2000-2004, 2006-2008 seasons. 

 

There you go, my point exactly: a long time ago. Now they're nowhere near as innovative as back then, they've taken the role of lesser teams copying the big boys.  Which speaks volumes about the lack of creativity and prowess within their own technical department. 

 

 

Is the RBR nose legal for 2015?

 

I would have thought it isn't, but who knows these days how you can interpret the rules. 


Edited by Cyanide, 30 December 2014 - 08:55.


#122 Timstr11

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 08:55

Is the RBR nose legal for 2015?

 

Not according to Rob Marshall.

 

 

 

With a slightly less radical approach this year was Red Bull, but designer Rob Marshall says the change to meet the 2015 rules will still make a big difference.

In initial wind tunnel testing, he said "We were surprised how much [downforce] we lost." - See more at: http://autoweek.com/...h.RmbZHAte.dpuf


#123 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 09:25

When Ferrari made winning cars.

 

2000-2004, 2006-2008 seasons. 

Even back then, Ferrari took quite a conservative approach to car design. They took something that worked and honed it to perfection, beating the British teams who tried to be more innovative.



#124 NoSanityClause

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 09:37

There you go, my point exactly: a long time ago. Now they're nowhere near as innovative as back then, they've taken the role of lesser teams copying the big boys.  Which speaks volumes about the lack of creativity and prowess within their own technical department. 

 

 

 

I would have thought it isn't, but who knows these days how you can interpret the rules. 

Ferrari was never about being innovative, their technical breakthroughs being surprisingly few, considering the years in the sport.

 

McLaren, Lotus (Chapman era), Renault...those are some of the most innovative. 



#125 baddog

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 10:14

Even back then, Ferrari took quite a conservative approach to car design. They took something that worked and honed it to perfection, beating the British teams who tried to be more innovative.

 

The F2002 (the car that Frank William said fell from the sky as a perfect F1 machine) would like to take you around to the back of the garage and slap your silly mouth. 



#126 Radion

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 10:37

Ferrari should keep a very close eye on Newey's son. If he takes a similar career as his father, they should do anything to grab him. 

What about Ross Brawn? Does he have a son? If so, how old is he?

I think Michael's son will be in f1 in too.

 

Grab all of them at young age. With this strategy, Ferrari might be able to win championships again. Until then tho..  :cry:



#127 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 10:38

The F2002 (the car that Frank William said fell from the sky as a perfect F1 machine) would like to take you around to the back of the garage and slap your silly mouth. 

 

No need to be rude. The F2002 wasn't particularly innovative. It was tried and tested technology, perfected. Ferrari weren't wasting their time with twin keel suspension or unusual nose shapes or anything like that.



#128 kimster89

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 10:47

There is no need to be innovative, just for the sake of beeing innovative. The innovation must also work. Ferrari did try something different with this years car, sacrificing the PU layout for the sake of AERO. That was somehow innovative, but it didnt work. Ferrari first need to biult a car that isnt flawed from the get go. Amid restructuring they should go with a simple car this year and with concepts that worked with others in 2014.



#129 Reinmuster

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 11:20

Is the RBR nose legal for 2015?

 

 

Not according to Rob Marshall.

 

 

I didn't know if this video had posted here before but apparently only Ferrari's (compare to Mercedes, McLaren and Lotus) are legal for 2015, not sure if Red Bull's legal or not.

 


Edited by Reinmuster, 30 December 2014 - 11:23.


#130 aditya-now

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 11:23

They're KEEPING the pull-rod front suspension?  :confused:

 

I would have thought that'd be one of the very first changes made given their drivers' preferences...hopefully that report isn't 100% accurate. 

 

It's Ferrari, though.

 

Why do you think Alonso left?



#131 shonguiz

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 15:40

We are not talking about using instrumentation and tools here, we are talking about having an active role in design.

#132 kevinracefan

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 19:23

Ferrari did a wonderful job of copying (and improving) McLaren's F-duct...

 

all about wheel nuts since then, LOL...



#133 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 22:49

Why would Ferrari be so stupid to keep the same front end  :confused:  (if it is true). Their lead driver for 2015 didn't like it last season, so he sure as hell isn't going to like it in 2015 either.



#134 beute

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 23:53

Why would Ferrari be so stupid to keep the same front end  :confused:  (if it is true). Their lead driver for 2015 didn't like it last season, so he sure as hell isn't going to like it in 2015 either.

[citation needed]

 

 

where did Kimi or vettel say that?

All we know is that Kimi needs a strong front end.

Ferrari having a bad front end AND being the only team to run a front pull-rod doesnt necessarily mean that the pull rod suspension layout has anything to do with the problem.

you act as if it's a well established fact that the pull-rod is the cause of all front-end related problems.

If it was so easy then ferrari would have realized that on their own, they dont need autosport forum members to point that out...



#135 BJHF1

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 01:34

[citation needed]

 

 

where did Kimi or vettel say that?

All we know is that Kimi needs a strong front end.

Ferrari having a bad front end AND being the only team to run a front pull-rod doesnt necessarily mean that the pull rod suspension layout has anything to do with the problem.

you act as if it's a well established fact that the pull-rod is the cause of all front-end related problems.

If it was so easy then ferrari would have realized that on their own, they dont need autosport forum members to point that out...

 

 

+1

 

Blaming the front pull rod (for the weak front end turn in) has been the easy way out for a long time now  :drunk:  Made worse by the fact that the superior performing driver (Alonso) was the one who supposedly guided them in this direction. 



#136 blacky

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 09:29

I have to add that the front end of the car was also not so extremely precise before they changed to pull rod, look at 2011 and the years before (2008!). Also the tyres play a big role in this game. Look at Kimi, he came back in 2012, the year where the tyres were really soft (2013 even more...), this helped his driving style and his requests of the front of the car a lot.

 

2014 was very different - harder tyres: result = Kimi suffers 

Only look at the comment of Grosjean about the tyres 2014 and Kimi.


Edited by blacky, 31 December 2014 - 09:29.


#137 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 22:14

The point is: when was the last time someone wanted to copy something from Ferrari?

The most recent was tyre squirt slots ahead of the rear tyre.

 

You're being awful critical of Ferrari over a article that is mostly speculation. OmniCorse is a source I trust but they're not always right. Furthermore if you look at the article in question the title is "The 2015 Ferrari with a Red Bull style nose?"  <--- There is clearly a question mark in the title which means they don't know. But you're here criticizing the team over something that's not for certain...



#138 keiichi

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 21:51

http://www.omnicorse...o-tipo-red-bull

 

I'm not quite sure if this article from omnicorse has been posted here, and if it has, sorry in advance.

 

Some interesting stuff that has already been mentioned here but in the article seems to be a little more developed.



#139 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 05:57

#Turrini "Compared to the project that had been prepared, more or less 6 months ago, at #Maranello #Allison team is making big corrections."

#Turrini "Excluded, unles cataclysms, that #Vettel & #Raikkonen in Melbourne are able to fight for something more than a decent position"



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#140 DrF

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 09:30

What?

#141 Seanspeed

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 09:36

What?

They're saying that Allison's direction is making progress on 'correcting' issues and that they expect to be able to do more than just fight for 'decent positions'.

They're getting back on-track and aren't doomed, in other words.

#142 Brazzers

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 09:45

They're getting back on-track and aren't doomed, in other words.

 

I loved the doom and gloom talk though, oh boy! 



#143 AndyPerry

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 09:46

They're saying that Allison's direction is making progress on 'correcting' issues and that they expect to be able to do more than just fight for 'decent positions'.

They're getting back on-track and aren't doomed, in other words.

 

My understanding of the part of your text that I bolded is that they "although progress is made on "correcting" issues, they still don't expect to do more than fight for "decent" positions come Melbourne.



#144 chumma

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:00

When Ferrari made winning cars.

 

2000-2004, 2006-2008 seasons. 

To be fair, of all of those years, I think Sauber was the only car that was a direct copy of the Ferrari.



#145 Jovanotti

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:06

My understanding of the part of your text that I bolded is that they "although progress is made on "correcting" issues, they still don't expect to do more than fight for "decent" positions come Melbourne.

That' right, Turrini's own words (http://blog.quotidia...niche-senza-gp/) are:

 

"Ma è escluso, salvo felicissimi cataclismi, che Vettel e Raikkonen a Melbourne siano in grado di lottare per qualcosa in più di un decente piazzamento."

"It's impossible that Vettel and Räikkönen will be able to fight for something more than a decent placement". Whatever that means, it's not very positive.

 

And a hint for Lorenzo de Luca: probably use Google translate next time :wave:


Edited by Jovanotti, 05 January 2015 - 10:07.


#146 Zava

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:14

And a hint for Lorenzo de Luca: probably use Google translate next time :wave:

that's a hint for Sean, not for LdL  :p his tweet was clear, they excluded the [chance to] fight for more than decent positions.



#147 Massa

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:27

Now i understand why Tombazis and Fry have been fired..



#148 Jozha

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 11:04

C`mon guys. Is it really that hard to connect the dots?

Let`s start with main weakness last season - PU.
When Luca Marmorini was booted, his "excuse" was that he was told to sacrifice engine potential for aero. With smaller PU package, it is kind of logical that aero should be decent as it was but not good enough to cover weak PU.

If you look at Mercedes, it is clear that sacrificing power was mistake and that lead us to demand for more capable PU, not compromised that much (if at all) for aero ...

So, where will you put that PU?
In car designed as evolution of F14T with lower cooling demands?

I don`t think so. This is not lego ...

I don`t expect nothing spectacular for next season as they are in similar situation as McLaren with new PU. Start from scratch, make a good base than build on that.



#149 Cozzie

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 12:02

Turrini reporting now that their will be a 'suprise' with the front suspension.... pushrod or pull rod (doppia tirante?!) 

The 666 project is 99% reopened. They are designing components now that should have been ready weeks ago,  Likely that the first part of the season will be painful but the platform/basis for the car will be better then what was scheduled to be completed some weeks ago. Sources- skymotori (mainly!) 


Edited by Cozzie, 05 January 2015 - 12:03.


#150 Zava

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 12:17

Turrini reporting now that their will be a 'suprise' with the front suspension.... pushrod or pull rod (doppia tirante?!) 

The 666 project is 99% reopened. They are designing components now that should have been ready weeks ago,  Likely that the first part of the season will be painful but the platform/basis for the car will be better then what was scheduled to be completed some weeks ago. Sources- skymotori (mainly!) 

doppia tirante means double rod, according to google translate.

guys&girls, we will have both push and pull rod in the front suspension! :clap:  :lol: