549 replies to this topic

[red stick]

Oh, and in the "personalities" department, Gil de Ferran was present yesterday. And I saw more of Beaux Barfield in the Indycar paddock over the three days than I did when he was running the series.

[JHSingo]

Quick question: who's doing the thread for Long Beach? I wouldn't mind giving it a bash if no-one else is already doing it.

[paulb]

Quick question: who's doing the thread for Long Beach? I wouldn't mind giving it a bash if no-one else is already doing it.

 

Ding, ding, ding, Go FER IT!!!

[B Squared]

Robin Miller on the Indy Car fiasco at NOLA. I especially like this observation:

 

"Of the 47 laps of competition, 26 were run under caution. In a 105-minute race, only 31 minutes were green. On the flip side, the Pro Mazda kids ran Sunday morning in a driving rainstorm and put on a yellow-free clinic."

 

http://www.racer.com...-deserve-better

[Sheepmachine]

Congratulations? What did he actually do?? Congratulations on putting himself in a no win situation by not pitting. No-one could ever predict that they would waste all the laps away no bothering to go back green for about 54 consecutive times. Would you congratulate blindfold darts if someone happened to score the highest points?

Congratulations because he won the race?? He stayed out of trouble and his team made the right call on strategy, I don't see what there is to not congratulate on..... And for the record yes I would congratulate a blindfolded darts player if he scored the highest points. It's the natural, sporting thing to do.

[Dolph]

The part you don't see is getting all the recovery vehicles back to thier stations.  They aren't allowed to run counter circuit and have to run race direction back to their posts.  It was a bit of a clunker but that's how racing goes sometimes.  Under more optimum conditions it's doubtful Hinch, Jakes or Simona would have been in the top 10 let alone top 5.

 

I say have spare recovery vehicles that go out immediately to fill in the spots of the vehicles that left to clean up a mess. This way you reduce the racing donwtime buy a large margin buy just having a spare or two of each vehicle.
 

[JHSingo]

Ding, ding, ding, Go FER IT!!!

 

I'll see what I can come up with...

 

[AustinF1]

Robin Miller on the Indy Car fiasco at NOLA. I especially like this observation:

 

"Of the 47 laps of competition, 26 were run under caution. In a 105-minute race, only 31 minutes were green. On the flip side, the Pro Mazda kids ran Sunday morning in a driving rainstorm and put on a yellow-free clinic."

 

http://www.racer.com...-deserve-better

It's a great observation. It's not like the rain was the real problem. Even on dry circuits these guys go green, crash, SC, restart, crash, SC, restart, crash, SC..." ad nauseum.

[Option1]

Have to admit that I got jack of all the cautions and gave up on the race.  Stuck with MotoGP and, of all things, The Masters - together with WEC and all three bike classes practice, qualies, and races, it was a long weekend of sports.  Now the fact that I watched at least some of the race is one up on F1 where I didn't bother at all because for me, Shanghai is always a snoozefest.

 

One other criticism, I'm sorry, but Indycar is not doing itself any favours going to NOLA in the state that track is in.  It's nothing more than a club/track-day facility, and it shows.  Maybe they want to market themselves "down" to that demographic, but I wouldn't have thought so.  And I'm honestly not trying to disparage anyone with the "down", it's just when you think how flash/upmarket Long Beach is, then NOLA just strikes me as the wrong end of the spectrum.

 

Neil

[Prost1997T]

Even on dry circuits these guys go green, crash, SC, restart, crash, SC, restart, crash, SC..." ad nauseum.

Sorry, I call BS on that. Some statistics to prove my point

http://racing-refere...0_at_Mid-Ohio/O

http://racing-refere...ix_of_Alabama/O

http://racing-refere...Edmonton_Indy/O

http://racing-refere...onda_Indy_200/O

http://racing-refere...rix_of_Sonoma/O

http://racing-refere...ix_of_Alabama/O

http://racing-refere..._in_Detroit_1/O

http://racing-refere...0_at_Mid-Ohio/O

http://racing-refere...t._Petersburg/O

[AustinF1]

Sorry, I call BS on that. Some statistics to prove my point

http://racing-refere...0_at_Mid-Ohio/O

http://racing-refere...ix_of_Alabama/O

http://racing-refere...Edmonton_Indy/O

http://racing-refere...onda_Indy_200/O

http://racing-refere...rix_of_Sonoma/O

http://racing-refere...ix_of_Alabama/O

http://racing-refere..._in_Detroit_1/O

http://racing-refere...0_at_Mid-Ohio/O

http://racing-refere...t._Petersburg/O

Of course there will be exceptions. That's a  handful of races, mostly from 2012 & 2013. In 2014 there were an average of 20 or so SC laps in about 7-8 races. They seem to usually get a fair number of laps in at the beginning without too much problem. The big problem seems to be that once they have a crash, they just have a difficult time getting going again incident-free on restarts.

Edited by AustinF1, 13 April 2015 - 19:00.

[billm99uk]

I'll see what I can come up with...

 

 

I'm fine with anything that doesn't involve basketball...

[Scuderia312]

Why there was so many yellow flags? New aero to blame?

[AustinF1]

Why there was so many yellow flags? New aero to blame?

Faulty wheelnuts, imho.

[Watkins74]

Why there was so many yellow flags? New aero to blame?

 

A couple of reasons.

 

1. Inexperienced Drivers in rain in these cars

2. Rivers of water crossing the track

3. It was basically a marsh off the asphalt so you would get stuck

4. It is a track designed for rich people with expensive toys so the runoffs were huge. No way for a crane to reach over and remove cars like you typically can.

 

All those factors added up to a yellow flag circus. 

[Muppetmad]

It's a great observation. It's not like the rain was the real problem. Even on dry circuits these guys go green, crash, SC, restart, crash, SC, restart, crash, SC..." ad nauseum.

I agree with Prost that that isn't a particularly fair representation. Certainly yellows breed yellows quite often in IndyCars, but to make it out that what happened at NOLA is a frequent occurrence doesn't do the series any justice at all. I wouldn't follow the series if it was like this consistently.

 

Just from empirical analysis it's clear rain was the real problem here - at restarts most of the accidents were caused by people losing grip on wet patches with cold tyres. It was an unfortunate combination of circumstances which are certainly not representative of the status quo.

Edited by Muppetmad, 13 April 2015 - 19:10.

[Watkins74]

I agree with Prost that that isn't a particularly fair representation. Certainly yellows breed yellows quite often in IndyCars, but to make it out that what happened at NOLA is a frequent occurrence doesn't do the series any justice at all. I wouldn't follow the series if it was like this consistently.

 

Just from empirical analysis it's clear rain was the real problem here - at restarts most of the accidents were caused by people losing grip on wet patches with cold tyres. It was an unfortunate combination of circumstances which are certainly not representative of the status quo.

 

I'll disagree with you.   This wasn't a one off by any means. Indycar has had a fair number of crashfests especially on street races.

 

Long Beach (street race) is this weekend. Let's hope for a good show of racing and not carbon fiber.

[AustinF1]

I agree with Prost that that isn't a particularly fair representation. Certainly yellows breed yellows quite often in IndyCars, but to make it out that what happened at NOLA is a frequent occurrence doesn't do the series any justice at all. I wouldn't follow the series if it was like this consistently.

 

Just from empirical analysis it's clear rain was the real problem here - at restarts most of the accidents were caused by people losing grip on wet patches with cold tyres. It was an unfortunate combination of circumstances which are certainly not representative of the status quo.

I think it's fair. I've been complaining about this since way back last season, and posted as much in another thread before this race even took place. Things are usually fine until the first SC. Then it often quickly becomes unwatchable as these guys just can't seem to manage restarting without incidents, and it's usually really stupid stuff, like divebombing the inside of turn 1, closing the door on someone who's alongside, etc. I realize there were extenuating circumstances yesterday, but in the big picture it's just an exaggerated version of what's been happening for a while.

Edited by AustinF1, 13 April 2015 - 19:16.

[Muppetmad]

I'll disagree with you.   This wasn't a one off by any means. Indycar has had a fair number of crashfests especially on street races.

 

Long Beach (street race) is this weekend. Let's hope for a good show of racing and not carbon fiber.

No worries That's the nice thing about IndyCar threads, we can have all an opinion without being berated! I too hope for a cleaner race at Long Beach, although I can't say I'm holding my breath, given how often that final hairpin poses problems...

[HeadFirst]

I've already expressed my opinion elsewhere, so I'll just say I was very glad that DVR'ed the travesty and was able to FF through the yellows. Congrats to Hinch for staying out of trouble and his crew for putting him in position to win. Here's hoping for a more professional event at Long Beach.

[red stick]

Regarding Robin Miller, FWIW, Pro Mazda may have been a "clinic" but IMSA Prototype Lites, the last race yesterday morning before the skies opened, was a crashfest too, and was eventually subject to the rare red flag/checkers combo while the surviving cars sat stationary in the pit lane.  I think the bulk of the blame should be placed on the driver's inexperience, and I point particularly to Karam, Dracone, and Coletti.  On the flipside, that Chaves kid bears watching.

[jonpollak]

I'm fine with anything that doesn't involve basketball...Ice Hockey

FixedIt.

 

 

NOLA ROUND 2 results

(Lurkers in the top 2)

 

 

 

OVERALL AFTER ROUND 2

 

 

 

 

Onwards and upwards

Jp

[Sheepmachine]

FixedIt.



NOLA ROUND 2 results
(Lurkers in the top 2)




OVERALL AFTER ROUND 2





Onwards and upwards
Jp

I'm 11th for the 2nd round in a row. I'm nothing if not consistent.

[Peat]

Dracone nailing his crew guy:

Pretty brutal.

This guy even gives pay-drivers a bad name....

[paulb]

Its very cruel, JP, to post current #indyrivals standings.

[search]

It's a great observation. It's not like the rain was the real problem. Even on dry circuits these guys go green, crash, SC, restart, crash, SC, restart, crash, SC..." ad nauseum.

 

usually not on road courses though. But yes, yesterday's race was the worst I have seen for years - and the first one of the season was really bad already.

[AustinF1]

usually not on road courses though. But yes, yesterday's race was the worst I have seen for years - and the first one of the season was really bad already.

Actually, I don;t even watch the ovals. My observation was indeed about the road/street courses.

[AustinF1]

Dracone nailing his crew guy:

Pretty brutal.

This guy even gives pay-drivers a bad name....

Why was he out there? Isn't that what the sign board thingy is for? Hope he's ok. Anyone hear how he's doing?

Edited by AustinF1, 13 April 2015 - 22:35.

[Sheepmachine]

Why was he out there? Isn't that what the sign board thingy is for? Hope he's ok. Anyone hear how he's doing?

Just 6 stitches in his leg apparently, he is very lucky. https://www.facebook...879828858731519
Dracone isn't taking the criticism well on twitter.

[Youichi]

I'll disagree with you.   This wasn't a one off by any means. Indycar has had a fair number of crashfests especially on street races.

 

Long Beach (street race) is this weekend. Let's hope for a good show of racing and not carbon fiber.

 

My brother was over to watch the MotoGP, and commented "Isn't there and Indycar race on ?" to which I replied, "I stopped watching and it always seems to be adverts and yellows".

 

I fired up a stream on my laptop, and it was showing an advert, then it came back to the race and they were under yellow....    My brother conceeded I had a point.

[Myrvold]

After finally watching the... race... I still don't get why RHR couldn't go a tiny bit more to the left "I had no more room and Bourdais was beside me" he says, watching a replay showing around 2 car widths between them...

[Afterburner]

After finally watching the... race... I still don't get why RHR couldn't go a tiny bit more to the left "I had no more room and Bourdais was beside me" he says, watching a replay showing around 2 car widths between them...

My sister sent me a fantastic demotivational poster about this in which someone indicated all the space he actually had with MS Paint, but alas I can't find it.

[Disgrace]

Pagenaud retweeted it on his feed.

 

[Donka]

Have to admit that I got jack of all the cautions and gave up on the race.  Stuck with MotoGP and, of all things, The Masters - together with WEC and all three bike classes practice, qualies, and races, it was a long weekend of sports.  Now the fact that I watched at least some of the race is one up on F1 where I didn't bother at all because for me, Shanghai is always a snoozefest.

 

One other criticism, I'm sorry, but Indycar is not doing itself any favours going to NOLA in the state that track is in.  It's nothing more than a club/track-day facility, and it shows.  Maybe they want to market themselves "down" to that demographic, but I wouldn't have thought so.  And I'm honestly not trying to disparage anyone with the "down", it's just when you think how flash/upmarket Long Beach is, then NOLA just strikes me as the wrong end of the spectrum.

 

Neil

  Obviously don't spend much time in LB.  Armed guards inside supermarkets and store 1 block off the circuit, psycho-babbling dudes asking for money and beer, people threatening to kill you at the gas station.  

 

Yeah Long Beach is flash alright. 

[whitewaterMkII]

  Obviously don't spend much time in LB.  Armed guards inside supermarkets and store 1 block off the circuit, psycho-babbling dudes asking for money and beer, people threatening to kill you at the gas station.  

 

Yeah Long Beach is flash alright. 

c'mon man, it's gone glamour. would you rather the porn shops were open on race day on Ocean when like when F1 ran there?

disclaimer: i've been going since it was F5000

[whitewaterMkII]

Pagenaud retweeted it on his feed.

 

sweet

[Marc Sproule]

c'mon man, it's gone glamour. would you rather the porn shops were open on race day on Ocean when like when F1 ran there?

disclaimer: i've been going since it was F5000

 

the pic in the link is from '82 but it was a typical sight at lb.

 

https://www.flickr.c...N03/14653542970

 

unfortunately i don't have ones from '75 and '76 on flickr. they're buried in my archives somewhere. one sticks out in my mind...a marjoe gartner-type. carrying a sign similar to the one in the link. wild-eyed, dressed in a suit, bible in hand, standing in front of a porn theater on ocean.

 

i loved that event in the early days.

 

here's my lb  album......

 

https://www.flickr.c...57633205413569/

 

here's all my albums........

 

https://www.flickr.c...81980@N03/sets/

[Vitesse2]

Its very cruel, JP, to post current #indyrivals standings.

I beg to differ

[Victor_RO]

Penalties after NOLA:

 

http://www.indycar.c...lties-Announced

 

Regular stuff, fines for teams' infringements on pitstops. But then we come to driver penalties:

 

- Marco fined $500 for not keeping his visor down during a pitstop

- DRACONE fined $10k and on probation for 6 races after running down his pit crew member

- RHR penalized 3 points and on probation for 3 races after running Pagenaud off the road.

[Prost1997T]

Depending on how the tiebreaker works, that would drop RHR down to as low as 17th in the standings.

[Muppetmad]

Penalties after NOLA:

 

http://www.indycar.c...lties-Announced

 

Regular stuff, fines for teams' infringements on pitstops. But then we come to driver penalties:

 

- Marco fined $500 for not keeping his visor down during a pitstop

- DRACONE fined $10k and on probation for 6 races after running down his pit crew member

- RHR penalized 3 points and on probation for 3 races after running Pagenaud off the road.

Good stuff, those are fair penalties. I'm glad RHR has been penalised, because it was a needless incident and it's the sort of thing that could put jeopardise Pagenaud's title challenge.

 

As for Dracone, I've seen the video of his pit incident. He was going way too fast, it's a miracle the guy wasn't more seriously injured or that more people weren't struck by the car.

Edited by Muppetmad, 15 April 2015 - 16:54.

[paulb]

the pic in the link is from '82 but it was a typical sight at lb.

 

https://www.flickr.c...N03/14653542970

 

unfortunately i don't have ones from '75 and '76 on flickr. they're buried in my archives somewhere. one sticks out in my mind...a marjoe gartner-type. carrying a sign similar to the one in the link. wild-eyed, dressed in a suit, bible in hand, standing in front of a porn theater on ocean.

 

i loved that event in the early days.

 

here's my lb  album......

 

https://www.flickr.c...57633205413569/

 

here's all my albums........

 

https://www.flickr.c...81980@N03/sets/

 

Marc, your LBGP stuff is fantastic. Were there ever any turns a hairball as the 90 degree right from Ocean down to Linden? Talk about blind...

[Andrew Hope]

God dammit, DRACONE (all caps from now on, right?). Do that same **** three times and Todd Phillips is dead meat more often than not. I never know how to judge this kind of stuff, though. The cognitive dissonance!

 

Left brain: "****, looks like DRACONE went full ****** in a way Graham Rahal would be proud of there"

Right brain: "Plenty of drivers considered greats of the sport have cocked up in pit lane, maybe it was Frank's bad luck it looked so dumb but we all would've binned it too?"

Left brain: "If the conditions are that bad, why didn't DRACONE take that into consideration and cool it a bit before he pitted. Better safe than sorry/killing your pit crew!"

Right brain: "If the conditions are that bad, why didn't IndyCar ensure the pit lane was clear of standing water?"

Left brain: "That ain't IndyCar's job! He was going way too fast, he penalty is righteous!"

Right brain: "How many times do other drivers **** up like this but it wasn't caught on camera?"

Left brain: "Why do you spend all your life worrying about pay drivers in MindyCar? Why don't you do something with your life?"

Right brain: "Shut up you're stupid bro".

Edited by Andrew Hope, 15 April 2015 - 17:29.

[Andrew Hope]

the pic in the link is from '82 but it was a typical sight at lb.

 

https://www.flickr.c...N03/14653542970

 

unfortunately i don't have ones from '75 and '76 on flickr. they're buried in my archives somewhere. one sticks out in my mind...a marjoe gartner-type. carrying a sign similar to the one in the link. wild-eyed, dressed in a suit, bible in hand, standing in front of a porn theater on ocean.

 

i loved that event in the early days.

 

here's my lb  album......

 

https://www.flickr.c...57633205413569/

 

here's all my albums........

 

https://www.flickr.c...81980@N03/sets/

 

Your Flickr is always hot ****. I love those mid/late 70s Formula Atlantic cars, something about the look of them looks so cool, drives me crazy.

 

 

And the tracks they raced on... sometimes I just ache for all the racing I missed in the 70s and 80s. There's a FA76 rFactor mod that's a ton of fun, I wish I had more time to play it.

[Marc Sproule]

Marc, your LBGP stuff is fantastic. Were there ever any turns a hairball as the 90 degree right from Ocean down to Linden? Talk about blind...

 

thank you.

 

i would think that in the days...'90s...when the champ cars had c. 900 hp almost any turn in a concrete tunnel would be pretty hairball.

 

i would imagine this turn...can't remember the #....made the cars do this was pretty hairy.

 

https://www.flickr.c...N03/14413070551

[paulb]

I think that was the right at the end of the backstraight. There were bumps right at the apex. It usually made for race time drama.

[Marc Sproule]

I think that was the right at the end of the backstraight. There were bumps right at the apex. It usually made for race time drama

 

correct you are.

[whitewaterMkII]

I think that was the right at the end of the backstraight. There were bumps right at the apex. It usually made for race time drama.

It's the back straight now, but back in the day it was turn 1 when the pits for F1 were on Ocean. It was called Linden Leap, the short run down the hill and then the right left turn up into the hairpin, which in the days of F1 used to sweep back up to the top of the hill before the run down Shoreline. We've always sat in the same place, even after they eliminated the Linden Leap and it's where we will be again in a day or so.

One of my most memorable moments there was when Piquet stuffed it at the bottom of that hill during a practice session, he then climbed the wall and sat with about 10 or so of us for the rest of the session and explained all the different lines people were trying. In the days of CART, Carpentier also sat with us during an Atlantic race to see how they were managing that set of turns. It's also a great spot to watch the hoi polloi and celebs from, the high end sponsor suites are in that section. Great shots Mark!

Edited by whitewaterMkII, 16 April 2015 - 04:52.

[whitewaterMkII]

Your Flickr is always hot ****. I love those mid/late 70s Formula Atlantic cars, something about the look of them looks so cool, drives me crazy.

 

 

And the tracks they raced on... sometimes I just ache for all the racing I missed in the 70s and 80s. There's a FA76 rFactor mod that's a ton of fun, I wish I had more time to play it.

We have couple of private tracks nearby, a couple of years ago I was seriously looking for a Vintage Atlantic car to store out there and thrash around with, but the spares are few and far between, and that size tire costs a small fortune to replace and from the people I talked with they said to figure on two sets a weekend, they only last 150 miles tops a set. That put paid to that!

The wife and I just plunked down some big coin on a Deisel pusher Coach, so I guess my mid-life crisis for a race car is done and over.

However....Talladega here we come!

[Prost1997T]

In-car theater from the race: