205 replies to this topic

[chrcol]

Is really bad this year, should they and can they rollback to the 2014 engine?

[TheRacingElf]

Is really bad this year, should they and can they rollback to the 2014 engine?

And be even slower than they are now?

[pdac]

And be even slower than they are now?

 

To finish first, first you must finish.

[Tourgott]

They have to use the engine specs from February 1st. At least that is how it worked last year.

[Jon83]

They deserve all the criticism they are getting. They wanted these changes and have fallen way short. 

 

Today's failures couldn't have came at a worse time. 

[chrcol]

And be even slower than they are now?

they need to finish first, and they said driveability was better last year.

[HoldenRT]

Slow and unreliable is always a good combination.

[Gyno]

If they keep this up they will not be In F1 for much longer.

[garagetinkerer]

Hey, i'm sure some will tell us that it is not Renault's fault, but instead it is the hubris of Horner and RBR.

[pdac]

I can't help thinking that, with Red Bull slating them consinuously last season, they have rush through developments before they've been tested properly - and lack of reliability and drivability is the result. I don't get the feeling that they are calmly working through the issues.

[Timstr11]

People should just give Renault a decent chance to recover.
Why should everything in this day and age happen *instantly*?

[SenorSjon]

Because some of the Renault drivers are on their third engine after three races? Verstappen's engine almost expired in Malaysia due to a water leak. Ricciardo is also on engine number three and Kvyat probably as well after what happened today.

[Afterburner]

I can't help thinking that, with Red Bull slating them consinuously last season, they have rush through developments before they've been tested properly - and lack of reliability and drivability is the result. I don't get the feeling that they are calmly working through the issues.

And this is somehow Red Bull's fault?

 

Renault's engine sucks, quite frankly, and they've no excuses. They wanted these regulations, knew a long time coming that they'd be facing stiff competition from Mercedes with these regulations, and went from hero to zero as soon as they got them. If it weren't for Honda, they'd be the worst of the field by a considerable margin--and Honda seems to be taking things in stride and improving appropriately. And I don't care what anyone says--I'd rather have the likes of Horner and Red Bull breathing down my neck to get a better engine built than the likes of McLaren and Ron Dennis.

 

Somehow I feel like Honda will be on top of things next year; funny how virtually nobody has/had that faith in Renault. Red Bull's ire is justified, I think.

[Jejking]

Renault is having problems, but Red Bull experiences more problems than STR. That would mean that Red Bulls chassis is exaggerating the problems.

[pdac]

And this is somehow Red Bull's fault?

 

Renault's engine sucks, quite frankly, and they've no excuses. They wanted these regulations, knew a long time coming that they'd be facing stiff competition from Mercedes with these regulations, and went from hero to zero as soon as they got them. If it weren't for Honda, they'd be the worst of the field by a considerable margin--and Honda seems to be taking things in stride and improving appropriately. And I don't care what anyone says--I'd rather have the likes of Horner and Red Bull breathing down my neck to get a better engine built than the likes of McLaren and Ron Dennis.

 

Somehow I feel like Honda will be on top of things next year; funny how virtually nobody has/had that faith in Renault. Red Bull's ire is justified, I think.

 

When you know your engines suck you don't need someone continually telling you. What you need is to be left alone, or better still, offered help to fix it.

[A3]

I seriously think that if you put a Ferrari engine in that STR, it would be able to outperform Williams and battle with Ferrari themselves.

Anyway, Renault accepted the blame and promised they would work hard to recover. All there is to it I'm afraid....

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

How many development tokens do they have left in hand relative to Mercedes, Ferrari and Honda?

[emmanuelrubi]

So this week another note on "Redbull treathen to quit F1" follow by a "Renault to be (more/less) conservative for Bahrain" ending on a:

A) 3 Renault engines blown during Bahrain GP because Renault were less conservative

B) Renault powered cars were very slow during Bahrain GP because Renault were more conservative.

Better get use to this for 2015 season.

[Gyno]

 

Somehow I feel like Honda will be on top of things next year; funny how virtually nobody has/had that faith in Renault. Red Bull's ire is justified, I think.

 

I think they will be on top of things by mid season.

They already made huge improvements.

 

Renault should be on pair with Ferrari as they had a stronger engine last year than Ferrari.

But it seems like they took a few steps backwards instead of going forward while Ferrari took a huge leap forward.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

I don't know how Renault can mess up the SECOND year so much. The first year looks like a blinding success compared to now. I mean last seasons PU wasn't great but at least STR in particular still had decent top speeds. Now they have fallen further back despite them saying they were going to be more aggressive.

 

I wonder what the STR could achieve with the 2015 Ferrari PU in the back or the Mercedes for that matter. The chassis seems to be like the 5th best or very close to Williams, I doubt Williams would finish ahead of STR if they had the same Renault PU.

[chrcol]

the on board when vers engine blew sounded really bad.

[Redback]

I don't know how Renault can mess up the SECOND year so much. The first year looks like a blinding success compared to now. I mean last seasons PU wasn't great but at least STR in particular still had decent top speeds. Now they have fallen further back despite them saying they were going to be more aggressive.

 

I wonder what the STR could achieve with the 2015 Ferrari PU in the back or the Mercedes for that matter. The chassis seems to be like the 5th best or very close to Williams, I doubt Williams would finish if they had the same Renault PU.

Fixed...

[garagetinkerer]

It took whole of 3 minutes from my post to have one which slates RBR.

[Reemann]

[...] funny how virtually nobody has/had that faith in Renault.

That is all thanks to Mr. Horner. His incessant bad mouthing of Renault made everyone forget that Renault is the winningest engine manufacturer in F1 in the past three decades. Renault needs to reconsider how much money they want to invest in F1. They messed up before (the 111° V10 for example) but they came back and won championships. They know how to build engines.

 

I can't help but think that this is also an "image" related thing. A €100k Mercedes can have 10 different technical issues but everyone will attribute that lack of reliability to bad luck. A Renault Clio has a loose screw in the trunk and it's a cheap piece of ****.

 

I doubt Williams would finish ahead of STR if they had the same Renault PU.

Funny that the last time Williams won a race/championship, they were using a Renault engine. Switching to Renault might be a good idea for Williams.

Edited by Reemann, 12 April 2015 - 21:22.

[turssi]

Red Bull to change engine mid-season?

Would be a great PR victory for the PU manufacturer that pulls it off, be it Ferc or Merc.

[Jejking]

Red Bull to change engine mid-season?

Would be a great PR victory for the PU manufacturer that pulls it off, be it Ferc or Merc.

Bullshit. Impossible.

[Knot]

Slow and unreliable is always a good combination.

 

It's working for McLaren!

[pdac]

It took whole of 3 minutes from my post to have one which slates RBR.

 

Well you can see the different reactions engine partners have had from Red Bull and McLaren. Ron say something like "we're not where we want to be with the engine and we need to work with our partner to sort this out". Christian says something like "It's not good enough and Renault need to get this sorted". I'm sure Ron has not been as polite when talking to the Honda team in private, but that's in private.

[pdac]

Red Bull to change engine mid-season?

Would be a great PR victory for the PU manufacturer that pulls it off, be it Ferc or Merc.

 

Exactly which PU do you think they might be able to get hold of? Maybe a 2014 spec PU from Ferrari, like Manor Marussia?

[Knot]

Well you can see the different reactions engine partners have had from Red Bull and McLaren. Ron say something like "we're not where we want to be with the engine and we need to work with our partner to sort this out". Christian says something like "It's not good enough and Renault need to get this sorted". I'm sure Ron has not been as polite when talking to the Honda team in private, but that's in private.

 

The whole RBR team have big mouths, especially Helmut Marko. But then, with that smarmy unproffesional CA at the head of Renault Sport, they deserve all the flak they are getting from RBR.

[warp]

It's working for McLaren!

 

Yeah, but they have taken the high road and binned this season for the sake of development. Which is the correct approach, IMHO.

 

Horner/RBR need to stop bitching, bin the season, take a deep breath, work with Renault and get their act together for next season.

 

Yes, it sucks. But this is where they are. 

[baddog]

People should just give Renault a decent chance to recover.
Why should everything in this day and age happen *instantly*?

 

Because it is not a new engine. You will notice most people giving Honda a lot of leeway to improve.. Renault should be where Ferrari are,  not looking like they are doing the first test runs for a new engine formula.

[Redback]

Yeah, but they have taken the high road and binned this season for the sake of development. Which is the correct approach, IMHO.

Horner/RBR need to stop bitching, bin the season, take a deep breath, work with Renault and get their act together for next season.

Yes, it sucks. But this is where they are.

In fairness to Red Bull, they did that last year.
This year Renault were supposed to make progress and be competitive, - as Ferrari have proven is possible.
Two consecutive years of ****ing-up is unacceptable. Red Bull have every right to be publicly critical and if Renault weren't so arrogant, they'd be ashamed of their performance.

Edited by Redback, 13 April 2015 - 02:11.

[lbennie]

I can't help thinking that, with Red Bull slating them consinuously last season, they have rush through developments before they've been tested properly - and lack of reliability and drivability is the result. I don't get the feeling that they are calmly working through the issues.

 

10 posts until someone blamed RBR, i'm impressed

[garagetinkerer]

That is all thanks to Mr. Horner. His incessant bad mouthing of Renault made everyone forget that Renault is the winningest engine manufacturer in F1 in the past three decades. Renault needs to reconsider how much money they want to invest in F1. They messed up before (the 111° V10 for example) but they came back and won championships. They know how to build engines.

 

I can't help but think that this is also an "image" related thing. A €100k Mercedes can have 10 different technical issues but everyone will attribute that lack of reliability to bad luck. A Renault Clio has a loose screw in the trunk and it's a cheap piece of ****.

 

Funny that the last time Williams won a race/championship, they were using a Renault engine. Switching to Renault might be a good idea for Williams.

Oh well, but that is when the power gap wasn't as pronounced. For Ferrari it were much easier, as they knew that the design compromises they chose, prioritising reliability too much, it didn't work, so they knew which way to go. For Renault, reliability was a problem last year, and they lacked performance to start with. Now this year, the gap seems to possibly have shrunk a bit, but reliability has gone down the toilet proper.

[garagetinkerer]

Well you can see the different reactions engine partners have had from Red Bull and McLaren. Ron say something like "we're not where we want to be with the engine and we need to work with our partner to sort this out". Christian says something like "It's not good enough and Renault need to get this sorted". I'm sure Ron has not been as polite when talking to the Honda team in private, but that's in private.

LMAO. Honda is bringing money to the table... what is Dennis supposed to say?Is he going to say F*** right off to iirc what was rumoured to be about $200 million? You clearly don't understand the difference between the situation between the two teams. Why don't you read how Mercedes was being asked to get their act together when engines were going up in smoke in the early naughties.

 

Renault were going to get the flack for a couple of reasons:

1, they already have a year under their belt with new engines

2, they haven't exactly owned upto much unless they were criticised. Heck, they have infact blamed RBR for their failures. I don't quite know what RBR are responsible for, that is besides giving them some general directives on expected performance. Which they did with the V8's and when Renault got it right, RBR and Renault did quite well.

 

On the other hand, you don't see Williams and Lotus complaining about how they miss all that Renault power. Oh yes, they are on Mercedes power. What is telling is the fact that Lotus haven't finished much, nevermind points, but they still aren't complaining about the reliability or power. Would you like to guess why?

[garagetinkerer]

10 posts until someone blamed RBR, i'm impressed

Apparently, people think that Renault building bad/ not good enough/ crap engines is fault of Horner and RBR. May be Horner and RBR should buy flowers for Renault execs, draw a bath, may be a candle-light dinner. I don't know, i'm just guessing. 

[Myrvold]

2,Which they did with the V8's and when Renault got it right, RBR and Renault did quite well.

 

Still RBR complained though.

[garagetinkerer]

Still RBR complained though.

Read the above posts... and do note the 'when.' Originally Renault didn't meet their targets, and so the complaining from a customer. Once they got it right, RBR was crediting them everytime they won. Oh, no one speaks about how they thanked their partner Renault, instead only the criticism is remembered. Such is life...

[GreenMachine]

Renault must be pretty pleased about the Infiniti branding over the last couple of days.

[SenorSjon]

The leading Red Bull was full of Renault branding...

[SanDiegoGo]

one of the driving forces behind these hybrid power units and they seem to have **** the bed very badly. question is why and how. if they were so confident of these new power units why are they the worst?

[Fatgadget]

10 posts until someone blamed RBR, i'm impressed

 

10 posts until someone blamed RBR, i'm impressed

I take it you are being sarky? If not, Yeah it is indeed a shame RBR slagging off Renault in the public domain instead of closing ranks and working together with your partner ala McLaren and Honda. 

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

I am really expecting to see RedBull challenging Williams and Ferrari after first round of power unit upgrades.

[JosD]

Renault and Red Bull will work hard to optimize things as much as possible, however I think it is safe to assume that that could take a while. In Spain RBR will introduce a new package and from Europe onward Renault will also address some of the issues. On the bright side Renault has the most room to improve of all engine manufacturers, so the situation should definitely get better.

[pdac]

10 posts until someone blamed RBR, i'm impressed

 

My point is that the situation is what it is. I don't blame RBR for Renault producing a poor product but RBR need Renault to improve it. I blame Renault for the product, but I blame both for not sorting it out by now. And, what's more, I continue to blame both because I don't think it'll be sorted out by the start of next season either (for the same reasons).

 

They both need to forget what has happened and form a strategy (without finger pointing) as to how to move forward.

Edited by pdac, 13 April 2015 - 11:18.

[v@sh]

RBR definitely don't have the best chassis but the Renault PU is just rubbish at the moment.

 

Remember at the start of the season, Renault said that their strategy was to concentrate on reliability and not performance - hence why they didn't make a massive jump like Ferrari in terms of peak power - and yet here we are, how many Renault engines have already failed? You can see why RBR are pissed off as much as Renault are with RBR. For all the fake PR Renault keep bringing out, it sounds as if Renault don't know how to fix the PU themselves.

 

And to those that think RBR and Renault are one and the same and that RBR should fix the PU, RBR build the chassis, they don't make engines. If that was the case, RBR would have already separated and built a PU themselves instead of sticking with Renault.

[Arundo]

I do hope that Renault can get these issues fixed and spend the tokens they have left to get the engine both faster and more reliable. But I'm a bit afraid that by the time Renault has the new engine ready both Red Bull and Toro Rosso face the engine penalties.

[Risil]

one of the driving forces behind these hybrid power units and they seem to have shit the bed very badly. question is why and how. if they were so confident of these new power units why are they the worst?

 

Perhaps they're not spending enough money. Remember when Renault pushed hard for the engine development freeze at the end of 2006, and then Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW and co found the "reliability" loopholes they needed to upgrade their engines regardless?

 

One thing we know about F1 is that the cost-cutting, businessman's ethos will never win. Draw what conclusions you like.

Edited by Risil, 13 April 2015 - 12:18.

[RedBaron]

They have tokens coming out of their arse. They'll be fine and next year even better.