67 replies to this topic

[noikeee]

It explains why Prost made an extremely rare error in the race with a divebomb on Piquet, when the race was for the taking.  And why Renault were never wholly committed to supporting Prost for the remainder of the season - even refusing to appeal the Brabham jungle juice that was very illegal.

 

Although Prost's brilliance can be seen by Cheever's performance.  It's hard to believe, but in 1983 he was very much a coming man.  He had just marmelized Lafitte at Ligier - the same Lafitte who came oh so close to winning the 1981 title - and his record at Tyrrell in 1981 compared to Alboreto was in a different universe.  Yet at Renault Prost was seconds clear per lap in pretty much every race.

 

Totally offtopic, but wasn't Alboreto a rookie though? He had some pretty spectacular results with his Tyrrells later on (2 wins), so I'm a little surprised to read that Cheever had whooped him earlier as I was unaware of that. How highly rated was Alboreto by the time Ferrari poached him from Tyrrell?

[SB]

Senna and Derek Warwick, Senna was already pissed off and the guy hadn't even joined yet

In this sense you should also count Piquet Snr and Senna Snr (1984)   

[OvDrone]

I can imagine Prost and Senna having a pint, after all has been said. As I can Piquet and Mansell, Hamilton and Alonso. But there are three pairings I cannot comprehend that happening:

 

Jones / Reutemann, Pironi / Villeneuve, Vettel / Webber. These are pure animosity.

 

I don't know the story with Arnoux and Prost. Must read on.

Edited by OvDrone, 21 April 2015 - 01:28.

[D1rtyHarry]

Any teammate to Rubens Barichello?

 

He was taught by his parens, give him equaul, and he will give equal. Not in 2009 he didn't :

Edited by D1rtyHarry, 21 April 2015 - 01:47.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

The 1973 Shadow team had George Follmer and Jackie Oliver. To say there was animosity is an understatement. George had a temper, and their relationship culminated in George popping Jackie in the nose at Mosport in 1974. I was in the garage, it happened.

 

 

George was the better driver, but Oliver had the connections.

 

Follmer and Oliver also teamed for the 1974 Can-Am season in the Shadow DN4 cars. Now a lackluster series with only five races, Follmer finished second to Oliver in the first three races, twice won the pole and twice set the race’s fastest lap. At Mid-Ohio, Roger Penske pulled the Porsche 917/30 out of mothballs and entered for it Brian Redman, who easily won the pole, followed by Follmer and Oliver.

Because of a damp track and Donohue’s choice of hand-grooved tires, which were not working, Redman played it cautious and followed the duo running nose-to-tail in their black cars. We’ll let Redman narrate the story from his front-row view:

“The first heat race was run under wet conditions, which I managed to win by conserving the tires as the track dried. However, it looked like it would be wet again for the start of the final and I asked Mark what would happen to the handling if we grooved the slicks, and the track dried out. ‘Nothing’,” he replied.

“I took the lead, but the two Shadows were very close. Early in the race, coming over the ‘hump’ at the start of the back straight, I opened the throttle a fraction too soon. Instantly, the car snapped sideways and whilst I was ‘sorting it out’ both Follmer and Jackie went past.

“I now sat behind them watching a tremendous duel which terminated when George tried to make an impossible pass braking for the 90-degree right-hander at Turn 7. He hit poor Jackie right in the door, sending him sideways. Unfortunately for Follmer, his Shadow was too badly damaged to continue. After returning to the pits and flinging his helmet to the ground, he immediately left the track in a less-than congenial mood!”

“I knew I was faster than Jackie, especially at Mid-Ohio,” Follmer recalls, “and it wasn’t the first time he’d blocked me. If I could just pass Jackie, then Brian could worry about him, because Brian and the 917/30 were who we had to focus on, not each other.”

 

Follmer hoofed it back to the pits to have a squinty-eyed, arm-waving conversation with Don Nichols. According to the press notes, exactly two minutes after Follmer arrived in the pits, his rental car was off the track premises and headed down the highway. “I honestly can’t remember if I got out of my driver’s suit in the paddock, or in the car while I was driving,” he laughs.

http://georgefollmer...ts.com/bio.html

 

 

Follmer on the inside attempting to get past Oliver. No love lost.

Edited by BlinkyMcSquinty, 21 April 2015 - 04:00.

[teejay]

Alonso and Hamilton wasn't that bad.

 

You can see it in their current day dealings.

 

Alonso vs Ron Dennis 2007 however...

 

And the drivers/team had blame in regards to the title.

 

Leaving Lewis out in China - disgusting decision.

 

Alonso crashing in Japan was his own doing but the rain was woeful.

[Jackmancer]

Musso, Hawthorn and Collins, at Ferrari.

 

Hawthorn and Collins had a pact, to never really push eachother, Musso got in and challenged them. Within a year, all three where dead.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

Musso, Hawthorn and Collins, at Ferrari.

 

Hawthorn and Collins had a pact, to never really push eachother, Musso got in and challenged them. Within a year, all three where dead.

Yes, that was a sordid affair and one criticism against Enzo Ferrari.

 

Many years after Musso's death, Fiamma Breschi, Musso's girlfriend at the time of his death, revealed the nature of Musso's rivalry with fellow team Ferrari drivers Mike Hawthorn and Collins in a television documentary, The Secret Life of Enzo Ferrari. Breschi recalled that the antagonism between the Musso and the two English drivers, Mike Hawthorn and Peter Collins, encouraged all three to take more risks:

"The Englishmen (Hawthorn and Collins) had an agreement," she says. "Whichever of them won, they would share the winnings equally. It was the two of them against Luigi, who was not part of the agreement. Strength comes in numbers, and they were united against him. This antagonism was actually favourable rather than damaging to Ferrari. The faster the drivers went, the more likely it was that a Ferrari would win." Breschi related that at the time of his death, Musso was in debt, and thus winning the French Grand Prix (traditionally the largest monetary prize of the season) was all-important to him.

Within a year, Collins and Hawthorn were also dead, and Breschi could not suppress a feeling of release. "I had hated them both," she said, "first because I was aware of certain facts that were not right, and also because when I came out of the hospital and went back to the hotel, I found them in the square outside the hotel, laughing and playing a game of football with an empty beer-can. So when they died, too, it was liberating for me. Otherwise I would have had unpleasant feelings towards them for ever. This way I could find a sense of peace."

[OvDrone]

I know that story. Horrible. I am not a fan of the whole 1958 season.

[ensign14]

Not sure how much stock one should put in a woman who says she was glad to see two men die.  Incidentally Musso tried to get Collins in a Formula 2 car that weekend and when they turned up for the race Tavoni directed Collins to a Dino.  Hawthorn threatened to strike unless Collins were un-demoted. 

 

But of course in those days life was more fleeting for drivers...

[Dunc]

For me it has to be Alonso and Hamilton in 2007.  The team lost out on the WCC and WDC because of bad relations between the pair and the effect that had on the team.  It's not surprising when you put a 25-year-old on a high from being the youngest-ever double WDC and a 22-year-old rookie capable of matching him in arguably the best car of the year that things went a bit pear-shaped.  If you put them both together today in the same situation I doubt you would have the same trouble, though it would be tense.

 

Piquet and Mansell would also be up there because they lost the title for Williams in 1986 with their rivalry playing a part in this defeat though Piquet's win in 1987 maybe makes up for that.

[CSquared]

Not sure how much stock one should put in a woman who says she was glad to see two men die.  Incidentally Musso tried to get Collins in a Formula 2 car that weekend and when they turned up for the race Tavoni directed Collins to a Dino.  Hawthorn threatened to strike unless Collins were un-demoted. 

 

But of course in those days life was more fleeting for drivers...

I don't know the situation or the woman and can't say if her beliefs were justified, but she believed these two men betrayed, conspired against, and indirectly caused the death of her significant other. If you ignore the fact that these two men are heroes of our sport, her feelings seem pretty understandable.

[ensign14]

Not really.  It wasn't Hawthorn and Collins that caused Musso to get into bed with dodgy gamblers (as is the rumour).  Problem for Musso was he just wasn't as good as the other two...

[TheSnowman]

Hawthorn needed the prize money though just as much. Musso had confided in Collins about his debt and Collins then talked to Hawthorn about letting Musso win. However Hawthorn refused not out of selfishness, but because he needed the prize money to pay the mother of his lovechild in maintenance. Hawhthorn was actually deeply affected by Musso death

Edited by TheSnowman, 23 April 2015 - 14:13.

[Baddoer]

Webber and Rosberg were definitely not best friends in 2006 from what I recall.

[John B]

Not quite on the level of some of the other disputes mentioned but Arnoux and Tambay had some tensions in late 1983 after a couple of aggressive moves by Rene. No coincidence that this boiled over during the time when he asserted himself with a late season title bid and a seat was on the line with Alboreto appointed for 1984.

[Risil]

Mat Mladin and Ben Spies had a rare level of hatred for each other back when AMA Superbike was second only to MotoGP. John Kocinski didn't geton with Aaron Slight when they were both riding RC45s, but you could probably say that about anyone he worked with.

Edited by Risil, 23 April 2015 - 21:01.

[Spillage]

The usually cerebral Nick Heidfeld had a few problems with Jean Alesi during their time at Prost: http://www.grandprix...ns/ns02593.html