81 replies to this topic

[MensRea]

Turrini writes about his memories of 2011 Barcelona and subsequent departure of Aldo Costa as the beginning of blame game, decimations and the decline of Ferrari.

 

http://blog.quotidia...ldo-costa-2011/

 

"While writing my comments, I was struck by an intuition.

 

"This is the beginning of the end of a certain Ferrari, one that won. In which there is a technician changed the manner of a football coach. It does not work well in F1. It can not work well. Unless you come from other worlds, other cultures and discovering the F1 suddenly ..

 

In addition, when you start with the logic of the blame game, well, it's an invitation to the gradual decimation. And are you sure that sooner or later it's up to you.

 

Indeed, to you. I said exactly this to my brother Montezemolo and Domenicali.

 

There was no need of Nostradamus to understand that the virus was spreading. I always had a suspicion about its origin (of the virus). But I keep it."

 

So while it is true that there is credit due for many that left last year, it required the departure of those and Mattiacci, Marchionne, Allison and finally Arrivabene to get the team into the shape it is today.

 

Just wondering what the "origin of the virus" inside Ferrari was...

BIB - John Elkann and Fiat ? Seriously can't thinking of someone with more influence.

[Jvr]

BIB - John Elkann and Fiat ? Seriously can't thinking of someone with more influence.

I cannot see Elkann been involved with firing of Costa, directly at least. But I guess it is possible he started pressurising Montezemolo and that created the blame culture Turrini is referring to. However it still sounds rather unlikely since only the previous year the team almost won the WDC so Montezemolo starting the heads rolling game due to pressure from above seems not very plausible.

Edited by Jvr, 25 April 2015 - 14:43.

[MensRea]

I cannot see Elkann been involved with firing of Costa, directly at least. But I guess it is possible he started pressurising Montezemolo and that created the blame culture Turrini is referring to. However it still sounds rather unlikely since only the previous year the team almost won the WDC so Montezemolo starting the heads rolling game due to pressure from above seems not very plausible.

 

No , not that of Costa i agree.

I also don't think that Montezemolo was fired either , but rather "transferred" to Alitalia (which was rumoured quite a few months before Montezemolo actually left).

The appointment of Marchionne , Fiat man , would suggest Elkann (or his group) behind some of this re-shuffling for lack of a better word.

That was my line of thinking anyway...

[oetzi]

The important thing is that Ferrari is back in the game. And Vettel. And Kimmi. A lot of people we thought were off the boil are suddenly right back at the front.

Sadly, Mattiachi has been a Ferrari man for 20 years, and was not really given a fair chance. Instead he was made a scapegoat and shuffled completely out of the company. After 20 years of being a faithful Ferrari man, showing him the door with no ceremony was a pretty shabby way to treat him.

I'm sure he was very well rewarded for doing the cleaning.

Edited by oetzi, 25 April 2015 - 21:21.

[AlexS]

Ah! that term again! Blame Game. 

 

Blame Game the term that is applied when a change doesn't work. If it works it is instead called Reform, Revolution, Evolution, Cleaning etc...

[BoschKurve]

Just a reminder about Arrivabene. 

 

He's the same guy who when still at Marlboro, demanded that Casey Stoner apologize to Ducati in 2009 when he left to take care of his medical problems. 

 

The guy is a clown. Give it some time for it to show. He's only there to keep the Marlboro money flowing beyond 2015. 

[oetzi]

BIB - John Elkann and Fiat ? Seriously can't thinking of someone with more influence.

He's busy with other things.

[Jvr]

No , not that of Costa i agree.

I also don't think that Montezemolo was fired either , but rather "transferred" to Alitalia (which was rumoured quite a few months before Montezemolo actually left).

The appointment of Marchionne , Fiat man , would suggest Elkann (or his group) behind some of this re-shuffling for lack of a better word.

That was my line of thinking anyway...

I actually think there were two waves of "purging" inside of Ferrari. The first one that was initially related to 2010 disaster and 2011 & 2012 results and team dynamics and the second wave of 2014 cleansing when the heads were really rolling.

 

What you elaborate I believe is more related to the second wave but I think Turrini is suggesting that the revolution started already earlier and devoured its own children in 2014.

Edited by Jvr, 26 April 2015 - 01:32.

[surbjits]

Just a reminder about Arrivabene. 

 

He's the same guy who when still at Marlboro, demanded that Casey Stoner apologize to Ducati in 2009 when he left to take care of his medical problems. 

 

The guy is a clown. Give it some time for it to show. He's only there to keep the Marlboro money flowing beyond 2015. 

 

a source would be nice

[MastaKink]

Yes, look at Sauber. They are quite far off Ferrari's pace. Do you also say Mercedes is 90% engine and 10% design? I mean, look at Williams...
Don't simplify things that are complicated.

 

He's saying the transformation of Ferrari compared to last year is 90% engine and 10% car(aero).  Not that this years car is 90% engine and 10% car.

 

Basically he's saying the turnaround is due to having a much better car than last year. Which is obviously true.

[aramos]

According to himself he did influence the car right away. Plain PR talk or not, he said this:

"I told [the design team] to look at that photo on the wall. Does that front suspension look okay to you?

"In my opinion, when you do you something right in F1 everybody copies it right away. This suspension is something no-one has copied.

"Both drivers need a car with a front they can trust. I asked how much time do we need to make one like that. They answered that it'll take six months.

"I asked what they can do in three months. After that they started working day and night."

http://www.mtv.fi/sp...u-alkoi/5009734

 

They didn't change the suspension, Ferrari are still using pullrod. 

[MastaKink]

They didn't change the suspension, Ferrari are still using pullrod. 

 

They changed aspects of the front and back suspension but remained with the pull rod system.

[tmekt]

They didn't change the suspension, Ferrari are still using pullrod.

That's like saying they didn't change the engine either because it's still a V6 turbo.

[YoungGun]

Arrivabene - There are no individual winners, there is a whole team that moves and this machine does not have a dad, or two or three, it has 1,300.

 

Pure class!

[alframsey]

1 win and we are already discussing who really deserves the credit at Ferrari?

How the mighty have fallen

Somewhat tongue in cheek

[MCR]

http://m.autosport.c...-suit-raikkonen

[redreni]

I didn't know he was getting any credit.

 

It's far too early for him to be judged either way, but of course, there is no way the fruits of any changes made in the short time he's been there would have manifested themselves on the track yet. Whatever they've done right must have been put in train earlier than Arrivebene's arrival, and in my book, it's the people doing the work that deserve the credit anyway. It's not just one guy.

[Gareth]

I'm not sure he's getting too much credit, but he's certainly giving himself too much.

 

(I finally got round to reading the "I got the weight distribution sorted, and in half the time!" story.  Following hard on the heels of "Kimi is driving well because I motivated him".  I'm looking forward to "so I got all the world leaders on the phone and told them to sort out climate change, and they did! in his next interview)

[Force Ten]

The guy is a salesman.

[REDalert]

They didn't change the suspension, Ferrari are still using pullrod. 

They did change the suspension. The whole geometry is totally different. People are focusing way too much to this pull-pushrod thing, it's just a one little detail in the whole suspension package.  

[sopa]

Arrivabene probably gets more credit than he would warrant in an overall context. Especially at such an early stage of his team principal career. We can judge him better after, say, 3 years of leadership.

 

However, Arrivabene also seems to have charisma, which instantly makes him more likable and attracts more praise/attention than it would normally do.

[as65p]

I'm not sure he's getting too much credit, but he's certainly giving himself too much.

 

(I finally got round to reading the "I got the weight distribution sorted, and in half the time!" story.  Following hard on the heels of "Kimi is driving well because I motivated him".  I'm looking forward to "so I got all the world leaders on the phone and told them to sort out climate change, and they did! in his next interview)

 

He-he, you managed to phrase it nicer and in half the words I'd have needed. And in the proper thread to boot...

[REDalert]

I have not yet made my mind about Arrivabene.

 

He comes from tobacco industry, he must be very smart, only super smart people can make it in business like that these days, when smoking is a step away from being illegal.

I think he has publicly said some things that should have kept inside the team instead, or not to be said at all.

 

That said, I can't completely buy his "I tell you the truth, or I tell nothing" thing he tells to media. He knows public relations too well for that and he sure knows how to work with media. 

 

 

What I think of him this far is, that he has created good atmosphere to the team and has taken his share of credit for it.

Edited by REDalert, 28 April 2015 - 14:58.

[oetzi]

'Tell the truth or tell nothing' is an extremely effective form of PR. So long as you stick to the principle religiously.

[Gareth]

He-he, you managed to phrase it nicer and in half the words I'd have needed. And in the proper thread to boot...

I dare not delve where you considered posting ... 

[as65p]

I dare not delve where you considered posting ... 

 

Well, it already happened... and disappeared again, predictably, as indeed it wasn't really on-topic in that thread. That (and because I'm too lazy to post the same all over again in the proper place) is why I'm grateful you provides such a nice, short summit.

[Music Lover]

Mr M deserves all the praise he can get!

[Nathan]

 When the front suspension change is mentioned they mean the angle of the arms and how that affected tire performance.  Compare the angles of the wishbones on this years Ferrari to any of the last number of years.  That is the significant change.

 

 

Scuderia Ferrari is, in essence, a team not a business. It doesn't need to be run by a businessman.

Running it may be the most important job in the business. Doesn't mean it's a job for a businessman.

Most really good businessmen are really good leaders and motivators.  Are the people at say Apple any less a team than Ferrari or any other GP team?

Edited by Nathan, 03 May 2015 - 15:47.

[Claudius]

I'm not sure he's getting too much credit, but he's certainly giving himself too much.

(I finally got round to reading the "I got the weight distribution sorted, and in half the time!" story. Following hard on the heels of "Kimi is driving well because I motivated him". I'm looking forward to "so I got all the world leaders on the phone and told them to sort out climate change, and they did! in his next interview)

You nailed it there.
I couldn't put my finger at what was bothering me about his quotes.
But now it's obvious, he's giving himself a lot of credit.
Whether he's entitled to is another story.

[Music Lover]

You nailed it there.
I couldn't put my finger at what was bothering me about his quotes.
But now it's obvious, he's giving himself a lot of credit.
Whether he's entitled to is another story.

IMHO, it's not fair to pick out a quote from it's context and spin on it, as you and Gareth does.

If you listen on everything he says it's obvious that he is a TEAM player. 

And if you watch how he is acting in the pit it's a HUGE difference compared with previous leaders - were he is very involved and personal with the team members and drivers. 

He is not hiding his joy or frustration, he seems to be quite open with his feelings and honest.. 

No wonder the team seems to love working with him!

 

Clearly the best LEADER in the paddock. 

Edited by Music Lover, 04 May 2015 - 09:58.

[YoungGun]

He is not hiding his joy or frustration, he seems to be quite open with his feelings and honest.. 

No wonder the team seems to love working with him!

 

 

There is undoubtedly a new airiness to Ferrari, but I don't think that is necessarily down to Alonso leaving and Vettel arriving.

 

The new team boss, Maurizio Arrivabene, has brought a lightness and Italian-ness back to Ferrari, which was maybe not there before. Predecessor Marco Mattiacci just seemed like he was bringing procedure in his short-lived reign. He did not get it right on any level.

 

Mattiacci did not connect with the paddock or the business of F1, which is the sport. You can't just work by numbers in F1 - if you could, Toyota would have dominated in the 2000s, instead of failing spectacularly. Arrivabene, on the other hand, is getting it right.

 

David Coulthard has taken notice too!

 

http://www.bbc.com/s...rmula1/32389200

[aditya-now]

I'm not sure he's getting too much credit, but he's certainly giving himself too much.

 

(I finally got round to reading the "I got the weight distribution sorted, and in half the time!" story.  Following hard on the heels of "Kimi is driving well because I motivated him".  I'm looking forward to "so I got all the world leaders on the phone and told them to sort out climate change, and they did! in his next interview)

 

Yes, and we haven't see the best (or rather, worst) of it yet.

 

The story Boschkurve reminded us of: "He's the same guy who when still at Marlboro, demanded that Casey Stoner apologize to Ducati in 2009 when he left to take care of his medical problems." shows how almighty he thinks he is. He has humor, he wants to have the laughs on his side and he is definitely there because of Marlboro - Marchionne picks first and foremost for business reasons, not for class or Ferrari tradition. Will be interesting to see where this will take both the Scuderia and Ferrari, the sports car manufacturer.

 

Expect Ferrari SUVs and many self congratulatory stories in the Scuderia by the powers to be (if they manage to really turn the team around).