60 replies to this topic

[FullThrottleF1]

Did anyone watch the interview on the beeb that EJ had with Bernie, you can watch it on the bbc sport page. Very interesting.

 

 

On Manor he once again stated he did not want them there. He also stated he would step down from F1  if Audi joined.

[krobinson]

 

 

On Manor he once again stated he did not want them there. He also stated he would step down from F1  if Audi joined.

 

 I completely agree with him on Manor and I also would love it if he stepped down

[Victor_RO]

He also stated he would step down from F1  if Audi joined.

 

He's an old man with too much power and money on his hands. He will not step down. He just won't. And Audi in F1 right now would probably take Ferdinand Piech stepping down from VAG altogether.

[Newbrray]

I saw the interview and thats not exactly what he meant. 

 

EJ asked him that Audi mentioned they will only come in if he leaves and that there were rumours of Renault buying Toro Rosso, Bernie replied saying if it means him stepping down to get those 2 manufacturers in he definitely would as he wants them in Formula 1 

 

so its not like he was giving an ultimatum like the OP said.

[FullThrottleF1]

Krobinson, another anti-Manor fan on here. OOr just Bernie in disguise again...

[chrcol]

I used to disagree on manor but its starting to look like they happy to just make up the numbers and is no investment in development, that kind of team should go, second teams (such as torro ross) seem to be better, so perhaps merc and ferrari can both each finance a second team to make up the numbers.  These second teams like redbull can be used to give junior drivers a drive.

 

In my view a team should only be allowed to race if they have the funds already in place that are considered reasonable, it seems now days those who start new teams provide minimum funds and then assume more will come from points or sponsorship, which doesnt cut it.

Edited by chrcol, 19 April 2015 - 19:46.

[ninetyzero]

Did anyone watch the interview on the beeb that EJ had with Bernie, you can watch it on the bbc sport page. Very interesting.

 

 

On Manor he once again stated he did not want them there. He also stated he would step down from F1  if Audi joined.

 

And if that's not a reason to want VAG to come into F1 then I don't know what is. Come on Audi, make it happen!!!

[Kristian]

I used to disagree on manor but its starting to look like they happy to just make up the numbers and is no investment in development, that kind of team should go, second teams (such as torro ross) seem to be better, so perhaps merc and ferrari can both each finance a second team to make up the numbers.  These second teams like redbull can be used to give junior drivers a drive.

 

 

Seriously? They were next to dead only a couple of months ago, and so far the first four races have been fly aways. John Booth and Graeme Lowden are both racers at heart, have been winners in grassroots motorsports, and their integrity should not be questioned when it comes to wanting to compete in F1. Once the European season begins in earnest then we can start judging their development, but Rome wasn't built in a day. 

[cpbell]

Agreed.  I sometimes wonder whether some commenters here are racing fans/enthusiasts or whether they picked motorsport as a subject to study rather as contestants on the BBC quiz Mastermind do if they get to the second round, such is the lack of respect and support they display for true racers like Manor.

Edited by cpbell, 19 April 2015 - 20:10.

[Tony Mandara]

I'd like to see a definitive list of the FANTASTIC things which people KNOW are GOING to happen to F1 when Bernie is gone.

Any takers?

[P123]

Maybe some positive promotion of the sport.

[chrcol]

Seriously? They were next to dead only a couple of months ago, and so far the first four races have been fly aways. John Booth and Graeme Lowden are both racers at heart, have been winners in grassroots motorsports, and their integrity should not be questioned when it comes to wanting to compete in F1. Once the European season begins in earnest then we can start judging their development, but Rome wasn't built in a day. 

not saying get rid now mid season, but in my mind they should be able to close up by end of the year if they serious. if they cant close up at all, and in particular if there is obvious signs of money saving such as not replacing brake pads or not paying bills they should be dropped.

 

e.g. why dont they approach mclaren-honda and say give us free engines, and the extra 2 cars will give you more mileage, then the engine money can goto car development.

Edited by chrcol, 19 April 2015 - 22:37.

[D1rtyHarry]

I think it's a shame about some of the words he has to say for Manor, especially considering the extreme highs and lows of their championship last year.

[Tsarwash]

Very telling interview. I've never seen him express so much regret that Max is still not around, and I've not seen him appear so helpless before. His time is done. 

[aguri]

I used to disagree on manor but its starting to look like they happy to just make up the numbers and is no investment in development, that kind of team should go, second teams (such as torro ross) seem to be better, so perhaps merc and ferrari can both each finance a second team to make up the numbers.  These second teams like redbull can be used to give junior drivers a drive.

 

In my view a team should only be allowed to race if they have the funds already in place that are considered reasonable, it seems now days those who start new teams provide minimum funds and then assume more will come from points or sponsorship, which doesnt cut it.

 

It is literally impossible for teams like Manor and Caterham to compete under the current funding system. Even teams like Lotus, FI and Sauber can at best cover costs year to year whilst building a mid field car.

 

Funding wise they start behind the 8 ball and are never able to catch up. It wasn't like this in the past, Williams won a race in their first season and they won their first race in a car they built themselves in their 3rd season. Would never happen nowadays.

I don't care if bernies stays or goes, but sooner or later the funding system needs to change.

 

Edited by aguri, 20 April 2015 - 06:12.

[Petroltorque]

Ecclestone represents stone age man with a stone aged thought process. A bit like some of the comments I read on the forum. Manor asking for free engines. The manufacturers represent commercial companies with shareholders. As many say Ecclestone has painted himself into a corner. He has had to pay do much money year on year to the top teams to keep them on board there is nothing left for the smaller outfits. Even race promoters are feeling the pinch unless of course the are affiliated with undemocratic governments.

[aguri]

I'm not convinced the manufacturers would up and leave if Bernie cut their special payments. And if they do go - the purely racing teams like Williams, Mclaren and Sauber will stick around anyway. Not to mention Ferrari who have tied their whole brand image to F1 success. 

[Fisico54]

not saying get rid now mid season, but in my mind they should be able to close up by end of the year if they serious. if they cant close up at all, and in particular if there is obvious signs of money saving such as not replacing brake pads or not paying bills they should be dropped.

e.g. why dont they approach mclaren-honda and say give us free engines, and the extra 2 cars will give you more mileage, then the engine money can goto car development.

What's the arbitrary cut off for being serious? Do sauber, mclaren etc make it as they are far off the ultimate pace? McLaren have only managed to get 1 more car to the grid so far, when do Honda have to till they must show improvement? Manor are already far faster than they were in Malaysia.
Unpaid bills - force India have a history of this so I presume they should be kicked out? Apart from last year when Cheglakov stopped funding his team manor and Booth do not.
Changing pads etc, Marussia even last year have no history of using too old parts. The only recent case was Kolles - Caterham who is Bernies pet team boss

[AustinF1]

I'd like to see a definitive list of the FANTASTIC things which people KNOW are GOING to happen to F1 when Bernie is gone.

Any takers?

Agreed. I've often said people should be careful what they wish for in this regard. Bernie certainly has his flaws, but I honestly think if you cut him, he'd still bleed F1. Who do people think will replace him when he goes? It'll likely be some soulless corporate CVC suit (Mackenzie, etc) who cares far less about the sport.

[Henri Greuter]

And if that's not a reason to want VAG to come into F1 then I don't know what is. Come on Audi, make it happen!!!

 

I don't think you can ask from Audi to enter F1 and end up in that can of worms as it is right now only for please the Anti-Ecclestone-Brigade.

As much as i love to see Ecclestone gone, I don't want that to happen at the expence of risking to loose Audi in WEC.

Rather keep that series as strong as possible.

 

 

Henri

[Henri Greuter]

 

 

Funding wise they start behind the 8 ball and are never able to catch up. It wasn't like this in the past, Williams won a race in their first season and they won their first race in a car they built themselves in their 3rd season. Would never happen nowadays.


 

 

 

 

Williams winning a race in their first season? What do you rate Williams first season then? He won for the first time in 1979 but was around as early as 1970 .

 

 

Henri

[tomjol]

He's an old man with too much power and money on his hands. He will not step down. He just won't. And Audi in F1 right now would probably take Ferdinand Piech stepping down from VAG altogether.

 

While I'm well aware that this rumour goes round and round and round without moving forward, there are serious rumblings at VAG at the moment, specifically with regard to Piech...

[Elba]

I'd like to see a definitive list of the FANTASTIC things which people KNOW are GOING to happen to F1 when Bernie is gone.

Any takers?

Amen, better the devil you know imo.

What will happen is that a faceless corporate type will continue to maximize the profits on CVC's investment and that moaners will moan even louder

[FullThrottleF1]

Of course it doesn't help that Jean Todt is as useless as a Chocolate teapot...

[Mohican]

Always thought that the really strange thing is CVC being unwilling to invest, or in fact do anything, to increase the value of F1 as a business. Private equity companies are normally very anxious to increse the value of the companies they own, but CVC has turned out to be completely focused on short term cash flows withourt apparent regard to the future of their holding. This is very strange - and unprofessional; do investors in CVC's private equity funds not care about this at all +

[Elba]

Always thought that the really strange thing is CVC being unwilling to invest, or in fact do anything, to increase the value of F1 as a business. Private equity companies are normally very anxious to increse the value of the companies they own, but CVC has turned out to be completely focused on short term cash flows withourt apparent regard to the future of their holding. This is very strange - and unprofessional; do investors in CVC's private equity funds not care about this at all +

CVC bought the rights for $2 billion and already made some 8 billion from their investment, also they offloaded a bunch of shares to other investors so that they now are a minority shareholder with 35% or so.

Long term plans and increasing the value of F1 doesn't seem like much of a priority, as long as the goose keeps laying the -golden- eggs they seem quite happy.

[Hyatt]

whats his problem with Audi? 

[Rinehart]

For Bernie to state on air that he would leave if it meant that Audi joined and Renault bought Torro Rosso confirms one thing... 

 

He knows at least one of those scenarios will definitely not be happening!

[FullThrottleF1]

He doesn't have a problem with Audi. Audi conducted a study last year to see if they should enter F1, the results were favourable but it is rumoured that the VAG chairman,  Ferdinand Piech, has vetoed it as long is Bernie is in power.

[FullThrottleF1]

For Bernie to state on air that he would leave if it meant that Audi joined and Renault bought Torro Rosso confirms one thing... 

 

He knows at least one of those scenarios will definitely not be happening!

So true.

[AustinF1]

He doesn't have a problem with Audi. Audi conducted a study last year to see if they should enter F1, the results were favourable but it is rumoured that the VAG chairman,  Ferdinand Piech, has vetoed it as long is Bernie is in power.

Wasn't the rumor out there that Piech is in poor health and likely to be stepping down soon?

Edited by AustinF1, 20 April 2015 - 10:25.

[peroa]

whats his problem with Audi? 

"Der Alte" has a problem with Bernard.

[Elba]

Wasn't the rumor out there that Piech is in poor health and likely to be stepping down soon?

That rumor has been doing the rounds for several years now but there is the "rift" between him and VW Ceo Winterkorn.

Guess more news May 5 at the annual shareholders meeting

[Alan Baker]

Williams winning a race in their first season? What do you rate Williams first season then? He won for the first time in 1979 but was around as early as 1970 .

 

 

Henri

Frank Williams entered F1 in 1969 with an ex works Brabham BT26 which he had converted to Cosworth DFV power (as the works cars were that year). Driven by Piers Courage the combination achieved two 2nd place finishes, which is pretty good for any private team, although 1969 was an awfully thin year as far as entries goes. End of history lesson lads.

[AustinF1]

That rumor has been doing the rounds for several years now but there is the "rift" between him and VW Ceo Winterkorn.

Guess more news May 5 at the annual shareholders meeting

Yep. Looks to me as if Piech is toast either way.

[FullThrottleF1]

Yep. Looks to me as if Piech is toast either way.

Perhaps we could be seeing Audi in F1 

[Brazzers]

What's the story between Bernie and Piech? Does anyone have any information on it? 

 

 

Thanks 

[apreading]

I think it is just bizarre...  Is Bernie not titled as the 'Promotor'?  Does that not mean that he should promote the series and the participation of as many teams and sponsors as possible, rather then demote them?

[showtime]

Motorsport.com ‏@Motorsport  Hace 18 minutos

Volkswagen Group moves closer to #F1 entry – we could see an Audi on the grid in 2018... http://bit.ly/1aKx205 

[AustinF1]

I read months ago that if it were up to Winterkorn he'd have had VAG in F1 a long time ago. The roadblock was Piech. Not a done deal by any means, but it seems a fair conclusion that the chances have improved considerably.

 

This might also cast a different light on the proposed upcoming GP of Qatar...

 

 

 

The rest of the board is made up of unknown and private shareholders: Qatar Holding LLC, led by Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani

Edited by AustinF1, 20 April 2015 - 16:03.

[Elba]

 

Motorsport.com ‏@Motorsport  Hace 18 minutos

Volkswagen Group moves closer to #F1 entry – we could see an Audi on the grid in 2018... http://bit.ly/1aKx205 

 

Motorsport concluding 1 + 1 = 3 

better wait and see what the annual shareholders meeting brings or not

[Fastcake]

Agreed. I've often said people should be careful what they wish for in this regard. Bernie certainly has his flaws, but I honestly think if you cut him, he'd still bleed F1. Who do people think will replace him when he goes? It'll likely be some soulless corporate CVC suit (Mackenzie, etc) who cares far less about the sport.

He's 84 and has controlled F1 in some form or other for at least three decades now. There's a point where the time comes for fresh management, regardless of where it comes from. Spending too long in office is never a good thing.

[AustinF1]

He's 84 and has controlled F1 in some form or other for at least three decades now. There's a point where the time comes for fresh management, regardless of where it comes from. Spending too long in office is never a good thing.

Well, just be careful what you wish for. His replacement could be worse, or he could be just as bad. No doubt much younger, ensuring he/she'll likely be around a while. 

 

I always laugh come election time when I hear over over and over that "anyone would be better" than X elected official. 

 

 

Things can always be worse.

[AustinF1]

Motorsport concluding 1 + 1 = 3 

better wait and see what the annual shareholders meeting brings or not

I don't think the math is that bad, really. See the post above yours.

[HoldenRT]

I can't even watch Bernie anymore.

 

Any respect I had for him years ago has slowly been eroded away.  I can't voluntarily watch but every now and then he pops up but even for a few seconds of watching him, I'm reminded why I like to avoid his interviews.

 

I'm surprised that anyone can take him seriously or keep a straight face during interviews, but each to their own.  Probably the only reason the teams don't push to get rid of him is the "better the devil you know" thing.

[Elba]

I don't think the math is that bad, really. See the post above yours.

Yeah I read your post but still nothing has changed yet, Piech is still there, Winterkorn has been with them for years already and although you read he wants VAG in F1 it never happened and I don't see it happening as long as Piech forbids it. Let's see if the situation remains the same after May 5th.

 

I can't even watch Bernie anymore.

 

Any respect I had for him years ago has slowly been eroded away.  I can't voluntarily watch but every now and then he pops up but even for a few seconds of watching him, I'm reminded why I like to avoid his interviews.

 

I'm surprised that anyone can take him seriously or keep a straight face during interviews, but each to their own.  Probably the only reason the teams don't push to get rid of him is the "better the devil you know" thing.

Nope it's because he brings home the bacon ($$$) for the investors and the teams, that's his job and he's still pretty good at that.

[Tsarwash]

The telling thing about Bernie now is that he can't even be bothered to spin a web of deceit any more. When he starts openly telling his mind, then his power is eroding. He will be toppled sooner rather than later, an when it happens it'll happen unwillingly and it'll take place very quickly already. I'm sure that the sharks are already beginning to circle even now. I'm guessing 18 months or less.  

[AustinF1]

Yeah I read your post but still nothing has changed yet, Piech is still there, Winterkorn has been with them for years already and although you read he wants VAG in F1 it never happened and I don't see it happening as long as Piech forbids it. Let's see if the situation remains the same after May 5th.

 

Nope it's because he brings home the bacon ($$$) for the investors and the teams, that's his job and he's still pretty good at that.

Piech is still there but it would seem he's been weakened quite a bit in the boardroom. 

[Elba]

Piech is still there but it would seem he's been weakened quite a bit in the boardroom. 

I think we more or less agree. 

Do hope Winterkorn gets his way, one can hope 

[KingTiger]

Toto should replace Bernie