111 replies to this topic

[V8 Fireworks]

Webber had it...

 

Barichello had it...

 

At first there was promise, a pretense of close competition.  Indeed on their day they could be blisteringly fast, but as the races went on and on and they got/get relentlessly beaten race-in, race-out these days would seem to get fewer and further between... with increasing frustated comments such as...

 

Silence - Barrichello, who would then pull over for Schumi on the final corner 

"Multi 21 Seb, Multi 21..." - Webber 

"What lines is the guy in P1 using?" - Rosberg

"Oh, c'mon guys" - Rosberg 

 

So does Rosberg have it -- frustrated second driver syndrome? 

[SealTheDiffuser]

defintely, can anyone do a "Grumpy, moi?" gif.

[Atreiu]

Frustrated, definitely. Frustrated driver syndrome, deifnitely not. His race yesterday was texbook stuff after a poor start.

He is simply up against three terrific drivers. It's hard enough to look good next to Hamilton. And much harder with Vettel and Raikkonen meddling around.

 

There's a way to go before he spiral's into a Webber like lack of results.

[sergey1308]

At the beginning of this year definitely yes. Maybe he will be stronger, but for now he is beaten by Hamilton on track and outside.

[FastnLoud]

Frustrated yes but he is one of the best drivers on the grid and fastest he aint no Mark Webber just yet.

 

His problem is simply, he is racing against the quickest and best driver in the sport along with Alonso and he isn't winnning any title with Lewis as his teammate and he actually knows it. There is only so much bad luck Lewis can have to give him a chance.

 

Still he can and will win races this year there is no doubt in my mind about that

[ardbeg]

Well, confidence means a lot at any level and more so at the top level. Rosberg doesn't have it at the moment. Maybe he'll get it back. But yes, currently he has the *frustrated "am I really good enough?" syndrome*

He needs to beat Lewis soon, on merit, otherwise he will keep sinking. Unfortunately for him,  Hamilton is the better driver (no, that is not a fact, it is an opinion) so there is little hope for him to resurface.

 

[GoldenColt]

I don't think Nico has given up ... yet. Deep inside he's still hoping and believing in a turn-around. And what better place to do that than Monaco, a race he has won for the last two times and a race which turned his 2014 season around. At least for a bit.

[Jon83]

I think he's struggling against a teammate who is in the form of his life, driving the best car on the grid. 

 

I think there are some similarities to Webber in 2011, but I'd rather wait till at least the middle of the season or later before labeling him. 

[AnR]

No, it's as simple as Nico becoming a father soon, takes away a couple off tenths, perhaps he can regain them next year.

 

But, for now I beleive he's content with 2:nd place and a happy home, the rest is just a charade IMHO.

[Nonesuch]

Whether or not Rosberg is frustrated probably depends on his aims for the next few years of his career. If it is to make a boatload of money and to score a couple dozen more podium finishes and a win here or there then he has little reason to be. If Rosberg, like Irvine famously did, has accepted that his world champion teammate is the better driver then there is little to get frustrated about. If on the other hand Rosberg still thinks he can beat Hamilton over the course of a season, then his continued inability to take the fight to Hamilton during the races must be getting pretty uncomfortable for him. Rosberg, after all, has won just a single race since last season's summer break.

[sergey1308]

No, it's as simple as Nico becoming a father soon, takes away a couple off tenths, perhaps he can regain them next year.

 

But, for now I beleive he's content with 2:nd place and a happy home, the rest is just a charade IMHO.

He is content with a second place? Maybe you think he is satisfied with it? His behaviour last weeks show that he is unsatisfied.

[keiichi]

I think he's been "broken" by Hamilton, he just hasn't accepted it, so in a way, yes, he'll be frustratred until he finally accepts it.

 

I tend to agree with the comments of Button on the matter, in wich he said that with Hamilton the only way to get into under his skin is by beating him and never let things blow out of proportion if he beats you, just get on with it until you can beat him next, because otherwise he really seems to build momentum on that.

 

People also seem to give a lot of credit for the overtakes Rosberg did on Vettel and Raikkonen, but I think they were on the verge of being clumsy, by wich I mean it was one of those moments when you can very easily go from hero to zero. I think he tried very hard to give some of the "medicine" Hamilton gave to him last year in Bahrain, but Hamilton generally is masterfull in this kind of stuff.

 

Hamilton probably can only be beaten by guys that don't have to be necessarily faster than him but stronger psychologically. Unfortunatelly for Rosberg he isn't any of those.

Edited by keiichi, 20 April 2015 - 14:41.

[Ducks]

Its an odd situation for him, if he was asked 5 years ago if he'd be happy with 15 poles, 8 wins, 10 fastest laps and 30 podiums in 5 years time I'm sure he'd have bitten your hand off.

[Nonesuch]

People also seem to give a lot of credit for the overtakes Rosberg did on Vettel and Raikkonen

 

That seems to be feeding the narrative that parts of the media have constructed. After three races of losing out to Hamilton, commentators and pundits were declaring that Rosberg had to show 'fighting spirit' and other such phrases. Now that he supposedly has, he is being praised. The problem being, of course, that Rosberg was fighting for 3rd and 2nd with Ferrari while his teammate Hamilton was cruising around in 1st.

[Kristian]

I think his reaction after missing out on pole in China shows that he's still got the hunger and certainly isn't accepting it. He's just against a man who is supremely high on confidence, at the peak of his career and has used up all his bad luck the year before it seems. He will beat Hamilton a few times this year, but I think he's running out of areas to improve on to do it consistently. 

[Alfisti]

He's just not fast enough and never has been. people rag on Webber and Rubens but at least when they were hooked up they looked REALLY fast but Niico has never shown that IMHO, he's more an accumulator than someone that can steal a race when it all aligns. 

[SR388]

I don't think so. The team hasn't shown favoritism towards hamilton. Once orders and strategy starts consistently go to Hamilton, then he can begin to feel fearful of being number 2.

Right now nico is only number 2 on race performance. The team has not relegated him to that role, his performance has. Those other situations with webber and ruebans were both performance and team ordered.

Edited by SR388, 20 April 2015 - 14:49.

[Alcibiades]

He's just not fast enough and never has been. people rag on Webber and Rubens but at least when they were hooked up they looked REALLY fast but Niico has never shown that IMHO, he's more an accumulator than someone that can steal a race when it all aligns. 

I'm not sure you're correct there.  Rosberg has shown himself to be fast against both Hamilton and Schumacher.  Rosbergs qualifying and racing in recent years has been very good.  Its just that he's come up against a driver in Hamilton who is very fast. 

Edited by Alcibiades, 20 April 2015 - 14:59.

[Alfisti]

Schumi was very close to being old enough to be Nico's dad so let's forget that I think. 

 

Lewis is a stand out driver, no doubt, but i'd like to see Rosberg just do something really special, again, every now and then Rubens or Mark would at least make you sit up and go "shite, that was good', Rosberg just doesn't seem to do that. 

[femi]

I don't think Nico has given up ... yet. Deep inside he's still hoping and believing in a turn-around. And what better place to do that than Monaco, a race he has won for the last two times and a race which turned his 2014 season around. At least for a bit.

That is the big point you raised right there. If he truly believes he can beat Lewis, then he can't give up and hence will find the motivation within himself to prove that. But if he knows deep down that he can't perform admirably next to Lewis, then he would have no choice but to keep up appearances and race as no2 and hence for the money.

I personally believe he knows he can't beat Lewis and has began to sound like it but I will still give him another year after which he will stop keeping up appearances which will be less entertaining.

He may not renew his contract with Mercedes even if offered because I think his pride will not let him.

[Alcibiades]

Schumi was very close to being old enough to be Nico's dad so let's forget that I think. 

 

Lewis is a stand out driver, no doubt, but i'd like to see Rosberg just do something really special, again, every now and then Rubens or Mark would at least make you sit up and go "shite, that was good', Rosberg just doesn't seem to do that. 

I think we might have to agree to differ.  I understand your point but think people underestimate how quick Michael still was.  Not as quick as he had been but he still turned in some impressive performances.  Nico did well to beat him 3 seasons in a row.  Remember Schumacher put it on pole at Monaco for instance. 

 

I think some of Nico's pole laps over the last few years have been pretty impressive.  I think the difficulty is that Rosberg lacks charisma so he doesn't quite generate that excitement around himself.  His performances have been in my opinion impressive.  Thats my view anyway.  He's suffering from comparison to Hamilton.

[Kristian]

He's just not fast enough and never has been. people rag on Webber and Rubens but at least when they were hooked up they looked REALLY fast but Niico has never shown that IMHO, he's more an accumulator than someone that can steal a race when it all aligns. 

 

He dominated Brazil last year. 

[jstrains]

I am sure he did not sign the contract as No. 2 and maybe did not expect Lewis to beat him constantly and take the first WDC and therefore the natural frustration

[RedBaron]

Nico hasn't given up, he's just beaten by Hamilton.

[CountDooku]

He dominated Brazil last year. 

 

No he did not. He was 3/100ths of a second ahead of Lewis in qualifying and Lewis was up his a*** the whole race. Had Lewis not had his spin he would have taken that race as well.

[Disgrace]

Rosberg should be concerned that he's going backwards relative to Hamilton because the same happened to him against Schumacher. He thoroughly humiliated him in 2010 but gradually lost out such that Michael was the stronger driver in 2012, the key exception being Rosberg's victory in China. Without unreliability woes and an unwarranted penalty, Micheal would have seemed a legitimate championship contender throughout the first third of the championship. The points totals were barely representative.

 

Last year, Nico couldn't capitalise on his strong race pace early in the season or his strong qualifying pace late in the season. Now he seems to have neither and the qualifying gaps in Australia and Bahrain were worrying. That said and ignoring the media circus, there's no evidence in the numbers that the gap is increasing as the season goes on. If he can qualify ahead, the game might still change.

[HoldenRT]

Webber won his first race 6 months after breaking his leg and shoulder.. metal rod still in his leg, despite a poor start and a drive through penalty.. still romped home and Seb wasn't even close to matching him in pace.  The last year or two of his career he struggled a bit, but slow is an interesting way to describe Webber.  Especially over one lap.  Inconsistant from track to track maybe, but not slow.  Especially in the first 80% of his career.  It would have been interesting if he did join Ferrari because you can see with Vettel this season what a difference a year makes in a different team with different chemistry.  It's hard to believe that Seb is the same driver from last year.  Seb was in that position last year and was "slow" relative to Ricciardo.  Now he's in a new team and back to his old self.

 

To the OP.. yes, but not because of any quotes or comments Nico has said (the stuff that everyone overreacts to and over analyses) but simply because of his demeanor as a whole.  He's on a losing streak at the moment and just needs a good result to snap out of it.  In the meantime, Lewis is cruising out front while Rosberg battles Ferrari's instead of his teammate.

[Spillage]

There's an increasing touch of the Mark Webber about him, isn't there? Barrichello, Webber and, seemingly, Rosberg, all lost out politically as much as on track. Perhaps his complaints about Hamilton's behaviour are justified - I have no doubt that great drivers are machievellan; they do think about themselves and they will screw you over. That, perversely, is what makes them great champions. Rosberg needs to recognise this, because at the moment he seems to be losing as much time in the head as he is in the car.

[DaddyCool]

You guys have short memory sindrome, Nico was consistently racking up points during his Williams stint, and he even scored some podiums in what was a "best of the rest" car at best.

 

Problem is, - as others pointed out - when you compete against Hamiltons and Vettels, being simply very good is usually not enough.

[Jon83]

You guys have short memory sindrome, Nico was consistently racking up points during his Williams stint, and he even scored some podiums in what was a "best of the rest" car at best.

 

Problem is, - as others pointed out - when you compete against Hamiltons and Vettels, being simply very good is usually not enough.

 

Said a few times that I think Rosberg has been a bit unlucky in that he did several years at Mercedes when the car wasn't much good and rarely looked like ever scoring a podium. When they finally did produce a winning car, his teammate happened to be Lewis Hamilton in the form of his life. To be fair, I'm certain that Alonso, Vettel etc would struggle to beat Hamilton since Spa last year.

 

Not a criticsm of Hamilton before anyone thinks it is - he obviously played a part in the 2014 car development and took the risk of leaving McLaren when many thought he was crazy. It has paid off in spectacular fashion. But I do feel a little for Nico, whom I think is an excellent driver.

[Dick Dastardly]

The problem with Nico is that after Spa last year, and his subsequent bollocking from M-B management, he's not been the same driver as before. Yesterday, after Lewis exited the pits with Nico 1+ secs behind, I'd love to have seen him have a go at trying to get past Lewis but wasn't to be. Might have done his confidence some good if he had but in his mind, any attempt would have been too risky.... 

[derstatic]

We'll see... He sure has the potential of getting that syndrome unless he can somehow start beating Hamilton, not every race but at least every now and then. Right now it must be very demoralizing missing out on the championship last year, vowing to come back stronger and be even more convincingly beaten by Hamilton and having to fight with the Ferraris. I wouldn't be surprised if we, in a few years time place Rosberg with Webber and Barrichello as the very good but not great 2nd drivers who could have been champions if they hadn't had the misfortune of being in the best car at the same time as one of the sport's greats.

[Jon83]

The problem with Nico is that after Spa last year, and his subsequent bollocking from M-B management, he's not been the same driver as before. Yesterday, after Lewis exited the pits with Nico 1+ secs behind, I'd love to have seen him have a go at trying to get past Lewis but wasn't to be. Might have done his confidence some good if he had but in his mind, any attempt would have been too risky.... 

 

For what it's worth, Mark Hughes intimated on the Ted Kravitz notebook that after Spa, Mercedes may have pretty much called off any on track battles between the two. I think he was basing that partly on what Rosberg said in China when it seemed that he suggested whoever took pole would win the race. Personally, I don't buy it - I just don't think Nico has been quick enough and I also think back to Russia when they tussled into turn two, but just putting it out there.

[Riverside]

Frustrated, definitely. Frustrated driver syndrome, deifnitely not. His race yesterday was texbook stuff after a poor start.

He is simply up against three terrific drivers. It's hard enough to look good next to Hamilton. And much harder with Vettel and Raikkonen meddling around.

 

There's a way to go before he spiral's into a Webber like lack of results.

 

 

 Until he finishes 4th in  WDC IN  the best car -  this is not even at the Level of Webber.   I don't see that happening. 

[KingTiger]

For what it's worth, Mark Hughes intimated on the Ted Kravitz notebook that after Spa, Mercedes may have pretty much called off any on track battles between the two. I think he was basing that partly on what Rosberg said in China when it seemed that he suggested whoever took pole would win the race. Personally, I don't buy it - I just don't think Nico has been quick enough and I also think back to Russia when they tussled into turn two, but just putting it out there.

Hamilton passed Rosberg on track multiple times after Spa last year.

[Jon83]

Hamilton passed Rosberg on track multiple times after Spa last year.

 

Like I said, I don't buy it, merely repeating what Mark Hughes was suggesting. 

 

PS - I said it was on the notebook but it may have been on another part of their coverage - I can't quite remember. 

[paipa]

There's an increasing touch of the Mark Webber about him, isn't there? Barrichello, Webber and, seemingly, Rosberg, all lost out politically as much as on track. Perhaps his complaints about Hamilton's behaviour are justified - I have no doubt that great drivers are machievellan; they do think about themselves and they will screw you over. That, perversely, is what makes them great champions. Rosberg needs to recognise this, because at the moment he seems to be losing as much time in the head as he is in the car.

Rosberg is Machiavellian himself, a whole lot more so than Hamilton IMO, but someone has got to lose. The main difference between him and Hamilton is not cunning but good old raw talent.

[D1rtyHarry]

Frustrated, definitely. Frustrated driver syndrome, deifnitely not. His race yesterday was texbook stuff after a poor start.

He is simply up against three terrific drivers. It's hard enough to look good next to Hamilton. And much harder with Vettel and Raikkonen meddling around.

 

There's a way to go before he spiral's into a Webber like lack of results.

To be honest I never expected any less after the schooling he got last year from Hamilton. I liked his move on Raikkonen after the start because I said to myself "learned that from the last race" and right after David Coulthard said the same in the commentary haha.

Edited by D1rtyHarry, 20 April 2015 - 21:42.

[George Costanza]

I think he's struggling against a teammate who is in the form of his life, driving the best car on the grid. 

 

I think there are some similarities to Webber in 2011, but I'd rather wait till at least the middle of the season or later before labeling him. 

 

I agree.... I don't think anyone will match Lewis this year, so he's likely to be a mile ahead of anyone else.

[ViMaMo]

Why you guys always trumpeting Hamilton/Alonso/Hamilton/Alonso....   

 

Nico needs couple of good results (luck?) to get some confidence and push extra hard. 

[teejay]

Best chance he has ever had to collect wins/poles/wdc

 

Getting beaten by the same dude who tormented him as a kid

 

Can't see why he would be frustrated.

[lbennie]

it's looking very much like the Red Bull years again, that's for sure.

 

Now that ferrari is coming back at them & merc isn't quite as dominant, Lewis's current situation is looking extremely similar to vettel's 2010-2013.

[David Lightman]

At some point maybe he'll just accept he's not as good as Lewis and start to enjoy himself. I think Berger up against Senna was a good example of this. He still got to race for a good team, taught Senna how to have a laugh and earned a fortune too. I thought Irvine had the right attitude against Michael too, accept it, and live with it.

[Jackmancer]

So many mentions of 'fast' and 'slow' here. Being fast is only one of the many qualities a driver should possess! Nico has many talents. Whether coping with a 'faster' teammate is one of them, is yet to be seen.

[superdelphinus]

All it takes is a couple of DNFs from Hamilton and rosberg is most likely leading the championship. A bit too early for this sort of stuff maybe. Rosberg does seem to be very low on confidence - he seemed quite sad after Bahrain despite driving really well I thought.

[Jackmancer]

All it takes is a couple of DNFs from Hamilton and rosberg is most likely leading the championship. A bit too early for this sort of stuff maybe. Rosberg does seem to be very low on confidence - he seemed quite sad after Bahrain despite driving really well I thought.

 

Indeed, or, an injury like Schumacher 1999 or Montoya's tennis/shower/moto cross injury in 2005 or something. Not that I want it, but they're all human and it could happen.

[ForzaGTR]

Monaco may be a key moment, there's no doubt Nico is very strong there and maybe has the measure of Lewis, but if Lewis beats him there it's gameover for Nico's title challenge.

[v@sh]

Schumi was very close to being old enough to be Nico's dad so let's forget that I think. 

 

Lewis is a stand out driver, no doubt, but i'd like to see Rosberg just do something really special, again, every now and then Rubens or Mark would at least make you sit up and go "shite, that was good', Rosberg just doesn't seem to do that. 

 

I agree, I've never really seen Rosberg do that full stop, not just now in a dominant car. You look at Webber's wins and the majority of them have stood out, drive through penalty for his first win and still wins the race, dominates in Spain over 30 seconds ahead and Monaco the week after. Wins after his own team management is against him @ Silverstone.

 

I think many fans see Webber being dominated in 2011 and 2013 but no re-fueling, introduction of Pirelli tires and inability to master the blown diffuser were all against his driving style which many fans never see or factor in (much like Kimi and his front end issues, or the tire construction change mid-way through the season which saw everything reverse in Grojean's favor). Webber is still going great in WEC now, doesn't mean he lost his speed, just that the current regs don't suit his driving style. If we were back in the Brigestone refueling days, I'd would take Webber over Rosberg any day. These current Pirellii degrading tires and no refueling, I'd take Rosberg over Webber. Another factor is that Rosberg has the support of team management, something Webber never got during the Vettel years and that's also a big difference IMO.

 

The problem with Rosberg is that he doesn't have the inherent raw speed of the top top guys over the distance. He is very analytic and tries to make it up the difference through that but IMO it isn't enough. If this was the day and age where telemetry was banned, I could see Rosberg struggling even more vs Lewis.

 

The most impressive thing I've seen Rosberg do that made me notice was his debut grand prix where he got the fastest lap of the race when fastest laps counted a lot more back then. Since then, not much has been impressive. Also when I refer to impressive as well, he isn't really the type to charge through from the back ala Webber and co that make those drivers more 'impressive' and exciting. We've seen his racecraft last year and it wasn't the best over the season - Bahrain wasn't too bad but it will take more than one race to erase a season's worth. Not saying Webber was any better early in his career, he had some shonking attempts himself that make him look like a numpty but at the same time he has produced some great ones too.

 

I still reckon wait until further into the season to see how Rosberg is going vs Hamilton, F1 fans are a fickle bunch. More knee jerk reactions than the people running the sport IMO. As DC used to say 'You're only as good as your last race!'.

Edited by v@sh, 21 April 2015 - 07:13.

[ForzaGTR]

Hamilton passed Rosberg on track multiple times after Spa last year.

Also there will be a snowflake in hell before Hamilton follows a team order like that. I can't imagine Merc would dare ask him to hold station now.

[Treads]

He's suffering from a deficit of talent, no more or less. He is a good driver but not in the same league as Lewis.