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Formula 1 teams' 2014 payouts revealed - what can be done?


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#1 Nemo1965

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 13:33

As you can read in this article (Formula 1 teams' 2014 payouts revealed) the changed division in achievement (read: Mercedes kicks everyone's but) has changed NOTHING in de division of price-money. I hope Autosport allows, for the sake of discussion, a post of just the graphic demonstration.

 

JZzAv2A.jpg

 

As you can see Ferrari gets more money from FOM than Mercedes. Red Bull gets more than Mercedes. Williams gets less money than McLaren. For chrissake!

 

I find it quite staggering that this travesty keeps going on and on and on. There's 885 million dollars in the hat which could be used for a much more sustainable F1. What could be done to break through this ongoing sham?

 

Discuss.


Edited by Nemo1965, 13 May 2015 - 13:33.


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#2 wj_gibson

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 13:38

WIlliams finishes third and receives half the prize money of Ferrari, which finished 4th and would have finished lower than that without Fernando Alonso punching well above the car's weight. How does *that* happen?



#3 teejay

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 13:40

This is why the backdoor deals of yesterday are coming back to hurt the sport. 



#4 Kristian

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 13:42

If the premium was split equally, each of the small teams would get an extra 24m per year. That would solve a lot of F1's cash problems in one stroke. 

 

And how on earth is that column decided? Why the hell do Red Bull - who are only in F1 for marketing purposes and will probably pull out in a heartbeat - get 74m just for being there, yet the likes of Sauber (who exist to race, and have been in the sport for years) and Force India and Lotus (younger teams but their core goes back far longer) get the square root of jack all? 

 

Its grossly unfair. 



#5 EndlessMotion

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 13:43

Pretty disgusting when you see it in black and white like that. It's quite obvious what's wrong from an economic point of view but fixing it is easier said than done. Especially in this sport.



#6 tmekt

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 13:45

I'm sure Mercedes can handle the disappointment.



#7 GSiebert

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:00

Small teams should really just stop racing until this is fixed. But I guess you get fined if you don't race ...



#8 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:02

Yet every time the Concorde agreement comes around the teams all agree to this and sign the agreement.



#9 Spillage

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:02

We ought to run it like American football, as per Max Mosley's idea. No historic payments, no prize money. It all gets pooled and dished out evenly. If teams can make more through sponsorship deals, they're welcome to it.



#10 wj_gibson

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:02

Lotus is the continuation of a team that has 4 WDCs and 3 WCCs. No premium at all.

#11 Garndell

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:03

So that's how much the "number of championships" and "how long we've been in F1" payments are.  I really can't wait for some intelligent people to take over FOM & the FIA and put a stop to these payments.  If Ferrari really are the "saviours" of F1 as some have claimed they'll accept it, if Red Bull are really just in it for marketing then they too should accept it.  Payments should be based on performance in the season just finished and not anything else.  Does anyone think the payment structure is a small part of why some manufacturers aren't in F1?

 

Saying that, I wonder if the Mercedes premium payment (if they win this year) will be ~$52m. Maybe in a couple of years if they can continue winning they'll finally get paid more than Ferrari.



#12 as65p

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:03

It's a travesty if one looks at it with the premise of being "prize money", i.e. the cash being handed out based on performance.

 

Then again, it hasn't been that for as long as I can remember. Instead it's always been each party trying to get the best deal for themselves. IOW, how business is done all over the globe. Realizing that, it's suddenly nothing to get worked up about, IMO.



#13 Fastcake

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:07

Well why shouldn't Mercedes be paid less than Red Bull, after doing a far better job last year...

The whole situation is colossally awful, and is the direct cause of all the real problems in F1 today. It's pretty much indefensible.

Edited by Fastcake, 13 May 2015 - 14:11.


#14 Nemo1965

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:09

It's a travesty if one looks at it with the premise of being "prize money", i.e. the cash being handed out based on performance.

 

Then again, it hasn't been that for as long as I can remember. Instead it's always been each party trying to get the best deal for themselves. IOW, how business is done all over the globe. Realizing that, it's suddenly nothing to get worked up about, IMO.

 

'It has always been like that' and 'this is how stuff is done'... Where have I heard that before? Something is wrong or not wrong. The longevity or occurrence worldwide doesn't absolve anyone about trying to solve the problem.

 

Yet every time the Concorde agreement comes around the teams all agree to this and sign the agreement.

 

I seriously doubt that. I think the special payouts are deals between Ecclestone and each team separately. And then, again: does that absolve anyone about not trying to solve the problem?


Edited by Nemo1965, 13 May 2015 - 14:11.


#15 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:21

http://en.wikipedia....corde_Agreement

 

The Concorde Agreement is a contract between the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), the Formula One teams and the Formula One Group which dictates the terms by which the teams compete in races and how the television revenues and prize money is divided. 



#16 Amz964

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:21

Lotus is the continuation of a team that has 4 WDCs and 3 WCCs. No premium at all.

 

This  :up:  How is that even possible they have more championships then the Brackley based team which is now of course Mercedes. 



#17 Rinehart

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:25

As you can read in this article (Formula 1 teams' 2014 payouts revealed) the changed division in achievement (read: Mercedes kicks everyone's but) has changed NOTHING in de division of price-money. I hope Autosport allows, for the sake of discussion, a post of just the graphic demonstration.

 

JZzAv2A.jpg

 

As you can see Ferrari gets more money from FOM than Mercedes. Red Bull gets more than Mercedes. Williams gets less money than McLaren. For chrissake!

 

I find it quite staggering that this travesty keeps going on and on and on. There's 885 million dollars in the hat which could be used for a much more sustainable F1. What could be done to break through this ongoing sham?

 

Discuss.

Some perhaps unconventional thoughts I have are:

 

1. In the Column 1/2 - for Sauber to receive $44m for coming last, I don't actually think that represents an unfair prize or poor return for sporting failure. 

 

2. To me it illustrates that the real problem is you should be able to go racing for $44m in prize money plus whatever income you can generate through sponsorship and diversification (surely a minimum total of $50m - that would ask the last placed team to find $6m). If anyone thinks it is reasonable that you cannot sustainably compete in F1 for $50m per year, they must surely think that money grows on trees. This isn't about what the top teams want to spend - that is up to them. This is about the minimum budget required to compete without going bust.

 

3. I don't actually have a huge problem with any of the values in Column 1/2 - $92 for winning down to $44m for losing sounds like a reasonably placed incentive steps.

 

4. The problem on the distribution side is the Premium Column. For Ferrari to receive more ($97m) for being Ferrari, than the winning team will get for winning ($92m) is absolutely, completely nuts. There must be a line in the sand at which point financial inequality renders a sport not actually a sport at all, and this payment surely surpasses it. Even if it is a point of (provable) value that Ferrari brings a proportionately large share of wealth (interest, awareness, fans) to F1 through its participation, then the counter argument must be, that this is only realised if Ferrari has competitors to race against. It could be argued that a direct consequence of the "Ferrari payment" is that F1's value is being lowered through its unsustainable model leading to less competitors, pay drivers, far flug GP's... In other words an argument that Ferrari are being disproportionately incentivized to not only F1's detriment, but THEIR OWN, is probably valid. Get some researchers onto this now! 

 

5. So the Premiums add up to $250m. With 10 teams on track and 4 manufacturers, 6 need a customer PU which costs approx $30m at the moment. What I would do, is use the premium pot to subsidise the customer to the tune of $25m - so $150 would be shared between the manufacturers. If a 5th manufacturer arrived, that subsidy would fall to $125m as it would be one less customer to subsidise. 

 

That would leave $100m at present which I would then share in a far more socialist manner than is currently the case. If fail to see how Mercedes or McLarens participation hinges on their $34m - Redbull are threatening to leave anyway so clearly their $74m doesn't come with any rope, and I think its about time someone called Ferrari's bluff on their stance that without them F1 is nothing.


Edited by Rinehart, 13 May 2015 - 14:28.


#18 Rinehart

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:26

Yet every time the Concorde agreement comes around the teams all agree to this and sign the agreement.

That's not actually what happened last time...



#19 SophieB

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:27

It's a travesty if one looks at it with the premise of being "prize money", i.e. the cash being handed out based on performance.

 

Then again, it hasn't been that for as long as I can remember. Instead it's always been each party trying to get the best deal for themselves. IOW, how business is done all over the globe. Realizing that, it's suddenly nothing to get worked up about, IMO.

 

If it's all perfectly reasonable, and nothing to get worked up over, it's odd that it's taken this digging deep to uncover just how stark the funding disparity is. Still, I suggest the teams embrace your whole 'no biggie' stance in future, as65p - have the funding disparity directly reflected in how the actual constructor points are awarded after each race.

 

Let Martin Brundle explain to the viewers at home why Ferrari have again been awarded far and away the most points after a race despite finishing 3rd and 5th, I'd enjoy seeing that.



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#20 Anderis

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:28

And imagine that if we have more than 10 teams, they would all get 0 from FOM under current money sharing rules.

 

I wouldn't be too bothered if some teams actually get a bonus, but it can't be that with unlimited budgets, someone gets the equivalent of midfield team's whole year's budget for just being in F1.

 

If you wonder how it could happen that the teams agreed on that. It simple. Bernie goes to Ferrari and Red Bull and offers them huge bonuses, so they sign. Then the rest is taking what they're given, because it's better to get less money than they deserve, than to get nothing. And as soon as most of the top teams presence in F1 is secured, Bernie doesn't care about midfielders, because if they decide to leave, they'll somehow find a way to fill the grid with the customer cars of big teams and most of casual viewers doesn't care.



#21 brr

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:30

F1 is showbusiness, and those payouts reflect it. The actor who plays a corpse is paid a lot less than the leading lady.



#22 Slackbladder

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:33

So Ferrari get more for just turning up than the winner of the WDC gets on their own.


Edited by Slackbladder, 13 May 2015 - 14:33.


#23 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:34

Lotus is the continuation of a team that has 4 WDCs and 3 WCCs. No premium at all.

 

They didn't do the proper deal with the short grey haired chap  :wave:  :wave: 100% Lotuses fault for not getting a better deal in negotiation with said grey haired chap.

 

It's ripe for an alternative rival series (with V10s)!  :stoned:



#24 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:36

 

 

Let Martin Brundle explain to the viewers at home why Ferrari have again been awarded far and away the most points after a race despite finishing 3rd and 5th, I'd enjoy seeing that.

 

Why should Brundle care?

 

This is 100% between the teams, Bernie and CVC.

 

The teams CHOSE to sign up when they KNEW that Ferrari and RBR would receive a guaranteed greater share.

 

Why did they not simply abstain and START THEIR OWN SERIES!!!???

 

Maybe even the lesser teams are also greedy and would rather take $40m than NOTHING?



#25 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:37

That's not actually what happened last time...

They did eventually sign it after they got a bigger share, that was 2013, these figures were the 2014 payouts so they agreed to them and it's after their increase.



#26 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:42

WIlliams finishes third and receives half the prize money of Ferrari, which finished 4th and would have finished lower than that without Fernando Alonso punching well above the car's weight. How does *that* happen?

 

 

That happens because teams accepts and signs their individual contracts with FOM/CVC. 



#27 Newbrray

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:47

$250 million (249 to be precise) shared by just 5 teams, shocking  :evil:  :evil:

 

 

How did the teams ever agree to this in the first place



#28 Rinehart

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:49

They did eventually sign it after they got a bigger share, that was 2013, these figures were the 2014 payouts so they agreed to them and it's after their increase.

Yes I know, but "they all agreed" paints a rather more willing situation than was actually the case!

 

Rather than sitting round a table, what actually happened was that several teams including Ferrari were approached, negotiated with and signed up in roughly an order of value. So what the bottom teams actually "agreed to" was a "take it or go bust" offer after the big teams had got what they wanted, with very small room for movement.



#29 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:49

They are not obliged to race under CVC and FOM.

 

They are ALL welcome to find some sponsors and race in WEC instead.  (where I believe they ALL get nothing ? - but fans only pay 25 euros for their tickets... PERSONALLY I think that's better than extortion of fans to subsidise the teams !!!)



#30 Rinehart

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:50

$250 million (249 to be precise) shared by just 5 teams, shocking  :evil:  :evil:

 

 

How did the teams ever agree to this in the first place

Because if they hadn't they would have faced extinction.

 

They're not retailers that are selling a product one minute and if that product becomes to expensive they can sell something else. They don't have flexibility, they are specialist businesses that can only compete in F1, so if the terms for further participation puts them in a difficult position (such as lower income, more expensive engines, etc) it puts them between a rock and a hard place. 


Edited by Rinehart, 13 May 2015 - 14:52.


#31 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:50

How did the teams ever agree to this in the first place

 

Because they are easily manipulated by the cunning grey hair chap ?

 

Move to USA, race some Indycars... How hard can it be!?  It's so simple!!!! Even Mansell did it!

 

 

The engines are cheap, the gearboxes are cheap, the drivers are cheap to hire, the chassis are relaitvely cheap, teams can run on a modest budget with a small number of employees... It's all TERRIBLY SENSIBLE :eek:   :lol:  :clap:


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 13 May 2015 - 14:52.


#32 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:56

Because if they hadn't they would have faced extinction.

 

They're not retailers that are selling a product one minute and if that product becomes to expensive they can sell something else. They don't have flexibility, they are specialist businesses that can only compete in F1, 

 

But it's not true.  They are WELCOME to compete in WEC, to compete in WRC, to compete in WTCC, to compete in BTCC, and to compete or sell chassis in or for any number of other motorsport categories.  They are welcome to move to USA as Stoddart did with Team Minardi USA.

 

TMG is doing EXCELLENT work in WEC and WRC having quit F1.  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

 

Just they are small fry classes compared to F1, but that's because F1 teams are too  big for their boots  :p



#33 Seanspeed

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:57

WIlliams finishes third and receives half the prize money of Ferrari, which finished 4th and would have finished lower than that without Fernando Alonso punching well above the car's weight. How does *that* happen?

Because this is a combination of results-based *and* business-based contracts.

I'm not a fan of it from a sporting perspective, but this isn't all happening for no reason.
 

So Ferrari get more for just turning up than the winner of the WDC gets on their own.

Yes. Sounds harsh, but the truth is that Ferrari's inclusion in the sport matters a whole hell of a lot in terms of the fandom and viewership. Think of it like a clothing store - they sell many brands and have to pay a certain licensing fee for each brand, and it's worth it to them to spend extra to get the bigger name brands onboard. Not necessarily because a bigger brand is *the best*, but because it brings in the customers.

There's a lot of unfair aspects to many big-league sports, unfortunately. I think the NFL is probably one of the best examples of it done right, but the difference there is that there's a wealth of teams out there and a wealth of people willing to create or buy a team if necessary. F1 has the problem of being a sport where there's not a ton of interest, even if you included an extra couple dozen million per year for involvement as it would hardly makes a dent in the ability to be competitive.

Bringing down costs should be the single biggest priority for the sport. I still say a salary cap is the way to go.

Edited by Seanspeed, 13 May 2015 - 14:59.


#34 Nemo1965

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:57

F1 is showbusiness, and those payouts reflect it. The actor who plays a corpse is paid a lot less than the leading lady.

 

But in F1, the actor that plays the guy that dies after ten minutes in the film gets paid more than the leading lady...

 

Rinehart is actually the first one who really tries to answer in the topic: what can be done? I have to say that just saying 'Well, they signed for it,' or 'There is not a problem' is not really constructive, I am afraid. 

 

I like Rineharts idea of using part of the premium-money to make the engines cheaper. Another idea would be to cut the price-money paid out after the year in two, and use the other half to pay price-money after every Grand Prix. That way the smaller teams can use the payouts after each race to pay their bills, and that is how the independent teams of yesteryear (Lotus, BRM, Williams) use to operate as well.


Edited by Nemo1965, 13 May 2015 - 15:03.


#35 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 14:59

I think $50,000 per constructor point scored, and the remainder is distributed equally amongst all teams.

 

With this system, the payouts would be :

 

Mercedes $106M

Red Bull   $91M

Williams   $87M

Ferrari     $82M

McLaren  $80M

Force India  $79M

Toro Rosso $73M

Lotus  $72M

Marussia  $71M

Sauber $71M

Caterham $71M

 

Or $100,000/point:

Merc $132M

RB $103

Williams $94M

Ferrari $84M

McLaren $80M

FI $78M

TR $65M

Lotus $63M

Mar $62M

Sauber $62M

Caterham $62M


Edited by Frank Tuesday, 13 May 2015 - 15:04.


#36 Paco

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:03

Very very simple.

Why.. Is it like this...

Cause the establishment don't want real a small team to win and upstage a Ferrari, MGP or mclaren.. Redbull had newey and worldwide name recognition and was an anomaly in in f1 and Williams has the historical aspect on their side.

What it clearly shows and states is this... We don't want any new team unless your a global manufacturer to compete or win and if your new you had better fund it yourself and win lots ie redbull to merit a payout during the next contract update.

So just accept it for what it is or tune out. F1 will always be a Ferrari Mclaren series with Williams in as long as he can and MGP in as a works team as long they are winning races... Don't expect anything.. If you don't like.. Stop watching.

Madness that people like haas want in into the frat...

#37 Newbrray

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:07

Because this is a combination of results-based *and* business-based contracts.

I'm not a fan of it from a sporting perspective, but this isn't all happening for no reason.

Yes. Sounds harsh, but the truth is that Ferrari's inclusion in the sport matters a whole hell of a lot in terms of the fandom and viewership. Think of it like a clothing store - they sell many brands and have to pay a certain licensing fee for each brand, and it's worth it to them to spend extra to get the bigger name brands onboard. Not necessarily because a bigger brand is *the best*, but because it brings in the customers.

There's a lot of unfair aspects to many big-league sports, unfortunately. I think the NFL is probably one of the best examples of it done right, but the difference there is that there's a wealth of teams out there and a wealth of people willing to create or buy a team if necessary. F1 has the problem of being a sport where there's not a ton of interest, even if you included an extra couple dozen million per year for involvement as it would hardly makes a dent in the ability to be competitive.

Bringing down costs should be the single biggest priority for the sport.

 

Then Man united really should get the lions share of the £5bn  premiership deal with Sky 

So also should Audi in WEC for being star attraction

 

I understand the bias to stand up for your team Ferrari but honestly even you have got to see the fault in this. I understand you did mention that from a sporting perspective you're not a fan but that still sounds like a bit of a cup out trying to rationalise and provide some form of justification for it.

 

NFL, Baseball, Premiership, I am yet to see a sporting championship that does this kind of sharing and yet all those also have big names with loads of supporters who watch because of them.

 

Am sorry Sean there's no way perspective from which to view this (Sporting, business, ethics) its just simply wrong.

 

 

 

I think its time to ask that million dollar question that has been thrown around from time in memorial

 

Will Formula 1 really die if Ferrari leaves, really will it ?????



#38 Nemo1965

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:07

Very very simple.

Why.. Is it like this...

Cause the establishment don't want real a small team to win and upstage a Ferrari, MGP or mclaren.. Redbull had newey and worldwide name recognition and was an anomaly in in f1 and Williams has the historical aspect on their side.

What it clearly shows and states is this... We don't want any new team unless your a global manufacturer to compete or win and if your new you had better fund it yourself and win lots ie redbull to merit a payout during the next contract update.

So just accept it for what it is or tune out. F1 will always be a Ferrari Mclaren series with Williams in as long as he can and MGP in as a works team as long they are winning races... Don't expect anything.. If you don't like.. Stop watching.

Madness that people like haas want in into the frat...

 

 I don't want to be rude, but if you think it is not a problem, why would you discuss it? In other words: if you don't like the discussion, why don't YOU tune out? It really, really is tired and lazy relativism to kill a discussion by saying: 'Oh, this is just the way it is.'

 

I hope I did not take your post the wrong way. But I am getting pretty tired of tired reactions, if you catch my drift...



#39 Paco

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:09

Why are people suggesting changes, there's an infinite number of ways better.. The power know it too.. Madness to write better options.

It's carefully done to keep the sport as is.

I remember that brilliant Arrows being driving by Damon Hill in superior Bridgestone tires in 97 and how much it pissed off the establishment. One off are one thing but no one wants egg on their face if a Virgin like team was to win an f1 championship against the likes of Ferrari or MGP.

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#40 Seanspeed

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:10

Then Man united really should get the lions share of the £5bn  premiership deal with Sky 
So also should Audi in WEC for being star attraction
 
I understand the bias to stand up for your team Ferrari but honestly even you have got to see the fault in this. I understand you did mention that from a sporting perspective you're not a fan but that still sounds like a bit of a cup out trying to rationalise and provide some form of justification for it.
 
NFL, Baseball, Premiership, I am yet to see a sporting championship that does this kind of sharing and yet all those also have big names with loads of supporters who watch because of them.
 
Am sorry Sean there's no way perspective from which to view this (Sporting, business, ethics) its just simply wrong.
 
 
 
I think its time to ask that million dollar question that has been thrown around from time in memorial
 
Will Formula 1 really die if Ferrari leaves, really will it ?????

I wasn't 'standing up for' anybody here. Just pointing out the reality of the situation. F1 is not in the same boat as these other sports as the interest to join is much more limited and specialized. Throwing out an extra $25 million to a prospective team isn't actually going to make much of a difference when it will still cost at least $200 million a season to be properly competitive.

Edited by Seanspeed, 13 May 2015 - 15:12.


#41 ANF

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:10

I think $50,000 per constructor point scored, and the remainder is distributed equally amongst all teams.

 

With this system, the payouts would be :

 

Mercedes $106M

Red Bull   $91M

Williams   $87M

Ferrari     $82M

McLaren  $80M

Force India  $79M

Toro Rosso $73M

Lotus  $72M

Marussia  $71M

Sauber $71M

Caterham $71M

Actually, those figures don't make me feel sick. Well done!



#42 Fastcake

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:18

But it's not true.  They are WELCOME to compete in WEC, to compete in WRC, to compete in WTCC, to compete in BTCC, and to compete or sell chassis in or for any number of other motorsport categories.  They are welcome to move to USA as Stoddart did with Team Minardi USA.

 

TMG is doing EXCELLENT work in WEC and WRC having quit F1.  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

 

Just they are small fry classes compared to F1, but that's because F1 teams are too  big for their boots  :p

 

Try to think it through realistically. Formula One teams are businesses geared exclusively towards competing in F1. The staff and facilities they have are far in excess of what is needed to compete in any other motorsport series, and outside of WEC there is nowhere that allows the design and production of your own chassis. Leaving F1 and entering another series means making most of the team redundant, and if you're serious about the US they'll be shutting down completely and building a new team in the colonies. 

 

Not really a very palatable option.



#43 Nemo1965

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:19

I wasn't 'standing up for' anybody here. Just pointing out the reality of the situation. F1 is not in the same boat as these other sports as the interest to join is much more limited and specialized. Throwing out an extra $25 million to a prospective team isn't actually going to make much of a difference when it will still cost at least $200 million a season to be properly competitive.

 

Here you are turning around cause and effect, Sean. Because Red Bull spends 300 million per year (I estimate) indeed it costs 200 million and some very good drivers and engineers and some damn luck to beat Red Bull. But now imagine. Suppose a team, say Ferrari, would be able to spend 100 million and be competitive. Would Red Bull then spend 200 million? No. The price of 'properly competitive' is that high BECAUSE Red Bull and Ferrari get such enormous payouts - for nothing but showing up! It is not only unfair that Ferrari are getting millions paid for doing a very bad job per spent dollar, it also is a financial hurdle thrown up for other teams to outperform Ferrari. Very simple. I would have to pay 100 million dollars extra to beat Ferrari if I would have just as strong cars, drivers and engineers. Just because of the premium pay-out.



#44 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:20

I think $50,000 per constructor point scored, and the remainder is distributed equally amongst all teams.

 

With this system, the payouts would be :

 

Mercedes $106M

Red Bull   $91M

Williams   $87M

Ferrari     $82M

McLaren  $80M

Force India  $79M

Toro Rosso $73M

Lotus  $72M

Marussia  $71M

Sauber $71M

Caterham $71M

 

Or $100,000/point:

Merc $132M

RB $103

Williams $94M

Ferrari $84M

McLaren $80M

FI $78M

TR $65M

Lotus $63M

Mar $62M

Sauber $62M

Caterham $62M

 

 

Well the problem isn't trying to create another distribution system. The challenge is getting all the teams to agree. 

 

The result of the last time teams one by one sat down and made an agreement we can see in the first post. 



#45 charly0418

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:20

so the Force India-McLaren battle last year was for 4 million... lol



#46 Paco

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:20

I don't want to be rude, but if you think it is not a problem, why would you discuss it? In other words: if you don't like the discussion, why don't YOU tune out? It really, really is tired and lazy relativism to kill a discussion by saying: 'Oh, this is just the way it is.'

I hope I did not take your post the wrong way. But I am getting pretty tired of tired reactions, if you catch my drift...

I didn't.. So all good.

Cause it's only a problem if don't accept f1 for what it is, then why are you watching... There is plenty of choice when it comes to racing series.. Watch another one. The bigger problem is that fans continue to watch and support the establishment. I for one vote with my remote and hardly ever tune in now. I watch the odd race maybe 3 a year just to see what's up, read news as I prefer the side show now then the actual show. I also stopped going to my local race in Montreal.

Why I don't watch much..

artificial passing ie DRS.
Long life engines.. Leads to conservative racing. Should be number of engines per equal to number of races use as you please + 3 additional ones for testing in season. Unlimited number of engines preseason.
Mandated use of tire compounds.
Restricted number of tires that can be used.
Qualifying fuel at start of gp.. Leads to lack of race strategy. I preferred era when teams started with unknown fuel levels.
Bring back refuelling, we refuel our cars, why can't f1...

Now it's all about conservation, lack of r&d.. You have 1 shot to get it right preseason and if you make an error.. Bye bye see you next year but forced to spend 100millon. Stupidity and hence I don't watch much in protest.

Edited by Paco, 13 May 2015 - 15:27.


#47 SophieB

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:24

F1 is showbusiness, and those payouts reflect it. The actor who plays a corpse is paid a lot less than the leading lady.

 

 

Not really a great analogy because part of the point is that success in F1 is directly linked to how much money you are able to spend in the first place. It's not like all the actors who can afford better costumes or make up automatically give objectively better acting performances too. 



#48 Jvr

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:24

I agree it looks really bad. However, one thing that should be remembered is the engine manufacturers. Should they earn their money only through the team payouts? If one thinks that both Merc and Ferrari are both engine and car manufacturers and most probably some of RBR money also has gone to Renault, the distribution comes a bit more understandable.

 

Perhaps there should be prize money for car as well as engine manufacturers separately to make some incentive for new engine teams to enter?


Edited by Jvr, 13 May 2015 - 15:26.


#49 SophieB

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:26

I didn't.. So all good.

Cause it's only a problem if don't accept f1 for what it is, then why are you watching... There is plenty of choice when it comes to racing series.. Watch another one. The bigger problem is that fans continue to watch and support the establishment. I for one vote with my remote and hardly ever tune in now. I watch the odd race just to see what's up, read news as I prefer the side show now then the actual show.

Why I don't watch much..

artificial passing ie DRS.
Long life engines.. Leads to conservative racing. Should be number of engines per equal to number of races use as you please + 3 additional ones for testing in season. Unlimited number of engines preseason.
Mandated use of tire compounds.
Restricted number of tires that can be used.
Qualifying fuel at start of gp.. Leads to lack of race strategy. I preferred era when teams started with unknown fuel levels.
Bring back refuelling, we refuel our cars, why can't f1...

Now it's all about conservation, lack of r&d.. You have 1 shot to get it right preseason and if you make an error.. Bye bye see you next year but forced to spend 100millon. Stupidity and hence I don't watch much in protest.

 

Fair enough, but there's another thread for 'what's gone wrong with F1' in general terms, please let people discuss this thread topic if they want.



#50 Nemo1965

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 15:26

I didn't.. So all good.

Cause it's only a problem if don't accept f1 for what it is, then why are you watching... There is plenty of choice when it comes to racing series.. Watch another one. The bigger problem is that fans continue to watch and support the establishment. I for one vote with my remote and hardly ever tune in now. I watch the odd race just to see what's up, read news as I prefer the side show now then the actual show.

Why I don't watch much..

artificial passing ie DRS.
Long life engines.. Leads to conservative racing. Should be number of engines per equal to number of races use as you please + 3 additional ones for testing in season. Unlimited number of engines preseason.
Mandated use of tire compounds.
Restricted number of tires that can be used.
Qualifying fuel at start of gp.. Leads to lack of race strategy. I preferred era when teams started with unknown fuel levels.
Bring back refuelling, we refuel our cars, why can't f1...

Now it's all about conservation, lack of r&d.. You have 1 shot to get it right preseason and if you make an error.. Bye bye see you next year but forced to spend 100millon. Stupidity and hence I don't watch much in protest.

 

This is taking the discussion the wrong way (in my view), EDIT Sophie mentioned that as well) but here goes. I really LIKE F1. I like DRS. I like the new engines. I like the new crop of drivers. Lewis, Nico, Seb, Jenson, Max, I find them much more sympathetic (though less intriguing and annoying at the same time), than the F1 drivers of twenty years ago. There is only ONE thing I don't like about F1 and that is how the kartel-like system keeps smaller teams down and big teams. I find it a pretty tall order for me as fan to forget the sport because exactly the NON-sport regulations are totally wrong...

 

Furthermore, the fans have no power at all. If all the regulars of these discussion Fora would stop watching, FOM would not notice. Really. 75 percent of the F1 viewers will never know about these pay-outs we are discussing now. I don't want to be pompous, but guys like you and me and Riverside and Race Addicted and Sean Speed know 300 percent more about F1 than the average F1 viewer. If we, on the background don't think about the future of the sport but as protest 'tune out' nothing will change.


Edited by Nemo1965, 13 May 2015 - 15:27.