44 replies to this topic

[Ali_G]

Does anyone know why Goodyear gave up on F1 after 98.

At the time they has most of the big teams on board including Williams and Ferrari, with only McLaren on Bridgestones.

So why did they give up. Their tyres were competitive and all.

Niall

[Rainbowtrout]

The Goodyear tire cost Ferrari the WDC in 98.

Remember at the beginning of the year how Ferrari couldn't keep up.

Well that was the Goodyear tires.

[damonhillchamp96]

They gave up because they didn't believe in the grooved tire rule. But what I never understood is why they stayed in one season after the rule was in effect. Why spend the money on R&D for a new tire for on year? Just back out in 97 and save face

[MrAerodynamicist]

dhc96, I guess they had too. I expect they had contracts with at least some the teams for '97 by the time they decided to pull out so they had no option but to pull out after '97.

[ace]

I thought it was mainly due to the high cost of competition.

When the grooves were introduced they had to start from square one and put on equal footing with Bridgestone.

They probably thought they had more to lose than gain by going into a tyre war and risk losing....it was a lot easier for them when they had monopoly.

Of course, they were also against the new rules.

[damonhillchamp96]

Originally posted by Rainbowtrout
The Goodyear tire cost Ferrari the WDC in 98.

Remember at the beginning of the year how Ferrari couldn't keep up.

Well that was the Goodyear tires.

Ferrari cost Ferrari the title in 98. It was the fact that the McLaren was so good, not the tyres, that Ferrari couldn't catch up. If you remember, 98 saw the introduction of the new narrow cars. McLaren was the one team who got the new regulations correct. Ferrari had to play catch up and after they finally made some revisions to the car, did they start to challenge

[Todd]

Rainbow is mostly right on this. Ferrari's biggest disadvantage at the start of the '98 season was in the tires. Once Goodyear introduced their 2nd generation '98 tire, the difference wasn't as dramatic.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Originally posted by Todd
Rainbow is mostly right on this. Ferrari's biggest disadvantage at the start of the '98 season was in the tires. Once Goodyear introduced their 2nd generation '98 tire, the difference wasn't as dramatic.

That may be true, but IMO the fault still lies with Ferrari for producing a car that failed to get as much out of the tyres as McLaren did.

[damonhillchamp96]

Originally posted by MrAerodynamicist
dhc96, I guess they had too. I expect they had contracts with at least some the teams for '97 by the time they decided to pull out so they had no option but to pull out after '97.

Oh, that makes sense. Now that I think about it, you are right. I remember they had this big thing about them getting sued from the teams cause of contracts

[Todd]

You're entitled to your opinion, but Goodyear would probably tell you that they didn't do a good job of interpreting the front tire dimension regulations. Once they made front tires with a larger cross section, the Goodyear teams had a much better chance of getting as much as the Bridgestone teams out of their front tires. There probably wasn't much Ferrari could do to get as much grip from a really inferior tire. Maybe you have heard that the biggest determinant of lap times is tires? What do you think happens when you have an inferior tire?

[Ross Stonefeld]

So Ferrari were at a disadvantage for 2 races then.

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by Todd
Rainbow is mostly right on this. Ferrari's biggest disadvantage at the start of the '98 season was in the tires. Once Goodyear introduced their 2nd generation '98 tire, the difference wasn't as dramatic.

For your benefit DamonHIllChamp96

[damonhillchamp96]

Originally posted by MrAerodynamicist

That may be true, but IMO the fault still lies with Ferrari for producing a car that failed to get as much out of the tyres as McLaren did.

MRAerodynamicist, I couldn't agree more. The Goodyear was just as good a tire as the Bridgestone at the beginning of the year. Everyone(besides Ferrari fans) will agree that McLaren was the one team that got the new regs right. Sounds to me like Todd is still a little pissed that McLaren kicked the crap out of everybody that year!

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by MrAerodynamicist

That may be true, but IMO the fault still lies with Ferrari for producing a car that failed to get as much out of the tyres as McLaren did.

Sure while you're at it why don't you blame the situation in the Middle East on Ferrari. The crap some people write!

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by damonhillchamp96

MRAerodynamicist, I couldn't agree more. The Goodyear was just as good a tire as the Bridgestone at the beginning of the year. Everyone(besides Ferrari fans) will agree that McLaren was the one team that got the new regs right. Sounds to me like Todd is still a little pissed that McLaren kicked the crap out of everybody that year!

First of all McLaren did not kick the crap out of Ferrari, McLaren needed the last race of the year to win the WDC.

Secondly, if DC the hitman had not taken out Michael at Spa, Schumacher would have probably won the WDC's. Remember the taped conversation between Ron Dennis and David Coulthard on the radio, " he's right behind you David, he's right behind you".

Thirdly, all the major magazines acknowledged that Goodyear screwed up the first 4 races of MS, enough to give the victory to McLaren.

The truth squad is watching you.

[damonhillchamp96]

Originally posted by Rainbowtrout


Sure while you're at it why don't you blame the situation in the Middle East on Ferrari. The crap some people write!

And China is Ferrari's fault too. God, you Ferrari fans are starting to piss me off

[damonhillchamp96]

Oh and by the way, thanks so much for Luca Badoir. F-1 is a better place thanks to Ferrari bringing him to us. Bastards

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by damonhillchamp96

And China is Ferrari's fault too. God, you Ferrari fans are starting to piss me off

Starting? It seems your already down that road real quite well!

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by damonhillchamp96
Oh and by the way, thanks so much for Luca Badoir. F-1 is a better place thanks to Ferrari bringing him to us. Bastards

What the heck are you picking on Luca Badoer for?

What does he have to do with anything?

[swoopp]

Goodyear was in financial trouble when they decided to get out of F1. They don't have the money to though at racing that Bridgestone does. They also pulled out of some other series.

[pa]

As I recall, the press release on Good Year's site said something to the effect that they were not interested in making tires that were not the best - a not-so-subtle slam at Max for imposing un-F1 like standards on Goodyear. They didn't like the idea of having to pay millions to build shitty tires for F1, so they packed up and left town.

[Melbourne Park]

They also lost their cozy monopoly. Competition sure as heck takes the gloss off an F1 publicity program.

[mono-posto]

In regards to Goodyear costing Ferrari the championship, I will simply offer these quotes:

From Jean Todt:

Were tyres really the technical factor that decided the 1998 season?
Sure. At the beginning, we struggled because our tyres didn't perform as well as McLaren's. But working very hard indeed, Goodyear managed to catch up on Bridgestone.

When did you feel the tyres were right?
From Canada onwards. The victory in Argentina was a one-off result. Our tyres began to perform consistently from Canada onwards.

From Ross Brawn:

It's common belief that Ferrari finished second in the 1998 Championship because of the poor performance of the tyres?
We were ready at the first race, believe me. As far as I was concerned, I was calm and collected and I was sleeping well at night. Our first target was to build a competetive car and I think we evidently did that. The only factor that didn't depend on us was the tyres, and in the first races Goodyear was a long way behind Bridgestone.

From Michael Schumacher:

Why was Ferrari so far behind McLaren in the first few races
Tyre Problems. Goodyear was a second a lap behind Bridgestone. Let's not forget that the Americans were even about to withdraw from competitions but, despite that, poured in human and financial energy to bridge the gap. After decades of success, they could have pulled out without feeling any particular sense of guilt.


Could Ferrari have won the 1998 Championship on Bridgestones? I think it is a very real possibility, but let's face it: it's all history now.

[Rainbowtrout]

Thanks mono-posto, I don't know where you got all those quotes but they sure do the job!

[damonhillchamp96]

Of course Ferrari is going to place blame elsewhere. If you made a shitty car that wasn't up to the task at hand, wouldn't you blame the tires too? Quote whoever the hell you want. Ferrari makes me puke

[Gudrun]

Originally posted by damonhillchamp96
Oh and by the way, thanks so much for Luca Badoir. F-1 is a better place thanks to Ferrari bringing him to us. Bastards

[caper2874]

Oh, and I love how some people forget how quickly they would jump to defend their favourites. Gimme a break, who else would have better insight into what were the major proponents to success or failure than the team themselves? Why can't more McLaren fans grow up like Mika has?
P.S. I'm interested in seeing how much further Mika's new fatherhood affects his career. I have a whole new respect for him now, and actually hope that his luck bounces back, he deserves it.

[Gudrun]

Originally posted by damonhillchamp96
Of course Ferrari is going to place blame elsewhere. If you made a shitty car that wasn't up to the task at hand, wouldn't you blame the tires too? Quote whoever the hell you want. Ferrari makes me puke

[caper2874]

Originally posted by Gudrun

:yawn: :yawn: :yawn:

[mono-posto]

Originally posted by damonhillchamp96
Of course Ferrari is going to place blame elsewhere. If you made a shitty car that wasn't up to the task at hand, wouldn't you blame the tires too? Quote whoever the hell you want. Ferrari makes me puke

DHChamp96,
I backed up the argument with real quotes from real people personally involved in Formula 1. You're welcome to do the same.

Also, I'm not saying that they would have won the WDC on Bridgestones. I'm just saying that there is a very strong possibility that they could have.

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by damonhillchamp96
Of course Ferrari is going to place blame elsewhere. If you made a shitty car that wasn't up to the task at hand, wouldn't you blame the tires too? Quote whoever the hell you want. Ferrari makes me puke

How is your pet donkey???

[Bouleman]

You want to know why?
Just ask Bridgestone in 5-6 more races.

[tony]

Dunlop tire company is owned by Goodyear. I remember hearing a rumor that Goodyear was going to come back and use the Dunlop brand. This rumor was floating around about a year ago. Does anyone have more info about this? Is there a limit to the number tire manufacturers that can provide tires each season?

[Dimo]

Originally posted by damonhillchamp96
Oh and by the way, thanks so much for Luca Badoir.

"Badoir"? Isn't that a lady's bedroom? No, no...hang on, that's "Boudoir".

Hmm, then again, maybe that's where Luca Badoer gets his name from after all...

[ebe]

I do not know exactly, but did not goodyear pull out to be more competetive in CART ? Does anybody know ?

[man from martinlaakso]

In 1998 the biggest difference in car's performance, if we compare McLaren and Ferrari, were the tyres. Goodyear was behind Bridgestone almost half of the season, and in the beginning really massivly behind. McLaren had a better engine and aerodynamically better chassis, and these things were helping the McLaren team to secure the both titles. But the car had some reliability problems, and if Goodyear would have been a match to Bridgestone at the beginning of the season, Ferrari might have won the double already in 1998.

In 1999 McLaren did not have tyre advantage, although the team had previous data from different tracks and this helped in adjusting the cars. That is why the gap between McLaren and Ferrari was much smaller than in 1998. McLaren had still a better engine and a better chassis, but Ferrari was more reliable and had better mechanical grip, which was an advantage in wet conditions. Ferrari worked better as a team and the WCC title was a good acchievment, when we know that MS was injured and out from 6 races.

[Joe Fan]

What I remember reading is that Goodyear felt that the technology needed to produce grooved tires on a competitive level was too expensive for them. So they felt it was wiser to concentrate on the numerous other series that they supply tires to (ie. NASCAR, CART and NHRA). Just handling these three series is a load in itself. If F1 kept slick tires, then it would be just a supply issue which they could have continued with.

I also think that deep down Goodyear didn't see the real value in shelling out the kind of money needed to continue to produce a competitive grooved tire. This is probably only valued by tire manufacturers who aren't as ubiquitous as Goodyear is in the motorsports world.

[damonhillchamp96]

Originally posted by Nikolas Garth

How is your pet donkey???

My pet donkey is fine. How is your mom?

[damonhillchamp96]

Originally posted by mono-posto


DHChamp96,
I backed up the argument with real quotes from real people personally involved in Formula 1. You're welcome to do the same.

Also, I'm not saying that they would have won the WDC on Bridgestones. I'm just saying that there is a very strong possibility that they could have.

All I am asking is for a quote from GoodYear saying they screwed up the tire in 98. My point is, you won't find one. And believe me, I am not a McLaren fan. I hate McLaren more than I hate brussel sprouts.

[shoofirbin]

at the time, goodyear made clear comments in several car magazines that they were pulling out of f1 because they did not agree with the new grooved tire regulations, and they would be concentrating their efforts on cart, which they subsequently pulled out of as well. my opinion? they saw stiff competition coming from bridgestone in f1 and firestone in cart and decided to wimp out rather than lose face. they'll be back.

[BRG]

Originally posted by Rainbowtrout
The Goodyear tire cost Ferrari the WDC in 98.
Remember at the beginning of the year how Ferrari couldn't keep up. Well that was the Goodyear tires.

It is just this sort of stuff that is actually why Goodyear quit.

When they won, it was always credited to the car, not the tyres, and when they lost, it was the fault of Goodyear. Heads you win, tails I lose. Why put in $millions to just get bad publicity? Then the FIA want you spend even more to meet their crazy new rules on grovves. So Goodyear walked, and who can blame them...

[DEVO]

Goodyear gave up because they had competition and they don't like to be forced to compete. Look where Goodyear is now. NASCRAP, why because they have the monopoly on it. They got out of Indy, IRL, F1, and CART... because Bridgestone was kicking their ass.

[Ali_G]

You'd think Goodyear would hgave put up more a fight than that.

Wouldn't it be great now if Goodyear was still involved. We would have a 3 way tire battle.

Now if only Pirelli would think of re-entering the fray aswell.

Niall

[Melbourne Park]

I said earlier that Goodyear lost their cozy monopoly. Competition sure as heck takes the gloss off an F1 publicity program.

One also has to put in perspective what happened to Goodyear.
• You have the monopoly for a number of years.
• Then a competitor comes along.
• The competitor has nothing to loose all to gain.
• The competitor spends twice as much to catch up.
• Twice as much is a fraction of what Goodyear spent over the monopoly years.
• The competitor then says See! We are faster than Goodyear.
• Goodyear then has to start again with a bigger program or get out or look second rate.
• The best business decision is to get out, and rest on your laurels for a while.

The same could easily happen to Bridgestone, although they need the publicity at the moment, so they may continue a heavier funded program.

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by damonhillchamp96

All I am asking is for a quote from GoodYear saying they screwed up the tire in 98. My point is, you won't find one. And believe me, I am not a McLaren fan. I hate McLaren more than I hate brussel sprouts.

Like if Goodyear is going to come out and admit they screwed up Ferrari's and MS championship chances for 1998!

While we are at it, let's ask McDonalds to admit their hamburgers are full of crap!