337 replies to this topic

[FullThrottleF1]

Article on motorsport.com (someone link please, I can't). He says that if Renault don't improve, he's out - potentially taking 4 cars with him. If RB pulls out i'm sure TR won't be saved, maybe Milton Keynes squad can be saved.

[Kristian]

"Beside taking our time and money they have destroyed our enjoyment and motivation - because no driver and no chassis in this world can compensate for this horsepower deficit," Mateschitz told Speedweek.

"In addition, our chances were so scuppered by aerodynamic regulations which meant that chief designer Adrian Newey could not weave his magic on front wings.

"Now we have used our fourth engine, which means we are penalised on the grid.

"How many more things have to happen before we lose all enjoyment?"

 

http://www.autosport....php/id/119559?

 

Pretty brutal stuff. 

[GoldenColt]

This is what the lack of winning does to some people. 

[MikeV1987]

 

 

"As well as that, the regulations for aerodynamics are so strict that our designer Adrian Newey cannot use his full talent"

 Personally, I support the current aero regs because I feel this will bring the teams closer together in that aspect. If only the pu's were closer together in performance I think we would have some great racing.

Edited by MikeV1987, 18 June 2015 - 18:06.

[Gyno]

This is what the lack of winning does to some people. 

 

No.

This is what happens when they restrict everything and doesn't allow teams to freely develope their cars and engines.

Newey lost his interest in F1 because of this.

 

Would love to see RBR  in WEC and Neweys magic on LMP1 cars.

[Prost1997T]

RBR would certainly be a big loss for F1. All that marketing $$$, the Red Bull Ring, as well as their 4 cars would be gone.

[Pontlieue]

This is what the lack of winning does to some people. 

 

That's a big factor of course. But that doesn't change that I agree with him. F1's aero regulations have become ridiculous. There's no room for proper innovation. The cars are simply squeezed into boxes. And the engine rules, with the increasing limitation of tokens every year, make catching up nearly impossible.

 

Also, don't forget that Red Bull's F1 involvement is also for marketing. And F1's increasingly damaged reputation doesn't help if they want to keep Red Bull.

[TheManAlive]

Gotta say that he just sounds like a sore loser. The bit about aero changes meaning Newey cant give them their old aero edge on the front wing really seals it for me - all the teams are on a level playing field with the new regs but because they lost their advantage and are not winning the sport is no longer interesting.

[Quickshifter]

I said it at the start of the season this association will have an ugly ending. This is game, set and match. I know it is not a laughing matter but when Cyril Abiteboul mentions public bashing is not helping their confidence Dietrich Mateschitz has gone the whole hog and made public decimation of Renault engine. Forget the tokens, Renault wouldn't be bothered to do the reliability upgrades after such a public humiliation from Dietrich Mateschitz. I also said it yesterday that winning championships and a customer engine is nearly impossible in the present engine formula and Dietrich Mateschitz agrees with that. Can see Ricciardo jumping the sinking ship soon.

Edited by Quickshifter, 18 June 2015 - 18:19.

[BRG]

In the words of Oliver Cromwell  "You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go"

 

And good riddance.

[JHSingo]

RBR would certainly be a big loss for F1. All that marketing $$$, the Red Bull Ring, as well as their 4 cars would be gone.

 

But don't worry. Mercedes will be asked to bring in a third car, so we can have a completely predictable top three for every race! F1 is saved!

 

[nosecone]

It's a little bit unfair towards Renault. Even while they dominated RB made it look like Renault is rather hampering RB's pace. Renault was the best engine for the exhaust blown diffuser.

 

Of course the current slump is due to Renaults performance but RB's chassis doesn't seem to be the best too.

[Frank Tuesday]

The sooner they quit, the better.  I'm tired of their incessant whining.  Is McLaren threatening to quit F1 because Honda gave them a turd?  How many times has Frank Williams threatened to quit in the decade that they haven't been regular front runners?  The problem is that DM isn't a racer at heart.  He is a rich man with a short attention span.  He'll get a boner for some other thing and throw everything at that for a few years until he is bored of that, too.  Then on to the next shiny object.  Good riddance.

Edited by Frank Tuesday, 18 June 2015 - 18:25.

[Frankbullitt]

[kozmo]

That's a big factor of course. But that doesn't change that I agree with him. F1's aero regulations have become ridiculous. There's no room for proper innovation. The cars are simply squeezed into boxes. And the engine rules, with the increasing limitation of tokens every year, make catching up nearly impossible.

 

Also, don't forget that Red Bull's F1 involvement is also for marketing. And F1's increasingly damaged reputation doesn't help if they want to keep Red Bull.

I agree with much of this but this unending badmouthing of your partner and complaining about the sport does no good for the reputation of the sport either.  

 

It all seemed fine for Mateschitz and RB when they were winning and earned a seat a the big boy table.  They were part of the reason these rules came into play, it was their engine partner that pushed for this formula and the token system. Now they are getting burned by it. And poor Adrian Newey got bored. Ha.

 

As for Renault perhaps it was a bit of hubris that got them into this situation (thinking they could beat Mercedes and Ferrari with the new engine formula) but wow what a crappy partner to have in Red Bull.  Must have been very motivating when Red Bull signed Infinity as a partner and slapped that name all over the sides of the car.  Jeez.

[Anja]

The sooner they quit, the better.  I'm tired of their incessant whining.  Is McLaren threatening to quit F1 because Honda gave them a turd?  How many times has Frank Williams threatened to quit in the decade that they haven't been regular front runners?  The problem is that DM isn't a racer at heart.  He is a rich man with a short attention span.  He'll get a boner for some other thing and throw everything at that for a few years until he is bored of that, too.  Then on to the next shiny object.  Good riddance.

 

How often does Ferrari threat to quit F1 when something goes against their interest? I guess they're not racers at heart, huh.

Edited by Anja, 18 June 2015 - 18:28.

[JHSingo]

At a time when there's so few cars on the grid anyway, people wishing Red Bull to quit (while probably complaining about grid numbers) is pretty ironic.

 

I don't care if you love, loathe or are indifferent to Red Bull. If they quit, it'd mean four less cars and two teams fewer on the grid. I don't see how that is anything to celebrate or wish for, at all.

[RekF1]

 

http://www.autosport....php/id/119559?

 

Pretty brutal stuff. 

 

I've found a better interpretation.

 

"We're not winning any more, and I've never really liked F1 anyway"  He then added,

"F1 is rubbish because Renault are rubbish, and the stupid rules are being enforced this time"

 

[Quickshifter]

If it is a Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams i will shed a tear. These are true racing teams which have raced with passion irrespective of their competitiveness. 4 world championships  and three race wins last year. Laughable how people's passion lasts as long as they are winning. Renault may not have produced a great engine in the hybrid era but they definitely do not deserve such public humiliation.

Edited by Quickshifter, 18 June 2015 - 18:33.

[Timstr11]

So after 10 years in F1, 4 WCCs, 2 runner-up WCCs, Mr Mateschitz is dissapointed and wants to quit!?

[Nonesuch]

How often does Ferrari threat to quit F1 when something goes against their interest? I guess they're not racers at heart, huh.

 

Ferrari complained loudest in 2009, with the double-diffuser farce making a mockery of the new regulations and factions with the FIA pushing harder for a budget-cap than they had previously.

 

They've since stated from time to time that their participation in F1 is not guaranteed, but that's only natural and goes for all teams.

[Strontiumdog]

I remember when a certain driver mentioned Red bull not being a true racing team at heart, he was ridiculed then, looks like he was actually telling it like it was going to be. Everything he said is being played out before our eyes

 

 http://en.espn.co.uk/mclaren/motorsport/story/43743.html

 

Hamilton himself confirmed that he would not be satisfied with one or two titles. But the 2008 world champion said he has doubts over the long-term commitment of Dietrich Mateschitz's team.

 

"Red Bull are not a manufacturer, they are a drinks company," he told The Guardian. "It's a drinks company versus McLaren/Ferrari history. I don't know what their plan is. Our team is building to become a bigger manufacturer, like Ferrari, and I can only see our team being there for a ridiculous amount of time. It is a pure-bred racing team."

 

Hamilton also said that despite being the current pace-setting team he doesn't believe Red Bull will continue to be the strongest outfit in years to come.

 

 

 

[LeClerc]

Goodbye fizzy pish man. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

[MustangSally]

The same article  says they will continue with Renault in 2016 . . . but I honestly don't believe the two parties can work together. 

[Frank Tuesday]

How often does Ferrari threat to quit F1 when something goes against their interest? I guess they're not racers at heart, huh.

I think your Venn diagram is wrong.

[Atreiu]

K, thanks, bye.

 

On a more serious note, did they expect to be competitive and fight for titles indefinitely?

Edited by Atreiu, 18 June 2015 - 19:15.

[CurbPainter]

At a time when there's so few cars on the grid anyway, people wishing Red Bull to quit (while probably complaining about grid numbers) is pretty ironic.

 

I don't care if you love, loathe or are indifferent to Red Bull. If they quit, it'd mean four less cars and two teams fewer on the grid. I don't see how that is anything to celebrate or wish for, at all.

 

Agreed !

 

If that happens, there are a few drivers who might end up not getting a fair change in F1 because of it...it's not good for the talents who are in the waiting room of F1 and you can fear for some others currently on the grid also.

[DampMongoose]

"It's my ball and if I have to go in goal I'm going home."

"ok see you"

"I'm not kidding"

"Ok. Whatever you say"

"bye then I'm going"

"go on then"

"but what will you do?"

"we'll use Ferraris ball like we used to..."

[HoldenRT]

Separate from who is winning or losing, F1 has become incredibly dull over the last 10 years.  Especially since 2010.  It was dull even when Redbull was winning (as a fan), but the one thing that redeemed it (in some ways) was the cheese tyres.  Now that Pirelli have tyres doing 1 stops, it's back to dull.  The problem is, any time anyone says anything people will question their agenda or politics.  Which is correct, because there is nothing but agendas in F1.  Lots of conflicting agendas with no one behind the wheel looking at the big picture.  Many years ago, I could rewatch a race 3 or 4 times before the next one.. and that was when my teams/drivers were struggling.  There was something special about it.

 

When Redbull were winning, it became hard to watch more than once.. despite winning the race.  Many fans dream of their team winning races, and I can say first hand that sometimes, it's careful what you wish for.  Sometimes winning isn't enough.  Sometimes it's better to support a midfield team and have great racing vs dominating the sport but it being 'dull'.

 

These days it's hard to watch at all.  Hard to sit through the race in it's entirety.  It's an insult that it used to be free to follow live timing, and then they take that away and make you pay more.. yet even if you pay, it's worse than it used to be.  It just feels like milking it past what it's worth.  Like an old celebrity past their prime, trying to milk their last drops of value before they die.

 

It's funny that it used to be so good, yet free to watch.  Yet now they try to charge you for everything, yet the product is so poor.  I pretty much feel like they should pay me to watch.  Unless you are a Hamilton fan, I wonder what you could get out of current F1.  Everything in the last 5 years has been exposed in terms of certain agendas with Bernie, the teams or whoever else.  Over time, it has become hard to 'buy in' to the gimmick or status that F1 portrays.  It's very stale at the moment.

 

It used to be great, and free.  Now it's poor and they charge you an arm and a leg just to watch at all.  It's barely even worth watching and they want to charge MORE?  As viewers shrink down, they try to charge more.  They abandon classic tracks and go to strange places that no one has ever heard of.

 

There is some sort of irony there.

[Lopek]

This was entirely predictable this weekend. Rather than the news stories & discussion being about a shoddy performance from RBR at their home circuit it will be all about DM's comments and Renaults fault. So far all the threats and criticism has come out on the Monday after a bad weekend, they're just getting in early before the inevitable.

 

They are just a marketing company who happen to sell overpriced fizzy pop, F1 does does not need them. Good riddance to them if/when they go, though hope the teams & jobs can be saved with real racers in their leadership.

[maverick69]

Good riddance.

 

IMHO they pushed it waaaaaayyyyy too far in too many areas - not just the farty-poppy exhausts.

 

Also, how did they get straight to the top table with no history? Meh.

 

The drink tastes like **** anyway.

 

Give me a cup of good green tea any day..... or an ale.

[chunder27]

So, some people are quite happy to see a bloke who has spent hundreds of millions on F1 sponsoring teams right the way down to the bottom levels of the sport disappear just coz he has a bit of a moan about the current rules. And you are all perfectly happy to slam the door in his face after he bought two teams and kept them going?  OK he is getting value from his investment. But he has a right to bitch.

Do you blame him really?  F1 is a joke right now, it has become an exercise in futility for some teams.

 

He is merely putting pressure on Renault and touting for an engine deal somewhere I guess.

 

Simply saying, "bye then" is missing the point. They do deserve some come back on their investment in the sport in all its categories and their voice will be heard, whether you like it or not.

[YoungGun]

The drink tastes like **** anyway.

 

 

Mix it with vodka and it makes you soar like an eagle.

[Strontiumdog]

Separate from who is winning or losing, F1 has become incredibly dull over the last 10 years.  Especially since 2010.  It was dull even when Redbull was winning (as a fan), but the one thing that redeemed it (in some ways) was the cheese tyres.  Now that Pirelli have tyres doing 1 stops, it's back to dull.  The problem is, any time anyone says anything people will question their agenda or politics.  Which is correct, because there is nothing but agendas in F1.  Lots of conflicting agendas with no one behind the wheel looking at the big picture.  Many years ago, I could rewatch a race 3 or 4 times before the next one.. and that was when my teams/drivers were struggling.  There was something special about it.

 

When Redbull were winning, it became hard to watch more than once.. despite winning the race.  Many fans dream of their team winning races, and I can say first hand that sometimes, it's careful what you wish for.  Sometimes winning isn't enough.  Sometimes it's better to support a midfield team and have great racing vs dominating the sport but it being 'dull'.

 

These days it's hard to watch at all.  Hard to sit through the race in it's entirety.  It's an insult that it used to be free to follow live timing, and then they take that away and make you pay more.. yet even if you pay, it's worse than it used to be.  It just feels like milking it past what it's worth.  Like an old celebrity past their prime, trying to milk their last drops of value before they die.

 

It's funny that it used to be so good, yet free to watch.  Yet now they try to charge you for everything, yet the product is so poor.  I pretty much feel like they should pay me to watch.  Unless you are a Hamilton fan, I wonder what you could get out of current F1.  Everything in the last 5 years has been exposed in terms of certain agendas with Bernie, the teams or whoever else.  Over time, it has become hard to 'buy in' to the gimmick or status that F1 portrays.  It's very stale at the moment.

 

It used to be great, and free.  Now it's poor and they charge you an arm and a leg just to watch at all.  It's barely even worth watching and they want to charge MORE?  As viewers shrink down, they try to charge more.  They abandon classic tracks and go to strange places that no one has ever heard of.

 

There is some sort of irony there.

 

A lot of what you say makes sense but am afraid its for a totally different argument, none of the above has a bearing on the article or what Dietrich Mateschitz had to say about either the competitive state of Renault or aerodynamic limitations. 

[krumpli12]

The biggest problem I think is not that they don't win now. With the current regulations they more than likely not going to win for a lot of years to come.

 

Actually, no one will other than Mercedes. All of the other teams are just... there, with no hope of being really competitive. And all of that for a huge amount of money because even for the also-runs (which is everybody except Mercedes) it takes astronomical spendigs to just participate.

 

I cannot fathom what they were thinking when they constructed these current regulations.

[maverick69]

Mix it with vodka and it makes you soar like an eagle.

To be fair - it does.

 

But the next day  - I feel like I'm getting rodgered by the bloke in Big Trouble in Little China with all of the electricity coming out of his head.

[superden]

Yawn. Sh*t or get off the pot, go or stay.

[wj_gibson]

I wonder if they might wind the teams up at the end of this year.

[sabjit]

I'm getting bored of Red Bulls attempts to try and bully the sport into regulations that give them an advantage.

 

It is sad and quite frankly pathetic.

[Strontiumdog]

To be fair - it does.

 

But the next day  - I feel like I'm getting rodgered by the bloke in Big Trouble in Little China with all of the electricity coming out of his head.

 

 

you mean him

 

[TomNokoe]

3 wins last year and half a season in the midfield this year.

Utterly pathetic. The culture of instant win is abhorrent. Where has the joy in building something special gone? Or rising from adversity. You can't enjoy the highs without the lows.

He can leave and I hope he remains unfulfilled.

[maverick69]

I wonder if they might wind the teams up at the end of this year.

I reckon they're gone mate. I get the impression Ric is really sniffing about other teams - and that's not because of the rubbish PU.

[P123]

Just a fizzy drinks company whose marketing campaign is coming to an end. They were never gracious in victory, certainly never gracious in defeat. Their drivers were a credit to them, the same cannot be said for other senior team personnel.

We can all be thankful at the money they have poured in. The have funded two teams when most other sponsorship has vanished from F1, driven away by the Ecclestone factor, the increasing competition due to the global presence of the likes of the English premier league and F1's inaction over promotion in all available media channels.

But they are also the architechts of F1s problems. The huge overspending we now have, with even Ferrari playing catch up, as they fiddled the resource restriction agreement. They were then the first to break away from FOTA and sign one of Ecclestone's golden handshake deals, helping to get off the ground F1's grossly inequitable distribution of funds, harming the viability of the grid. Between their two teams they suck out $200m annually.

And like some of the fickle fans here, bleat endlessly when 'their guy' is no longer winning.

With their attitude, nobody will touch them. It wouldn't be worth the pain for any engine manufacturer. All the success that Renault has brought them, first sign of tough times and the Red Bull machine throws them in the fire.

They are stuck on aero. Listen to Mateschitz bemoan the fact that Newey can no longer have his flappy wings. Aero is the bane of F1. It needs curtailed. Naturally Red Bull have made a large investment in Newey, so they will fight against that.

Good or bad for F1......? Both.

[saudoso]

Be careful don't let the door slam on your tail on the way out.

[Frank Tuesday]

So, some people are quite happy to see a bloke who has spent hundreds of millions on F1 sponsoring teams right the way down to the bottom levels of the sport disappear just coz he has a bit of a moan about the current rules. And you are all perfectly happy to slam the door in his face after he bought two teams and kept them going?  OK he is getting value from his investment. But he has a right to bitch.

Do you blame him really?  F1 is a joke right now, it has become an exercise in futility for some teams.

 

He is merely putting pressure on Renault and touting for an engine deal somewhere I guess.

 

Simply saying, "bye then" is missing the point. They do deserve some come back on their investment in the sport in all its categories and their voice will be heard, whether you like it or not.

 

I don't believe he's moaning about the current rules.  He's moaning about not winning.  If his team was still winning, he wouldn't care about the rules one bit. 

[maverick69]

Just a fizzy drinks company whose marketing campaign is coming to an end. They were never gracious in victory, certainly never gracious in defeat. Their drivers were a credit to them, the same cannot be said for other senior team personnel.

We can all be thankful at the money they have poured in. The have funded two teams when most other sponsorship has vanished from F1, driven away by the Ecclestone factor, the increasing competition due to the global presence of the likes of the English premier league and F1's inaction over promotion in all available media channels.

But they are also the architechts of F1s problems. The huge overspending we now have, with even Ferrari playing catch up, as they fiddled the resource restriction agreement. They were then the first to break away from FOTA and sign one of Ecclestone's golden handshake deals, helping to get off the ground F1's grossly inequitable distribution of funds, harming the viability of the grid. Between their two teams they suck out $200m annually.

And like some of the fickle fans here, bleat endlessly when 'their guy' is no longer winning.

With their attitude, nobody will touch them. It wouldn't be worth the pain for any engine manufacturer. All the success that Renault has brought them, first sign of tough times and the Red Bull machine throws them in the fire.

They are stuck on aero. Listen to Mateschitz bemoan the fact that Newey can no longer have his flappy wings. Aero is the bane of F1. It needs curtailed. Naturally Red Bull have made a large investment in Newey, so they will fight against that.

Good or bad for F1......? Both.

 

Indeed.

 

I actually quite like Seb Vettel - now that he's out of the RB cloak.

 

I think Lewis is perhaps experiencing the same out of the Mac cloak.

 

Oh to be an F1 anorak.......... 

[PayasYouRace]

Once again we see the difference between a racer and a businessman. F1 sadly has too few of the former and too many of the latter.

[Afterburner]

Maybe it's time for Dietrich to give most of the F1 crowd the finger they deserve and take his involvement and its corresponding cubic money somewhere people will actually appreciate it. I hear the US has two racing series which are starting to find their feet again...

[Silverstone96]

I agree with him, I'm losing interest in this joke formula too.

Although lashing out at Renault isn't right Red Bull have done so much for F1 so they will be a big loss.

Personally I think they will end going to WEC and persuading Audi to give them customer LMP1 cars.

They will take all their young stars with them too if this happened you can guarantee

[P123]

So, some people are quite happy to see a bloke who has spent hundreds of millions on F1 sponsoring teams right the way down to the bottom levels of the sport disappear just coz he has a bit of a moan about the current rules. And you are all perfectly happy to slam the door in his face after he bought two teams and kept them going?  OK he is getting value from his investment. But he has a right to bitch.
Do you blame him really?  F1 is a joke right now, it has become an exercise in futility for some teams.
 
He is merely putting pressure on Renault and touting for an engine deal somewhere I guess.
 
Simply saying, "bye then" is missing the point. They do deserve some come back on their investment in the sport in all its categories and their voice will be heard, whether you like it or not.

And what 'comeback' do Renault get for all of their investment? 4WDC, but never a thanks from Red Bull, only ever mentioned with a kick when something went wrong. And now endless complaints, yet Renault told us last year they were unhappy at the lack of openness with the partnership. Basically Red Bull threw their resources all behind aero, and have a senior tech team who arrogantly believed being good at that was all that was needed. They failed to recognise that more in depth integration with their engine partner was required under the new regs. They miscalculated as much as Renault. It's more of a wonder Renault have stuck around, who also do a lot more in the junior categories which Red Bull too deserve brownie points for. Yet Renault don't get an Ecclestone bung for their efforts. You may be unhappy Red Bull are no longer winning, but frankly sod them. I think Renault have more cause for complaint (and even then it wouldn't be entirely justifiable).