261 replies to this topic

[Lee Nicolle]

For all we know Renault or Honda may have a monster developed from the disasters. But they have to keep the spec of the engines that have been junk all year. Until next year.

Both Honda and Renault though should know enough to build reliable engines. But have not. Reliable and fast would be better, but reliable is No1.

Ferrari have reliable and moderatly fast, as do Williams. So they can race each other for third place.

With the Renaults actually Toro Rosso have a better [still poor] record.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 26 June 2015 - 08:13.

[uffen]

really?

the team can't change their engine? it's the whole point of F1, to develop better cars.

it won't solve by itself if they don't do any changes. 

 

remove that penalty and mercedes would run their engine more at 100% and leave everybody even further in the dust.

 

rules are rules, the other ones obey them

Well, McLaren can't seem to change their engine. By "change" I mean make it run properly (and avoid penalties), not just physically swap one for another. If McLaren can "change" the engine and avoid penalties why the heck haven't they already done so? The penalties sure haven't given them that brilliant idea yet.

 

So, Mercedes is sand bagging right now, just so the other teams don't look as bad as they might otherwise? Interesting. Very sporting of them. Here's an idea: Tell the guys on Rosberg's side of the garage to do that on the sly so Nico can get his championship. Mums the word.

 

Of course, the other Mercedes-powered teams like Williams are holding back, too, staying behind Ferrari just so that Vettel and Raikkonen are not so terribly embarrassed? Or are Mercedes just obeying the unwritten rule about winning at the slowest speed?

No, you believe that without the rule Mercedes would crank up performance, blow a few engines and further boost performance to over come the "natural"
penalties and just spend their way to victory.

 

"Rules are rules, the other ones obey them." I've already concurred that rules are rules and rules must be enforced. To whom are you alluding when you refer to "the other ones"? Do you think someone is not obeying the rules?

Edited by uffen, 26 June 2015 - 13:31.

[uffen]

Now Alonso may get a grid penalty at Silverstone because his engine was damaged because a Ferrari hit it.

I ask again, what point is the FIA trying to make by issuing a penalty in a case like this? Beyond the notion that rules are rules?

[Kalmake]

It's not always clear what damage was caused by a crash, or if the part was damaged before it. Free change would give incentive to crash the car.

[Graveltrappen]

It's not always clear what damage was caused by a crash, or if the part was damaged before it. Free change would give incentive to crash the car.

And thus the chance to follow in the footsteps of Piquet Jnr, Briatore, Symonds and the works Renault Team... And leave F1

[KingTiger]

Problem is, spending is still high if not higher

15 million for a season's worth of Mercedes hybrids against >200 million BMW were spending for Williams per year.

They are significantly cheaper now.

[Talisman]

It's not always clear what damage was caused by a crash, or if the part was damaged before it. Free change would give incentive to crash the car.

 

A functioning pair of eyes is all you need to tell you that Alonso was an innocent bystander in that accident.  FIA inspection would tell you whether damage was caused by component failure or an accident.

 

Having a blanket penalty for being collateral damage in an accident is clearly not what the original penalty system was intended to do, but I hope Alonso gets a 25 place grid penalty just to show the stupidity of the regulation forcing a change.

[uffen]

It's not always clear what damage was caused by a crash, or if the part was damaged before it. Free change would give incentive to crash the car.

What would a team gain by crashing a car? An expensive monocoque, an injured driver, a broken gearbox, too? Makes no sense.

What if the FIA decided that they'll "help" the teams by regulating another costly item like the monocoque? Then when it is pranged in a "racing incident" the team gets a penalty?

 

This just in from the FIA: The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

15 million for a season's worth of Mercedes hybrids against >200 million BMW were spending for Williams per year.

They are significantly cheaper now.

 

 

Where do you get that number? 15 million seems excessively low.

[SenorSjon]

15 million for a season's worth of Mercedes hybrids against >200 million BMW were spending for Williams per year.

They are significantly cheaper now.

 

1) Engines are more in the order of 25m/year. Where did you find the BMW amount? If I remember correctly, they were running a whole team for that amount.

2) Mercedes have spend a lot to get to this, the 200m mark is easily passed in the R&D of the engine and yearly expenses on development is just as high as in the past.

3) BMW refused to have customer teams to get some money back

4) The BMW's were brilliant engines and you got about 100 engines for that. So 2m/engine. Now you get 10 engines, price about 2,5m engine.

 

 

The Alonso penalty is just wrong. With so few engines, crash damage could cost you big time, especially if you are not to blame.

[Talisman]

15 million for a season's worth of Mercedes hybrids against >200 million BMW were spending for Williams per year.

They are significantly cheaper now.

 

The customer price for Mercs vs BMW's full engine development budget is not a valid comparison.  Nor would comparing customer prices as they have been capped in the past and seem fairly arbritrarily set these days.  A better comparison would be how much it cost Mercedes to develop the current PU vs BMW for Williams.  As far as I understand Mercedes has spent quite considerably more.

[uffen]

Glad to see that there may be some light at the end of this particular tunnel.

Penalties to be changed and McLaren allowed an extra engine for 2015. "In the interest of fairness" apparently.

Wonders never cease.