168 replies to this topic

[275 GTB-4]

for those interested...

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/

http://www.abc.net.a...nn-neal/6579236

[PS wonder who now owns the "ex-F1 driver-owned Fiesta? :-) ]

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 28 June 2015 - 23:51.

[GreenMachine]

Thanks!  Must remember to turn the TV on ...

[275 GTB-4]

Thanks!  Must remember to turn the TV on ...

I wouldn't be leaving it on while you are at work Ed

 

[PS for non-Australians you may be able to stream the show from the ABC website]

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 28 June 2015 - 23:56.

[aramos]

I'm sure it will end up online fairly quickly. Should be interesting, but I don't really expect any bombshells. It will likely be heavily dialed down for general consumption.

[Muzzyf1]

Some qoutes from the show..
shows what a crappy person seb really is .

"The team after Multi-21 were disappointed, no question about it, they were shown how toothless they were,” Webber said.
“They couldn’t handle us two out there on the track, which shouldn’t be like that.
“[I was] furious with Seb, a little bit. But the whole scenario was just ‘how did we get ourselves in that position?’
“It was a pretty brutal press conference after the race and on the podium.
“We got off the podium and he just came over and said ‘we need to talk, I’ve just f… up, f…. up so bad’.
“I said mate well, let’s just talk, let’s talk next week.”
Webber said their subsequent discussion at the next race in China went sour.
“I don’t know who spoke to him between Malaysia and China but we had a discussion in China and the discussion didn’t go well,” Webber said.
“He just said that he had massive respect for me as a driver but not so much as a person, so that really affected the relationship.
“At the time, we could hardly stand the sight of each other.
Webber declared there was an unhealthy agenda within the Red Bull team that favoured Vettel which saw their relationship starting to wane as far back as 2010.
“I’ve just won the previous two grands prix from start to finish and then a new rear wing arrives and goes over to the other side of the garage,” Webber said.
“You just think there was a bit of an agenda going on.
“They were very keen to keep (Vettel) probably a little bit happier because again, I was an old dog, I was the guy who was supposed to be a little bit washed up.”

[ClubmanGT]

Nothing really new here - it was obvious the team would say the two could race when Webber was ahead but when Vettel got his nose in front, Webber was expected to be a team player. Horner seems to be less guarded about this, his statements 'You have to make difficult decisions' were pretty telling. At the time he was telling everyone who would listen that there was no decisions and the two were racing on equal terms.

[aramos]

Nothing really new here - it was obvious the team would say the two could race when Webber was ahead but when Vettel got his nose in front, Webber was expected to be a team player. Horner seems to be less guarded about this, his statements 'You have to make difficult decisions' were pretty telling. At the time he was telling everyone who would listen that there was no decisions and the two were racing on equal terms.

 

Horner gets a lot of ****, but he genuinely makes good intra team calls. Last year despite what was no doubt a fair amount of political influence he 100% backed Ricciardo against Vettel including asking Vettel to give position on multiple occasions.

[TurnOffTheLights]

Wow, that's all Webber can allege against Vettel? Once upon a time the German received a new rear wing instead of him? (Webber doesn't tell us, if there were other times, when he himself got new parts first, which I highly reckon) And he got the IMPRESSION (no new arguments, just impression) that the team was trying to favour Vettel? Oh well... that's less Irvine or Barrichello were bringing forward against Schumacher and even less everybody could see with own eyes going on at Ferrari with Alonso and Massa.

 

At least Webber got over it and the two nowadays seem to get along with each other well. Nive to see. Vettel would even have helped Webber to promote his show by giving an interview - but this time Australian TV apparently  "f...ed up".

 

Seb's trophy cabinet come out of it better than mine. But, I'm not jealous of him at all of what he achieved and what he's got," Webber said.

"Time is a healer, a few glasses of red wine here and there and, the grudges will be going.

"Seb and I are getting on pretty well actually, we had a good chat in Monaco, we've caught up a few times, it's interesting to see how he saw things from his perspective and how I saw things, obviously we have a lot of respect for each other.

"He said 'yes, that's what happened at the time'. He said 'yes, we all look back and say would we do things differently', and he says 'absolutely, yes'."

Red Bull was approached by Australian Story but declined an interview. Sebastian Vettel agreed to an interview but Australian Story was unable to coordinate with his schedule. 

[Vitesse2]

[PS wonder who now owns the "ex-F1 driver-owned Fiesta? :-) ]

Hasn't been taxed since 2000, so loooong gone.

[krea]

That's nothing. Especially if you realize that he is telling the stroy from his position, so he excludes the stuff he did.

[kapow]

Does he talk about how he tries to portray being a hard man but is actually just a moaning cry baby?

[ClubmanGT]

Horner gets a lot of ****, but he genuinely makes good intra team calls. Last year despite what was no doubt a fair amount of political influence he 100% backed Ricciardo against Vettel including asking Vettel to give position on multiple occasions.

 

"Making a call" is all well and good, except when you insist you're not making any calls and everything is all fair and equal. As time goes on and truth comes out that no, you were making calls all along, you look like a bit of a berk. 

[Muzzyf1]

Does he talk about how he tries to portray being a hard man but is actually just a moaning cry baby?

 

oh yeah if he says anything he is a cry baby lol the man is telling it how it was nothing more nothing less and just about everyone knows and agrees with that version of events . even though the team was built around seb he did a damn good job at the end of the day.

[MP430]

I wish they had showed more attention to real Australian racers like Alan Jones and Sir Jack before they bothered with this loud mouth never was.

[andrewr]

He gave Vettel a heads up that there could be "some carnage" in his upcoming book, so that might be more interesting than the show, because there was nothing really new in there as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by andrewr, 29 June 2015 - 10:53.

[OvDrone]

Is the book coming out this Wednesday the 1st?

[ed24f1]

I wish they had showed more attention to real Australian racers like Alan Jones and Sir Jack before they bothered with this loud mouth never was.

The same show already featured Jack a few years ago.

[jcbc3]

Some qoutes from the show..
shows what a crappy person seb really is ....“They were very keen to keep (Vettel) probably a little bit happier because again, I was an old dog, I was the guy who was supposed to be a little bit washed up.”

Nothing new there. In 1985 Elio de Angelis stated that after Monaco race he was put in a corner and refused a test in favour of Senna. At the time de Angelis was leading the WDC by a mile over Senna. Just goes to show the teams know who to cuddle and who's to cast aside.

[Requiem84]

Guy get's beaten 5 years in a row by teammate, and now comes up with all kind of excuses. Why didn't Mark leave RB earlier if all focus and 'special attention' was on his teammate? Why couldn't he beat him in 1 single season?

 

I would have had a lot more respect for Webber when he would have come out and said; Seb just was the faster/more consistent driver.

 

Because imo that's the thing, Webber never was consistent enough. He was blazingly fast on some tracks, but always had his fair share of weaker tracks and weekends. 

[apoka]

Wow, that's all Webber can allege against Vettel? Once upon a time the German received a new rear wing instead of him? (Webber doesn't tell us, if there were other times, when he himself got new parts first, which I highly reckon) And he got the IMPRESSION (no new arguments, just impression) that the team was trying to favour Vettel? Oh well... that's less Irvine or Barrichello were bringing forward against Schumacher and even less everybody could see with own eyes going on at Ferrari with Alonso and Massa.

 

At least Webber got over it and the two nowadays seem to get along with each other well. Nive to see. Vettel would even have helped Webber to promote his show by giving an interview - but this time Australian TV apparently  "f...ed up".

 

I'm firmly in the Vettel camp, but it would be nice to see both getting along better now. 

[V8 Fireworks]

 

[PS for non-Australians you may be able to stream the show from the ABC website]

 

by using a geo thing that makes it look like you are from Australia 

[V8 Fireworks]

I would have had a lot more respect for Webber when he would have come out and said;

 

Webber has openly said plenty of times that there are other guys more talented than him ^, and that he is NOT the best driver in the world or anything like that, just very determined hence "Aussie Grit"..

 

& Just not Seb specifically, doubt he could stomach that, that's going too far!

 

Given Webber was fairly close to Vettel on Bridgestones, why should Webber say that Vettel was a much better driver than him?

 

 

 

 

 

"Nah, Nigell's too much of a whinger for me, mate" - Mark Webber 

 

 

Whilst Webbo may indeed whinge (pot, kettle, black?), it's nothing like on the scale of "our Nige"

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 29 June 2015 - 13:46.

[andrewr]

Is the book coming out this Wednesday the 1st?

In Australia, yes. In the UK in September apparently.

[V8 Fireworks]

 

Well, at least Webber won something at Albert Park 

[OvDrone]

In Australia, yes. In the UK in September apparently.

 

I'm gonna get it this week through more dubious nigerian means 'til I can get it in the EU.

[Ev0d3vil]

Mark Webber's book is coming out, and according to motorsport.com, redbull management are toothless.

 

http://www.motorspor...-for-vettel-war

Edited by Ev0d3vil, 29 June 2015 - 16:10.

[ch103]

Guy get's beaten 5 years in a row by teammate, and now comes up with all kind of excuses. Why didn't Mark leave RB earlier if all focus and 'special attention' was on his teammate? Why couldn't he beat him in 1 single season?

 

I would have had a lot more respect for Webber when he would have come out and said; Seb just was the faster/more consistent driver.

 

Because imo that's the thing, Webber never was consistent enough. He was blazingly fast on some tracks, but always had his fair share of weaker tracks and weekends. 

 

C'mon, you know why.  2010 - Webber's leading the championship.  Rather than support their driver with the best chance of winning the WDC, what does Red Bull do?  Back Seb.  Its unheard of.  Only thing that comes close was BMW's disaster in 2008 of favoring getting Heidfeld up to speed versus concentrating on Kubica's championship.

[anneomoly]

Am I the only suspicious so and so that thinks that Vettel could have said yes, sure let's do an interview then made himself unavailable?

[OilFour]

I wish they had showed more attention to real Australian racers like Alan Jones and Sir Jack before they bothered with this loud mouth never was.

i find it really, really disturbing to read comments like this ...

 

For god sake, Webber is telling about how he experienced a certain period in his life, and quit obvious some Vettel fans dont like the things that are said and that makes Webber instantly a whiner / a non real racer.

[YoungGun]

Nothing wrong with Mark telling his side of the truth. Though it does seem like sour grapes considering the opportunity Red Bull afforded him. What does Mark write in his chapter regarding his time at Williams with Pizzonia?

[krea]

Nothing wrong with Mark telling his side of the truth. Though it does seem like sour grapes considering the opportunity Red Bull afforded him. What does Mark write in his chapter regarding his time at Williams with Pizzonia?

 

I think it's less sour grapes than just somekind of selective perception of the past events. It's a natural thing, ask the offender, victim and witnesses of a car accident and you hear all kind of different stories about.

 

So the interview with Vettel would have been so important in that regard.

[apoka]

Personally, I think Vettel & Webber didn't like each other but what we saw is just the surface - I wouldn't be surprised to read that Webber actually had more issues with other members of the team.

 

And while his story is a valid opinion to have, I think he also played the media at times especially when Vettel was still very young. So I'm interested what will be in the book, but will take it with a grain of salt.

[anneomoly]

Personally, I think Vettel & Webber didn't like each other but what we saw is just the surface - I wouldn't be surprised to read that Webber actually had more issues with other members of the team.

 

And while his story is a valid opinion to have, I think he also played the media at times especially when Vettel was still very young. So I'm interested what will be in the book, but will take it with a grain of salt.

 

The headlines certainly make it sound like he thought Red Bull management had a lot to do with it, though whether that's affected by how the media has turned around and crowned Vettel as Ferrari's new darling, who knows.

[CARLO55AINZ]

 

Found this clip from the show

[MP430]

i find it really, really disturbing to read comments like this ...

For god sake, Webber is telling about how he experienced a certain period in his life, and quit obvious some Vettel fans dont like the things that are said and that makes Webber instantly a whiner / a non real racer.

Some Webber fans obviously cant handle the truth. He choked at every Aus GP with a championship winning car. His Aussie grit call was an absolute load of BS. Real racer would have gone to Renault and fought against Alonso instead of hiding out at Williams.
Was no surprise to me that Vettel is 4-0. Yeah I ain't a vettel fan either.

[TheUltimateWorrier]

Mark Webber's book is coming out, and according to motorsport.com, redbull management are toothless.

 

http://www.motorspor...-for-vettel-war

 

Not suprising, given the sugar content of Red Bull...

[ch103]

Some Webber fans obviously cant handle the truth. He choked at every Aus GP with a championship winning car. His Aussie grit call was an absolute load of BS. Real racer would have gone to Renault and fought against Alonso instead of hiding out at Williams.
Was no surprise to me that Vettel is 4-0. Yeah I ain't a vettel fan either.

 

I agree, he goes to Renault and maybe his career is a different story.  But you have to remember that Briatore is the manager for both Alonso and Webber.  Maybe he didn't want to put both of his eggs in one basket.  Could have been out of Mark's hands altogether.

[Redback]

Some Webber fans obviously cant handle the truth. He choked at every Aus GP with a championship winning car. His Aussie grit call was an absolute load of BS. Real racer would have gone to Renault and fought against Alonso instead of hiding out at Williams.
Was no surprise to me that Vettel is 4-0. Yeah I ain't a vettel fan either.

Regardless of what you think of Webber as a driver, your comments show complete ignorance of the prevailing circumstances.

 

Been following Formula 1 for almost 5 minutes now, or are you just trolling?

[ClubmanGT]

considering the opportunity Red Bull afforded him.

 

Yea I think this is kind of the point that's up for discussion, otherwise it would sort of be a non-event, wouldn't it?

[HP]

Why is it MW vs SV again?

 

Isn't the main thrust that the management failed?

 

..

 

was it really? Driver to become youngest WDC? Is that thought so hard to comprehend? Then the good thing that MW and SV didn't like each other.

 

About Webber's comments in general. Seems my mother was wrong when she expected me to be more level headed one when dealing with my 8 year younger brother. Anyhow. Yet another field day for the press, as people seem intend to spend money on the past and a minor blip in history after all. Webber will be happy for the publicity and the royalties.

[Amaroo Park]

I hope Webber gives a full honest account of the Marko, Horner, Vettel three Musketeers act that went on.  

[HoldenRT]

for those interested...

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/

http://www.abc.net.a...nn-neal/6579236

[PS wonder who now owns the "ex-F1 driver-owned Fiesta? :-) ]

 

Steve Waugh sighting..
 

[Zava]

C'mon, you know why. 2010 - Webber's leading the championship. Rather than support their driver with the best chance of winning the WDC, what does Red Bull do? Back Seb. Its unheard of. Only thing that comes close was BMW's disaster in 2008 of favoring getting Heidfeld up to speed versus concentrating on Kubica's championship.

I heard it from a lot of people at the time that starting at Monza, the team should've started using team orders favouring Webber.
Now imagine that cluster****, Webber getting his ass handed to him every weekend by his teammate, but at the end of the races he's let through, inheriting the championship from his way more capable teammate. Most worthless WDC ever?

Red bull luckily did the right thing.

[Sardukar]

I heard it from a lot of people at the time that starting at Monza, the team should've started using team orders favouring Webber.
Now imagine that cluster****, Webber getting his ass handed to him every weekend by his teammate, but at the end of the races he's let through, inheriting the championship from his way more capable teammate. Most worthless WDC ever?

Red bull luckily did the right thing.

 

They were giving Vettel development parts ahead of Webber, if you don't think that gave him a competitive edge then i don't know what to say. Webber really should have won that WDC and it was his only real shot.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

To be honest I really like that RedBull are struggling right now because of the treatment they did with Renault and Mark Webber but we should consider that RedBull prefer number one and number two driver and that was the case every time they were competitive, so It is better every driver to be aware of their policy.

[YoungGun]

He really is prone to flipping things, didn't he do the same on a mountain bike?

[GreenMachine]

Jeeze, I thought we left this stuff behind 18 months ago.

 

Must be school holidays or something ....

[TurnOffTheLights]

They were giving Vettel development parts ahead of Webber, if you don't think that gave him a competitive edge then i don't know what to say. Webber really should have won that WDC and it was his only real shot.

Webber himself was saying in that ABC documentation, that Vettel received a new rear wing once after himself winning 2 times in a row. So that was after the 6th GP of the 2010 season, when a "struggling" Vettel had the same amount of WDC points as Webber.

Webber doesn't tell us, if and when he was favoured by the team. Multi21 showed us, that there must have been such occasions. But all he wants now is to show himself as victim, who could have won WDC, if the team just had allowed him to.

 

He doesn't even mention his main problem: he was slower than Vettel. In 2010 Vettel had 5 mechanical problems, Webber only 2. Nethertheless, both went into the last GP of the season with a chance of becoming WDC. Although both had mathematical chances, Webber publicly demanded team order for himself. I really liked Webber before, but from then on he lost all credit with me.

Althogh he insists on the team prefering Vettel, he himself had the WDC presented on a silver platter, all he had to do was to win Abu Dhabi (and Alonso getting 3rd place at maximum). He failed. So really nobody else to blame than Webber himself.

 

Trying to rewrite history now might be good for his reputation in Australia, but sadly tells more about his character than about Vettels or Red Bull management.

Edited by TurnOffTheLights, 30 June 2015 - 08:53.

[Peat]

He's selling a book, guys. Relax. 

[Zava]

They were giving Vettel development parts ahead of Webber, if you don't think that gave him a competitive edge then i don't know what to say. Webber really should have won that WDC and it was his only real shot.

I'd gladly take the super reliability Webber enjoyed over Vettel rather than a new rear wing (with a broken cross stabilizer or whatever stole the pole from Vettel at the same weekend), thank you.  

after all, it came down to 14 points in the end, yet if you discount all the reliability problems (not the self inflicted damage, just the tech failures!) there was about a 100 points gap between the two. I know it is a stretch, but saying Webber should've won it is almost like saying Button should've beaten Hamilton in 2012.