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Michael Argetsinger


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#101 MCS

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 20:25

Thanks B Squared.  I was merely curious and meant no disrespect, as I am sure you realised - simply a question.  Peter was well thought of in the UK (at least) and was a very quick and competent racer.

 

But that list is terrific.  I need to look into some of those venues...! 

 

Thanks

Mark



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#102 B Squared

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 18:25

Peter Argetsinger's Dutch brother-in-law worked as a corner marshal at the recent Le Mans 24 Hours and he conveys that Michael was remembered with a moment of silence during the event weekend. What a fantastic reminder of the caring and respect for our great friend nearly one year on.

On a separate note, Michael's brother, JC, recently reached out to invite me to Watkins Glen to attend the dinner honoring Mr. Penske with the Cameron Argetsinger Award on June 30th with members of his family. With great appreciation, I'll be attending with Michael close in all of our thoughts.

#103 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 18:37

That was a nice gesture...

Considering the wide range of cars Michael drove, and the many circuits on which he raced, appropriate.

#104 JacnGille

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 00:40

:up:



#105 RA Historian

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 13:47

Brian, that brings a smile to me. I too fondly remember Michael, the kindest man whom I have ever known. Say hi to J.C. for me.

 

Tom



#106 fbarrett

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 22:07

Tom:

 

Could that be arranged for the Elkhart Lake vintage races in July?

 

Frank (look for Tom Warth and me in the old Roller)



#107 B Squared

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 09:50

Hard to believe that it's been one year today since we lost Michael. I was able to spend four days with the Argetsinger's in Watkins Glen last week; they continue to make me feel as if I'm one of their family - just like Michael always did. To say he is missed is a massive understatement; I'm thankful for the years I knew him.

#108 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 12:49

Agreed, Brian, I visited Jean a couple of weeks ago and was made feel most welcome...

A wonderful family.

#109 RA Historian

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 13:15

Indeed. I too miss him dearly. As I have said in the past, he was the kindest man I ever knew.

 

Tom



#110 B Squared

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 10:09

I'm posting the IMRRC article and link to Angelo Lisuzzo's photos of the IMRRC Penske/Argetsinger Award event here. My reasoning being that J.C. mentioned the night before the dinner; "Michael would be so pleased to see us all together."

http://www.racingarc...etsinger-award/

http://www.thespeedc...tent/index.html

#111 E1pix

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 15:58

Looks like a great event, Brian.

Thanks for showing us, and I'm so glad you were able to attend.

#112 DCapps

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 23:51

It would be an understatement of the greatest sort to say that I miss Mike. We had planned for Mike to deliver the first keynote address to the inaugural Jean S. Argetsinger Symposium for International Racing History, which the International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC) and the Society of Automotive Historians (SAH) launched last Fall in Watkins Glen. He and I had plotted and schemed for the bringing such a symposium to life for years and to lose Mike just as it was coming to fruition was a cruel blow. Fortunately, Joe Freeman agreed to help us and stepped in and gave an excellent address to the symposium. Mike and I, as his wife, Lee, will attest, often spent hours on the phone discussing this, that, and the other, usually issues regarding racing history.

 

Thanks to Brian for keeping Mike's memory alive and well.



#113 B Squared

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 09:15

Good to see you back Don. As far as keeping Michael's memory alive and well; thanks for the nice comment, but your efforts with the Symposium far exceed any of my humble attempts. As long as all who cared about him continue to share stories of our times together and pass on just a sliver of his inherent decency to others - Michael will be close by.

Edited by B Squared, 05 August 2016 - 09:16.


#114 B Squared

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 10:40

Friday marked the second year since Michael's passing. He is remembered daily at the Brown homestead.

Edited by B Squared, 09 July 2017 - 10:48.


#115 B Squared

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 11:35

I had lunch with longtime Sunoco/Penske engineer, Jerry Kroninger, last week as he and wife Kathy were vacationing in this part of the country. Of course, Michael's name came up, as that is how Jerry and I met through the Donohue book releases. Hard to believe three years have gone by so quickly since Michael lost his valiant battle against cancer. We miss him and think of him every day and am grateful for all of the wonderful people I met and are still part of my life because of his amazingly generous nature.

#116 E1pix

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 16:29

Well done, Brother.

Still sad for your loss.

#117 SKL

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 16:10

Enjoyed racing Spec Miata against Michael at Blackhawk Farms way back in the day...

 

BTW,  hope all is going well with you BB!



#118 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 23:13

I don't know whether or not you knew Mike's racing history, SKL...

But there's a thread around here somewhere on which he detailed the circuits he'd raced on and seen, and some of the cars he'd driven on them.

That was before the Miata and the Cheetah...

#119 B Squared

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:12

I don't know whether or not you knew Mike's racing history, SKL...

But there's a thread around here somewhere on which he detailed the circuits he'd raced on and seen, and some of the cars he'd driven on them.

Michael's list is post #97 on page two of this thread thanks to Tim Murray, prompted by your good memory. Thanks Ray.

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#120 E1pix

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:13

Enjoyed racing Spec Miata against Michael at Blackhawk Farms way back in the day...
 
BTW,  hope all is going well with you BB!

I love this post. :-)

#121 SKL

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 15:37

Just looked over that list!    I don't think he missed many tracks!!    I find myself looking through my publisher's edition of the Donohue book quite often... brings back great memories, and some sad ones...



#122 B Squared

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 00:51

Continuing with good thoughts of our friend Michael; I spoke with Gordon Kirby today in regards to Michael's Bobby Marshman: An American Racer book. He conveyed that the photo selection process is proceeding nicely and that Racemaker Press is aiming for later in 2018 for its release.

SKL; thanks for asking about my health - all is well and I'm looking forward to (hopefully) many good times ahead. I'm blessed in so many ways, beating cancer is just the latest.

#123 Seppi_0_917PA

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 05:16

From the Indy 500 thread in Racing Comments...
 

Jon and I were kindly invited to the launch of the book “An American Racer - Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500” by Michael Argetsinger at the Speedway Museum by Brian Brown.
https://www.racemake...bobby-marshman/
Marshman-cover.png

Jon took a great picture of Nigel Roebuck, Brians dad, Gordon Kirby and Brian Brown.
XmzOtm8.jpg



#124 B Squared

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 13:55

Thanks Seppi.

#125 E1pix

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 14:46

Heartwarming. So sorry we couldn't make it out.

Please send regards to PiperPa and Jon!

#126 B Squared

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 18:30

Will do, I will post more later but I'm 12 hours away from leaving for the Speedway for the race.

As always thanks for remembering Michael and Bobby it was a huge pleasure to be a part of Michael's final work. I will forever treasure his friendship and kindness.

#127 B Squared

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 11:14

Four years on from Michael's passing. I'm thrilled to see his Bobby Marshman book now available, but his loss still cuts deep for many of us. Michael was an amazing man and such a giving person who always looked for ways to make life better for others. Miss you brother and thanks for all you brought to my life. Thanks to his wife Lee and his wonderful family, I still feel the closeness of our too short, but cherished friendship.

Edited by B Squared, 07 July 2019 - 11:16.


#128 RA Historian

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 15:06

Agreed. Michael was simply the kindest man whom I ever knew.

 

Tom



#129 E1pix

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 15:41

Mike was as lucky to have you as you him, Brian.

Case in point, your honoring him this way. We should all be so lucky once we leave.

#130 B Squared

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Posted 07 July 2019 - 16:09

Mike Nowicki, whose father owned a car Bobby Marshman once raced, told me a couple of days ago that he started Michael's book on Bobby, stayed up all night and didn't quit reading until he had completed all 326 pages. He also commented that he has approximately 300 race driver biographies in his collection and he said he doesn't think he's ever read one that was better written. Thanks Mike.

Thanks also Tom - hope you are well and really looking forward to your Meister Brauser book.

Edited by B Squared, 07 July 2019 - 16:12.


#131 SKL

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Posted 08 July 2019 - 05:15

Even though I have to admit I don't know much about Bobby Marshman,  I will have to get this book as I enjoyed Michael's other works, especially my publisher versions of the Donohue masterpiece...

 

 

(I also figure Seppi above will appreciate my avatar...)



#132 B Squared

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 09:17

First review I've found for Michael's An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500:

http://www.coastal18...ew-MARSHMAN.htm



#133 Collombin

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 17:43

That review could have been written by someone who had never read the book. Indeed if they had read it they would probably not have understated how long he was fighting for his life.

#134 E1pix

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 23:29

We should all be so lucky to have our life's work honored one last time after the studio is closed -- especially in light of such tragic luck writing Michael's epilogue for him.

Cheers to your memory, Michael, you so deserve this. As others have said, you were one amazing guy over the short time I knew you.

With Respects and Thanks for your continuing honor, Mr. Brown. Everyone needs friends like you.

#135 B Squared

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 10:36

That review could have been written by someone who had never read the book. Indeed if they had read it they would probably not have understated how long he was fighting for his life.

True; however phrases such as "he (Michael) has published definitive biographies of Mark Donohue and Walt Hansgen" - "essential work" - "scholarly" - "meticulously" - "dug deep" all describe attributes found within all of Michael's books. That certainly includes An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500. So maybe Jim Donnelly does read E.B.

I liked the phrase "What's most encouraging about this book is its assurance that Marshman's memory will now live in perpetuity."

Bobby's widow, son, sister and other family members and friends are thrilled with Michael's final work and that is what matters most to those involved. Michael's family is also very happy with his last book and the lasting memories that come from his acclaimed works.

 

edit: Eric my friend, thank you - I'm humbled and honored by your kind comments. 


Edited by B Squared, 09 August 2019 - 10:38.


#136 DogEarred

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 12:32

I've been aware of the Indy 500 since 1964  & have been lucky enough to attend the event very frequently since 1986.

Although a 'purist sceptic' at first, I have grown to respect the event & its history. 

 

I am not an intense history buff but from time to time & due to the constant exposure, some subjects washed up & have caused my to take a deeper interest.

 

This is one of them. I will get to read this book. Well done & thanks to all involved.

 

 

Although aware of Cameron Argetsinger through the Watkins Glen races, I was not aware of Michael's racing history in Europe.

I was however, on 'saying hello' terms with Peter, when he was racing in the UK.



#137 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 13:21

Perhaps this would be appropriate reading?

https://forums.autos...e-7#entry556922

#138 DogEarred

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 14:47

Very interesting, Ray.

Thanks

#139 E1pix

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 16:02

I have a vague memory of seeing a photo and reference to Michael racing in England in the early- to mid-'70s -- in either FF or maybe F3?

It struck a bell as it seems around the time I first read of his Dad's name, which sad to say may have been in a report about losing Francois.

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#140 DCapps

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 16:10

Michael's legacy lives on in the Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium for International Motor Racing History which will be held for the fifth time over two days, the 8th and 9th of November, in Watkins Glen.

 

This year, we have what can only be seen as a bumper crop of submissions for the symposium, demonstrating the growing interest in the topic.

 

It will be the usual mixture of scholars from the world of the Academe, but also those independent scholars pursuing their personal interest and, yes, enthusiasm for the subject.

 

Former NASCAR historian Buz McKim will be back, the founder and publisher of Racemaker Press, Dr. Joe Freeman will also return, along with several other Argetsinger stalwarts, such as Dr. Mark Howell, whose presentation will address the relationship between NASA and motorsports.

 

This year, we intend to conduct both days of the symposium at the Watkins Glen International media center, making the experience even more in keeping with what Mike and I originally wished for the symposium.

 

We should have the schedule finally hammered out soon and will post it when the dust settles.

 

The Michael Argetsinger Symposium is, of course, open to the public along with the reception held on Friday evening at the International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC).

 

All we ask is that those attending consider making a donation to the IMRRC.



#141 Cirrus

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 18:51

I have a vague memory of seeing a photo and reference to Michael racing in England in the early- to mid-'70s -- in either FF or maybe F3?

It struck a bell as it seems around the time I first read of his Dad's name, which sad to say may have been in a report about losing Francois.

 

Wasn't that Peter Argetsinger?



#142 2F-001

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 19:30

It’s Peter that I remember seeing in FF1600, in particular with a Royale RP26 — which would mean late 70s (‘79?). But I don’t recall offhand how many seasons he was around.

Edit: he made the Festival final that year, didn’t he?

Edited by 2F-001, 11 August 2019 - 20:45.


#143 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 21:13

Originally posted by Cirrus
Wasn't that Peter Argetsinger?


From Mike's introduction here (linked above):

I eventually lived and raced in Europe for about ten years altogether. I never succeeded in making a living at it and always had a job that supported me (and my racing!). I raced mostly Formula Ford which was quite competitive at the time but also did some sedan racing too and twice did the 24-Hours of the Nurburgring. I was also involved in the organizational side as I organized the German National Formula Ford Championship on behalf of my sponsor American Express International. I later turned this series over - first to my brother Peter - and then to Dan Partel.

Since coming back to America in 1978 I have continued racing and have done a wide variety from FF, to FF2000, various sedans and sports cars in SCCA, Camel Light, and the various quasi-pro series in sedans, etc. If I have an achievement to point to in my racing I would say that it is the fact that I am still doing it!

For the statistically addicted (as I am myself!) I have 251 race starts to date - have raced at 53 different circuits (not counting those I have only tested at) in eight countries and 20 states of America - also have raced on nine different circuits that have hosted a World Championship Grand Prix.



#144 DogEarred

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 16:04

I have race programmes showing Peter racing FF1600 in 1980 & 1981, then Formula 3 in 1982.



#145 Mallory Dan

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 18:32

Peter was pretty good in FF, not one of the regular racewinners but a regular top 6 runner in good company. He didn't shine in F3 as I recall, but 82 Formula RT3 was a decent year with such as Byrne, Mansilla, Scott, Brundle, Weaver, Moreno, Trott, Coyne etc



#146 B Squared

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 14:11

Additional favorable comment on Michael's "An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500"

"What got me going – again – was a book I started earlier this week. Entitled, “An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500,” it was written by Michael Argetsinger, son of the legendary Cameron Argetsinger, the man who brought sports car road racing to the village of Watkins Glen in New York. It’s a great read and Michael must be congratulated for what had to be months if not years of research required to tell the reader literally everything there was to know about Marshman, and others of his era. If a guy like me wants to write a book, I can use Google to track down many of the facts; to research the life and times of Marshman, Argetsinger had to read microfilm of National Speed Sport News and microfiche or film of the sports pages of papers in the little towns where guys like Marshman had to go to race while working their way up the ladder to Big Indy. It was an arduous task that Argetsinger did so well.

But the point is that guys like Marshman – and Johnny White and A.J. Foyt and Bobby Unser and the list can go on and on – had to do all (or most) of their own mechanical work to get their cars ready to race. And while they often teamed up with other racers or teams to save on expenses while traveling from speedway to speedway, they often were on the road by themselves and the U.S. Interstate Highway System was still being constructed and the highways were two-lanes and went through the downtowns of every village, town and city along the way. Bobby Unser told me once that it would take him between 18 to 20 hours (12 hours now) to drive from his home in Albuquerque, N.M., to Los Angeles for one race – which saw him use much of his Pikes Peak-winning purse one year to purchase a small Cessna airplane, the first of the short-track racers to fly in order to save time.

And the cars they raced back then were not safe. There were no roll bars and safety belts were – maybe – one shoulder strap. The drivers were very aware of the dangers of racing and “gave each other room” (unlike today, with the roll cages or the halos, where drivers who – at one time – might not have had the courage to even go out there are braver ‘n Dick Tracy because if they do get upside down, it’s likely they won’t be hurt).

But even with the drivers being ultra-careful, accidents happened. An open-wheel car that got too high and brushed the wall could wind up flipping over and if the driver survived, his teeth didn’t. Or his nose and jaw were broken. And a lot of them – a lot – were killed.

This was the world of Bobby Marshman and nowhere in Michael Argetsinger’s meticulously researched book is there one word about Bobby Marshman complaining. About anything. Nor does anybody else complain. I know times change and people change and the Internet has changed just about everything but I have a feeling that if guys like Marshman or Don Branson or Jimmy Bryan were racing today, you still wouldn’t hear them moaning and groaning like all those precious guys living in Monte Carlo are ever so prone to do."


https://www.wheels.c...d-all-the-news/


Edited by B Squared, 19 October 2019 - 14:13.


#147 B Squared

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 11:35

I thoroughly enjoyed a half-hour phone conversation last evening with Janet Marshman Woolley, Bobby's widow. She and all of her family are thrilled with Michael's book on Bobby Marshman. She expressed her fondness for Michael and how much he is missed, and now stays in regular contact with his sister Marya, as do I. She mentioned that she has heard from numerous people from those long-ago days that includes Bob's friends and competitors from URC, ARDC and USAC days - it was unanimous, they loved the Racemaker Press book also. Janet is a wonderful lady now in her eighties; our conversation did nothing but confirm why I'm thrilled to have been involved with Michael, Lee, Marya, Kevin Hughey and Rob Argetsinger on this monumental project.

#148 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 15:48

We've now noted the passing of Cameron, Sam, Mike, Jean and Pete...

 

Cruelly, this is how life is. Each of them had their own attributes and each had their own way to affect people.

 

Mike, of course, posted here for a time. But he found he had to give it up when the friendliness started to disappear. It was not for Mike to be unfriendly. It was he who noted the passing of his dad on this forum.

 

Sam, not being a motor sport personality (if you like), was not so known and the record of his passing was merely that. Yet Sam I had found to be intensely interesting in the short time I spent with him at the family farm on the opposite side of Lake Seneca.

 

Mike somehow became my friend. He was a party to long phone discussions with me, he made it clear that I'd be most welcome should I make it to America to spend time with him. When I did get there he put Janet and I into a lovely motel room overlooking the lake because the weather was turning cold and, as he put it, "...neither your wife or mine would cope with the cold at the cottage." He referred to the family holiday cottage North of Watkins Glen on the same side of the lake as the circuit.

 

My second trip saw me alone, he and Lee took me into their Chicago home and Mike had to show me around Chicago, explain all the sights, make sure that I learned a lot about the place. And then a couple of weeks later I did get to stay at the cottage with Mike and came to admire his qualities even more as he showed me around his domain. And he took me to the farm and so I met Sam and Jean and I think it was Louise, who all made me feel most welcome.

 

Mike was no longer around when I made my third trip, but I felt a need to drop in and say 'hello' to Jean at the farm. Even though she was long past freely having guests, another one of the boys (Duke?) asked her if she would see me. I was happy to be able to express my condolences to her on the loss of the two boys who'd gone since my previous visit.

 

She really was a lovely lady and she was a part of the force behind the IMRRC in Watkins Glen. But, well into her nineties, she was not with us much longer after my visit.

 

Such a great family of people who'd been a big part in racing at the Glen. To hear that Pete's died is saddening to me. Not yet 70 makes it even more of a tragic loss.

 

But I'm guessing that their example will be motivating those left behind to ensure that the work they've put in will not be left unattended.

 

And to Louise, J.C., Rob, Duke and the other girls, my personal condolences join the very many I'm sure are flowing in right now. And especially to Shelkia, who will forever feel what Jean and Lee have felt, as have I.



#149 RA Historian

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 15:45

 

 

 It was not for Mike to be unfriendly.

 

 

Ray, what a wonderful tribute. I have reread it a couple times because it was so true. I have excerpted just one phrase and posted it here. I think that is such a great description of Mike. I have often stated since his passing that he was the kindest man I ever knew. He could not do enough for anyone, be it a host at his Chicago home or when visiting at Watkins Glen. When I spoke at the IMRRC in 2012 Mike put me up in the best hotel in town and gave the desk clerk instructions that whatever I wanted should be put on his credit card. In addition, he took us out to eat both nights that I was there. It was on that trip that I met you Ray, and we both shared in Mike's graciousness and hospitality. When I would be in Chicago he not only popped for lunch, but would insist I come back to his house with him for beverages and stimulating conversation  with himself and other guests, including my friend Brian Brown, He would always be so solicitous in seeing to our comfort, travel arrangements, schedule, and so on. I will say it again, he was the kindest man I ever knew.

 

As for Peter, I never had the pleasure of meeting him, only seeing him in action on the race track. But I am sure that as an Argetsinger, he also was a superbly nice person.

 

Tom



#150 Tim Murray

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 17:06

The posts relating to Peter Argetsinger have been moved to Peter’s own tribute thread.