1678 replies to this topic

[potmotr]

One very interesting thing I didn't know...

 

When David Coulthard gave his now-famous middle finger to Schumacher at Magny Cours in 2000... he followed it up with a 'wanker' hand gesture.

 

Pure class, I'd never seen this. Was it ever broadcast at the time? I know the finger was, but not the second bit...

 

[FirstnameLastname]

One very interesting thing I didn't know...

When David Coulthard gave his now-famous middle finger to Schumacher at Magny Cours in 2000... he followed it up with a 'wanker' hand gesture.

Pure class, I'd never seen this. Was it ever broadcast at the time? I know the finger was, but not the second bit...

https://www.youtube....h?v=OlRI2_ziEbM

Yep, it was broadcast. I’m sure Brundle made some quip about both gestures at the time.

[messy]

It was a blistering charge... but taken in context it is correct to say it was McLaren, Ferrari... and daylight in 1998. Williams in 3rd was a long way off, Jordan the only other team to win a race. Thanks mostly to DC taking Michael out at Spa.

 

I think they were closer than they are now weren't they? Villeneuve's Williams shadowed Hakkinen home all the way at Hockenheim, Fisichella nearly won in Canada.

[7MGTEsup]

One very interesting thing I didn't know...

 

When David Coulthard gave his now-famous middle finger to Schumacher at Magny Cours in 2000... he followed it up with a 'wanker' hand gesture.

 

Pure class, I'd never seen this. Was it ever broadcast at the time? I know the finger was, but not the second bit...

 

 

The funny thing is being pushed wide on corner exit like that now is the norm.

[PlayboyRacer]

I think they were closer than they are now weren't they? Villeneuve's Williams shadowed Hakkinen home all the way at Hockenheim, Fisichella nearly won in Canada.

Those occassions were more one offs. Benetton fell further back as the season wore on and Williams revised their car, bringing some performance such as Silverstone (JV 3rd in qualy) but mostly only at low downforce tracks... Villeneuve wringing its neck at Hockenheim for 3rd (qualy and race) and also Monza where he qualified a brilliant 2nd.

Other than that, McLaren and Ferrari were generally well out of reach.

[Jazza]

Yeah, McLaren and Ferrari were in a different league.

What is often over looked in 98 is the tyre war. For most of the races that year there was about 1-2 second per lap gap between McLaren and Benetton (both using Bidgestone), and a similar gap between Ferrari and Williams (both on Goodyear). But because the performance gap between Bridgestone and Goodyear was never constant, sometimes the McLarens would walk away up front whilst the Ferrari would be left racing the Benetton’s, and behind them the Williams would be back racing teams like Stewart and Prost (Spain, Canada). However, when Goodyear was having a good day, the Benettons would be nowhere and sometimes the Williams would be lapping faster than the McLarens (France, Hungary).

98 is one of the most misunderstood seasons ever. I don’t even know how people state for a fact that the McLaren was faster than the Ferrari. It was all about tyres that year and we saw massive variations in speed from track to track, and sometimes even during the race (Hungary, Luxembourg). Had Ferrari been on Bridgestones they may have won every race, or perhaps not stood a chance against McLaren. No one really knows how fast each car was because they tyres disguised everything.

[PlayboyRacer]

I think your putting way too much emphasis on the tyre war tbh. Absolutely it was a factor but, just like Williams the season before, on balance McLaren had the best car through the season. Their advantage absolutely was cut down from the first few races but really it took Michaels brilliance for Ferrari to fight them.

One thing that is often overlooked - Coulthard totally underperformed. Only 1 win with that car? That made Schumachers job easier, again just like the year before with Frentzen underperforming at Williams.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 08 January 2019 - 01:31.

[SpeedRacer`]

I think your putting way too much emphasis on the tyre war tbh. Absolutely it was a factor but, just like Williams the season before, on balance McLaren had the best car through the season. Their advantage absolutely was cut down from the first few races but really it took Michaels brilliance for Ferrari to fight them.

One thing that is often overlooked - Coulthard totally underperformed. Only 1 win with that car? That made Schumachers job easier, again just like the year before with Frentzen underperforming at Williams.

 

 

Coulthard did bear the brunt of misfortune though. In fact he was more impressive in '98 than '99, even though he was closer in points in '99 and won an extra race.

 

Off the top of my head he obviously gave up Melbourne, Monza was screaming off into the lead and his engine failed, Monaco his engine failed.

[PlayboyRacer]

As much as he underperformed in 1998 on a whole, his 1999 season was even worse I'll give you that.

[Rinehart]

I think the family is so closed on him because, sadly, he is in a vegetable state. If he was less than that [lets say, able to talk and express himself or sitting in a wheel chair, moving arms, limited autonomy] by now he/family would have said something, and even apeared to the world. I know it's a cruel speculation, but data sugests that. 

 

I just wanted to be wrong and that Michael was at home, with a limited but valuable life, being able to enjoy a meal, watching his son racing, cracking jokes about Max Verstappen and having a sunbath in the garden. If it was like that I would be totaly happy for him and wouldn't mind not seing in public ever again. 

 

I've seen all the articles and news about his 50th aniversary and I still think he is underrated by all of us. As a driver and as a person. 

 

It seems to me that the family have all but confirmed that Michael is still with us but at the same time not really with us. Whilst not stating that outright, in the interests of "privacy"... surely if he was capable of communicating "thank you for the birthday wishes" that would have been communicated. Why else engage in 50th birthday remembrance publicity but not publicly communicate its appreciation? If he could, but they didn't, there would be a bit of having the cake and eating it about that - and I don't beleive they're cynical at all. I think it's a desperately sad situation and there is nothing much to hide. I think in this situation silence is classy. We all know, it doesn't need to be spelt out.

[PlatenGlass]

Coulthard did bear the brunt of misfortune though. In fact he was more impressive in '98 than '99, even though he was closer in points in '99 and won an extra race.
 
Off the top of my head he obviously gave up Melbourne, Monza was screaming off into the lead and his engine failed, Monaco his engine failed.

He had a problem in Argentina which enabled Schumacher to catch him up before they collided - ultimately it was his mechanical problem that cost the win. He also led in Canada but retired with a mechanical failure. I'm not 100% sure but there might have been team orders keeping him behind Hakkinen at Germany when Hakkinen was struggling at the end. He also lost time behind Hakkinen in Hungary when Hakkinen had his problem, and that arguably contributed to Schumacher jumping him. So while Hakkinen was the better driver, I think one win for Coulthard doesn't do his season justice.

[kar]

Something special arrived in the post today. It's going to give my primary and early high school German quite the workout... 

 

[Flyhigh]

I understand the whole argument that his life is no one’s business and therefore the family owe the world no information regarding his condition. But I am finding it ever harder to agree with that position.

Despite the fact that the family have opened up a museum and exhibitions to him (and this since his accident), and that there will soon be a Micheal Schumacher app that likewise goes into all details about his career; they have also now set up an entire charity in his name.

https://www.keepfighting.ms

Here we have what is being described as an entire movement based on both the good will of his fans, as well as the inspiration of the man to never give up, yet the argument for his privacy in this situation is to still be respected?

How? How can anyone be inspired by him to “keep fighting” when they have no idea on his condition or if he is even fighting at all. Note that this charity or movement is not about his career, but instead it is actually focused on the character of the man himself. This is about him as a person being an inspiration to “keep fighting” after his horrible accident.

Surely this has to now be crossing a line when it comes to still asking for privacy when they are also wanting to create a legacy of the man himself that transcends his racing career. This is very much wanting to a spotlight on him in his current state, yet not wanting to tell anyone on what his current state is. That seems to be very much wanting the cake and to eat it as well...

I have been a fan of Schumacher and I think him along Senna, are the best drivers in F1 history. I was a fan of him on and off the track, but I can not embrace this "keep fighting spirit" thing, it just sound to me veil and kind of sick, they way those close to Shumacher decided to handle the situation. I mean Putin, the KGB, CIA, etc. would be proud of the way they have kept basic simple information about his condition completely in the dark. One of the most famous sportsman in history.  

I am not sure even intelligence analyst who visit deeply secretive Nuclear government installations, go through the same screening and media coding in order to not say anything remotely meaningful, like they have done in these last 5 years. Congratulation in achieving that, but I am not sure what is the purpose is and all of this efforts just seems to me kind of paranoid and sick mentally, I hope Corina and the family are receiving good Psychological care about this because I am more worried about their mental health, as far as paranoia goes.  

These statements about #keep fighting, social media campaigns, apps, etc. are completely meaningless to me. I mean, fine, don´t let the fans know anything never if he is in a vegetative state, zombie, a semi conscious state, yet at the same time asks me to support "keep fighting" for what? If we knew the situation, would we really want him to keep fighting, does Michael himself wants to keep fighting and is aware of anything? Sounds just twisted... 

I  send support to those who are kind enough to let me know what I am supporting and well wishing, honestly, If Michael is on a vegetative state barely aware of his existence without being able to communicate that he does not wish to go on for example as a zombie for the rest of his days. I mean "looking at the window and crying" "tears falling down his cheek by looking at a lake" That sounds depressing as hell.... and not the way I would want to go on at all... so I can´t wish to keep fighting... if it is something like this...   

If I wish anything is for the best for Michael himself as an individual, as the person I knew and what he would want for himself whatever it is, and  I hope that he is aware enough to have his wishes met peacefully, that´s all.   

 

Edited by Flyhigh, 11 January 2019 - 19:47.

[Risil]

Michael Schumacher and his family are entitled to privacy. You are entitled to ignore the motor racing world's sympathy for their situation.

[Flyhigh]

Michael Schumacher and his family are entitled to privacy. You are entitled to ignore the motor racing world's sympathy for their situation.

Privacy is one thing paranoia is another, and I believe plenty the majority of the world´s racing is more perplexed by how the situation is being handled than anything. Given his former manager, racing drivers not allowed to visit him and the ones that are, having to learn the incredible craft of speaking without saying anything, not even basic simple things because even one word that can give an window to something... and god forbid, his fans know something true about the situation.

Can you imagine being Montezemolo, Massa or Todt, you go visit him then sometime later on an interview people naturally asks how is your old friend doing, and you have to be able to say something completely meaningless because even saying "he is ok" "He smiles" or something can cause a frenzy of problems?

The whole situation is just an unprecedented bizarre fest. I have sympathy for Michael, that´s it, for his own consciousness or lack of that. That`s where my sympathy lies, and my only hope is that his true wishes as an individual are being met.  

Edited by Flyhigh, 12 January 2019 - 15:50.

[CoolBreeze]

Michael Schumacher and his family are entitled to privacy. You are entitled to ignore the motor racing world's sympathy for their situation.

 

True. Then why the constant reminder on social media? One on side the family is using his name for some foundation thing, and on the hand they don't wanna reveal anything slightest info about him. It does sounds twisted as someone pointed out. You either quietly fade away, or you actually tell everyone what's happening. 

[ensign14]

To be brutal, how about telling us how he is fighting...because I suspect he has been effectively brain-dead for five years and is only alive because of machines in the hope that someone will find a cure.

[pdac]

To be brutal, how about telling us how he is fighting...because I suspect he has been effectively brain-dead for five years and is only alive because of machines in the hope that someone will find a cure.

 

This is the problem. Reading between the lines, I think it is clear that Michael cannot communicate himself to any great extent. He probably cannot walk or do much other than lay in bed or, perhaps, sit in a chair if placed there. If I had someone that I loved change from a very active sporting superstar to this level, then I would not want to talk very much to others. I would just want to spend my time ensuring that he was comfortable and hope that he knows who I am.

 

I suspect this is how the family are feeling. Why on earth people cannot understand their position and realise just how great that trumps their own feelings is beyond me.

[KnucklesAgain]

In 2039 Schumacher family issues a statement.

 

"Unfortunately we have to inform that Michael Schumacher has passed away. He was a legend of Formula One, and for the last decades he has as courageously as ever battled to recover from skiing accident. We will miss him greatly."

 

If so, wondering if they will keep up the smoke screen or at least at this point will say if he actually battled or not.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 12 January 2019 - 23:36.

[Valvert]

This is the problem. Reading between the lines, I think it is clear that Michael cannot communicate himself to any great extent. He probably cannot walk or do much other than lay in bed or, perhaps, sit in a chair if placed there. If I had someone that I loved change from a very active sporting superstar to this level, then I would not want to talk very much to others. I would just want to spend my time ensuring that he was comfortable and hope that he knows who I am.

 

I suspect this is how the family are feeling. Why on earth people cannot understand their position and realise just how great that trumps their own feelings is beyond me.

 

 

That maybe how the family feels but what about how Michael feels? Maybe he is of sound mind but 'locked in'. By isolating him from everyone, they are basically making him a prisoner. A scary thought.

[Logiso]

They love Michael, they’re his family. There’s nobody better qualified to decide what’s best for him. Certainly not us.

[FLB]

That maybe how the family feels but what about how Michael feels? Maybe he is of sound mind but 'locked in'. By isolating him from everyone, they are basically making him a prisoner. A scary thought.

If there is a law in Swtizerland similar to what exists elsewhere, it is likely that the family is following MS's own will. In Quebec, there is something called 'anticipated medical directives' where a person can legally give consent to whatever needs they would have should they be incapacitated, right down to what treatments can be refused. My own mother has such a document, including who to notify first in case anything happens to her.

 

As a racing driver, it was very possible that he could have suffered a debilitating injury during his career. I think it is likely the family is legally acting according to such a document and therefore to MS's wishes. I know I would have one should I be a racing driver.

[pdac]

That maybe how the family feels but what about how Michael feels? Maybe he is of sound mind but 'locked in'. By isolating him from everyone, they are basically making him a prisoner. A scary thought.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the family who are there by his side day after day know better what he wants than you do, perhaps. Maybe, just maybe, they are doing what he wants.

[Flyhigh]

Maybe, just maybe, the family who are there by his side day after day know better what he wants than you do, perhaps. Maybe, just maybe, they are doing what he wants.

They are showing clear sign of some serious paranoia. For example, if I suffer a situation like this,since I am not married yet, I would not want my Mom alone to decide things like this, My mom loves more than anything in this world, but she can get overly emotional and not make rational decisions... plus, she also is more susceptible to psychological things, paranoia, depression, OCD...etc.   

I myself would like to leave my treatment options in severe cases like this open to as many experts as possible, as well as many friends, caring people, in order to make more rational decisions under these unprecedented difficult situation , analyze things deeply under different scope  if I am conscious or not, if I am locked in, if it makes sense to keep me alive under zombie conditions, etc. 

[J2NH]

It is for each person or family to decide.  I have spelled out in my Living Will that I do not wish any extraordinary life saving measures taken and have a designated person who understands my desire as my power of attorney (POA).  I do not want those decisions put on my family as a whole and have asked my daughter, a physician, to make those calls.  

 

This is in the US and I am not sure if this process exists elsewhere.  I view mine as lifting the burden of decision from my family as a whole and unnecessary conflict that can arise as a result.   I would encourage everyone to have some type of Living Will.  

 

As for Michael I respect his families wishes for privacy and pray his recovery is moving forward. 

[Ramon69]

The latest message from his family sounds somewhat encouraging, but I don't have any kind of hopes until we get a more precise statement about his condition.

[TomNokoe]

FOM have also released their first documentary through F1 TV.

"Michael Schumacher: The Making of a Legend" 50 mins, available to anybody with F1TV Access (e.g available in the UK).

Link

I've watched it, it's okay. A little cliché and repetitive at times. Source archive footage looks great upscaled and the piece has a good atmosphere throughout. Same old characters narrating and interviewing, with a few stories you've heard before. 7/10

[FirstnameLastname]

https://www.bbc.co.u...e-east-48020481

Encouraging, although we don’t know Schumis current condition.

A woman in a coma for 27 years has awoken in Germany! What an amazing story. Imagine the shock seeing all the changes to the world since 1992!

[Nonesuch]

Michel Schumacher hasn't been in a coma since a couple of months after the accident, though. At least from what's been stated.

He's just... well, in a really bad shape.

[Jovanotti]

Had my first F1 related dream in years last night, which involved Mick winning a race ahead of his dad

[Marklar]

There will be a documentary in German cinemas on december 5th about Schumacher's career, where his family and other sport figures will be featured talking about him. It will also have never-seen-before private footage. First trailer will be released during the Cannes Film Festival. His current condition will be no subject in this documentary.

Edit: typo

Edited by Marklar, 11 May 2019 - 22:47.

[scheivlak]

There will be a documentary in German cinemas on december 5th about Schumacher's career, where his family and other sport figures will be featured talking about him. It will also have never-seen-before private footage. First trailer will be released during the Cannes Film Festival. His current condition will be no subject in this documentary.

Edit: typo

Article in the Guardian today: https://www.theguard...grabs-at-cannes

[CoolBreeze]

and then the family keeps on reminding everyone on privacy. I really find this whole saga weird.

[jimjimjeroo]

Not sure if this is n official quote from Todt

https://www.itv.com/...in-rare-update/

[ensign14]

Looks a bit similar to the quote in January...

[ANF]

I can't find anything on Radio Monte Carlo's website. However, on 24 June, Marca Claro reported on Todt's "statement" to Radio Monte Carlo (but Marca Claro didn't mention the watching television or communication bits, so perhaps those have been pieced together from earlier interviews):

"Es algo muy privado. Michael está muy bien rodeado, vive con su familia, en su casa, entre Ginebra y Lausana. Sigue luchando. Es lo único que puedo decir a día de hoy", ha asegurado Todt en declaraciones para Radio Monte Carlo.
https://us.marca.com...6e048b4628.html

[Silberpfeil]

Not sure if this is n official quote from Todt

https://www.itv.com/...in-rare-update/

If my memory isn‘t completely failing me here, Todt watching races with Michael (in whatever condition) came up first – and already made the rounds back then – after an interview with the German newspaper “Welt” last November after the race in Brazil, which Todt apparently watched at the Schumacher residence.

So this is hardly news in and of itself, it‘s just that Todt has now repeated the story.

[Dan333SP]

They are showing clear sign of some serious paranoia. For example, if I suffer a situation like this,since I am not married yet, I would not want my Mom alone to decide things like this, My mom loves more than anything in this world, but she can get overly emotional and not make rational decisions... plus, she also is more susceptible to psychological things, paranoia, depression, OCD...etc.   

I myself would like to leave my treatment options in severe cases like this open to as many experts as possible, as well as many friends, caring people, in order to make more rational decisions under these unprecedented difficult situation , analyze things deeply under different scope  if I am conscious or not, if I am locked in, if it makes sense to keep me alive under zombie conditions, etc. 

 

He's a very wealthy man who competed for decades in a very dangerous sport. There is no chance he didn't have an advanced medical directive and a designated medical decision maker in writing at the time of his accident. Switzerland passed a law allowing these documents full authority in 2013, prior to his skiing accident-

 

https://smw.ch/en/ar...smw.2018.14642/

 

I'd find it very hard to believe that the family isn't doing exactly what he spelled out in his medical directive. I know these posts are older, but it's still worth pointing out.

Edited by Dan333SP, 30 July 2019 - 19:29.

[pdac]

Not sure if this is n official quote from Todt

https://www.itv.com/...in-rare-update/

 

Says more about the pathetic setup they have at ITV than about Michael. All of these quoted are from January, yet they are trying to make out it's new stuff. Furthermore, they speculate that Michael "is making progress", even though nothing in the quotes from Todt say or even imply that.

 

There are some disgusting people in the world - a lot call themselves journalists.

[absinthedude]

Says more about the pathetic setup they have at ITV than about Michael. All of these quoted are from January, yet they are trying to make out it's new stuff. Furthermore, they speculate that Michael "is making progress", even though nothing in the quotes from Todt say or even imply that.

 

There are some disgusting people in the world - a lot call themselves journalists.

 

Sadly many news outlets used clickbait headlines such as "Schumacher family reveals heartbreaking new details" simply to tell us about the upcoming documentary film. They know that many people are interest, anxious even, for some news on Michael's condition...hopeful of recovery....and use that the generate clicks. Despicable. ITV aren't quite that bad, but they're not doing a whole lot better.

[Imperial]

If you google his name any day of the week and click on 'news', you'll find an article within the past few days that usually contain the words "heartbreaking" and "update". They're no such thing.

[owenmahamilton]

There's a slightly different version of this story here:

 

https://www.carscoop...ching-f1-races/

 

As far as I'm concerned, the only new part of the story is right at the end where it talks about the possibility of Michael appearing in the documentary that's coming out later in the year. This may be completely untrue I guess we shall just have to wait and see.

[ANF]

Looks like Jean Todt did say a couple of things in the Radio Monte Carlo (RMC) programme Grandes Gueules du Sport which aired on 23 June 2019:


"C’est quelque chose de très privé, a rappelé le dirigeant. Michael est très bien entouré, il vit avec sa famille, dans sa maison, entre Genève et Lausanne, poursuit-il. Il continue à se battre. C’est la seule chose que je puisse dire aujourd’hui."
https://rmcsport.bfm...er-1718183.html (the radio interview is embedded in the article)


These are the same quotes that were published by Marca Claro on 24 June:

"Es algo muy privado. Michael está muy bien rodeado, vive con su familia, en su casa, entre Ginebra y Lausana. Sigue luchando. Es lo único que puedo decir a día de hoy", ha asegurado Todt en declaraciones para Radio Monte Carlo.
https://us.marca.com...6e048b4628.html



Five weeks later, on 30 July, the Sun write an article in which they not only use the quotes above but lots of other things Todt has said previously as well, and they present everything as new information, even using the television bit in the headline.
https://www.thesun.c...n-todt-reveals/

And now ITV and other media outlets – even French – are quoting the rather misleading article in the Sun.

Edited by ANF, 13 August 2019 - 14:30.

[messy]

Dunno if there are any direct quotes but I heard that Ralf Schumacher was quite positive about Michael when inevitably asked at the German GP. Although if that’s true I’m surprised it’s not been more widely reported.

[alonstar]

Where did you hear it?

[Tsarwash]

There was a Telegraph article the other day that basically just reiterated things that Todt had said in the past, but did mention that he had spoken on Radio Monte Carlo on the subject.

 

There is no chance he didn't have an advanced medical directive and a designated medical decision maker in writing at the time of his accident.

We do not know this to be true. 

[messy]

Where did you hear it?

Oh I dunno, twitter or something reliable like that. I tried to retrace my steps and find it, but can’t.

[levi1700]

In Belgium we have a  person, called Stig Broeckx and reminds me a lot of the Schumacher Story.

He was a professional cyclist but he was injured during a stage of the tour of Belgium. He was hit by a loose motorcycle and had severe brain damage and was in vegetative state. He was in a coma for more then 5 months.

The doctors had totally given up on him.

But then the miracle happened.

He woke up and started his recovery step by step.

The point where he is now, is his merit, by working hard and determined to improve and even ride a bike again.

Het visited his ex collegue's in the past Tour de France:

I hope somehow Schumacher has made the same progress. Hope he can enjoy the small things in life and can watch Mick on TV.

Edited by levi1700, 31 July 2019 - 14:34.

[Marklar]

Apparently Schumacher was hospitalized today in Paris for a "experimental treatment", which is supposed to be a infusion of stem cells that should have an anti-inflammatory effect on his whole body. He is supposed to leave the hospital on wednesday again.

He apparently already was there for some examinations earlier this year and supposed to do this treatment already at the end of July, but some "unexpected health problems" prevented it. 

Both Le Parisen and RMC are reporting this, but I would still take this with a grain of salt.

http://www.leparisie...019-8148849.php
 

Edited by Marklar, 09 September 2019 - 19:52.

[Frentzen99]

Apparently Schumacher was hospitalized today in Paris for a "experimental treatment", which is supposed to be a infusion of stem cells that should have an anti-inflammatory effect on his whole body. He is supposed to leave the hospital on wednesday again.

He apparently already was there for some examinations earlier this year and supposed to do this treatment already at the end of July, but some "unexpected health problems" prevented it.

Both Le Parisen and RMC are reporting this, but I would still take this with a grain of salt.

http://www.leparisie...019-8148849.php

Fair play to Corinna and family, they are trying their best.