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Keep Fighting, Michael


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#1101 potmotr

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 16:53

One very interesting thing I didn't know...

 

When David Coulthard gave his now-famous middle finger to Schumacher at Magny Cours in 2000... he followed it up with a 'wanker' hand gesture.

 

Pure class, I'd never seen this. Was it ever broadcast at the time? I know the finger was, but not the second bit...

 



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#1102 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 19:18

One very interesting thing I didn't know...

When David Coulthard gave his now-famous middle finger to Schumacher at Magny Cours in 2000... he followed it up with a 'wanker' hand gesture.

Pure class, I'd never seen this. Was it ever broadcast at the time? I know the finger was, but not the second bit...

https://www.youtube....h?v=OlRI2_ziEbM


Yep, it was broadcast. I’m sure Brundle made some quip about both gestures at the time.

#1103 messy

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:11

It was a blistering charge... but taken in context it is correct to say it was McLaren, Ferrari... and daylight in 1998. Williams in 3rd was a long way off, Jordan the only other team to win a race. Thanks mostly to DC taking Michael out at Spa.

 

I think they were closer than they are now weren't they? Villeneuve's Williams shadowed Hakkinen home all the way at Hockenheim, Fisichella nearly won in Canada.



#1104 7MGTEsup

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 16:51

One very interesting thing I didn't know...

 

When David Coulthard gave his now-famous middle finger to Schumacher at Magny Cours in 2000... he followed it up with a 'wanker' hand gesture.

 

Pure class, I'd never seen this. Was it ever broadcast at the time? I know the finger was, but not the second bit...

 

 

The funny thing is being pushed wide on corner exit like that now is the norm.



#1105 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 22:50

I think they were closer than they are now weren't they? Villeneuve's Williams shadowed Hakkinen home all the way at Hockenheim, Fisichella nearly won in Canada.

Those occassions were more one offs. Benetton fell further back as the season wore on and Williams revised their car, bringing some performance such as Silverstone (JV 3rd in qualy) but mostly only at low downforce tracks... Villeneuve wringing its neck at Hockenheim for 3rd (qualy and race) and also Monza where he qualified a brilliant 2nd.

Other than that, McLaren and Ferrari were generally well out of reach.

#1106 Jazza

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 00:07

Yeah, McLaren and Ferrari were in a different league.

What is often over looked in 98 is the tyre war. For most of the races that year there was about 1-2 second per lap gap between McLaren and Benetton (both using Bidgestone), and a similar gap between Ferrari and Williams (both on Goodyear). But because the performance gap between Bridgestone and Goodyear was never constant, sometimes the McLarens would walk away up front whilst the Ferrari would be left racing the Benetton’s, and behind them the Williams would be back racing teams like Stewart and Prost (Spain, Canada). However, when Goodyear was having a good day, the Benettons would be nowhere and sometimes the Williams would be lapping faster than the McLarens (France, Hungary).

98 is one of the most misunderstood seasons ever. I don’t even know how people state for a fact that the McLaren was faster than the Ferrari. It was all about tyres that year and we saw massive variations in speed from track to track, and sometimes even during the race (Hungary, Luxembourg). Had Ferrari been on Bridgestones they may have won every race, or perhaps not stood a chance against McLaren. No one really knows how fast each car was because they tyres disguised everything.

#1107 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:28

I think your putting way too much emphasis on the tyre war tbh. Absolutely it was a factor but, just like Williams the season before, on balance McLaren had the best car through the season. Their advantage absolutely was cut down from the first few races but really it took Michaels brilliance for Ferrari to fight them.

One thing that is often overlooked - Coulthard totally underperformed. Only 1 win with that car? That made Schumachers job easier, again just like the year before with Frentzen underperforming at Williams.

Edited by PlayboyRacer, 08 January 2019 - 01:31.


#1108 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:11

I think your putting way too much emphasis on the tyre war tbh. Absolutely it was a factor but, just like Williams the season before, on balance McLaren had the best car through the season. Their advantage absolutely was cut down from the first few races but really it took Michaels brilliance for Ferrari to fight them.

One thing that is often overlooked - Coulthard totally underperformed. Only 1 win with that car? That made Schumachers job easier, again just like the year before with Frentzen underperforming at Williams.

 

 

Coulthard did bear the brunt of misfortune though. In fact he was more impressive in '98 than '99, even though he was closer in points in '99 and won an extra race.

 

Off the top of my head he obviously gave up Melbourne, Monza was screaming off into the lead and his engine failed, Monaco his engine failed.



#1109 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:21

As much as he underperformed in 1998 on a whole, his 1999 season was even worse I'll give you that.

#1110 Rinehart

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:56

I think the family is so closed on him because, sadly, he is in a vegetable state. If he was less than that [lets say, able to talk and express himself or sitting in a wheel chair, moving arms, limited autonomy] by now he/family would have said something, and even apeared to the world. I know it's a cruel speculation, but data sugests that. 

 

I just wanted to be wrong and that Michael was at home, with a limited but valuable life, being able to enjoy a meal, watching his son racing, cracking jokes about Max Verstappen and having a sunbath in the garden. If it was like that I would be totaly happy for him and wouldn't mind not seing in public ever again.  :cry:

 

I've seen all the articles and news about his 50th aniversary and I still think he is underrated by all of us. As a driver and as a person. 

 

It seems to me that the family have all but confirmed that Michael is still with us but at the same time not really with us. Whilst not stating that outright, in the interests of "privacy"... surely if he was capable of communicating "thank you for the birthday wishes" that would have been communicated. Why else engage in 50th birthday remembrance publicity but not publicly communicate its appreciation? If he could, but they didn't, there would be a bit of having the cake and eating it about that - and I don't beleive they're cynical at all. I think it's a desperately sad situation and there is nothing much to hide. I think in this situation silence is classy. We all know, it doesn't need to be spelt out.



#1111 PlatenGlass

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 23:08

Coulthard did bear the brunt of misfortune though. In fact he was more impressive in '98 than '99, even though he was closer in points in '99 and won an extra race.
 
Off the top of my head he obviously gave up Melbourne, Monza was screaming off into the lead and his engine failed, Monaco his engine failed.

He had a problem in Argentina which enabled Schumacher to catch him up before they collided - ultimately it was his mechanical problem that cost the win. He also led in Canada but retired with a mechanical failure. I'm not 100% sure but there might have been team orders keeping him behind Hakkinen at Germany when Hakkinen was struggling at the end. He also lost time behind Hakkinen in Hungary when Hakkinen had his problem, and that arguably contributed to Schumacher jumping him. So while Hakkinen was the better driver, I think one win for Coulthard doesn't do his season justice.

#1112 kar

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 09:59

Something special arrived in the post today. It's going to give my primary and early high school German quite the workout...  :love:

 

IMG-6688.jpg



#1113 Flyhigh

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 19:41

I understand the whole argument that his life is no one’s business and therefore the family owe the world no information regarding his condition. But I am finding it ever harder to agree with that position.

Despite the fact that the family have opened up a museum and exhibitions to him (and this since his accident), and that there will soon be a Micheal Schumacher app that likewise goes into all details about his career; they have also now set up an entire charity in his name.

https://www.keepfighting.ms

Here we have what is being described as an entire movement based on both the good will of his fans, as well as the inspiration of the man to never give up, yet the argument for his privacy in this situation is to still be respected?

How? How can anyone be inspired by him to “keep fighting” when they have no idea on his condition or if he is even fighting at all. Note that this charity or movement is not about his career, but instead it is actually focused on the character of the man himself. This is about him as a person being an inspiration to “keep fighting” after his horrible accident.

Surely this has to now be crossing a line when it comes to still asking for privacy when they are also wanting to create a legacy of the man himself that transcends his racing career. This is very much wanting to a spotlight on him in his current state, yet not wanting to tell anyone on what his current state is. That seems to be very much wanting the cake and to eat it as well...

I have been a fan of Schumacher and I think him along Senna, are the best drivers in F1 history. I was a fan of him on and off the track, but I can not embrace this "keep fighting spirit" thing, it just sound to me veil and kind of sick, they way those close to Shumacher decided to handle the situation. I mean Putin, the KGB, CIA, etc. would be proud of the way they have kept basic simple information about his condition completely in the dark. One of the most famous sportsman in history.  

I am not sure even intelligence analyst who visit deeply secretive Nuclear government installations, go through the same screening and media coding in order to not say anything remotely meaningful, like they have done in these last 5 years. Congratulation in achieving that, but I am not sure what is the purpose is and all of this efforts just seems to me kind of paranoid and sick mentally, I hope Corina and the family are receiving good Psychological care about this because I am more worried about their mental health, as far as paranoia goes.  

These statements about #keep fighting, social media campaigns, apps, etc. are completely meaningless to me. I mean, fine, don´t let the fans know anything never if he is in a vegetative state, zombie, a semi conscious state, yet at the same time asks me to support "keep fighting" for what? If we knew the situation, would we really want him to keep fighting, does Michael himself wants to keep fighting and is aware of anything? Sounds just twisted... 

I  send support to those who are kind enough to let me know what I am supporting and well wishing, honestly, If Michael is on a vegetative state barely aware of his existence without being able to communicate that he does not wish to go on for example as a zombie for the rest of his days. I mean "looking at the window and crying" "tears falling down his cheek by looking at a lake" That sounds depressing as hell.... and not the way I would want to go on at all... so I can´t wish to keep fighting... if it is something like this...   

If I wish anything is for the best for Michael himself as an individual, as the person I knew and what he would want for himself whatever it is, and  I hope that he is aware enough to have his wishes met peacefully, that´s all.   

 


Edited by Flyhigh, 11 January 2019 - 19:47.


#1114 Risil

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 11:15

Michael Schumacher and his family are entitled to privacy. You are entitled to ignore the motor racing world's sympathy for their situation.

#1115 Flyhigh

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 15:49

Michael Schumacher and his family are entitled to privacy. You are entitled to ignore the motor racing world's sympathy for their situation.

Privacy is one thing paranoia is another, and I believe plenty the majority of the world´s racing is more perplexed by how the situation is being handled than anything. Given his former manager, racing drivers not allowed to visit him and the ones that are, having to learn the incredible craft of speaking without saying anything, not even basic simple things because even one word that can give an window to something... and god forbid, his fans know something true about the situation.

Can you imagine being Montezemolo, Massa or Todt, you go visit him then sometime later on an interview people naturally asks how is your old friend doing, and you have to be able to say something completely meaningless because even saying "he is ok" "He smiles" or something can cause a frenzy of problems?

The whole situation is just an unprecedented bizarre fest. I have sympathy for Michael, that´s it, for his own consciousness or lack of that. That`s where my sympathy lies, and my only hope is that his true wishes as an individual are being met.  


Edited by Flyhigh, 12 January 2019 - 15:50.


#1116 CoolBreeze

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 17:22

Michael Schumacher and his family are entitled to privacy. You are entitled to ignore the motor racing world's sympathy for their situation.

 

True. Then why the constant reminder on social media? One on side the family is using his name for some foundation thing, and on the hand they don't wanna reveal anything slightest info about him. It does sounds twisted as someone pointed out. You either quietly fade away, or you actually tell everyone what's happening. 



#1117 ensign14

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 18:42

To be brutal, how about telling us how he is fighting...because I suspect he has been effectively brain-dead for five years and is only alive because of machines in the hope that someone will find a cure.



#1118 pdac

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 22:51

To be brutal, how about telling us how he is fighting...because I suspect he has been effectively brain-dead for five years and is only alive because of machines in the hope that someone will find a cure.

 

This is the problem. Reading between the lines, I think it is clear that Michael cannot communicate himself to any great extent. He probably cannot walk or do much other than lay in bed or, perhaps, sit in a chair if placed there. If I had someone that I loved change from a very active sporting superstar to this level, then I would not want to talk very much to others. I would just want to spend my time ensuring that he was comfortable and hope that he knows who I am.

 

I suspect this is how the family are feeling. Why on earth people cannot understand their position and realise just how great that trumps their own feelings is beyond me.



#1119 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 23:31

In 2039 Schumacher family issues a statement.

 

"Unfortunately we have to inform that Michael Schumacher has passed away. He was a legend of Formula One, and for the last decades he has as courageously as ever battled to recover from skiing accident. We will miss him greatly."

 

If so, wondering if they will keep up the smoke screen or at least at this point will say if he actually battled or not.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 12 January 2019 - 23:36.


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#1120 Valvert

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 17:43

This is the problem. Reading between the lines, I think it is clear that Michael cannot communicate himself to any great extent. He probably cannot walk or do much other than lay in bed or, perhaps, sit in a chair if placed there. If I had someone that I loved change from a very active sporting superstar to this level, then I would not want to talk very much to others. I would just want to spend my time ensuring that he was comfortable and hope that he knows who I am.

 

I suspect this is how the family are feeling. Why on earth people cannot understand their position and realise just how great that trumps their own feelings is beyond me.

 

 

That maybe how the family feels but what about how Michael feels? Maybe he is of sound mind but 'locked in'. By isolating him from everyone, they are basically making him a prisoner. A scary thought.



#1121 Logiso

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 18:08

They love Michael, they’re his family. There’s nobody better qualified to decide what’s best for him. Certainly not us.

#1122 FLB

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 18:19

That maybe how the family feels but what about how Michael feels? Maybe he is of sound mind but 'locked in'. By isolating him from everyone, they are basically making him a prisoner. A scary thought.

If there is a law in Swtizerland similar to what exists elsewhere, it is likely that the family is following MS's own will. In Quebec, there is something called 'anticipated medical directives' where a person can legally give consent to whatever needs they would have should they be incapacitated, right down to what treatments can be refused. My own mother has such a document, including who to notify first in case anything happens to her.

 

As a racing driver, it was very possible that he could have suffered a debilitating injury during his career. I think it is likely the family is legally acting according to such a document and therefore to MS's wishes. I know I would have one should I be a racing driver.



#1123 pdac

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 21:37

That maybe how the family feels but what about how Michael feels? Maybe he is of sound mind but 'locked in'. By isolating him from everyone, they are basically making him a prisoner. A scary thought.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the family who are there by his side day after day know better what he wants than you do, perhaps. Maybe, just maybe, they are doing what he wants.



#1124 Flyhigh

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 22:00

Maybe, just maybe, the family who are there by his side day after day know better what he wants than you do, perhaps. Maybe, just maybe, they are doing what he wants.

They are showing clear sign of some serious paranoia. For example, if I suffer a situation like this,since I am not married yet, I would not want my Mom alone to decide things like this, My mom loves more than anything in this world, but she can get overly emotional and not make rational decisions... plus, she also is more susceptible to psychological things, paranoia, depression, OCD...etc.   

I myself would like to leave my treatment options in severe cases like this open to as many experts as possible, as well as many friends, caring people, in order to make more rational decisions under these unprecedented difficult situation , analyze things deeply under different scope  if I am conscious or not, if I am locked in, if it makes sense to keep me alive under zombie conditions, etc. 



#1125 J2NH

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 00:19

It is for each person or family to decide.  I have spelled out in my Living Will that I do not wish any extraordinary life saving measures taken and have a designated person who understands my desire as my power of attorney (POA).  I do not want those decisions put on my family as a whole and have asked my daughter, a physician, to make those calls.  

 

This is in the US and I am not sure if this process exists elsewhere.  I view mine as lifting the burden of decision from my family as a whole and unnecessary conflict that can arise as a result.   I would encourage everyone to have some type of Living Will.  

 

As for Michael I respect his families wishes for privacy and pray his recovery is moving forward. 



#1126 Ramon69

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 08:56

The latest message from his family sounds somewhat encouraging, but I don't have any kind of hopes until we get a more precise statement about his condition.



#1127 TomNokoe

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 22:26

FOM have also released their first documentary through F1 TV.

"Michael Schumacher: The Making of a Legend" 50 mins, available to anybody with F1TV Access (e.g available in the UK).

Link

I've watched it, it's okay. A little cliché and repetitive at times. Source archive footage looks great upscaled and the piece has a good atmosphere throughout. Same old characters narrating and interviewing, with a few stories you've heard before. 7/10