50 replies to this topic

[DennisTobin]

From late 1958 till 1961 when this Lotus arrived in Australia, it is believed to have been stored in John Coomb`s workshop. As I am attempting to validate the cars known history and am hoping there is someone who had a connection with the Coomb`s Race Team in those years or knowledge of wether the car was used in competition or left unused. And why was the Coventry Climax engine replaced with a 997cc Ford engine and gearbox. 

Any imformation welcome

I have had "love affair" with this Lotus since 1989 (owned by Barry Bates) and had the pleasure of racing this car in Australia over a number of years.

The car has recently changed custodians and is now back in GB---Dennis Tobin (AUS)

 

 

[cooper997]

Dennis, interesting news. I can only assume this came about after the the UK-based chap was talking to Barry at PI this year. Based on the car's McLaren history.

 

If I'm on the right track, Paul Parker's 'Sports Car Racing in Camera 1950 -59' has a photo taken at the 13/9/58 Goodwood TT - Coombs entry #24 with Kiwi duo, McLaren & Jensen on p221

 

Stephen

[DennisTobin]

Yes, you are correct---the McLaren history apparently was the decider, when it came to the sale of this car.

With the help of Lotus Fifteen enthusiast, Bill Colsen and Brian Lear, both Historic Racing "historians" we now have most of the previous life of 609, it is just the missing years 1960/1961.

By a chance, Barry found the phone number of Steve Ames (Count Steven Overnoff) GB, given to him many years ago. 

Ame`s was the person who had sold the car to Ann Thompson (Aus).

Amazingly on the second attempt I managed to speak to Steve and tweak 50 year old memories.

He stated that to his knowledge the Lotus sat in the Coomb`s workshop for that missing period but was unsure of why and wether it had been raced at any time

Hopefully there will be someone with Coomb`s connection who can answer the query,was the Lotus raced after 1958 in GB and why was the Coventry Climax and "queerbox" replaced with the 997cc and 4 speed gearbox.

BarryBates whilst sorry to see the Lotus move on, (he has competed in 70 odd events in this car, all over Australia) is very happy with the car he replaced it with.

He is now the cusdodian of the Thompson Ford (ex Ray Kenny) It is a Lola Climax Sports Replica (1962?) powered by a !500cc Ford , but otherwise a close clone of the Lola---DT

[ed holly]

By a chance, Barry found the phone number of Steve Ames (Count Steven Overnoff) GB, given to him many years ago. 

 

 

In the records of my Lotus Eleven,  Count Steve Ouvaroff drove the car at Brands Hatch for George Jamieson probably with advice from Charlie Whatmore who helped George with the purchase, much to the chagrin of Derek Jolly at the time. Great to hear you were able to get in touch with Steve. My Eleven (538) was the only one to be sold new directly into Australia. Guess Chas and George wanted to make sure everything was ok before it left the UK shores, which in fact proved to be the case.

[cooper997]

A line of enquiry could be whether the Climax was liberated from the Lotus chassis for use in the Coombs' Cooper Monaco. Ultimately another car that came to Australia with Bib Stillwell.

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 07 August 2015 - 00:10.

[DennisTobin]

Many thanks Stephen for your interest in this minor mystery. We did have thoughts that the Climax was used in the Cooper Monaco, but somewhere in our paper`s I am sure there is a advertisement for a Coventry Climax to be sold by John Coombs in the period we are researching. Have to go back and check, but the Monaco cenario makes sense.

Hi Ed, Guess a have been mis spelling the Counts surname (spelling mistakes are a speciality of mine)

I am a bit confused (another speciality), are you referring to your Eleven when you state that Ouvaroff drove at Brands Hatch or the afore mentioned FIfteen.

Have to say I am enjoying attempting to piece this all together, shame it was not done years ago Cheers DT

[cooper997]

Dennis, to help with dating things is the June 61 Lowood, the first known Australian or Qld meeting the Thompson/Reed 15 '609' ran at? That also could be the first meeting Bev Fleming ran Ed's 11 '538' at.

 

Another method of tracking 'the lost years' of the 15 is via it's UK rego number '237 PPE'. Hopefully a TNF member knows the tricks around the DVLA system for that or photos of said Lotus carrying the rego.

 

Google brings up Simon Taylor's May 09 Motor Sport Lunch with... John Coombs. Where there's an interesting comment of Chapman making JC sign that his car wouldn't beat the TL cars.

 

Stephen

[ed holly]

Stephen, You sure are correct, I too have June 61 as Bevan's first Eleven event .... he earned a 2nd placing. ... Thanks .... Ed 

[bradbury west]

I know it means a bit of effort, but now you have the reg no, try going through relevant photo archives on the wonderful REVS Institute/Collier  site,  by circuit and years to see if there is any evidence. It is a  fabulous source of period shots and records

Roger Lund

[cooper997]

With this 15 returning to GB that must mean there's now no Lotus 15 in Australia for the first time in 55 years.

 

Here's Barry exercising '609' at this year's Phillip Island.

 

 

Ed, good we're on the same page in regard to the Fleming debut in '538'. This Lowood snippet might be of interest.

"A lot of fast talking took place a week ago. Bevan Fleming made a quick trip from Gympie, disposed of his Twin Cam MG and acquired the Lotus Climax of George Jamieson. This young up and coming driver should do very well with this car."

Edited by cooper997, 26 April 2018 - 11:18.

[275 GTB-4]

any excuse!



and there was one in Tassie many years ago...

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 10 August 2015 - 05:41.

[DennisTobin]

Unfortunately, there is now, no FIfteen`s in Australia anymore.

Thanks for the suggestion on tracing the rego number , I will try this idea 

Steve Ouoaroff, in the short conversation I had with him, suggested that the car was just left to collect dust in those missing months.

I was hoping there would be a person with connections with the Coombs workshop who would known if this was the truth..

[Ray Bell]

There was never a Lotus 15 resident in Tasmania...

Jolly's car raced there, Matich raced his there IIRC, but none lived there.

[275 GTB-4]

Penguin

[Ray Bell]

That's not a Lotus 15...

Not even a Lotus, I wouldn't think. Possibly an Elfin Streamliner.

Steel wheels, no headrest, front guards don't come down over the wheels.

[275 GTB-4]

Ohhh Dash it! that's dashed my hopes of there being an unknown Lotus XV in a barn in Tassie

[Ray Bell]

Look hard enough, Mick, and you'll find something even more valuable...

I have it on good authority that there's a Lotus 32B down there and it's got an FPF in it.

[cooper997]

I was hoping there would be a person with connections with the Coombs workshop who would know if this was the truth..

 

Dennis, I suspect to get any pace to this search you will probably need to contact Jaguar people to see if any known Coombs mechanic are still about. Maybe contact with Paul Skilleter might be helpful on this front. http://www.paulskilleterbooks.co.uk/

 

I was having a flick through 'Roy Salvadori Racing Driver' by Salvadori & Pritchard last night and note that it appears the Lotus he used for the 12/4/58 Oulton Park meeting appears to be another 15 prior to '609'.

 

Stephen

[DennisTobin]

Thanks Stephen, The Fifteen used by Salvadori and Pritchard for the Easter Goodwood meeting and 12/4/58 Oulton park was the first customer car, which had been sold to Peirre Berchem who consequently loaned it to Coombs for these events.

The mystery car appears to be "Elfinish" but not so around the posterior section---very pretty car

Dennis

[john medley]

Hi Dennis and all
May look like I am off topic, but your plaintive cry of "Last Lotus 15 in Australia" echoes my own sentiments and prompts me however to hit you with a teaser that another well known Lotus as of this morning looks like it is on its way back to Australia. I am not at liberty to disclose more

[DennisTobin]

Hi John, That little snippet of information certainly fires up the imagination---I know which Lotus I would like it to be ---no hints aye!

[SJ Lambert]

It's not the 39, plus 10 then ?

[cooper997]

Here's a couple of screen grabs from Goodwood's McLaren tribute with this Lotus 15 present.

upload a gif[/ur

free upload image

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 13 September 2015 - 11:48.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Look hard enough, Mick, and you'll find something even more valuable...

I have it on good authority that there's a Lotus 32B down there and it's got an FPF in it.

good grief!

[Ellis French]

Penguin

Derek Holden in the S/C Simca Special with Lotus replica body...car still in Tassie

Several cars built in Tassie used the same moulds....Le Mans Jaguar in later form (Paramount Jag) and the Gremlin 

Edited by Ellis French, 13 September 2015 - 21:29.

[275 GTB-4]

Ellis to the rescue, once again!...Cheers, Mick

[cooper997]

Because of the dreaded postimage fix ups, i've stumbled upon this thread again. It also highlighted that another of Graham Howard's SCW Lotus features would be a worthy addition to the thread.

 

Written nearly 40 years ago, but still a good read on the 3 Lotus Fifteen's that graced the race circuits of Australia around 60 years ago.

 

 

 

 

more to follow...

 

 

[cooper997]

 

 

 

ends.

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

From memory, the Anne Thompson car had a 1500cc engine by the mid-sixties...

Confirmation of at least one occasion is in the RCN of November 1964. It states there that Anne was using the 1500cc (pushrod_) engine out of Scott's Lotus 27.

I recall seeing the car at Lakeside with Scotty at the wheel and it certainly wasn't a 1-litre car that day either.

[ed holly]

I was recently advised by the UK Lotus Seven registrar that my Lotus Seven S2 (1938) arrived in Australia with a Lotus Cosworth MkXVI twincam 1500cc and in fact was the only S2 Seven to leave the factory with a twincam. The record shows it arrived minus radiator as I guess the bulk of the twincam meant that a normal radiator couldn't be fitted. The details given by the registrar included the twincam's engine number and with the help of the Australian Lotus Seven registrar we were able to trace the engine from the Seven to Glyn Scott's Lotus 27 and the engine from Glyn Scott's car went into Anne Thompson's Lotus 15.  So Ray you are correct.

Edited by ed holly, 26 April 2018 - 23:02.

[Kenzclass]

Best bet for tracking down a period ex-Coombs mechanic would probably be through Ken Bell, who was the workshop manager and main force in the modification of the Coombs Mark 2 Jags. Ken would be the other side of 75 these days.
Last contact details I have for him (and son Peter) are:
Ken & Peter Bell
email: petebell@ntlworld.com

Edited by Kenzclass, 27 April 2018 - 06:32.

[cooper997]

In the recent Middle Ridge thread Ed Holly posted the 1961 'Toowoomba Races' feature from the pages of November 1961 RCN. I'm hoping he might be kind enough to post it here because it shows the still UK-liveried Thomson Lotus Fifteen (and hoping he can edit it back into the Middle Ridge thread after it went missing because of postimage changes).

 

Here's the car from 2015 Phillip Island Classic while the car's longtime (now former) keeper, Barry Bates awaits in the PI marshalling area with TNF member, Dale Harvey

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 29 April 2018 - 10:42.

[ed holly]

Here they are ...

 

 

 

Edited by ed holly, 29 April 2018 - 22:40.

[cooper997]

Ed, thank you. Much appreciated.

 

Now without sounding like a complete pest, when you have a spare moment could you edit the brilliant John Ellacott photos back into the Longford and Cooper T51 in Australia threads also please?

 

I hope to get to your early Lotus sales thread soon to restore the missing images I had previously posted within it.

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

But please, Ed, restore them by editing the posts they're in...

Not by posting them again as many have comments that came afterwards.

[ed holly]

Ray, not sure I know what you mean ?

[Ray Bell]

Did I misunderstand what was going on?

I thought you had reposted the stuff above from an earlier post in this thread.

If you haven't done it, to fix pics you've previously posted, go to that post, it will have a URL for the pic in the post like:

[ img=https://s26.postimg.org/hdlm36khl/0217fr_RBrennmaxnose.jpg]

And you change it to this:

[ img=https://s26.postimg].cc/hdlm36khl/0217fr_RBrennmaxnose.jpg]

That is to say that you change the 'org' to 'cc'.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 30 April 2018 - 07:41.

[cooper997]

The August 1961 AMS published this Brier Thomas photo of the Ann Thompson-owned/Alan Reed driven ex Coombs Lotus 15 at the June 1961 Lowood meeting.

 

Stephen

 

 

[cooper997]

It's been quite awhile since this thread has been at the top of the page...

 

I see on Bob Williamson's 'Old Motor Racing photographs - Australia' Facebook page that Roger Wills is looking for information / registration evidence for the ex Coombs Lotus 15 that spent decades in Australia.

 

 

He writes...

"I wonder if this group can help me. A few years ago, I purchased the Barry Bates Lotus XV and had it restored to John Coombs Racing livery as it was driven in 1958 by Bruce McLaren, Syd Jensen, Roy Salvadori, etc. The car was shipped to Australia in 1959 so most of its history is Australian. When it arrived in Australia, it was wearing a UK registration number 237PPE and I would like to try to have the UK authorities reinstate this number however, they want more period evidence that it was registered as 237PPE in the UK before it left for Australia.

I know there are a couple of excellent books on historic race cars in Australia and probably the car appeared in some of these books as well as in period magazine articles covering race meetings etc.

The ownership history of the car is as follows:

OWNERSHIP HISTORY

John Coombs 1958-1959

Count Stephen Ouvaroff (aka Steve Ames) 1959-1960

Graham Howard 1960-1961

Ann Thomson 1961-1968

Allan Swenson 1968-1983

Barry Bates 1983-2015

Roger Wills 2015 to now

We also know some of the races it appeared in:

61 TBC Alan Reed TBC

TBC Ann Thomson TBC

Lakeside (test day) Frank Matich N/A

14/11/65 Australian TT - Lakeside Glynn Scott TBC

??/??/66 Lowood Ann Thomson DNF

??/09/66 Ann Thomson 1st x 2

Can anyone assist with references, photos or any mentions in any period books, magazines etc? Your help would be very much appreciated.

A few photos:

Goodwood quite recently

The August 1961 AMS published this Brier Thomas photo of the Ann Thompson-owned, Alan Reed driven ex Coombs Lotus 15 at the June 1961 Lowood meeting

 Karousel Lakeside Australia showing 237PPE

 Zoomed in version of the other photo"

https://www.facebook...685295068881227

 

 

Clearly some data / images have come directly off this thread. But how Graham Howard fits into the ownership so early on has me a bit perplexed.

 

After 9 years since leaving Australia, I have to wonder if the car with its original registration of 237 PPE is to enhance an auction sale? Regardless it should have the right to 237 PPE again.

 

Marc Schagen is the likely best source to get Club Lotus Australia to help verify things.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

[Geoff E]

Interestingly, registration numbers of the form 123 PPE seem not to have been issued until Spring 1960.

 

https://www.oldclass...trations/pe.htm

 

(The PPE reference in 1951 was for the form PPE 123)

[Dale Harvey]

It's been quite awhile since this thread has been at the top of the page...

 

I see on Bob Williamson's 'Old Motor Racing photographs - Australia' Facebook page that Roger Wills is looking for information / registration evidence for the ex Coombs Lotus 15 that spent decades in Australia.

 

 

He writes...

"I wonder if this group can help me. A few years ago, I purchased the Barry Bates Lotus XV and had it restored to John Coombs Racing livery as it was driven in 1958 by Bruce McLaren, Syd Jensen, Roy Salvadori, etc. The car was shipped to Australia in 1959 so most of its history is Australian. When it arrived in Australia, it was wearing a UK registration number 237PPE and I would like to try to have the UK authorities reinstate this number however, they want more period evidence that it was registered as 237PPE in the UK before it left for Australia.

I know there are a couple of excellent books on historic race cars in Australia and probably the car appeared in some of these books as well as in period magazine articles covering race meetings etc.

The ownership history of the car is as follows:

OWNERSHIP HISTORY

John Coombs 1958-1959

Count Stephen Ouvaroff (aka Steve Ames) 1959-1960

Graham Howard 1960-1961

Ann Thomson 1961-1968

Allan Swenson 1968-1983

Barry Bates 1983-2015

Roger Wills 2015 to now

We also know some of the races it appeared in:

61 TBC Alan Reed TBC

TBC Ann Thomson TBC

Lakeside (test day) Frank Matich N/A

14/11/65 Australian TT - Lakeside Glynn Scott TBC

??/??/66 Lowood Ann Thomson DNF

??/09/66 Ann Thomson 1st x 2

Can anyone assist with references, photos or any mentions in any period books, magazines etc? Your help would be very much appreciated.

A few photos:

Goodwood quite recently

The August 1961 AMS published this Brier Thomas photo of the Ann Thompson-owned, Alan Reed driven ex Coombs Lotus 15 at the June 1961 Lowood meeting

 Karousel Lakeside Australia showing 237PPE

 Zoomed in version of the other photo"

https://www.facebook...685295068881227

 

 

Clearly some data / images have come directly off this thread. But how Graham Howard fits into the ownership so early on has me a bit perplexed.

 

After 9 years since leaving Australia, I have to wonder if the car with its original registration of 237 PPE is to enhance an auction sale? Regardless it should have the right to 237 PPE again.

 

Marc Schagen is the likely best source to get Club Lotus Australia to help verify things.

 

 

Stephen

Graham Howard was the owner immediately before Barry Bates. So the order has been stuffed up.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Cooper997

.....14/11/65 Australian TT - Lakeside Glynn Scott TBC.....

 

Assuming that 'TBC' means 'To be confirmed', I can  corfirm this...

 

Glyn Scott finished third in the second preliminary heat and then ran in company with Les Howard's 1100cc Lotus 23 and Frank Demuth's Lola Mk1 for many early laps. He then pitted (reason unstated) but rejoined after losing several laps and presumably finished the race.

 

Scott also raced closely with Howard in the 23 in the July, 1966, meeting, while at the February Lakeside he gave Ayers a hard time in his 1500cc twin cam Lotus 23 in a couple of races. At the March Lowood meeting Scott again pushed the Ayers 23 hard until the twin cam drove the later car away down the straight. The old 15 led the 23 again at the May Lakeside with Scott at the wheel but after two laps the 23 went ahead.

 

There was a Queensland Tourist Trophy race at Lowood on June 12 and Anne Thompson was in the 15, coming in fifth behind Ayers, Peter Caldwell (Tojiero Climax), Tim Harlock and Power. August 7 at Lakeside Scott was down to drive his new 23, but it didn't make it through practice and he drove the 15 instead to take three second places and to cut his lap time down to 63.7 seconds compared to 67s nine months earlier.

 

The September 25 Lakeside, for locals only, saw Scott a non-starter in his 23 yet again (burned hands) and the 15 was not run at this meeting. Similarly, the October Lowood didn't see the 15, but Mrs Thompson drove it to a mid-field finish on November 27. I can see no mentions of the car at any Surfers Paradise meetings. Nor can I see any double wins by Anne Thompson in September, 1966.

 

I can go through more reports if it's needed, anything from mid-1963 on. Then again, I don't know what records Marc has on the car's performances, that might shortcut things.

[Ray Bell]

From Marc's book... and also the lens of Brier Thomas...

 

Game challenge. At the July Lakeside, Glynn led the 23 for a couple of laps, then chased it hard the rest of the way.

 

By the way, it's from Marc's book that we can identify the true lineage of ownership of the car.

[cooper997]

Geoff E,TNF member & TVR enthusiast, Rob Pennington tried to bring me up to speed some years back on the English registration system and although I managed to work it out for the project involved at the time, it's a difficult process to get one's head around.

 

 

Dale, that's how I understood the Graham Howard ownership, as directly before Barry. Hence being perplexed how it could be messed up so easily.

 

 

Ray, Glyn Scott was entered in the very first Surfers Paradise meeting with both the Lotus 15 and his 27. By very first I mean the test run for Qld drivers only, April 1966 meeting.

 

 

Stephen

[Rupertlt1]

PE is a Surrey registration?

 

https://library.revs...and-prix/423814

 

https://library.revs...t-trophy/456635

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 13 May 2024 - 11:28.

[Ray Bell]

That Surfers meeting was not reported in either RCN or AMS, Stephen...

 

I have a feeling I've read about it somewhere but cannot find it in either of these magazines.

[Michael Oliver]

I believe I can add something useful to this topic. I recently came across the following for sale advertisement in Autosport, 9th December 1960 p819:

 

"Lotus XV, 1958, now fitted with specially tuned Ford 105E engine, four-speed Ford gearbox and A30 diff. unit. Car raced during 1958 season but not during 1959 or 1960. Price £850. For further details, apply Box 3795."

 

I believe this to be chassis number 609-1. The advertisement is very clear that the car was not raced in either 1959 or 1960.

[cooper997]

For some period of time i've had the first Lakeside, Qld meeting programme of March 1961. it probably helps towards an answer to a question I raised earlier in this thread regarding whether June 1961 Lowood. meeting was the earliest known event for the Lotus 15 '609' in Qld / Australia.

 

Here's the events entered (and I've thrown in the other Lotus for good measure)

March 19, 1961 QSMC Queensland Touring Car Championship, Lakeside – 1^st meeting

Event 1 Grand Parade 12noon p17

2 Mrs A Thomson Lotus XV 997cc

4 Chas Whatmore Lotus Climax 1475cc

28 A B Coventry Lotus FJ 997cc

Event 2 Celebrities Scratch race 5 laps 12.15pm p19

4 Chas Whatmore & Co (C Whatmore) Lotus Climax 1475

28 A B Coventry Lotus FJ 997

2 Mrs A Thomson Lotus XV 997

Event 5 Sports Car Scratch Race 10 laps 1.55pm p25

4 Chas Whatmore Lotus Climax 1475

2 Mrs A Thomson Lotus XV 997

Event 8 Racing and GT Car Handicap10 laps 3/40pm p29

28 A B Coventry Lotus Formula Junior 997 2m 20s

Event 9 Invitation Handicap 12 laps 4.05pm p31

(handicap to be written in)

4 Chas Whatmore Lotus Climax 1475

28 A B Coventry Lotus FJ 997

2 Mrs A Thomson Lotus XV 997

 

Given Michael's recent Autosport advert find quoted in the previous post, makes it doubtful Ann waited for that 9/12/60 Autosport to reach Australian shores to find the car. (given even July Motor Sport is out in UK and I've only got the April issue that arrived in Oz newsagents late May).

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Brian Tebble in Ann Thomson's 15 at Mount Cotton Hillclimb.

 

Brian was BMC (Australia)'s Queensland Advertising & PR manager, hence why this photo appears in the May-June 1968 The BMC Rosette newspaper

 

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

From a venture south for the Qld drivers and a note from former BARC man, Geoff Sykes who added something from the home country...

 

Sunday December 17, 1961 Warwick Farm National Open Meeting

AARC Notes – by G P F Sykes p3

“Also from the pineapple country we are pleased to see Glyn Scott, Max Volkers, Bruce Coventry, and Mrs Ann Thomson, who is one of the more experienced competitors in the Ladies’ race.

“Mrs Thomson’s Lotus was at one time driven by Roy Salvadori with a more powerful engine, and the car still carries it’s Surrey, England registration number.”

 

Event 2 Sports Cars Scratch Race under 1500cc 10 laps 12pm

26 Mrs A Thomson Dvr A Reed (Res) (Qld) Lotus Ford 997 White

Event 9 Ladies Handicap Race – 5 laps 4.30pm

26 Mrs A Thomson (Qld) Lotus Ford 997 White 0.05 hcap

 

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 23 June 2024 - 05:29.