13 replies to this topic

[DuncanFlint]

Hi,

I'm looking for some help on a project I'm doing.  Currently I'm working on scratch building models of 50's and early 60 small displacement sports racing cars.  Many of these had the Coventry engine which has become a sticking point.  Details for other engines I'm interested in are diffcult but not impossible to find, but I can find almost nothing on this engine as far as dimensions go. 

 

One things that really puzzle me is how the front of the head is shaped.  Where the timing chain runs would have to be at a very strange angle based on the cam cover shape.  This is the problem with using photos that are not square on.  Parallax is a real demon when guessing where it all goes.

 

Also, the pan to deck, and crank center to deck dimensions.  I just made a guess at it based on what looks right.  I have ordered two books on the Coventry engines, but won't know how valuable those will be for a week or two.

 

I would be most appreciative of any help offered.

 

Thank you.

 

Bill

Edited by DuncanFlint, 12 August 2015 - 01:15.

[Ray Bell]

Bill... two things...

No, it's just one. Send me an e-mail (as I suggested a day or two ago) but this time include the pictures you want posted. Nobody will put up with the pop-ups they'll get trying to look at your link.

[Ray Bell]

Here's the drawing to which Bill refers:

[SJ Lambert]

Have you contacted Crosthwaite and Gardiner? They were quite willing to advise me on dimensions of various FPF engines recently.

 

http://www.crosthwai...x_fw_series.pdf

[andybrad]

I have several here complete and striped my direct mail andrew.bradshaw432@btinternet.com also marinised ones for albatross speed boats if you want to make one of them.

Edited by andybrad, 12 August 2015 - 17:08.

[DuncanFlint]

Have you contacted Crosthwaite and Gardiner? They were quite willing to advise me on dimensions of various FPF engines recently.

 

http://www.crosthwai...x_fw_series.pdf

 

Thanks SJ.  Some parts in there I hadn't thought about yet.  Downloaded and saved in my folder. 

 

Andy, email sent.

 

Thanks guys.  You have all been really helpful. 

[DuncanFlint]

Received some very helpful pictures from Andy today.    Looks like I'm good to go.  A few corrections and I can start on the master.  I'll need several of these so I'm going to cast them in a low melt alloy.

 

Now I don't suppose any one has a Lotus Mk 8 or 9 laying around? (JK)  Found out the 10 doesn't use this engine, but it looks pretty much the same.

 

Once again thank you.

Bill

[Joe Bosworth]

Further help on FWA engine. 

 

Depending on sump configuration from bottom of sump to top bolts of cam cover through the centerline of the stroke is 19.2 inches.  Widest part of block is at the sump/block interface which is 9.1 inches wide.

 

Regarding your comments on Louts' laying around: I presume you are looking around to see a FWA installation.  Should be easy at almost any historic race meeting of any note.  Almost every Lotus 11 or 17 you find wiill have one.  So will virtually every Elvis 1B, 2, 3, 4 and 5.  Ditto Lola 1s.  A few Lotus 6s were FWA powered as well as very few Sevens but don't race up to any you find and expect to find a FWA powered one.  Ditto for FWA  powered Lotus 8s. Most Nines had them and as you note no Tens which were mostly (exclusively??) Bristol driven. The Lotus Elite Type 14 were (almost) all FWA powered but these are getting a bit rare to find out and about.

 

The timing chain runs were a very simple straight and short run given that the cam was driven from the a dummy cam off to the side of the crank on the side opposite the carbs.The dummy cam drove the distributor and oil pump.

 

Thousands of viable photos exist if you dig only a little bit.

 

Regards

[Charles Helps]

Further help on FWA engine. 

 

... The Lotus Elite Type 14 were (almost) all FWA powered but these are getting a bit rare to find out and about.

 

...

 

Regards

 

FWE (1216cc) in the Elite to be pedantic, Joe

 

Good luck with the project, Bill (oh and the engine maker is Coventry Climax).

[Joe Bosworth]

Chas:

 

You are quite correct.  I referred to the Type 14 only becuse the FWA and FWA have virtually no identical external differences and certainly no difference in external dimensions for the purposes that Duncan stated that he has, ie building scale models of Climax engined cars.

 

In fact, a lot of historic cars that originally were 1198 cc powered have evolved into the 1216 cc form to take advantage of the extra peerformance.  I personally don't believe that this should be allowed but for most practical purposes enforcing this has been put in the too hard basket.

 

Having raced in the under 1100 cc class extensively in both the US and Oz in the hey day period of the class I never new of anybody that ran a FWE as a cheater.

 

Regards

Edited by Joe Bosworth, 20 August 2015 - 20:41.

[Peter Morley]

As Joe says the FWA & FWE blocks are (externally) dimensionally the same but the FWB (1460cc) & FWE (1220cc) blocks do have bulges in the sides to clear the longer stroke crankshaft and they are very easy to see, so it is very easy to spot such a block.

Of course it is possible to use the later block to build an FWA (1098cc) but the chances are someone would accuse it of being oversized with the potential for expensive examinations, so people would presumably have tried to avoid doing so.

 

As for having a Lotus 8 or 9 lying around, I have a 10 here, which as Bill says is very similar to an 8 - chassis & body are very similar the most noticeable difference being the bonnet bulge and treatment behind the front wheels to allow more air out on the larger engined 10, resulting in just two dzus fasteners holding the nose on as opposed to 3 on an 8, also most 8s had rear wheel covers - most (four) 10s ran Bristol engines but one had a Connaught engine and mine ran with MG & Coventry Climax engines and will have a small Offenhauser as was originally intended.

Enginewise, four 8s had MG engines, one 1172 Ford, one Connaught, one Coventry Climax and one Turner modified Lea-Francis.

The 9 is quite different being two feet shorter but the basis of the chassis is similar.

 

I'd of course be very interested in a model of a 10 so let me know if I can help...

 

Peter

[DuncanFlint]

My apologizes for not getting back sooner. No excuse. but I have been working on the master and after several restarts I finally have something going. To my surprise hard wood machines much like metal. I really expected the wood would just be torn up. I had been laying up thin sheets of wood, brass, and plastic but machining a solid block of maple made keeping it all straight and square easier. I also made a lot of scraps trying to carve in details. I finally found a product call Apoxie that dries rock hard but takes incredible details without the sharp edges crumbling. I'll have to say I was impressed that it worked as advertised.  The only draw back is the 24 hour wait for the drying.

 

Thank you for all the additional information.

 

Joe,

I measured my model block width at its widest point and it is 9.8”(scale inches). I'm measuring to the extreme edges of the blocks bolt flange. Actually I'm using a drawing of the sump tray in a Coventry FWA manual to get that dimension. http://www.97330.com...e/qage_A_4.html

Is 9.1” an inside dimension? The bottom of the pan to the highest bolt in the cam cover is 19.4 but that is easy to lower. If I'm wrong that is enough difference that I may need to start over again.

 

Peter,

I did a little searching for your car and found you at VRL. Is that your Lotus with what looks like an Offy in it? I found your post about the Jag engined car. Don't know what the owner was thinking, but it gave me a good idea of how small the FWA must be. Great shot of the front suspension. I have started making the drawings for the chassis, but a lot of it is guess work. The rear suspension isn't too bad as there are a number of photo showing it, but the Lotus/Jag photo is the best and only one I have for the front. I'll push more to get the engine finished so I can start on the frame. Your help in this area would be most welcome. Thank you.

 

I do have a quick question. Cast into the block are the oil fill and Distributor mounts. On my model they are only 2” wide at the top.  It looks right on the model, but it seems way too small to be correct. If I could get the diameter of the distributor cap that would help.     Meausring error on my part.  Looks better now.

 

Bill

Edited by DuncanFlint, 29 September 2015 - 01:07.

[Joe Bosworth]

bill

9.1 inches is across the outside of the pan bolting flange.  I don't have a FWA sitting around on the bench but estimate that the pan bolting flange is about 5/8 inch/16 mm wide.

 

Regards

[Peter Morley]

Bill
Yes my Lotus has an Offy in it (as James Dean intended fitting) - at the moment the Offy is at the engine builders but the rest of the car is more or less finished and with me.
Peter