20 replies to this topic

[Egon Thurner]

Is there any correct evidence, in which races 1946 Sommer used the old 6CM (with 4CL-engine?) and in which other races the 4CL? Please don't list Sheldon's results now, they are wrong in this detail - for sure.

And from an older 8W-game: In the Why I found the following:
' At the end of the war he (Sommer) brought out the 308 ... before abandoning it for a Maserati 4CL (here at the Coupe du Salon race in Bois de Boulogne). '


But, that's not Sommer in the 1946 Salon Cup - is he? Who can solve this puzzle?

[alessandro silva]

The picture shows Ruggeri in the Coupe de la Resistence 1946, Bois de Boulogne. Originally in John Eason Gibson "Motor Racing 1946".
The original caption reads: "Ruggeri wrestling a bit but not going very fast".

[Egon Thurner]

Thanks Alessandro!

And the other question, anybody ?

[Egon Thurner]

Well. After more than a year has passed by, let's try again. The open question is:

Is there any correct evidence, in which races 1946 Sommer used the old 6CM (with 4CL-engine?) and in which other races the (Milano-)4CL? Please don't list Sheldon's results now, they are wrong in this detail - for sure.

[Hans Etzrodt]

If somebody knows, it would be Alessandro.

[alessandro silva]

The following can be said about the Maserati that Sommer raced during 1946.
The car sported Scuderia Milan badges and had no external oil-cooler. When the Scuderia entered other cars for a race, it did also for Sommer’s car.
It appears in photographs in races at the Bois de Boulogne, St. Cloud, Albi, Salon and Marseille. Paul Sheldon lists it as a 6CM chassis with a 4CL engine, causing some headaches to chassis numbers adepts.
A photograph in Crumb de la Rive Box where an identical car is captioned as a 4CL, adds to the confusion since another identical one (with white stripe on the nose though) appears driven by Cortese at the 1939 Targa Florio listed as a 6CM (photo in Orsini Zagari book).
I have found conclusive evidence that Sommer used a car as the one listed by Sheldon during 1946/47.
Indeed, Ian Connell drove a car loaned to him by Sommer during the 1947 season, identical to the one in the photos mentioned above.
I wrote to Connell and he aswered that it was indeed a 6CM chassis with a 4CL engine.
It is not clear, either, when Sommer purchased this car. It was, in any case, Sommer’s property by the end of the season.
So, Sommer used the 6CM/4CL in the races mentioned above and very likely at Forez and Perpignan. I do not have conclusive photo evidence for Geneva, Milan and Turin, though I would bet that it was always the same car.
At the beginning of 1947 Sommer had two Maseratis in his shop: the 6CM/4CL and the 4CM/4CL most likely the ex-Hug chassis 1555CM with 1572CL engine. It was the second one – painted in light blue - that Sommer used throughout 1947 and part of 1948.

Egon, I’ll send you the Talbot stuff during the week.

[Egon Thurner]

Indeed interesting.

I didn't know the loan (or sale) of the 1946-Sommer-car to Connell (or/and Evans ?). But I remember a car, still existing in Great Britain, black colored now and still raced in some historic events (at least at Goodwood 1999 or 2000, IIRC), that very nearly resembles that unique looking car. Could well be that one. Where are the experts ? Maybe David ?

P.S.:
Why only did Sommer change cars in the beginning of 1947. Was the 4CM / 4CL the better one ? What were the differences of the 4CM- and 6CM-chassis ? The series of chassis-numbers of both types is the same, both types well mixed.

[alessandro silva]

that unique looking car.

Loaned, not sold, to Evans and Connell. It was returned to Sommer in August 1947.
Not unique. The picture in Crumbox is very likely Nuvolari's car at Tripoli 1940 and Sommer's in 46. A very similar car, but with slight differences, was driven by Cortese at the Targa Florio in 1939 (as a 6CM). Louveau's car (usually listed as a 4CL) at the Bois de Boulogne, St Cloud, Albi 1946 is identical to the latter and very similar to Sommer's.
Armand Hug's 4CM/4CL was notoriously among the fastest Maseratis in 1939. Besides, Sommer's workshop in Puteaux was extremely well-organized with good mechanics. The chief mechanic had worked already in Sommer's father airplane factory in 1913! Sommer's Maseratis in 46/47 could be very well called Sommer-Specials.

[Egon Thurner]

Ah, that helps. I already reconized the similarity of Louveau's car from a picture of the Salon-race in 1946, but the position of the crankhole is higher than on Sommer's car. Maybe you are talking of this, Alessandro ?

BTW: The '1559' (ex-Bianco 1938), could that have been the mentioned Louveau-car ?

[alessandro silva]

Originally posted by Egon Thurner
Ah, that helps. I already reconized the similarity of Louveau's car from a picture of the Salon-race in 1946, but the position of the crankhole is higher than on Sommer's car. Maybe you are talking of this, Alessandro ?

I am afraid not. Louveau's car at the Salon race was a "true" 1946 Milan car, either 1579/80/81.
Cortese's 1939 car, Louveau's car at the Bois, St Cloud, Albi, had the same sloping front as Sommer's.

The 4CM chassis had a shorter wheelbase than the 6CM or 4CL. Some driver (Trossi for instance) found it a better one.

[barkr]

Well..I'm no expert..but I have found only one other indication of Sommer's 1946 Coupe du Salon Scuderia Milano-entered 4CL racing during the rest of the '46 season. And this is in the hands of Ruggeri, Coupe de la Resistence, Bois de Boulogne.

All of Sommer's 1946 races, apart from the Coupe du Salon, appear to have been with the 6CM/4CL subsequently loaned to Ian Connell. This does, however, leave a large gap in the exploits of this 'other' Sommer 4CL during the rest of 1946.

My theory is that this Ruggeri/Sommer 4CL, was in fact used for the Scuderia's 1946 hillclimbing exploits...just a hunch. Anyone got a listing of entries?

I believe, post-Coupe du Salon, Sommer purchased his winning Scuderia Milano car, painted it blue and entered it in selected 1947 events. Clearly, pictures of Ruggeri (Boulogne '46), Sommer (Salon '46), and Sommer (Pau '47) indicate that this is one of the same car. The same ex-Sommer 4CL, R.E. Ansell piloted in the first British G.P. 1948, Zandvoort, and Jersey, etc. and subsequently sold to Australia via Henry/Peter Dale 1950/51.

This car being the ex-Hug/Sommer 4CM/4CL 1555.

[Egon Thurner]

Originally posted by alessandro silva
At the beginning of 1947 Sommer had two Maseratis in his shop: the 6CM/4CL and the 4CM/4CL most likely the ex-Hug chassis 1555CM with 1572CL engine. It was the second one – painted in light blue - that Sommer used throughout 1947 and part of 1948 .

Originally written by alessandro silva in his 8W-article about the 1947-season
French 1946 Champion Raymond Sommer went through a frustrating season. After the many victories obtained the preceding year he could not finish a single race during 1947. Two cars were used by the “Ardenne’s Boar”: a personal Maserati 4CL, the ex-Milan chassis 1579 (now painted blue) and the unreliable two-stage Milan-Maserati, with the engine modification carried by Scuderia Milan technical director, professor Mario Speluzzi.

Originally posted by barkrI believe, post-Coupe du Salon, Sommer purchased his winning Scuderia Milano car, painted it blue and entered it in selected 1947 events . Clearly, pictures of Ruggeri (Boulogne '46), Sommer (Salon '46), and Sommer (Pau '47) indicate that this is one of the same car. The same ex-Sommer 4CL, R.E. Ansell piloted in the first British G.P. 1948, Zandvoort, and Jersey, etc. and subsequently sold to Australia via Henry/Peter Dale 1950/51.

a) If the conclusion is correct, that Sommer's 1947-Pau car is identical with Ruggeri's Coupe-de-Resistance-car, i would agree with the cars s/n being #1579.
b) There is less doubt, that Sommer's Pau-1948 and Ansell's second Maserati (British GP 1948) is identical. And it is always referred to be #1555/1572.
c) first question: are Sommer's Pau-1947-car and Pau-1948-car identical?
d) second question: if c) = yes: what is correct: #1555/1572 or 1579 ??

[David McKinney]

I'm never very confident with 4CL numbers
However, the present (or recent) owner of the ex-Ansell car, which later went to Australia, told me that although the facia-mounted plate says 1555, the frame is stamped 1579. Others (eg DCN) say 1579 was an alternative number for 1577. No 1572 there anywhere

[Egon Thurner]

So it's all the same car, two chassis-numbers are existing and visible, even now. Really cool.

And about the engine-number?
#1579 was born with engine #1577 ('alternative number' as mentioned above)
#1555 got engine #1572, ca. 1939

[alessandro silva]

It seems that there is no doubt that Sommer 1947 4CL was one the [apparently new] 1946 Milan cars, precisely the one delivered on May tenth 1946 to the Ruggeris wqith engine 1577. This is the car sold to Bob Ansell in late 1948.
It seems also true that Sommer had the use (I do not know if he owned it or not) of the rebuilt ex-Hug car 1555 which had a very distinctive front end already in pictures of 1945 when owned by the Swiss Waeffler. Sommer appeared in it for PRACTICE in Nice 1946, then this car reappeared in 1948 Pau driven by Louveau and entered by Scuderia Milan. Why? Because Sommer used to avoid either custom duties or because of restrictions on imports from Italy the chassis number 1555 for 1579. Sommer was not new to these kinds of tricks.
I do not know which engine was mounted in 1555 during 1948, 1572 being of course the number of the works 4CL engine given by the factory to Hug in 1939 owing to his excellent performances.
The rebuilt 1555 id also photographed in the hands of the Spanish team at Albi 1948 whwn they arrived with four cars hired from Scuderia Milan but only three raced.

[Egon Thurner]

Hi Alessandro, you bet yourself! I had two questions and got three answers. The third one was Louveau's Pau-1948-car. You are always one or two steps ahead.

What about your book? Any chance to read it soon?

[uechtel]

Interesting to read Waeffler´s name in this context.

As I understand, this means, that he swapped his Maserati with Sommer´s BMW sports car? Or perhaps both vecame co-owners of the two cars? This would explain why Waeffler still had a French license plate on the BMW and the Swiss AND the French flag at the front.

[barkr]

Scuderia Milan 4CL Chassis#1579 in 1948 with Bob Ansell (standing).
Car is still painted light blue after use as Sommers' "personal" 4CL in selected 1948 events.

[Kvadrat]

Is it at Silverstone?

[alessandro silva]

Yes it is Silverstone, RAC GP 1948.
George Bainbridge at the wheel of the Maserati.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Alessandro , I have tried to mail you but got a "failure" return ! Please mail me at : kjerbjoern@hotmail.com