62 replies to this topic

[RedFever]

First, this is not a flame bait, I am simply interested in finding out whether someone has some historical facts to justify his hatred for the Italian team.

I found this bit from Imola, which is represents a quite odd way of thinking, if you ask me:

"We hate to lose, but if we have to, we prefer that its to our good friends and competitors at Williams".

Which, if my English is decent enough, I want to win all the time, but I know it's not possible. So, if I got to lose, I rather lose to Sir Frank rather than those red cars. After all, the red cars were the only one that could have beaten him instead of Frank.

Now, I am interested in finding out why Ron hates Ferrari this much. It can't be because they have been his toughest competitor in the past 3 years and took 3 out of 6 titles away from him. After all, Frank was responisble for detroning McLaren in the early 90s and in the past 20 years Ron received far more beatings from Sir Frank than the red squad. So, that's can't be the reason.

I expect someone to jump right away on the FIA pro-Ferrari attitude, but that is bollocks as well (unless Ron is that stupid). Everyone who has followed F1 for a while, knows the FIA is not pro-Ferrari but anti-#1 Team. In other words, the FIA attempts to limit the leadership of the strongest team, so to have equality which guarantees exciting championships. It so happened that in 98 McLaren was that team, so some decisions might have been more beneficial to Ferrari and the other teams behind, rather than McLaren. But just look back at the early 90s and you will see FIA decisions clearly pro-Williams, while Williams was trying to catch the WDC leadership.

So, I am buffled. Ron is a very smart man, he must know the FIA is not really there after him. So, why, for Pete's sake he gets traumatized when a Ferrari beats him, but it's OK to lose to a Williams????? has Schumacher's decision to stick with Ferrari instead of moving to McLaren been a factor in this odd behavior???

[BuzzingHornet]

Maybe its because recently the rivalry between the two teams hasn't been very amicable, they both have potshots at each other and to be honest both of them are as bad as each other

Ron is very annoying though, its great to see Frank kicking his arse again!

[RedFever]

BH, I know, it's a good point, but this is not the first time the rivarly between two teams got out of hand. It happened before and Sir frank is certainly not a little angel or a friendly nice bloke like Eddie Jordan. It seems to me there is something personal, because in Imola there was no reason for this, DC had reached Schumi, Schumi had a DNF, they were ahead of Ferrari in Ferrari's home track. It was gratuitous. Maybe he and Jean Todt? I doubt he and Luca have a personal issue, but Jean Todt also never spares Ron a low blow when he can, so maybe these two are the reason for this???

[5319]

Why does RD hate Ferrari

He does?
I thought he was just a paranoid.

[RedFever]

[BRG]

OK - some history. Ron Dennis and Sir Frank Williams go way back, as drivers, race mechanics, constructors and team principals. Both started in a similar way from a very small start. The early days of Williams in F1 would make Minardi look impressive.

Both have been competing on a similar footing all this time and as private team owners, they have similar viewpoints. Theirs is a friendly rivalry - both want to win and to beat each other, but like for instance Finnish rally drivers, if they can't win themselves, they would rather the other won instead of some "outsider".

Ferrari on the other hand are the grandees, the aristocrats of the sport. Even today, with his mega budget and Mercedes tie-in, Ron Dennis does not see himself and McLaren as being on an equal footing with Ferrari. So perhaps there is a bit of an inferieority complex there, who knows.

Then, as mentioned by others, there has been all the McLaren/Ferrari bitterness and sniping and the constant suggestion of FIA favouring Ferrari. Ron is much closer to the sport than we are, so you have to wonder if he knows more than we do?

But the bottom line is that Ron Dennis regards McLaren winning as the natural order of things and that second place is the first of the losers, and he is not interested in losing. Personally, I think he needs to be a bit more sporting, but perhaps there would be no super successful multi-million dollar McLaren International if Ron Dennis had been a sportsman. Maybe you have to be a bastard to succeed in F1.....

[magic]

ron's best and worst moment was end of last race of '93.

senna's 104th mac racewin meant that they had surpassed ferrari's wintotal of 103 at that moment.

it had taken ferrari decades to reach that amount and they were leading the pack, including mac bigtime in 1980.
that year dennis took over the declining mac.
with dennis at the wheel of mac they became the most succesfull in less than 14 years.
he never got the credits he deserved.
that hurt.

what hurt him too was realising that with senna gone, it'd be harder to keep the advantage.

the rest is history.

[Garagiste]

Perhaps it's because of Ferrari's massive popularity?
I recall Alan Jones saying a few years back when Mac were in that slump that people "don't mind seeing Mclaren lose, because nobody likes Ron Dennis".
I have to say he's not so far wrong. Respect is due to RD sure, he's a very professional, shrewd operator. It's just that he comes across as a bit....... gitty.

[MuMu]

Ron doesn't like Ferrari.
Todt doesn't like McLaren.
Frank doesn't like Ferrari.
Prost doesn't like Arrows etc etc etc.

It's called competition and they're constantly slagging each other off - it's not that uncommon in sports.

[man from martinlaakso]

I think, that there really is big hostality between Ron Dennis and the leaders of the Ferrari team. It might have started years ago, and it certainly increased because of the Sepang GP in 1999. Ron thought, that the FIA decision was unfair and that FIA wanted Ferrari to win at any cost. And of course FIA was pro Ferrari and anti McLaren at that time, because McLaren was #1 and Ferrari had not win a title for decades. In any sport it is important, that all the big teams will win a title from time to time.

It is clear, that Ron does not like the Ferrari style to nominate the team's #1 driver, before the season has even begun. Williams is closer to McLaren than Ferrari in its policy towards its drivers.

[Max Torque]

It's only natural I think.

For example, in my country, in soccer we have three big teams that have won 99% of all national championships.
Two of them are the biggest and equal (we call them "immortal enemies"), the third one is a little smaller but still big enough.
I am a fan of the one of the two big ones. I hate the other one to the death.
When we lose the championship, I'd rather the third team get it EVERY time than see that other hated team take any at all.
I believe this is all too natural.
RedFever, I don't know which football team you support, but if say, you are a Milan fan and you lose, don't you rather see Juventus fail as well and some other neutral team win?

Plus, it is the nationality thing.
Don't you prefer a fellow countryman (and possibly friend) win than some rival foreigner?

[TheDestroyer]

Are you searching for something deeper than Ferrari beat them alot?

BTW, RD will hate Williams if they start performing better than McLaren.

[gray_cat]

Originally posted by BRG
OK - some history. Ron Dennis and Sir Frank Williams go way back, as drivers, race mechanics, constructors and team principals. Both started in a similar way from a very small start. The early days of Williams in F1 would make Minardi look impressive.

Ferrari on the other hand are the grandees, the aristocrats of the sport. Even today, with his mega budget and Mercedes tie-in, Ron Dennis does not see himself and McLaren as being on an equal footing with Ferrari. So perhaps there is a bit of an inferieority complex there, who knows.

As a matter of fact, the lives of Ron Dennis, Frank Williams and Enzo Ferrari may have more in common, than one thinks. If Ferrari became the aristocrats of the sport, it is definitely through hard work, rather than 'birth right';)

Name: Ron Dennis, born June 1, 1947

Born and brought up in Woking, Dennis left school at 16 and became an apprentice mechanic at the Thompson & Taylor garage, near the old Brooklands racing circuit. He did a part-time vehicle technology course at Guildford Technical College. When Thompson and Taylor was taken over by the Chipstead Group Dennis was transferred to the Cooper Car Company, another Chipstead subsidiary and started work in motor racing on the production line building Formula 2 and Formula 3 Coopers. When he was 18 he became a mechanic with the Cooper Formula 1 team, working with Jochen Rindt. The Austrian stayed with Cooper until 1968 when he joined Brabham and Dennis went with him and found himself working as mechanic to Jack Brabham after Rindt moved on to Team Lotus in 1969.

A bad road accident forced Dennis into a managerial role and the ambitious Dennis was soon planning his own cars.

In September 1980 Marlboro engineered the merger of McLaren and Project Four to form McLaren International. In 1981 Dennis took over the entire operation and the following year convinced Mansour Ojjeh* to join the operation. Ojjeh funded the TAG turbo engines and the McLaren-TAG combination became one of the most formidable forces in F1 history, winning World titles with Niki Lauda in 1984 and Alain Prost in 1985 and 1986. In 1988 McLaren allied with Honda and the McLaren-Hondas of Prost and Ayrton Senna dominated the year, winning 15 of the 16 races. Senna won the title but Prost had his revenge in 1989. The steamroller continued to win World Championships with Senna in 1990 and 1991 but then Williams became

Honda withdrew from F1 at the end of 1992 and Senna left the team in 1993. There followed a series of poor seasons until 1997 when the new McLaren-Mercedes alliance began to produce results and in 1998 Mika Hakkinen and David Coulthard dominated the World Championship. That success continued in 1999 when Dennis sold 10% of his 40% share in the team to DaimlerChrysler AG.

Enzo Ferrari (1898-1988)

Enzo Ferrari was born in Modena on February 18 1898. Forced to leave school when his father died, he started work as a turning instructor in the Modena Fire Brigade'workshop. Having served in World War I he found work as a test driver in Turin in late 1918. He then moved to CMN (Costruzioni Meccaniche Nazionali) in Milan to work as a racing car driver and test driver.

His racing debut came in the 1919 Parma-Berceto race and he entered the Targa Florio that same year. In 1920, he moved to Alfa Romeo establishing a relationship that lasted two decades and a career that took him from test driver to race driver to sales assistant and finally to the post of Director of the Alfa Racing Division until November 1939.

In 1929 he founded the Scuderia Ferrari in Modena, with the prime purpose of organising racing for its members. That was the start of an intensive involvement in motor racing which led to the creation of an official team and ultimately transformed the Scuderia into an engineering-racing division of Alfa Romeo, taking over the racing function entirely in 1933. In 1940 the Scuderia abandoned the Alfa Romeo connection and transformed itself into an independent company.

In 1960 the business was turned into a joint stock company in which FIAT became a 50-50 partner in 1969. (FIAT became the majority shareholder in 1988).

Under his leadership (1947-88) Ferrari won over 5,000 races all over the world and earned 25 world titles

[GraDee]

Maybe theres an underlying reason but IMO it's just that Ferrari are the opposition and Ron is a bitter bitter man.

Ok, that's nasty but he does tend to act a little like some of the "****" haters around here :-)

[jimm]

The accusations of cheating have followed Brawn around for a while. It was actually proven in sports cars before he started F1. There was obvious thoughts about it in '94 and it has presisted throughout his tenure at Ferrari. I am not trying to say that there is truth to this but RD and FW have had a united front against Brawn/MS since 97 (anyone remeber JV pulling over at the end of the race in Jerez?) It could be that they think that they cheat or maybe they see Brawn as some sort of out sider as Ferrari are the only major team based outside of England. Who knows?

[Rainbowtrout]

This dog has been beaten to death more than once!

Oh well, let's beat him some more!!!

[tifosi]

A lot of people are bringing up fairly recent happennings as to why Denis hates Ferrari so much. Ron Denis' hatred of Ferrari goes way, WAY back. Long before Sepang, Michael Schumacher, or the # of victories won. I would suspect it goes back to the FOCA wars. McClaren and the other 'assemblers' vs Ferrari and other automotive 'constructors'. Enzo Ferrari was a very ruthless competitor. There is very little that he wouldn't do to win, and I'm sure the smaller car assemblers felt "put down" by Ferrari, the man. All during the 70s, 80s and even much into the nineties, Ferrari branded merchandise accounted for 85-90% of all F1 related merchandise. The numberis much lower now, but Ferrari still accounts for a large portion of F1 liscenesed products. When you go into markets that are not "into" F1, everyone knows who Ferrari is. Who ever heard of McClaren?EVen during the heydays of the late eighties, with McClaren ruling the competition, the grand stands were filled top to bottom with Ferrari flags. At many tracks, once the Ferraris drop out the grand stands would empty, and not just Monza and Imola. I'm sure all this contributes towards the hatred RD has for Ferrari.

All in all I would put the "hatred" down to

- Lingering feelings from the FOCA wars.
- Pre-FOCA war days, when Ferrari (the man) held enormous sway in the F1 world.
- Basic stiff competition
- And lastly, I'm sure a little bit comes from the fact they are Italien.

[Rainbowtrout]

I remember Ron saying he finds it laughable that Ferrari is considered a myth.

I think it boils down to simple jealously.

Jealousy of all the red hats in the stands at races.
Jealousy of the beautifull road cars sold by Ferrari.
Jealousy of the inordinate amount of attention generated by Ferrari.

Jealousy that's all.

[CONOSUR]

I think the reason is baser than most realize. I believe it has to do with Ferrari being an Italian team. Most Brits (nothing personal about the members here, so don't go off on a rant) seem to really believe that modern F1 is their sport, and the thought that an Italian team could ever best anything British is extremely hard to take.

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by CONOSUR
I think the reason is baser than most realize. I believe it has to do with Ferrari being an Italian team. Most Brits (nothing personal about the members here, so don't go off on a rant) seem to really believe that modern F1 is their sport, and the thought that an Italian team could ever best anything British is extremely hard to take.

I totally agree with you.

You may also add that both the French and British are very jealous of the myth surrounding Ferrari road cars.

I personally think the British build beautifull sports cars themselves.

The old Jags and Aston Martins are works of art, no doubt about it.

It's unfortunate Ford took over Jaguar, it is going to lose some of its uniqueness. You can bet the bean counters from Detroit will run into the ground in no time.

[gray_cat]

Originally posted by CONOSUR
Most Brits (nothing personal about the members here, so don't go off on a rant) seem to really believe that modern F1 is their sport, and the thought that an Italian team could ever best anything British is extremely hard to take.

Combined with the fact that Ron's Woking outfit is completely dependent on foreign engines, technology and money already, and slowly slipping out of Ron's fingers to DaimlerBenz all together. All this doesn't make Ron feel better towards self-sufficient Italian concern and it's principals, who have more real power than he.

Ron Dennis was born the same year when Enzo started his own Scuderia - now he reached the heights of his own power, but finds himself on the way down, his share in McLaren dwindeling, and he still hasn't surpass the achievements of the Comendotore

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by gray_cat

Combined with the fact that Ron's Woking outfit is completely dependent on foreign engines, technology and money already, and slowly slipping out of Ron's fingers to DaimlerBenz all together. All this doesn't make Ron feel better towards self-sufficient Italian concern and it's principals, who have more real power than he.

Ron Dennis was born the same year when Enzo started his own Scuderia - now he reached the heights of his own power, but finds himself on the way down, his share in McLaren dwindeling, and he still hasn't surpass the achievements of the Comendotore

To add insult to injury that road car of his isn't the most beautifull car I've ever seen. Now I know some of you think it is the best thing since slice bread but it doesn't compare to a 360 Modena in my view.

550 Maranello? not even close!

[John B]

Is it possible RD's animousity is a carry-over from as far back as the infamous wars of the early 1980s, when the 'kit car' brigade with their mostly Cosworth engined chassis feuded with the constructors, including Ferrari, Renault, and Alfa Romeo? Enzo Ferrari was known to have humorous disparaging terms for the British teams (I think "Assemblatori" or something like that may have been one of them). Anyway, Williams and McLaren were both involved in the water tank controversies and both boycotted the San Marino race in 1982. Perhaps they formed a strong enough bond/dislike for Ferrari that has managed to last 20 years, I don't know. The team dynamics are roughly similar in that both Williams and Mac still acquire engines from outside companies while Ferrari still builds its own. Certainly during 1997 ("Mika very helpful, Jacques," "Today (after Jerez) the good guys won") the dislike was evident, and obvious throughout 1998.

[george baird]

You can't like everyone, anyway what would be the point in hating Williams, Jordan etc. especially as they are on your door step and Ferrari ain't.

[CONOSUR]

To add more insult to injury, Ron's losing his British team to a German conglomerate, while being spanked by Italians. Now, if that's not extremely hard for a true Brit to take, I don't know what is.

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by george baird
You can't like everyone, anyway what would be the point in hating Williams, Jordan etc. especially as they are on your door step and Ferrari ain't.

Exactly, better off hating those damm foreigners!!!

[Mischa]

..or in other words, Ferrari's got what Dennis wants: love and loyalty. God only knows why, but...

[Mrv]

Who cares what Ronny thinks about Ferrari!!!

[CONOSUR]

Originally posted by Mrv
Who cares what Ronny thinks about Ferrari!!!

True. Oh so true.

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by Mrv
Who cares what Ronny thinks about Ferrari!!!

Because we are losers and like to know what Ron thinks of us!

[gray_cat]

Originally posted by Rainbowtrout
To add insult to injury that road car of his isn't the most beautifull car I've ever seen. Now I know some of you think it is the best thing since slice bread but it doesn't compare to a 360 Modena in my view.

550 Maranello? not even close!

I cannot agree - Mac F1 has prominent spot in my 1:18 display (the other cars are Ferraris, of course ;)).

It is worth mentioning, though, that McLaren F1 is a brainchild of Gordon Murray, who envisioned this brilliant design many years ago, back in his Brabham days. A special entity - McLaren Cars - was established at the initiative of Mansour Ojjeh and Murrey, Ron Dennis himself had little to do with that (he may have been against the diversion from F1 actually). Murrey convinced his old friends in BMW to design the unique engine, when Honda refused. McLaren F1 sport racing programme was controlled primarily by BMW.

[Rainbowtrout]

Doesn't the back of the car slightly look like the 360 Modena?

I happen to have one of those in my 18:1 collection, metallic grey! A beauty.

I'm aiming for one in the garage!

[gray_cat]

Originally posted by Rainbowtrout
Doesn't the back of the car slightly look like the 360 Modena?

Well, MacF1 is 10 yaers older than F360 - so if it does, it's the other way around ;).

Mac was designed by Peter Stevens, who also did XJR-15 (not bad) and Lotus Elise (that I don't like). McLaren F1 styling was exceptional and definitely influenced few designs in the 90s, Corvette for example.

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by gray_cat

Well, MacF1 is 10 yaers older than F360 - so if it does, it's the other way around ;).

Mac was designed by Peter Stevens, who also did XJR-15 (not bad) and Lotus Elise (that I don't like). McLaren F1 styling was exceptional and definitely influenced few designs in the 90s, Corvette for example.

Don't have a problem with that!

[Vetinary]

Originally posted by 5319

He does?
I thought he was just a paranoid.

"Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not after you"

To be seriuos, Ferrari, as was previously claimed in this thread, are considered to be the "aristocrats" of the F1 bunch. The term "Ferrari" is world-wide known inside and outside of motorsports. I'm quite sure that, were you conducting a survey, Ferrari would have been chosen as the car which most people wants to drive in and own.

Dennis, as grey_cat had already mentioned, had started out as a mechanic and made his way up along the sport ladder. By the time he entered F1, Ferrari were already a legend.

It could be that what we're seeing here is the ancient rivalry between the "Aristocracy" and the "neuvoux-riches". Dennis probably knows that no matter how many times he and his team will beat up Ferrari, the ordinary non-F1 fan will probably say "Ferrari" when asked about racing cars, and I'm sure he doesn't like it at all.

[Garagiste]

John B,
My name is the term Enzo used to describe the British "Kit Car teams".
I use it with great pride:)

[vroom-vroom]

The most accurate translation of "garagiste" is "repair shop mechanic". So you can see how Enzo (and all his financial backing from FIAT) managed to infuriate the "kit car teams" who, btw, didn't have access to factory turbo engine technology, income generated by TV rights, and influence on rules & regulations changes.

The FOCA/FISA war was essentially a revolution, a fight for survival, of the poor teams against the power of the factory entries (and their allies). If the former had not been succesful, they'd have been sent into oblivion.

[Williams]

I think Ron Dennis has an affection for things British, including the other British teams, and sees Ferrari as a threat to the British domination of the sport. At Jerez 97, there were allegation of collusion between Williams and McLaren, and Ron's statement after that race neatly summed up his attitude: "In the end, the good guys won", he said.

[BRG]

Originally posted by Williams
I think Ron Dennis has an affection for things British, including the other British teams, and sees Ferrari as a threat to the British domination of the sport.

Much as it pains me to disagree with "mein host" Williams, can I point out that far from being the zenophobic Brit that several posters have depicted him as, Ron Dennis always says that McLaren ISN'T a British team. He regards it as international. He has almost always used non-British drivers, has had engine deals with Japanese (Honda) and German (TAG-Porsche, Mercedes & BMW throught the road car) manufacturers and most McLaren sponsors are not British.

Someone accused him of jealousy of Ferrari - well when McLaren have matched Ferrari's record of WCs and race wins, and taken half the time to do it, Ron has nothing to be jealous about.

But the suggestion that Ron resents the mystique and the hold that Ferrari has on so many pepole's imaginations is perhaps near the mark. Yes, Enzo Ferrari started as a "garagiste" himself, but the team is now the aristocrat of the sport, whilst Frank and Ron are still parvenus. But today's parvenu is tomorrows aristocrat...

[Williams]

Umm...BRG there's a difference between a "zenophobe" and a Anglophile. I don't believe that RD hates non-Brits as much as he dislikes British domination of F1 being threatened in any way. If another team is going to win in F1, I think he would prefer it was a British team.

As for Ron's international scope, I believe he's happy for any help he can get to win, as long as it's his team that wins.;)

However I do agree that part of Ron's problem may be with Ferrari itself.

[Merlin]

I'd say that losing to Williams in the early 90's wasn't that hard for Ron because the Williams at that point was so much better car. But losing now to Ferrari is so hard because Ferrari wins while their car is inferior. And Ferrari-tactics have made Ron look silly many times.

[BRG]

Originally posted by Williams
I don't believe that RD hates non-Brits as much as he dislikes British domination of F1 being threatened in any way. If another team is going to win in F1, I think he would prefer it was a British team.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. What I meant was that I don't believe that Ron sees this as a British versus non-British affair. He has had a long personal relationship with Frank Williams as competing team owners and they are friends because of that, not because they are both British. Ron would rather Frank wins if he can't, but I doubt if that feeling really extends to Arrows or Jaguar or any other "British" team. But I am sure that he would be happy to see Minardi or Prost etc win instead of Ferrari.

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by Merlin
But losing now to Ferrari is so hard because Ferrari wins while their car is inferior.

Rory Byrne would be pounding my desk in intense frustration if he happened to read stuff like this.

I return you to your Ron Dennis soul searching.

The_Z_Man

[Peter Perfect]

I don't think it's got anything to do with nationality.

I think Ron realises that even if the macs win both the WDC and the WCC for the next twenty years straight they're never going to be seen in the same light as Ferrari.

The macs will always be seen as a cold, sterile team compared to the passionate Ferrari regardless of the reality of the situation.

I think Ron realises that he can never win that battle so he would rather someone he sees as being in the same position as him winning, i.e. Frank.

[MrAerodynamicist]

As the saying goes, "Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate." For what ever reason, as some point there has been a falling out between McLaren and Ferrari, the dislike/hate becomes self-fulfilling and why it started doesn't seem to matter anymore.

OTOH, IMO there is not a (pair of) team owner(s) more respected than Frank and Patrick. I think you'd have trouble finding anyone who actually hate them (well, other than certain fans/lunatics and sacked drivers! ) I believe because they always seem to play it straight, never getting too political combined with an uncanny ability for winning.

[HartleyHare]

Well done, Williams for marking the difference between Anglophile and Xenophobe. It seems there are many here who are Anglophobes. And the request to ignore such stupidity with a side comment like 'not anyone on this BB, just other Brits' is insulting. RD has plenty reason to dislike Ferrari. The fact that he has not talked about how much he dislikes Sauber or Minardi or how much he respects Benetton or Arrows shows that this is not some Italian hating, Brit loving lunatic.

Once again the Anglophobes display their bigotry with pride. Hurrah!

And you have the gall to talk about the envy the Brits have for Ferrari? Seems to be an undercurrent of envy of the successful British teams amongst some of the posters here. What have the British to fear? They have a strong and enduring presence in F1. Italians have too, through Alfa, Ferrari and countless smaller teams.

Pathetic that this nonsense is paraded routinely on the board.

[gray_cat]

Originally posted by Garagiste
My name is the term Enzo used to describe the British "Kit Car teams".

The term describes any "Kit Car team", like Tyrell and Cooper. It just happened most were British (or NZ) due to the structure of British-style 'cottage industry', I guess.

After all, while both characters are strong self-made-men types, Ron's education was done in a garage, while Enzo worked and learned his trade with the leading industrial players.

Enzo Ferrari also disliked Ford for it's bullish tactics and 'we will just buy everything' American-style thinking. He was very unhappy with Porcshe 'silhouette' cars, which, as he claimed, destroyed sports car championship.

Enzo refused to speak any language other than Italian.

The point is, Enzo was as much Italian nationalist as Ron is English(British).

[ebe]

Well he hates the red, because they are so much more famous
to the world than his cars. A Ferrari is know by a whole lot of people, whether they do know something of F1 or not.
A McLaren is only known by people who are interested in F1,
his name is even more unknown. Nowadays it is even more a Mercedes than a McLAren, this hurts RD.
What even more hurts is the fact, that even if he wins more than the reds, they are still more important.

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by HartleyHare
Well done, Williams for marking the difference between Anglophile and Xenophobe. It seems there are many here who are Anglophobes. And the request to ignore such stupidity with a side comment like 'not anyone on this BB, just other Brits' is insulting. RD has plenty reason to dislike Ferrari. The fact that he has not talked about how much he dislikes Sauber or Minardi or how much he respects Benetton or Arrows shows that this is not some Italian hating, Brit loving lunatic.

Once again the Anglophobes display their bigotry with pride. Hurrah!

And you have the gall to talk about the envy the Brits have for Ferrari? Seems to be an undercurrent of envy of the successful British teams amongst some of the posters here. What have the British to fear? They have a strong and enduring presence in F1. Italians have too, through Alfa, Ferrari and countless smaller teams.

Pathetic that this nonsense is paraded routinely on the board.

Nicely put.

I do love English car design. Along with the Italians I think they make the most beautifull and unique cars. It is too bad you've lost most of it to the Americans, I hope you keep that English look.

[daydream]

Ron Dennis is a crazy fella.......he is on the verge of insane, all the things he said and do shows evidence of a man who is mentally unsound!

of course, Ron is jealous of Ferrari, just look at his McLaren F1 road car design. It looks like **** when compared to Ferrari cars. Sure Ron must be very mad when the reception he got from his road car is pretty bad compared to what Ferrari get!