23 replies to this topic

[Gavvn]

 Hello,

 

 I have a letter dated 1957 from Dr Manton to my grandfather who was involved with Elva.

The letter is 17 pages long and is about a car they were about to build.. if it is of interest I can reveal its content, he doesn't seem very pleased with Mr Chapman.

 

The only reference I can find is this-

 

http://www.worthpoin...money-281933282

 

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

   Gavin. 

Edited by Gavvn, 26 October 2015 - 03:30.

[Rupertlt1]

Graham Hill drove a Lotus Eleven for Dr Manton during the 1957 season.

The car may be here, can anybody identify it?

 

https://revslib.stan...rch_match=exact

 

I have Goodwood International Meeting, 22 April 1957, Event Three Chichester Cup, 4th overall E.G. Manton (Dvr G. Hill) Lotus-Climax, 16 min 53 sec

 

An unidentified Manton drove a Lotus single-seater in the up to 1,100 c.c. class in the Brighton Speed Trials in 1958.

 

In 1964 associated with Albert Powell in a Jaguar 3.8 saloon?

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 26 October 2015 - 11:16.

[bradbury west]

I  suppose you could contact Damon Hill via the  BRDC asking him to ask his mother Bette of she recalls the good Doctor. Your connection to him is close enough for your request to be taken as bona fide. Similarly John Campbell Jones was a very good pal of Graham Hill at that time at Lotus and through his life. He may recall Dr Manton.

Roger Lund

edit. Nothing other than the results and 1100cc class win in Autosport, so clearly an 11.

Long shots; perhaps Mike Anthony recalls him, or try Graham Capel the 11 historian, either of whom may recall him. Perhaps Historic Lotus Register could help.

RL

Edited by bradbury west, 26 October 2015 - 11:29.

[Gavvn]

Thank you for you help, I will try the suggested routes..

 

The letter speaks about having ideas stolen from him and suggests that he was a racing car designer/builder, I assume this was why he had a grudge against Colin Chapman, something must have happened there..

My grandfather had a similar issue with Frank Nichols and this was the reason he left Elva, he had great success with the MK1 and MK2 along with the Ford OHV conversion which he was never credited for, so there may be something in it.

 

(we are talking 1100cc here)

 

They were both eager to build a faster car than the existing Lotus and Elva and use IRS, they had planned to call it the Witts Manton. 

I don't think Manton was a driver as they had a few drivers in mind to drive it, including Mr Moss. 

Its a shame they never finished it as I am sure the scorned pair would have built the ultimate racer of the time.

Edited by Gavvn, 26 October 2015 - 12:47.

[Vitesse2]

Very few leads on Ancestry. The only Edward G Manton I can trace was born in Camberwell in 1920, married there in 1950 and seems to have remained in that area afterwards. Another one pops up in North London in the early 1960s, but it looks like he hailed from out of town and - if so - was too young. Otherwise - nothing!

 

I did wonder if Dr Manton was related to Grenville G Manton, sometime motoring and aeronautical journalist - who hailed from Bushey and later lived in Watford and Muswell Hill - but it appears very unlikely as 'Grenny' didn't apparently marry until 1940.

[Rupertlt1]

31.3.1957 National Brands Hatch, up to 1,100 cc sports, 1st Graham Hill, #10 Lotus Eleven, entrant Manton

6.4.1957 British Empire Trophy, Oulton Park, up to 1,200 cc sports, 1st Graham Hill, #7 Lotus Eleven, entrant Manton

 

What is this? Willment?

 

https://revslib.stan...log/wy890sq0224

 

Updated link: https://library.revs...ch-brscc/415542

 

Also:

 

https://revslib.stan...log/hb985vy1226

 

Updated link: https://library.revs...ch-brscc/419612

 

RGDS RLT 

Edited by Rupertlt1, 22 December 2023 - 05:42.

[bradbury west]

Thus far no answer from JCJ's number.  Also worth a pot, try if anyone has a set of Sports Car and Lotus Owner magazine, which covers late 57 to 63-ish

Roger Lund

 

PS Gavvn, do you have a shot of the Elva ohv conversion? I have a nice colour shot here from when a 6 was being restored, looks nice. I will see if I can find it in the boxes marked photos...  Also, re Elva, there is Roger something, name here somewhere,   who is their archivist who may have knowledge of your grandpa.

[Gavvn]

Thank you for replys , I do have a good shot of the Elva conversion, I will dig it out.

Roger Dunbar is the Elva man, I have spoken to him in the past to shed some light on my grandfather's activities for the Elva book.
I have since found more documents and pictures, I was very close with my grandfather so luckily I know what a lot of it is,. He was not the sort of man to boast about hit acheivments so his work had gone uncredited for 50 years.

My family did not know Dr Manton, and have never tried to find who he was, but grandad spent a lot of time with him in 1957, and I only recently found the link with Lotus.

[Rupertlt1]

Registration numbers of Lotus Eleven cars driven by Graham Hill in 1957: EPV 130,  POY 780

 

RGDS RLT

[Lotus11Register]

( Perhaps Historic Lotus Register could help.)

 

Okay. 

 

Manton was the first owner of a 1957 Lotus Eleven Series 2, chassis #310, an 1100cc car.  Although this would have been an early S-2 the March and April dates noted by Rupert seem problematic to me. Manton may have had an earlier car.  Will look into this today. The current owner would certainly be pleased to read this background letter and so would many of the rest of us.

 

Jay Sloane

[Charles Helps]

Registration numbers of Lotus Eleven cars driven by Graham Hill in 1957: EPV 130,  POY 780

 

RGDS RLT

I think you will find that EPV 130 is pre-war motorcyclist Harley Deschamps' Eleven S1. and POY 780 was Jack Richards' similar car.  Richards in particular was very good at sharing his cars.

 

Jay, what about 4 HMC which seems to be a series 1?  The registration was issued in the first half of 1956 and Manton's name appears in the list of customers in 1956.

[Charles Helps]

Autosport April 5th 1957 has a picture of an Eleven registered 4 HMC.  the caption reads "... Graham Hill ... in the Lotus entered by Dr. Edward Manton".  The article is a report of what appears to have been the first race meeting of 1957 at Brands Hatch.

 

Edit: this is the report on the race on 31st March 1957 referred to by Rupert L-T in post #6 above (I should have read more carefully - sorry.)

Edited by Charles Helps, 29 October 2015 - 16:37.

[Lotus11Register]

Gavin, your Dr. Manton did indeed own an early Eleven, chassis #189, which exists today in the UK with a continuous history.  Lotus records list the first owner as "Hanton" but Manton is confirmed as accurate. The car was a LeMans version as was his S-2, #310, purchased the following summer. Depending on the date of your letter his impressions of ACBC might have come from one car or both.

 

I'll ask my co-registrar Victor Thomas to put the current owner of #189 in contact with you. Finding the owner of #310 may not be as easy. But once again, there are many of us here who would be interested in the letter.  Perhaps the contents could be posted in this or another thread ?  Thanks for bringing this up.

 

Jay Sloane

 

edit: this thread has generated a correction to HLR records. There had been a registration mix-up between the Manton S-1 and the Greenall car.

Edited by Lotus11Register, 30 October 2015 - 14:31.

[Charles Helps]

Jay, the Manton car (4 HMC) and the Greenall car (XMA 818) would appear to be two different cars. 

 

Both appear to have been racing at Mallory Park at the Boxing Day races in 1957.  The Hon Edward (Karl Ludvigsen photo) was driving his own car (racing number 4) with App. C full width screen and I have a scanned photo of the other Eleven (2) with single seater cockpit driven by Colin Stuart Dodd ( according to the Martin Krejci website) racing alongside Chris Meek in his Lotus Mk Nine (1).  The Greenall car has acquired an unlovely enlarged radiator aperture which can also be seen in this George Phillips 1958 photo of W E J Allen racing XMA 818 at Silverstone.

 

Greenall's name is in the same early Lotus Eleven customer list.

 

I'm sorry that this isn't getting us much further with Dr. Manton and his grudge against ACBC.

 

Edited for spelling of Krejci

Edited by Charles Helps, 31 October 2015 - 12:11.

[Rupertlt1]

Graham Hill is aboard the Manton Lotus Eleven, 4 HMC, in the back of this pic at Goodwood, Event 3, The Chichester Cup, International Meeting, Easter Monday, 22nd April 1957:

 

https://revslib.stan...log/vn844gq7458

 

Finished 4th overall, received 1100 c.c. award. Note ACBC won the event, with another Team Lotus car third, that of J.K. Hall.

 

Updated link: https://library.revs...goodwood/414952

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 22 December 2023 - 06:34.

[Bloggsworth]

I was back from school for the Easter Holiday and the family was there with a picnic - Happy days. Was that the day of the Chris Bristow punch-up?

[syrener]

Hello,
I am restoring a Lotus Eleven who’s first owner was Dr Edward Manton, registered 4HMC. Would you mind sharing the letter you have ? Thank you.
Thierry Hilger

Hello,

I have a letter dated 1957 from Dr Manton to my grandfather who was involved with Elva.
The letter is 17 pages long and is about a car they were about to build.. if it is of interest I can reveal its content, he doesn't seem very pleased with Mr Chapman.

The only reference I can find is this-

http://www.worthpoin...money-281933282


Thanks in advance for any help.
Gavin.

[Geoff E]

In view of the Chichester connection, Edward G Manton is likely the one who was a schoolmaster in that city in the 1939 register. He was 1903 (Edmonton) -1978 (Camden).

[syrener]

Here is Manton’s RAC license with address details of London NW2

https://www.worthpoi...hills-277247492

[Geoff E]

Here is Manton’s RAC license with address details of London NW2

https://www.worthpoi...hills-277247492

 

That is the same date of birth as the schoolmaster in Chichester in 1939.

 

HIs birth and death middle name was registered as George.  The probate register for his death has George/Gore as alternative entries.

Edited by Geoff E, 21 November 2021 - 21:34.

[Rupertlt1]

XMA 818 is here at Silverstone, Nottingham Sports Car Club, 11 August 1956:

 

https://library.revs...gham-scc/402269

 

Will the magnum opus of Dr. Manton appear here?

The Chichester connection is most intriguing.

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 22 December 2023 - 05:51.

[dgs]

Graham Hill drove a Lotus Eleven for Dr Manton during the 1957 season.

The car may be here, can anybody identify it?

 

https://revslib.stan...rch_match=exact

 

I have Goodwood International Meeting, 22 April 1957, Event Three Chichester Cup, 4th overall E.G. Manton (Dvr G. Hill) Lotus-Climax, 16 min 53 sec

 

An unidentified Manton drove a Lotus single-seater in the up to 1,100 c.c. class in the Brighton Speed Trials in 1958.

 

In 1964 associated with Albert Powell in a Jaguar 3.8 saloon?

 

RGDS RLT

GOODWOOD (22nd April 1957) - Chichester Cup (Sports Cars up to 1500cc non s/c)  10 laps. No 36 Graham Hill (entered by Dr EC Manton)  Lotus Climax 11, chassis 310, Reg no: 4HMC, grid 5th, result: 4th, 10 laps, 16'53.0"  

[syrener]

GOODWOOD (22nd April 1957) - Chichester Cup (Sports Cars up to 1500cc non s/c) 10 laps. No 36 Graham Hill (entered by Dr EC Manton) Lotus Climax 11, chassis 310, Reg no: 4HMC, grid 5th, result: 4th, 10 laps, 16'53.0"

Are you sure it was a chassis 310 ? Hill did 6 races in Manton’s S1 until 10th June 1957 which has an earlier chassis number. From August 1957 Hill raced in 310 beginning in Brands Hatch.

[Steve123]

Gavvn on October 2015 includes a link to the letter from (then) BRSCC secretary Ken Gregory offering starting money to Graham Hill/Doc Manton for a race at Brands Hatch in 1957. I cannot read the print. Can anybody with better eyes then me, or better computer skills, tell me what the amount of starting money on offer was?