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Roborace - Driverless Formula E support series


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#51 Ruusperi

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 13:44

Since no drivers can get hurt, they could use racing places which would be fatally dangerous with drivers: like some high speed corners with trees or a lake as a "run-off area". There could also be huge jumps and other obstacles with spikes on the track or they just race on public road like Old Spa-Francorchamps. Of course spectator safety must remain, but at least some parts of the circuit could be designed to cause big crashes. :D



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#52 taran

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 13:50

I look forward to seeing Tse Sakamoto racing again :love: :love: :love: .



#53 Timstr11

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 13:54

Driverless FE will be groundbreaking. Very excited to follow this.  :up:

With no driver, the engineers will be the stars. Not a bad thing.



#54 taran

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 13:57

Driverless FE will be groundbreaking. Very excited to follow this.  :up:

With no driver, the engineers will be the stars. Not a bad thing.

 

Even better, most of the engineers in F1 will move to this series as they can finally "drive" the car without a driver mucking up their setups and race strategies. Meanwhile F1 can become a racing series with archaic cars and emotion saturated drivers.



#55 Timstr11

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:06

Even better, most of the engineers in F1 will move to this series as they can finally "drive" the car without a driver mucking up their setups and race strategies. Meanwhile F1 can become a racing series with archaic cars and emotion saturated drivers.

 

I do wonder though if they will use Artificial Intelligence to run the car, like Google is researching, or will someone drive the car via remote control? The latter will be less interesting.


Edited by Timstr11, 27 November 2015 - 14:13.


#56 Jackman

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:09

Finally motorsport dispenses with the distraction of drivers so that the focus of the fans can at last lie where it should: on the teams.



#57 Fatgadget

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:10

I wonder if they will let Herbie and Kitt enter.

You are showing your age mate! ;)

You ommited Tron on that list lol :D

Seriously,there is some milage on this. Why not create the perfect race series we all can enjoy without the subsequent bitching?....I guess iiys the subsequent moanings and bitching we all like induldging in than the races themselves eh! :D

#58 Mila

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:19

Now I can cheer for a driver and my own obsolescene at the same time.



#59 superden

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:20

Eh! Speak for yourself fella! To me I love FE!...It's the future of racing.

Fossil fueled racing seies are just that...FOSSILS.


And the ONLY thing it has going for it, is the human interest aspect. Remove the drivers and its like watching AI racing in Forza. If you find that appealing, great. If that's the future, such is life.

Doesn't stop it being utter **** though.

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#60 Radoye

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:20

This can be serious fun, there is something akin to it already in the virtual world:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TORCS

 

 

The TORCS Racing Board hosts a competition on its website among players in the TORCS community. Unlike traditional network multiplayer events in which players compete in real-time on local network or Internet-connected clients simultaneously, the TORCS Racing Board is a competition between artificial intelligence "robots" developed and uploaded by users.

Faculty from the University of Würzburg and Politecnico di Milano host two AI competitions, the Simulated Car Racing Championship and the Demolition Derby Competition; the latter uses a patched TORCS server.


#61 superden

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:27

This can be serious fun, there is something akin to it already in the virtual world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TORCS


Great. But it's not real driving is it? Any more than a spin on a flight simulator is the same as going up in a MIG 29. It's a computer game. I like racing games, but they aren't rivals to actual motor racing, with real cars and drivers. If they are, then something is seriously wrong with humanity.

This virtual/AI agenda is getting on my wick, it's sapping every vestige of joy from life. God forbid people actually got up and did something in the real world ...

Edited by superden, 27 November 2015 - 14:30.


#62 Ben1445

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:27

...... I'll keep an open mind about this until it happens I think. If it works...great! If it doesn't...meh. 



#63 Jonnycraig37

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:32

Formula E is unappealing enough without announcing this nonsense as its support series.


Eh? It's comfortably the most consistently exciting racing series around at the moment.

#64 JHSingo

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:41

Eh? It's comfortably the most consistently exciting racing series around at the moment.

 

I raise you IndyCar. And MotoGP. :p

 

This (Roborace) might be good for some laughs early on while they get any glitches sorted out, but that's probably about it.



#65 FredF1

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:43

Great. But it's not real driving is it? Any more than a spin on a flight simulator is the same as going up in a MIG 29. It's a computer game. I like racing games, but they aren't rivals to actual motor racing, with real cars and drivers. If they are, then something is seriously wrong with humanity.

This virtual/AI agenda is getting on my wick, it's sapping every vestige of joy from life. God forbid people actually got up and did something in the real world ...

 

 

Something in the real world? Such as sitting at home on the couch watching an F1 race this weekend where nothing is at stake championship-wise at a circuit nobody much cares for where nothing of note will happen? Or do you mean something more real than that? :p



#66 Ali_G

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:43

Finally motorsport dispenses with the distraction of drivers so that the focus of the fans can at last lie where it should: on the teams.


I've been told similar things in here. All these fans will be delighted not to have stupid drivers ****ing up races for them.

#67 Ali_G

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:45

Eh? It's comfortably the most consistently exciting racing series around at the moment.


Touring cars / Aussie V8s are much better series for entertainment.

#68 Disgrace

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 14:57

Does the winner get promoted to Formula E? Does it qualify for Super License points?



#69 thegamer23

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 15:01

http://www.wired.co....-cars-formula-e

 


Edited by thegamer23, 27 November 2015 - 15:28.


#70 Option1

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 15:42

095660006560013319a6005056a9545d.gif

 

Neil



#71 highdownforce

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 15:43

What we should be asking:

- Can Kinetik build a race car already for next season (they say don't know how it would look like) ?

- Can Agag find enough companies willing to be involved? He said he is hoping for companies like Google, Bosch et cetera to be involved. But no one is signed yet.

- Is the technology there yet? Do we have capable software to actually race?

#72 Otaku

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 15:44

I look forward to seeing Tse Sakamoto racing again :love: :love: :love: .

 

Don't know how much ppl will understand that message, but GO DON MATRELLI !!   :clap:



#73 Kalmake

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 15:46

http://www.kinetik.vc/ -> http://www.charge.org/ -> Enstone where LotusF1 is.

 

I wonder what size these cars would be. Small would make sense in many ways, but might lose on street cred.

 

If they don't have fan boost I'll watch.



#74 PARAZAR

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 15:48

Robots stealing humans' jobs... :evil:



#75 Risil

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 15:59

I wonder what size these cars would be. Small would make sense in many ways, but might lose on street cred.

 

If they don't have fan boost I'll watch.

 

I dunno, seeing who could write the best script to spam fan boost votes might be an intriguing side competition.



#76 Clatter

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 16:01

I think this could be quite good fun, especially in the early days where they are bound to get the coding wrong. And it could turn out to be a damn sight more road relevant than anything in F1.



#77 NoSanityClause

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 16:06

Me from future: I really like robodriver number 5 :love:  but man, do I hate that robodriver 9 - what an asshole. 

RoboSophieB in the Robocar#5 vs Robocar#7 thread:

 

"WARNING: subjective comments detected. Does not compute. Posts erased."

 

"SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?"

 

(On topic: I love the idea of a driverless formula. I can't help but picture it as 20 cars controlled by Kimi Räikkönen clones, though)


Edited by NoSanityClause, 27 November 2015 - 16:06.


#78 superden

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 16:07

Something in the real world? Such as sitting at home on the couch watching an F1 race this weekend where nothing is at stake championship-wise at a circuit nobody much cares for where nothing of note will happen? Or do you mean something more real than that? :p


I'm not watching the GP, so yes.

#79 superden

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 16:08

"SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?"


Chess would be more interesting.

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#80 Fatgadget

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 16:20

And the ONLY thing it has going for it, is the human interest aspect. Remove the drivers and its like watching AI racing in Forza. If you find that appealing, great. If that's the future, such is life.

Doesn't stop it being utter **** though.

Again..Speak for yourself! :rolleyes:

#81 Option1

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 16:25

Honda's driver is already in hard training!

 

asimo-dancing-o.gif

 

Neil



#82 muramasa

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 16:32

Honda's driver is already in hard training!

 

 

 

Neil

in football

judgement-day-Asimo-honda-robot-kicks-ba



#83 Victor_RO

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 16:56

I raise you IndyCar. And MotoGP. :p

 

This (Roborace) might be good for some laughs early on while they get any glitches sorted out, but that's probably about it.

 

All of the competitors will be writing software. Trust me, I speak from experience: no matter how smart and how good the people are as devs, sorting out all the glitches in a massive piece of software is going to take a long. long. long. long. time.



#84 superden

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 17:08

Again..Speak for yourself! :rolleyes:


I am. As are you.

#85 Cabby

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 17:12

As a programmer, this is pretty cool.  Definately has road relevance as we attempt to move into driverless street cars.   With most videogames, the AI is very predictable as each car is programmed by the same person.  With multiple development companies writing different AI's, taking different lines, different braking points, different driving styles, it could be interesting.   I would expect the first few races to be basically a fistful of Maldonado's with Random crashes coming out of nowhere.  



#86 senna da silva

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 17:27

Seeing how well they can develop a car to go around corners will be interesting since they will not be limited by the human body with respect to g-forces.



#87 KingTiger

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 17:31

This might became the star of the show. It certainly will be more interesting than FE. 



#88 quaint

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 17:34

Eh! Speak for yourself fella! To me I love FE!...It's the future of racing.

Fossil fueled racing seies are just that...FOSSILS.

 

You don't need fossil fuels to use an ICE, but unfortunately chemical batteries cannot even start to compete with combustible fuels, especially when it comes to auto racing, where weight is king. It might change one day, but don't hold your breath: it's been the problem with electric cars for over a century.



#89 Jonnycraig37

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 17:35

This might became the star of the show. It certainly will be more interesting than FE.


The words of someone who has never watched FE..

#90 RealRacing

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 18:02

I´d watch if Maldonado was a guest flesh driver on one of the races. Senna's middle finger is extending in his grave...When did auto racing attract all these geeks #!@$@%$&@!~`?


Edited by RealRacing, 27 November 2015 - 18:17.


#91 Cloxxki

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 18:09

One aspect worries me.
The combination of 300kph top speed (bring it on), one-hour race (okay) and electric.

Seeing how tuned down FE is in race trim (do they even make half an hour?), I wonder if the road relevance could be a bit too much. As in, supercars doing road legal speeds around a circuit.
Qualifying might be the interesting part of this series, racing what people will die of boredom from.

Take the best EV in the world, what pace can it go around a circuit for a full hour? Even if they'd use Tesla Model S top model 90D (and they could, it's all plug 'n play ready for this series), it might not go all that fast. 85kWh real battery capacity. One hour. Means 85kW average power. 114hp. See? This would be average, so perhaps 200-ish hp when on the throttle. Qualifying, depending on number of laps required to complete, could be quite wild. 500kW on tap. Only overheating  to worry about. And in unrestricted mode, 300kph on a really long straight would be doable. Obviously even F1 won't make that on most FE  courses.

Actually thinking about it more, regenerative braking would add to the horsepower available over a one-hour race. It might be less pedestrian than I thought. 
But the whole deal about energy conservation just bums me out about F1. Fast looking cars going slowly. Perhaps with robots it will be more bearable.

I believe I've once seen a sports car or quick saloon be AI driven around a track as it was taught, years ago. AI drivers would not suck if the racing was taken seriously. How the cars would interact thouhg, could make it more robot wars than car racing.
A totally stripped down Model S, not even seats or display console, just a USB stick with AI. Could be interesting.
For some reason I had the vision "celebrity passengers" when other said "no driver risk". Hmm...
 



#92 chipmcdonald

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 18:22

There's your dividing line.

 

It's road car relevant, and it's progressive. 

 

Go let them have at it, and make Formula 1 what it should be: humans racing humans in human creations.

 

Putting software "to the test" as a "sport" is a dichotomy.  You can already do this in the computer, there is no need to spend money putting it on a track.  From a spectacle point of view it would be unsafe to be anywhere near it if it were allowed to be a true engineering competition. So it will again be compromised, and in turn serve no purpose.

 

Bounding the performance of such a thing to human standards is contrary to the exercise.  But, as I've said many times - F1 is an anachronism, accept it, and let it be what it should be.



#93 kamikaze1

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 18:27

Obviously they have never seen Robocop.......

 

 

But anyway, I had imagined something more like this :D 

 

 

2ir3iox.jpg



#94 043Max

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 18:37

Am already wondering if they will spray Oil on the podium instead of Champagne.



#95 SophieB

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 19:51

Maybe we've got it all wrong and Roberace is just a robot version of Liberace invented for the modern caberet scene.



#96 highdownforce

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 20:05

in football
judgement-day-Asimo-honda-robot-kicks-ba


Yamaha's is so much more interesting...
yamaha-robot-motobot.jpg

#97 BullHead

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 20:17

I guess it will be interesting, briefly, but it's not motorsport. Undecided as to whether I think it should be part of a 'motorsport' package. Then again, fanboost is being pushed not drawn back. F1 will be pleased. I think it reduces the credibility of FE.

#98 BuzzingHornet

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 20:41

As someone who loves both motor racing and robots... Im super excited.

#99 chunder27

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 20:45

In fairness I just watched about 10 laps of WTCC

 

Nothing can be worse than that?



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#100 Radoye

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 20:50

Great. But it's not real driving is it? Any more than a spin on a flight simulator is the same as going up in a MIG 29. It's a computer game. I like racing games, but they aren't rivals to actual motor racing, with real cars and drivers. If they are, then something is seriously wrong with humanity.

This virtual/AI agenda is getting on my wick, it's sapping every vestige of joy from life. God forbid people actually got up and did something in the real world ...

 

No, of course it's not driving. It's a completely different category of competition.

 

But it is not a computer game - this is not sim racing, in which humans control virtual cars, there are no human drivers involved. The competitors are all computer programmers who develop robot-drives, which then "drive" the virtual cars completely autonomously racing other such cars.

 

It is not a motor sport in the real sense of the word, but it can be fun to watch. Sometimes the races look quite similar to real racing, sometimes they are just downright bizarre.

 

And i can't even begin to imagine the madness that will take place once they move this from the virtual to the real world, which is infinitely more complex than any virtual world with so many more variables to take into account.