50 replies to this topic

[Caractacus]

Hi all!

I've been wondering about why it is that Michael seems to be in such a filthy mood at the moment and I thought I'd like to have everyone's opinion on what I've come up with.

Firstly, I'd like to point out that I am well aware of the fact that there are plenty of explanations, including that I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but, in my defence, chatting about stuff and postulating theories is what this BB is about.

Secondly, I'd better make clear what I'm talking about. Michael was furious in the press conference after he lost to Coulthard in the wet. He REALLY did not want to talk about his car's set-up and was adamant that it was between him and the team. He was also rather p***ed off after the last race.

It is quite clear that there are straightforward explanations: for the first incident, he would be naturally livid that a win had been wasted, that he'd embarrassed himself by his errors and that it was Coulthard who went past him. For the second, he has now lost his undisputed lead of the Championship.

However, given that the loss of the race to Coulthard was not entirely the fault of the team, why did he seem to be blaming them? It is not the best way to defend a Championship, with a partially alienated team. This is my main point of interest: it really is not good for Michael to not have the team 100% behind him, so why is he at least seeming a bit critical? I just wonder if we can allow ourselves a little bit of imagination an postulate some reasons.

Michael's main motivation to get to F1 seems to have been Senna, and even if it were not his MAIN reason, it was nonetheless a strong influence upon him. He is often compared to Senna and there are innumerable arguments about who has/had the greatest talent.

Currently Michael has the same number of Drivers' World Championships as Senna - does it seem reasonable to believe that, now he has achieved his stated aim of bringing Ferrari the World Championship, his main focus is upon beating Senna? I think so. It is, at least, what I would want. In doing so he would also move himself up to the level of Prost, which would be nice, I'm sure. It would also leave him second only to Fangio, and that is a privilege, I'm sure we all agree.

Could the reason for Michael's sour mood be that he wants to win at least one and possibly two (equalling Fangio... wow...) WDCs while the Ferrari is still the class of the field? he knows as well as anyone that things change all the time in F1 and his time is surely now, if ever.

The question now is, does the team share his dream? I am not questioning in theory the commitment of the Ferrari people to the cause but perhaps I am in practice. I wonder if the team HAS lost a little of its edge after its victory and if it is the case that the Ferrari team is commited to the FERRARI cause and not so much to Schumacher's own personal dreams. In short, they are motivated but not as much as Michael and it is this discrepancy (whether real or merely perceived) that has Michael worrying that, despite the promising start to the season, even THIS year's Championship is in doubt, let alone those subsequent.

We've seen that the the Ferrari boss, Luca, is not exactly a Michael fan and I worry that Michael has become a little less important to the team than he was. If so, perhaps he should be cautious in laying blame, after all, with Michael's salary they could hire another top-line driver and save a minimum of £10,000,000.

What do you think?

[The RedBaron]

Yeah:rolleyes:

Two bad races and your beginning to write him & Ferrari off. You don't know his ambitions or thoughts....just pure speculation. He has always stated that he wasn't interested in comparisons or records.
I think you have too much time on your hands!

[Peter Perfect]

It'll be interesting to see how Ferrari handle being the top-dog everyone is trying to topple instead of being the valiant under-dog.
I think their pitstop strategy used to be based on outhinking the leading team, now they are the leading team they don't seem so certain what to do.

[bira]

Your entire post in based on the supposition that Michael Schumacher criticised the team.

Can you show us reference to that? Because from what I know - and I happen to know ;) - nothing could be further from the truth.

Therefore, since the foundation of your thesis is completely wrong, I cannot see how the thesis itself can further hold grounds.

[Caractacus]

I have! I'm bored and waiting for the next GP, that's why I thought I'd find out what others were thinking...;)

I'm not writing off Schuey at all, I'm hoping he'll have a good season and that so will at least three other drivers so that we can have good viewing.

Incidentally, what DO you think about his foul mood and ambiguous statements in the interview after the race was lost to Coulthard? Is it a sign of his competitiveness, and thus good, or is it bad PR, the sort of thing that Häkkinen is sometimes criticised for when he is less than forthcoming at question time...?

Hmmm?

[bira]

Q: Michael inevitably we're going to try and get a bit more out of you about the setting of your car. Was it something that was done before the race or did something develop with the car during the race which you had not expected?


MS: No, the car was what it was. Nothing else developed.


Q: Does this mean to say there was some disagreement between you and the team over the settings of the car?


MS: You would like me to answer this, honestly? I mean - certainly not, why we should have any disagreement about it, I'm responsible my setup as anyone else I just don't like to go into detail with you my setup! It's pretty easy!


Q: Okay, it's just that you looked unhappy, I wondered if -


MS: No no no I'm not unhappy it's just that I would have been more happy sitting in the middle here. That would be the perfect, to some degree, but then they did a better job than we did so that's it.

Just read it like it is. And bear in mind - this isn't on TV. By this point, a driver who's had a bad day really is wary of more and more questions asked of him. He just wants to go back to his motorhome, take a shower and sit down with the engineers to try and figure out how to have a better day next time.

[Caractacus]

I'm fairly sure that there is no rift really, it's just that Michael seemed unusually curt - he's only as brusque as this about once a year!

* * * * * * * * *

Q: Were you expecting the rain to come earlier or when were you expecting it?

MS: No, there was no precise predictions that the rain would come. Even in the first two laps we had already some spots of rain, so I was saying 'there might be some rain, be prepared' but honestly during the race again there were some stages when drops came and then finally obviously it came.

* * * * * * * * *

I thought that this sounds like implied criticism, but to be fair he does accept responsibility for his own set-up choices.

* * * * * * * * *

Q: Did you go for a compromise setting, like David?

MS: Yes and no.

Q: Very precise! So, was yours in a way therefore a guess in the wrong direction, is that what you're saying?

MS: Why don't you ask some questions different?

Q: Okay, so you're not going to tell me.

MS: No.

* * * * * * * * *

Doesn't he sound almost rude? However, as you say, he lost 4 points and probably annoyed himself with his errors.

* * * * * * * * *

Q: Tell us how the car was, what was it doing that was so difficult?

MS: I think maybe you saw some inboard shots and what you saw I felt.

* * * * * * * * *

Yeah, you're right, there's probably nothing really in the idea that he's annoyed overmuch with his team, but would you all tell me what you think Schumacher's aims now are for himself in F1? Does he want to defend his title successfully once and then retire gracefully or do you think he's set his sights upon equalling Fangio? If he loses this year, do we believe he'll go to his family or will ambition to the be the greatest push him on?

[Peeko]

Schumacher has set his sights on winning as much of everything as possible with Ferrari. Any records he breaks along the way, will merely be bi-products of his goal.

[The RedBaron]

Firstly a well known quote from Schuey - he'll retire once a young
gun emerges and regularly beats him. (maybe Ralf or JPM at some point!) Secondly he's not too bothered about records and comparisions....his supporters and Senna's seemed to be more interested!
Thirdly, the main architects of his success have re-signed with Ferrari to 2004, leaving the door open for him to continue up to that point. (I think he'll race to 2004 and then retire -gut feeling). I doubt MS will ever race for another team....forget Toyota.

MS is neither arrogrant or rude, he is however extremely competitive and doesn't like losing, especially when there was an opportunity to win in Brazil. He basically got it wrong and chose the wrong set-up.....hence he's kicking himself and clearly upset. You could say he threw away a possible victory. Michael is hard
on himself because of the high standards he sets....it is not his intention to upset the reporter or Coulthard.....he's just pissed at himself!

[schumigal]

Originally posted by The RedBaron
Firstly a well known quote from Schuey - he'll retire once a young
gun emerges and regularly beats him. (maybe Ralf or JPM at some point!) Secondly he's not too bothered about records and comparisions....his supporters and Senna's seemed to be more interested!
Thirdly, the main architects of his success have re-signed with Ferrari to 2004, leaving the door open for him to continue up to that point. (I think he'll race to 2004 and then retire -gut feeling). I doubt MS will ever race for another team....forget Toyota.

MS is neither arrogrant or rude, he is however extremely competitive and doesn't like losing, especially when there was an opportunity to win in Brazil. He basically got it wrong and chose the wrong set-up.....hence he's kicking himself and clearly upset. You could say he threw away a possible victory. Michael is hard
on himself because of the high standards he sets....it is not his intention to upset the reporter or Coulthard.....he's just pissed at himself!

Couldn't have said betta!

[5319]

Originally posted by The RedBaron
he's just pissed at himself!

EXACTLY!!!Pissed at himself.He sets high standarts and is disappointed when he fails to archieve that.

I undertand that feeling......

Redbaron,well said!

[CONOSUR]

Originally posted by Caractacus
...We've seen that the the Ferrari boss, Luca, is not exactly a Michael fan...

Where the heck do you people come up with this stuff???

Prior to Indy last year, Luca was asked, by FoxSportsNet interviewers, to name the top five Ferrari F1 drivers of all time, and his response was, "Well, obviously Fangio. Then Lauda, Mansell, Prost and Schumacher." He went on to say that he felt that Schumacher was the best yet; a combination of Prost's intellingent approach to a race and Mansell's aggressiveness during a race.

To state, from who knows where, that Luca is not a fan of Michael, is absolutely ludicrous.

[Rainbowtrout]

If Luca wasn't a Schumacher fan he'd gotten rid of him after Jerez 97 or after Suzuka 98.

[The RedBaron]

He is also the Ferrari's most winningest driver, a point
that has not gotten amiss with Luca. MS has won races for them each and every year since being there.

[selena]

I agree with The RedBaron. MS is most probably very angry with himself for the mistakes he made.

[hedges]

Michael made a point of taking responsibility for his set-up, period. He did not blame his team, it was the reporter who mentioned the team, obviously hopeing for some sort of conflict that just didn't exist.

Caractacus, how do you get implied criticism from

"Q: Were you expecting the rain to come earlier or when were you expecting it?

MS: No, there was no precise predictions that the rain would come. Even in the first two laps we had already some spots of rain, so I was saying 'there might be some rain, be prepared' but honestly during the race again there were some stages when drops came and then finally obviously it came."

You seem to have a problem with reading things into statements that just aren't there, for instance

"Doesn't he sound almost rude? However, as you say, he lost 4 points and probably annoyed himself with his errors."

As who says? No one said he lost 4 points and was annoyed with his errors (at least not at the time you posted), Bira hit the nail on the head... Just read it like it is.

[Bodzolca]

Monaco 1996
"Michael accepts errors from others, but not from himself." - Jean Todt

'nuf said

[jimm]

Posted by Red Baron
"Secondly he's not too bothered about records and comparisions....his supporters and Senna's seemed to be more interested!"


His emotional reaction to beating Senna's win tally suggest otherwise

[Rainbowtrout]

Originally posted by jimm
Posted by Red Baron
His emotional reaction to beating Senna's win tally suggest otherwise

His emotional reaction at Monza might have more to do with the after Spa comments in Germany and the rest of the world, you know, Is Michael Schumacher finished!

Is Mika better than MS?

Having been at Monza on that day, it might also have been related to a though win and one in which had he lost the race, his championship chances would have been probably over!

If you remember MH was 6 points in front of MS after Spa.

The margin of error for Ferrari and MS was non existent at Monza! Totally non existent!

[5319]

Originally posted by Bodzolca
Monaco 1996
"Michael accepts errors from others, but not from himself." - Jean Todt

'nuf said

Sorry,but I don't get what this qoute has to do with this discussion.
Michael admited it was his mistake.

[Rudolf]

Originally posted by The RedBaron
Michael is hard
on himself because of the high standards he sets....it is not his intention to upset the reporter or Coulthard.....he's just pissed at himself!

Spot on mate! I honestly can't believe this topic! He was mad. Reporters asking the same questions over and over again. I thought he was v. patient. If that were me, I would more than likely have been dragged away from the guy for punching him and using abusive language! I really would have told them all to just **** off!

[magic]

Secondly he's not too bothered about records and comparisions...
-------------

don't believe the hype.
he is very competitive but is not to bothered bout records?

he did acknowledge his monza hysterics were related to breaking senna's record (something everybody thought would happen in monaco '00!, not monza'00 many races later).

and last week he was boasting that the schumachers were the first f1racewinning brothers ever.

that combined with winning a title for ferrari after 21 years are the only records he broke, up untill now, and he's very happy to show his too bothered emotions to the press.

[Rainbowtrout]

Maybe records don't bother him because he knows he'll end up beating most of the important ones!

[Williams]

After winning his 1995 championship, Michael Schumacher said, "How many times I am champion does not really interest me. The only thing I am interested in is beating Prost's record of 51 wins."

[magic]

51 vics can be enough for 6 or 7 wdc's.

[bira]

Originally posted by Williams
After winning his 1995 championship, Michael Schumacher said, "How many times I am champion does not really interest me. The only thing I am interested in is beating Prost's record of 51 wins."

Sorry, I don't believe he said that. I am not doubting you, Williams, but I have a suspicion that whatever source you are quoting in that respect is not true.

If Michael was not interested in 1995 in winning more WCs but rather increasing his wins, he wouldn't have moved to Ferrari (these two goals pretty much go together, btw).

Schumacher has always eyed the WC. He said in 1995, after winning it for the second time and upon moving to Ferrari (I have it on tape): "After you win it once, you want to win it again. After the second time, you say - why not third. I hope I win more than 3 but to win the Championship with Ferrari is what I want and I am going to concentrate on that, not on statistics."

[The RedBaron]

magic, your probably the poster on this BB that is most bothered and concerned about statistics as your posts often show. (Forix is your 2nd home!)

It is a matter of fact that they are the only brothers in modern F1 to have ever of won a GP. That fact was hyped up well before the result in Imola. MS was genuinely happy for his younger brother Ralf
and that has more to do with his "brother" comments thereafter....after all Michael has been winning races since 1993.

You really don't read people's emotions that well if you think MS cried because he equalled Senna's win record at Monza!!....it was much...much, much deeper rooted reasons behind those tears. I won't even begin to try to explain to a "Stats" man where white is white and black is black!!


If MS is indeed bothered about "stats", the only one that might
be of interest to him -is the number of times being World Champion.

[bira]

Originally posted by magic
don't believe the hype.
he is very competitive but is not to bothered bout records?

I asked Michael about this. He said, "of course I know where I stand and what is going to happen. Everyone mentions it all the time, it's hard to forget what I can achieve and it is very important, for sure. I am not denying that."

I asked him, "but are you thinking about it?"

He replied, smiling, "every day, at least once, when someone like you (meaning the press) asks me about it."


That was two days before he won in Monza

[bira]

Originally posted by The RedBaron
You really don't read people's emotions that well if you think MS cried because he equalled Senna's win record at Monza!!....it was much...much, much deeper rooted reasons behind those tears. I won't even begin to try to explain to a "Stats" man where white is white and black is black!!

Sorry, Red, I disagree with you here.

I happened to spend many days with Schumacher and the Ferrari team from Belgium to Monza, and in particularly the two days before the GP (Friday and Saturday), Michael was talking a lot about Senna. He was very very much on his mind.

There are a few people here who were on the Atlas F1 chat that weekend, so they got to witness it first hand, even before the race I was telling them about how peculiarly occupied Schumacher is with Senna over the course of the weekend.

For whatever reason, Senna was weighing heavily on his mind that weekend. His tears had everything to do with Senna's record.

[The RedBaron]

Yep, obviously if the Press ask him about specific records, then it comes to the fore and you cannot avoid the facts, but I don't believe MS gives it much thought once he's away from the F1 arena (e.g with family, friends etc)

I would place a bet that MS probably didn't know about Senna's consecutive Poles record until the Press mentioned it.

[bira]

the consecutive poles maybe not.

But total wins and pole positions he knows very well. It has nothing to do with the press.

And you're very naive if you think he thinks about it only when asked by the press.

[The RedBaron]

I wouldn't have thought the "41 wins" itself as a raw statistic, but more a flashback of the incidents from Imola 1994, particularly Senna's death and all that he achieved etc.
He would have been reminded that one more victory would tie Senna's win record. At the point in time do you think he was thinking about the 41 wins or "Senna the person"? I think his tears were for the latter.


I'm sure all these questions will be answered one day in his autobiography.

[Wolf]

Magic- enough by which standards? Shall we take Hawthorn as an example? (1 win in his WDC winning season, and 3 wins overall)- that makes 17 C'ships with 51 win...

[The RedBaron]

Originally posted by bira

And you're very naive if you think he thinks about it only when asked by the press.

which kind of contradicts what you wrote earlier

Originally posted by bira


I asked him, "but are you thinking about it?"

He replied, smiling, "every day, at least once, when someone like you (meaning the press) asks me about it."

To me he is saying (sarcastically), he doesn't really think about it much but is constantly being reminded by the Press.
I'm talking about the records now, not about Senna.

[bira]

hrmm, Red, I didn't ask him about Senna though.

I asked him about being the first to win the WC in 21 years, about already having the most fastest laps, about probably ending his career with most wins ever. And about going into the record books at the top. To that he replied: "of course I know where I stand and what is going to happen. Everyone mentions it all the time, it's hard to forget what I can achieve and it is very important, for sure. I am not denying that."


And, if you want to know why I asked him about it? It's because he brought it up

[The RedBaron]

In what context did MS bring it up? (just curious)

[bira]

Cut for brevity: someone (not me) asked Schumacher who he rates as the best drivers ever. He said he can only comment about those he drove against, like Mansell, Senna or Prost (those were his example) and said, "For sure Senna was the best, that is very obvious." [ here comes a whole part about Senna ] "But you see what Prost achieved, how many wins and championships he had, and you cannot say Prost was not one of the best."

After that I asked him about the importance of stats and what it means etc.

[The RedBaron]

ok thanks, I can now see in what context it was being said.

Q: Who was the best? A:Senna was the best but you cannot ignore Prost's superior stats

[selena]

I think MS is constantly being reminded by others of the stats. It is good to know where one stands in relation to the stats but I do not think he will personally analyse it everyday.

[The RedBaron]

Selena, my point exactly:up:

[bira]

There's a big leeway between 'not caring about it' and 'being obsessed about it'.

Drivers, including Michael, tend to be very different than BB posters ;)

[The RedBaron]

100% on that one:up:

[Williams]

From bira:

Originally posted by Williams
After winning his 1995 championship, Michael Schumacher said, "How many times I am champion does not really interest me. The only thing I am interested in is beating Prost's record of 51 wins."

Sorry, I don't believe he said that. I am not doubting you, Williams, but I have a suspicion that whatever source you are quoting in that respect is not true.

Excerpt from Jan. 1996 "Chequered Flag" magazine:

Like Senna, Schumacher is taking refuge in individual victories, reckoning they will cumulatively take him where he wants to go.

"I get tremendous joy from winning and as long as I keep doing that I will keep racing", Senna said in 1993. "I don't think about championships I think about winning races. If I keep on winning races, then, hopefully, the Championship will follow".

In October, after winning his second title, Schumacher echoed Senna's words almost exactly. "How many times I am champion does not really interest me. The only thing that I am interested in is beating Prost's record of 51 wins".

[bira]

Williams there's a huge difference between what Senna says in that quote, and what Schumacher has supposedly said in that quote.

I reiterate again: I don't believe for a single second Schumacher said this quote. Not like that, not these words.

[The RedBaron]

I tend to agree with Bira, they don't look or sound like the type of thing MS would say....well not in that format anyway.

[Billy]

according to http://uk.sports.yah...2/80/b58ae.html
at the launch of the F2001, Michael said "You cannot say that my goal is a certain amount of titles. I would simply like to win as many races as possible."

[The RedBaron]

as i thought, quite a bit different from William's post and more in line with Senna's point of view. Thanx Billy

[senninha]

Originally posted by bira


Sorry, Red, I disagree with you here.

I happened to spend many days with Schumacher and the Ferrari team from Belgium to Monza, and in particularly the two days before the GP (Friday and Saturday), Michael was talking a lot about Senna. He was very very much on his mind.

There are a few people here who were on the Atlas F1 chat that weekend, so they got to witness it first hand, even before the race I was telling them about how peculiarly occupied Schumacher is with Senna over the course of the weekend.

For whatever reason, Senna was weighing heavily on his mind that weekend. His tears had everything to do with Senna's record.

IMHO, the fact of pass Senna's record was the main reason for MS's cry. Afterall, he in some way "beated" his idol.

But, i think MS's cry has something to do with Imola 94. Maybe the experient MS is still embarassed with the young MS. Not only for his behavior on podium but, despite beeing Senna's fan ("rival" on that time), he didn't say anything in Senna's defence about the crash.

Afterall, MS had the BEST image (wich was cut by Bernie) and didn't say nothing really in favour of Senna (maybe because he was younger? or Bernie's pressure? or he was selfish - his main rival was out? ). Some stupid theorys were created, like Senna had collapse... and MS just didn't say anything without doubt. He saw Senna's attempt before the crash !

Even Piquet, the main Senna's hater ever, talked something in his defence: "There is no way of driver mistake at Tamburello. It's like a straight. I'm sure something broke in Senna's car"

So, despite a great driver, MS showed not to be a great man.

[Williams]

bira you are probably correct. But it may be a paraphrase of something MS did say. The author's name is Byron Young. I don't know if you have heard of him or come across his name in your travels as a journalist, or whether you have an opinion on his writing. I don't expect a driver's thoughts on subjects such as this to remain the same or be consistent over time, but I thought it was interesting in the light of what was being discussed.

Also note that the quote says that he doesn't care "how many times" he is champion. It doesn't say that he doesn't care about the championship at all. For sure he would not be happy with two, and of course he is trying for four, but beyond that, I doubt whether he has set any targets.

[bira]

Williams - the part I don't believe Schumacher said was "The only thing that I am interested in is beating Prost's record of 51 wins." -- there is no way on earth Schumacher uttered that line.

Sennina - I'm afraid I find your accusations utter rubbish. Since it was never a case of Senna crashing due to driver error, to insinuate that Schumacher even believed that, and let others believe that, is a gross fabrication.

Furthermore, to state that Schumacher showed no respect for Senna prior to Monza 2000 is also a gross lie. For one, Schumacher already paid public tribute to Senna at the press conference of Adelaide 1994, where he dedicated his WC to Senna, stating that if Senna wasn't killed he - Schumacher - would not have won the Championship.

Beyond that, I will not dignify these accusations with any more debate. You may believe whatever you want for all I care.