53 replies to this topic

[Graveltrappen]

http://current-e.com...ormula-e-entry/

I remember when Formula E was laughed at when it first was announced... But this is pretty big news. If car manufacturers see it as a viable and valuable prospect... Especially if F1 steps away from the current engine formula because it's 'not noisy enough' or 'too complicated for fans'... Maybe we'll see the like of Honda end up switching to FE too?

Good to see this establishing as a credible exciting and fresh series.

[anneomoly]

Well, slight fallacy, because Audi (via Abt), Citroen (via DS Virgin) and Renault e.dams are already teams in FE...

 

... but "in partnership with Williams". So a possible JLR Williams car to take over the Trulli team?

[Nathan]

Is there an effort to prevent direct factory teams?

[Volcano70]

All for a new team that looks competitive!

[EvilPhil II]

Is there an effort to prevent direct factory teams?

 

F1 has a rule that the team names cant appear in any other sport. So its probably in avoidance of that. 

[CoolBreeze]

http://current-e.com...ormula-e-entry/

I remember when Formula E was laughed at when it first was announced... But this is pretty big news. If car manufacturers see it as a viable and valuable prospect... Especially if F1 steps away from the current engine formula because it's 'not noisy enough' or 'too complicated for fans'... Maybe we'll see the like of Honda end up switching to FE too?

Good to see this establishing as a credible exciting and fresh series.

It 

is still laughable. 

[BCM]

It needs to be faster, but the racing is good and technology will improve over time. 

 

I don't think it's laughable. I think it's admirable.

[maximilian]

Sure would be cool to have the two big Indian Manufacturers battle it out!

[Gyan]

I mean, Jaguar are hardly Indian though. I'm 100% sure that a Jag team would run under a British license.

[messy]

Formula E has surprised me big time in the last year and a bit. It's quite good. The standard is quite high - the drivers are good, the cars race well, the races are unpredictable and it's quite a well supported series with works efforts from Renault, Audi and Citroen already. The only thing that I think lets its down are the claustrophobic circuits, nothing remotely resembling a 'classic' racing track and I know it'd be incredibly hard to have a race at Spa or Silverstone but still, I don't like all these mickey mouse city circuits really. They tested at Donington Park, why not try a race there? 

 

Anyway going OT, another strong, manufacturer-backed team in this championship can only be a good thing. I've actually enjoyed watching FE live on ITV4 more than I've enjoyed F1 this season, and it feels like this and the WEC are growing into something pretty strong at the moment where F1, WRC etc are floundering. 

[RedBaron]

Haters gonna hate.

 

Formula E has started off like no other new racing series. It is in high demand from cities around the world and it seems it has manufacturers waiting to join the party. This isn't A1GP, far far from it. 

 

About the circuits, I agreed at first the circuits are a weak point - but it's just the beginning, once the cars have the tech to race at high speeds and lengthier straights I am sure the circuits will increase in length/laps and layout (less micky mouse). We are what 2 races into season 2, this is still Beta.

 

I don't think FE should move to full racing circuits in the future, it should remains at least 50% street circuits in the city. Go to where the crowds are, the buzz was great in Battersea.

[Jon83]

http://current-e.com...ormula-e-entry/

I remember when Formula E was laughed at when it first was announced... But this is pretty big news. If car manufacturers see it as a viable and valuable prospect... Especially if F1 steps away from the current engine formula because it's 'not noisy enough' or 'too complicated for fans'... Maybe we'll see the like of Honda end up switching to FE too?

Good to see this establishing as a credible exciting and fresh series.

 

I'm still laughing
 

[Ben1445]

The remaining laughter will die down eventually.  

 

Having manufacturer interest is good, no matter how you spin it. If Jaguar intend to launch a team (Drayson-Jaguar?) plus 'one other' unknown then that's more than can be said for some other series. 

 

In terms of circuits, I still think the street tracks has been a genius idea. I just don't see holding an FE race on a shortened GP track having the same effect, especially as direct comparisons to, say, an F1  car, would only look bad (but then I guess that's what some people want -_-).  As the cars get faster, some street tracks will become obsolete, at least in their current forms. But what's to stop other venues being adapted over the years to suit the changing requirements and the series ends up acquiring it's own 'Classics'? I think there is a case for borrowing small amounts of heritage from the past whilst trying to carve it's own in the present.*

 

*this kinda feels like it should be in the main FE thread rather than this one, so... do what you will.. 

Edited by Ben1445, 11 December 2015 - 14:29.

[maximilian]

I mean, Jaguar are hardly Indian though. I'm 100% sure that a Jag team would run under a British license.

 

Probably, but they are just a subsidiary of Tata Motors, and I am sure the decision to race in FE would be made on Tata levels.

[Imateria]

Probably, but they are just a subsidiary of Tata Motors, and I am sure the decision to race in FE would be made on Tata levels.

Sure, but when they were owned by Ford no one called them an American company.

[RedBaron]

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/122245

Edited by RedBaron, 15 December 2015 - 10:14.

[chunder27]

Rather a shame they get involved in a branding exercise rather than anything more interesting.

But that seems to be thw way in modern motorsport.

You have to credit the sales team at Formula S, they could sell sand to Arabs

[Disgrace]

My inner nationalist was rather hoping to see British racing green rather than a colour scheme already adopted by NEXTEV TCR.

[Muppetmad]

Great news

[RedBaron]

My inner nationalist was rather hoping to see British racing green rather than a colour scheme already adopted by NEXTEV TCR.

 

 

They're not really the same.

 

 

[Jonnycraig37]

Rather a shame they get involved in a branding exercise rather than anything more interesting.

But that seems to be thw way in modern motorsport.

You have to credit the sales team at Formula S, they could sell sand to Arabs

Manufacturers want road relevance. FE is road relevant.

There's a reason manufacturers are falling over themselves to get involved.

Edited by Jonnycraig37, 15 December 2015 - 10:45.

[mtknot]

Mark Webber should join this outfit, then red bull racing should buy it up

[RedBaron]

Mark Webber should join this outfit, then red bull racing should buy it up

 

Only if they can tempt Newey away from McLaren, which is unlikely.

[GhostR]

My inner nationalist was rather hoping to see British racing green rather than a colour scheme already adopted by NEXTEV TCR.

 

If you read the article, it becomes clear that's a concept livery as they're quoted as saying livery decisions haven't been made yet (nor has a decision on the actual team name).

 

 

Rather a shame they get involved in a branding exercise rather than anything more interesting.

But that seems to be thw way in modern motorsport.

You have to credit the sales team at Formula S, they could sell sand to Arabs

 

Looks to be more than just a branding exercise to me. Article suggests they're devoting internal resource to power train development, with support from Williams to help them get the team off the ground. I'd expect (and hope) that as time goes on they'd take over more of the day-to-day running of the team as they gain more experience.

Edited by GhostR, 15 December 2015 - 11:24.

[Disgrace]

Silly me for not treating the motorsport press with the same vigilance and mistrust as the normal press.

[chunder27]

It is simply a neat way to get sell job in engineering to universities and the ike.

A clever marketing gimmick aimed at portraying a company that largely sells gas guzzling V8 cars to deflect some of that attention away and also recruit some possible future high level engineers away from other firms.

 

Marketing pure and simple, nothing more, it certainly aint gonna sell any old mans Limos

[Ben1445]

Formula E-Type 

Edited by Ben1445, 15 December 2015 - 11:46.

[GhostR]

Marketing pure and simple, nothing more, it certainly aint gonna sell any old mans Limos

 

They're in the process of launching their first Electric vehicle. What better way to help promote it than to win on the race track? They're not doing this to sell their V8 sports sedans or luxury cars. They're doing it to establish themselves as a credible electric car builder. Why? Because increasingly the industry is realising that if they don't they won't survive. 

 

Let's face it, when one of the big fossil fuel giants (ExxonMobil) is talking up the risks of climate change, and getting behind calls for change that would ultimately hurt their core oil / fuel business, you know that there's big change on the horizon for all industries reliant on fossil fuels.

 

Jaguar's playing it smart here. They're behind the curve on getting electric road cars up and running, but getting in early enough with Formula E that they would probably benefit.

[Timstr11]

Like it or not, electric car racing will become more widespread.

Anyone who has followed the Climate conference in Paris will know that the outcome will force nations and industries to divest from fossil fuels more drastically than they have so far. Electric cars will become much more mainstream in the next 10 years.

[Fastcake]

Looks to be more than just a branding exercise to me. Article suggests they're devoting internal resource to power train development, with support from Williams to help them get the team off the ground. I'd expect (and hope) that as time goes on they'd take over more of the day-to-day running of the team as they gain more experience.

It's more than a branding exercise, but there's no need for Jaguar to do it all themselves. Jaguar and Williams have been technical partners for a number of years now, so it makes perfect sense for the two of them to run this team together. The collaboration will come on the technical side with the powertrain and battery development, while Williams will be running the race team as only they have the expertise to do that.

[chunder27]

To be fair there are two nations polluting our world, and one them doesnt seem to give two hoots and contributes 25% of the global pollution.

 

I will give you one guess who that might be

 

So, jumping on a band wagon is all well and good but I would rather see them stop selling cars in China than get involved in this.

[ConsiderAndGo]

What a sensational looking car!

[anneomoly]

Formula E has surprised me big time in the last year and a bit. It's quite good. The standard is quite high - the drivers are good, the cars race well, the races are unpredictable and it's quite a well supported series with works efforts from Renault, Audi and Citroen already. The only thing that I think lets its down are the claustrophobic circuits, nothing remotely resembling a 'classic' racing track and I know it'd be incredibly hard to have a race at Spa or Silverstone but still, I don't like all these mickey mouse city circuits really. They tested at Donington Park, why not try a race there? 

 

Anyway going OT, another strong, manufacturer-backed team in this championship can only be a good thing. I've actually enjoyed watching FE live on ITV4 more than I've enjoyed F1 this season, and it feels like this and the WEC are growing into something pretty strong at the moment where F1, WRC etc are floundering. 

 

Because one of their USPs is that they are racing in easily accessible, city centre places and bringing motorsport to the people rather than asking the people to traipse out to a circuit that has three buses an hour from cities an hour away.

 

It's more than a branding exercise, but there's no need for Jaguar to do it all themselves. Jaguar and Williams have been technical partners for a number of years now, so it makes perfect sense for the two of them to run this team together. The collaboration will come on the technical side with the powertrain and battery development, while Williams will be running the race team as only they have the expertise to do that.

 

So... British racing green with screwed up pitstops?

[maximilian]

This should come as a bit of a wake-up call to some of the naysayers out there who think this series is a mere silly gimmick without much relevance.

[Jonnycraig37]

This should come as a bit of a wake-up call to some of the naysayers out there who think this series is a mere silly gimmick without much relevance.

It won't do. Those naysayers have never seen an FE race and write it off whilst giving effusive praise to the shambles that is F1 these days.

FE & Indycar exist for those who love racing, F1 exists for those who like to argue over which driver is the bestest ever.

[HP]

Like it or not, electric car racing will become more widespread.

Anyone who has followed the Climate conference in Paris will know that the outcome will force nations and industries to divest from fossil fuels more drastically than they have so far. Electric cars will become much more mainstream in the next 10 years.

Not so fast, Apparently right now the biggest polluter are electricity generating facilities (the irony!) and heavy industries which use more and more of that precious electricity (double irony), I've even seen some pro electricity factions stating that there is almost no change to the temperature, if people use electric cars or fuel driven cars. Plus fuel driven cars, can also still be improved.

 

In any case, before car manufacturers build more e-cars , people should pressure their governments to clean up their industries) including those building cars and electricity generating facilities. IMO while e-racing might send a message, it's a mixed one. It's easy for those who should change first, to pass on the responsibility to the little man, while they still keep on polluting.

 

As an example here in our country, the local government that has the big coal burning electricity producing facilities (generating 78% of the power nation wide -- because of that right now I'd heat air more using an e-car than by using a fuel powered car -- wanted to pass on a law to use environmental friendlier coal but was stopped by the central government) As long as things like that happens, e-cars, especially those for racing, change next to nothing on the climate goals.

 

Besides, why is it that there was almost no talk about aero planes, which according to some stats I have seen produce with one long distance flight, about as much pollution that I possibly can produce in any car for the majority of my adult life driving the entire day. Or trucks, for which electric powered engines is still far away to make them feasible for the required load.

 

There is so much to be done, but really, motor racing is not changing much for our planet, as is right now buying an e-car in most countries.

 

So while I appreciate Jaguars effort, let's not get blinded by their effort. And as such I prefer racing when the vehicles go a lot faster, and for longer. To me e-racing has reached maturity if they can compete at Le Mans and win against traditional LMP1 cars. Lola-Drayson is right more of a technical exercise for example. They seem still waiting for the battery technology to emerge to make it possible to race against those other cars in earnest. But in recent months it has become rather quiet on the front of new battery technology. So again, not so fast.

[GhostR]

because of that right now I'd heat air more using an e-car than by using a fuel powered car

 

That's an argument that's been propagated by fossil fuel supporters. The reality is that the big electricity producing stations burn the fuels a lot more efficiently and cleanly (relatively) than individual cars do. So while driving an electric car reliant on electricity produced by fossil fuels is still contributing to pollution and climate change, it's doing so at a lower rate than most fossil-fuel burning cars do.

 

Yes, they've still got a long way to go. But the future is electric, and the sooner that the big companies and general public get behind it the better.

[Skaffen]

Not so fast, Apparently right now the biggest polluter are electricity generating facilities (the irony!) and heavy industries which use more and more of that precious electricity (double irony), I've even seen some pro electricity factions stating that there is almost no change to the temperature, if people use electric cars or fuel driven cars. Plus fuel driven cars, can also still be improved.

 

 

Electricity generation is a major polluter because we use a lot of it - not because it's less efficient.  Even coal powered power stations are roughly as equivalent as ICE power units in terms of thermal efficiency (modern ones are around 40%) and although you have generation/transmission/storage losses you equally burn extra carbon transporting liquid fuel around for cars.  The difference is that the UK (as an example) is on track to produce 15% of its electricity from renewable resources by 2020 - so whereas an ICE isn't going to get much lower CO2 emissions electric cars will by virtue of the fact that ~15% of their energy will be produced from clean sources and there are other sources (nuclear etc.) which don't produce CO2.  There's also the fact to bear in mind that with a power station you can spend a lot of energy cleaning up the emissions from one exhaust - NOx emissions from power plants have fallen massively over recent years but that's quite hard to do with ICE systems without compromising efficiency/performance (exhibit A. here being, of course, VW).

[Skaffen]

One thing I do wonder about F1 is whether in a few years time they'll swap to a decoupled thermal engine and an electric powertrain with development focussing on the electric side and maybe either a spec ICE or just a maximum generated MJ target for the ICE.  Manufacturers aren't going to want to spend the hundreds of millions required for ICE development when their road cars are becoming more hybrid-based or pure electric.  I think Jaguar going this route after the CX-75 does kind of validate this a little.

 

I wouldn't be completely surprised if there were open rules on the thermal section (eg. it can generate 50Mj/m, must use fuel at a maximum rate of 100kg/h etc.) and it would be good if we had people using a mix of engine types (6 cylinders, 4 cylinders, gas turbines etc.) with the real development being on the final electric powertrain.  I can't help but think that would be significantly cheaper to develop rather than the complicated hybrid setup we've got at the moment.

Edited by Skaffen, 15 December 2015 - 16:05.

[JHSingo]

I was hoping the next Jaguar motorsport announcement would be confirmation (finally) of an F-Type GT3 programme or something a tad more exciting.

 

But hey, beggars can't be choosers I guess...

[Nonesuch]

This should come as a bit of a wake-up call to some of the naysayers out there who think this series is a mere silly gimmick without much relevance.

 
I don't think anybody disputed that car manufacturers would be keen to use Formula E to showcase their electric technology.

 

Businesses will want to participate in events that promise to help them sell their cars and improve their image in a certain manner.

 

At the moment Formula E is a nice platform to do so. It's novel, relatively cheap, attracts positive press, and goes right to the heart of a few large cities.

 

The interest seemed to trail off somewhat last season, though, so the question will be if the costs of participating can be justified by the exposure the series generates over the next two or three years.
 

We are what 2 races into season 2, this is still Beta.

 

Not really; this is what Formula E is and what it has to offer.
 
Once you start asking people to pay to come watch you're playing for real.

 

Of course it can still change for the better (or worse), but that's a question for another day.

[917k]

I'm sorry, but electric racing cars [while a nice diversion] are not my idea of a racing car. Even F1, with hybrid technology, is taking it a bit too far.

 

As a complement to other racing it works fine, as a replacement it will fail to meet what I want in a racing series in a great many ways. 

And this is by no means taking anything away from what FE is now, but if racing goes all electric then I will likely be far less of a fan of the sport.

 

Some goes with electric road cars. As an enthusiast, I am not looking forward to the end of the IC engine - cars like the Tesla, while outstanding technology, do not excite me in same ways that a flat 6 Porsche, V8 or V12 Ferrari do.

Edited by 917k, 15 December 2015 - 17:58.

[RedBaron]

Not really; this is what Formula E is and what it has to offer.

 
Once you start asking people to pay to come watch you're playing for real.

 

Of course it can still change for the better (or worse), but that's a question for another day.

 

 

I disagree.

 

Coming up is only the third race only of season 2, tech is still primitive, they've only just opened up some development rules and there'll be more to come.

 

It's still entertaining so of course there's something to pay to go to and watch, but Formula E has bigger ideas than just what's happening now. It's still in a development stage regardless if people are paying for it and it's broadcasting. They can't dive in at the ultimate stage, so it will have to go through a growing phase, which is happening right now.

Edited by RedBaron, 15 December 2015 - 18:01.

[Marklar]

It 
is still laughable.

I'm still laughing

Yeah, pretty laughable that it provides excellent racing. Much better actually than the so called pinnacle of motorsport...

[BRG]

Jaguar's FE interest has already paid off - major coverage in the business pages on several of today's papers, all positive.  Good marketing!  Pity it is basically meaningless and just a branding exercise, but the markets don't know that or care.

[Marklar]

About the topic: pretty excitet about Jaguars entry. Especially as my favourite team is cooperating

Edited by Marklar, 16 December 2015 - 21:10.

[EvilPhil II]

Manufacturers want road relevance. FE is road relevant.

There's a reason manufacturers are falling over themselves to get involved.

 

Yes, tax evasion.  You can spend an awful lot of money on R&D and environmental challenges with all sorts of tax benefits and grants. 

[Lee Nicolle]

Yes, tax evasion.  You can spend an awful lot of money on R&D and environmental challenges with all sorts of tax benefits and grants. 

First you have to earn enough money to pay tax on. Something that most manufacturers do not seem to be doing ATM.

Otherwise I say WHY?. Electric Gokarts really are not that exciting or serious. It does say a lot about F1 too, all negative.

[Peter0Scandlyn]

About the topic: pretty excitet about Jaguars entry. Especially as my favourite team is cooperating

 

Take it you're referring to the Williams connection?

We're all aware just how well they set out to lose F1 events. Somewhat accident prone is their constant theme. Perhaps they should reemploy Crashtor, at least they'd have a scapgoat.

Apologies for getting OT.

[WilliamsF1Fan]

About the topic: pretty excitet about Jaguars entry. Especially as my favourite team is cooperating

 

I feel the same way.  Been looking for another reason to get more into Formula E and now I have a great excuse.  Also I wonder if it leads to any other opportunities for collaboration in the future since the team and Jaguar have had a few projects together in recent years.  Still, the series seems to be really doing a great job attracting manufacturers now, that is quite exciting.