56 replies to this topic

[ThursdayCar]

Morning everyone!

 

I am turning my research and scale-model-building focus to the McLaren M8D and would be grateful for any suggestions for good images of these cars.

I am focusing on non-factory cars for the minute, so people like John Cordts, for instance, of whom I need more images especially of the top of the car...

 

© Mark Windecker

 

...and I am also intrigued by the history of the car that John Grant drove and had a nasty crash in...

 

© Unclear, sorry!

 

Hope he was alright in the end...

Does anyone know how this car spent its life in the 70's?

 

Any other interesting M8D's that have fans amongst you?

 

 

 

 

[RA Historian]

The lower photo is not an M8D. It is the former Gordon Dewar M8C with a D like body.

Edited by RA Historian, 14 December 2015 - 19:52.

[RS250]

I think the John Grant car started life as an M8C (/70/06?) and was used by Toyota to help with the development of their Group 7 cars and V8 engines.
Not sure how much is left of the original car - especially after the Brands Hatch crash, the car was destroyed.

[D28]

Excellent choice, as the M8D was one of the best looking McLarens ever. Dan Gurney really took to  the car, winning 2 of 3 before sponsorship squabbles intervened. Always wondered how things would have played out had he done the whole 1970 series.

[alansart]

.... especially after the Brands Hatch crash, the car was destroyed.

That was a huge accident from which John Grant was lucky to survive.

http://www.telegraph...10.html?image=3

The car has since been rebuilt using what?

 

McLaren M8F? by Alan Raine, on Flickr

 

Edited by alansart, 13 December 2015 - 17:17.

[E1pix]

The lower photo is not an M8D. I believe that it may be the ex-Fred Parkhill M8E, with a D body, but am not sure about that point.

Are there differences between a D and E body?

Alan, shocking image, can't believe he survived that!

[2F-001]

I was at Brands when that accident occurred - although thankfully not too close to it (Clearways/'Clark Curve', wasn't it? Or am I confusing it with another incident?).

 

I always think of the M8E having the 'standalone' rear wind without the vertical fins.

[E1pix]

That would be a M8C.

 

EDIT: Upon further research, it seems both the C and E used stand-alone rear wings!

Edited by E1pix, 13 December 2015 - 21:55.

[Thundersports]

I was at Brands when that accident occurred - although thankfully not too close to it (Clearways/'Clark Curve', wasn't it? Or am I confusing it with another incident?).

 

I always think of the M8E having the 'standalone' rear wind without the vertical fins.

It was at the top of Paddock i'm not sure whether it was brake failure or a stuck open throttle. I imagine the only re-usable part of the car was the chassis number!

[2F-001]

Re. M8C / M8E...

 

Yes, it would - but I was thinking it also described the M8E 'as issued'. There are numerous pictures of cars described as M8E carrying what appears at least to be M8D - or even M8F - bodywork. But you can't really trust the captions put to pictures on the internet.

 

So - likewise, I'm not clear on the differences between M8D and E bodywork if they both had wings mounted on vertical fins...

Edited by 2F-001, 13 December 2015 - 20:03.

[2F-001]

It was at the top of Paddock i'm not sure whether it was brake failure or a stuck open throttle. I imagine the only re-usable part of the car was the chassis number!

I'm not convinced that Telegraph picture is showing the top of Paddock Hill bend; those parked cars surely wouldn't be there - and where was the photographer standing?

 

 

edit:

please see subsequent post, 13, below.

Edited by 2F-001, 13 December 2015 - 20:17.

[E1pix]

Re. M8C / M8E...

 

Yes, it would - but I was thinking it also described the M8E 'as issued'. There are numerous pictures of cars described as M8E carrying what appears at least to be M8D - or even M8F - bodywork. But you can't really trust the captions put to pictures on the internet.

 

So - likewise, I'm not clear on the differences between M8B and E bodywork if they both had wings mounted on vertical fins...

 

The 1969 factory-run M8B was sold as a customer-version, Trojan-built M8C in 1970 — identical (?), except the M8C used short wing struts (I think the high wings were banned after '69?)

   — neither had fins/fences attached to the wings.

 

The 1970 factory-run M8D was sold as a customer-version, Trojan-built M8E in 1971 — identical (?), hence my asking RA.

   — both had fins/fences attached to the wings.

 

EDIT: Sorry 2F, seems I'm mistaken… I have long thought McLaren's customer lineage was simply:

M6A > M6B

M8A > M12

M8B > M8C

M8D > M8E

M8F > M8FP

 

But that'd been too simple. I've read more about this so get it now, but ain't saying another word on the matter.  

 

Edited by E1pix, 13 December 2015 - 21:56.

[2F-001]

Apologies to 'Thundersports' - looks like you were right! I misinterpreted that picture badly.

Edited by 2F-001, 13 December 2015 - 20:13.

[2F-001]

E1pix - I complicated things further by mistyping M8B for M8D; I'm really not with it this evening! I think I should go out and come in again - or maybe just have a drink...

[3304hl]

EIpix - For some reason when I read your last post I immediately thought of Reggie Perrin....

Edited by 3304hl, 13 December 2015 - 21:09.

[Thundersports]

Let's throw a spanner in the works..........

Peter Hoffmanns M8f/g/h?

[E1pix]

EIpix - For some reason when I read your last post I immediately thought of Reggie Perrin....

 

Hi, 330, don't know this Reggie fellow, but presume he was also a deluded mastermind. 

 

 

Thundersports, let's go all the way… What could go wrong?… Surely it's a M8SN, for "Somethin' or 'Nother."

 

There. Fixed. 

[ThursdayCar]

Thanks - lots of stuff to get stuck into! Let me make myself a cuppa!

 

M8C and E are nigh-on identical bodies other than that the M8C had lower sills that curved under the car more. M8E has staighter sides.

 

Interesting notes on the Grant car. I thought it was the same as this car below, which I am actually building (because the paint job poses an interesting challenge mainly) and which appeared in a magazine (sorry I don't have the source and © on this one either!) as an M8C... go figure.

 

 

I have found a few differences in the engine cover and the rear of this car versus, for instance, Cordts' yellow #9 car.

[RA Historian]

M8D had fender fins with wing mounted in between, plus top bodywork that extended an inch or so beyond the tub. M8E had no fins, flush bodywork, and a separately mounted wing.

 

M6B was 1968 customer version of the M6A.

M8A was works 1968 car

M8B was works 1969 car

M8C was customer 1970 car, no fences, separate wing, concave leading edge of the tub, rear tub extensions holding engine

M8D was works 1970 car

M8E was customer 1971 car, based on M8D but with M8A style body as described above

M8F was works 1971 car

M8FP was customer 1972 car

M12 was customer 1969 car, continued from M6B

M20 was works 1972 car.

 

The yellow car pictured in the lead being driven by John Cordts was at that time owned by Bill Overhauser, and raced out of his WORLd team. WORLd standing for William Overhauser Racing Limited, with a d added to make a word. It had a long lineage, which, according to Martin Krejci, went:  => A. G. Dean (1971) => {rebuilt using M8E-80-10} => Roy Woods (1971) => Bill Overhauser (1972) => Hal Whipple (1974) =>Modena Collection, AUS (1980) => Bruce Zeigler/Zeigler Coach Co., USA (1990) => Ernest Iaconetti (1997~2005) => Bruce Canepa (2011~2012) => anonymous, Chicago (~2014)

 

There were four M8Ds built, one of which was destroyed in Bruce's crash. One is in the McLaren collection, another in the Stroll Museum, and the third as described right above. The various M8Ds that pop up at vintage meets are either other models with M8D bodywork, or outright replicas, assuming the three originals are still with their owners as just mentioned.

 

Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 14 December 2015 - 13:35.

[RickT]

Hi Guys

 

The Blue and Silver M8 shown here is an M8C that - as RS250 says - started out as an M8C used by Trojan to evaluate the Toyota V8 motor.  After the Toyota programme came to nothing the car was converted to carry D bodywork and was sold to Gordon Dewar who ran it like that in a few 1972 Can-Am events.

 

Johns awful crash was at Paddock Hill bend at Brands, we were in the same race with our M6B, John had been enjoying a great lead battle with the later M8FP of Richard Piper during the race.

 

Cheers

Richard

[ThursdayCar]

Wow, thanks guys. You should stick your heads together and you could write some great books! This has been very useful. I will continue to work on the Cordts M8D and the M8C development car, just to hone my bodywork and paintwork skills!

[E1pix]

Thanks for the efforts, Tom.

The M8E designation makes much more sense to me now, and answers why Steve Durst and others listed as "M8E/D" -- a D body on the "unfenced, stand-alone winged" E. It does seem a bit odd that McLaren didn't just use the D or a D-like body on the E... hence my confusion. Perhaps it worked too well!

One clarification I might add is though the M12 used a continuation of the M6B chassis, as you point out, the body seems identical or very close to the M8A body, looking nothing like the M6B at all. This really demonstrates the grip McLaren had on the Can-Am, in that this 1969 customer car used the basic chassis from three years earlier! Perhaps the M6B, being very similar to the 1966 M6A of a year earlier, was too close for comfort?

Edited by E1pix, 14 December 2015 - 17:43.

[bill p]

Thanks for the efforts, Tom.
The M8E designation makes much more sense to me now, and answers why Steve Durst and others listed as "M8E/D" -- a D body on the "unfenced, stand-alone winged" E. It does seem a bit odd that McLaren didn't just use the D or a D-like body on the E... hence my confusion. Perhaps it worked too well!
One clarification I might add is though the M12 used a continuation of the M6B chassis, as you point out, the body seems identical or very close to the M8A body, looking nothing like the M6B at all. This really demonstrates the grip McLaren had on the Can-Am, in that this 1969 customer car used the basic chassis from three years earlier! Perhaps the M6B, being very similar to the 1966 M6A of a year earlier, was too close for comfort?

Sorry to be pedantic, E1pix. The M6A first appeared in the 1967 CanAm series at Road America on 3 September with the M6B debuting in 1968.

Bill P

[E1pix]

No worries Bill, Thanks.

Worst thing is, I knew that, Ha! (and was in attendance, at barely 7)

[bill p]

No worries Bill, Thanks.
Worst thing is, I knew that, Ha! (and was in attendance, at barely 7)

Wow, I am jealous!

Edited by bill p, 14 December 2015 - 21:55.

[E1pix]

Wow, I am jealous!

I'd love to go back Bill, if you could get that Delorean running!

[Lee Nicolle]

Those M8 McLarens were the ultimate in Sports Cars.

They were brutal, fast and looked the part. 

Probably why they attract good crowds at Historic meets.

Look at the modern stuff and it is ugly. Fast maybe but no appeal.

When someone gets the Delorean going maybe they can organise a few M8s, T332 Lolas plus [being a South Aussie] some of Garrie Coopers no nonsense creations in 5000 and Sports Car too.

[bill p]

I'd love to go back Bill, if you could get that Delorean running!

Slightly O/T - I was part of the team involved with pre-production testing of the DeLorean but could never get the "flux capacitor" to work to its full potential!!

[AJB]

If you think the history of some of these cars is a bit dubious, take a look at this so-called "McLaren M8". http://www.thevrl.co...anta-mclaren-m8

 

The OP has now amended the title to include Manta. This car was allegedly raced in the early 70s by the late Clay Regazzoni.   

Edited by AJB, 15 December 2015 - 20:20.

[Thundersports]

Slightly O/T - I was part of the team involved with pre-production testing of the DeLorean but could never get the "flux capacitor" to work to its full potential!!

With RC?

[ThursdayCar]

OMG... what a mess I've made... (M8C former Toyota mule in "D drag" and Cordts' M8D):

 

 

Don't worry, it's all under control! It will all be fine... honest.

 

Bit off topic but seeing as it was also on my desk at the time:

 

Ralph Salyer Elva MkI.

 

[AJB]

OP, do you know of any suppliers for big-block inlet trumpets and McLaren wheels in 1/24th scale?

[ThursdayCar]

Ooooh.... tricky one as I only keep my eyes peeled for 1/43 stuff all the time.

 

I sometimes see kits from Accurate Miniatures that you might be able to scavenge from.

I am having to sacrifice the odd model myself as well, to find parts I need for others but it's an expensive way of building models!

If you searched ebay for "1/24 Can Am" you might come across such, and other, stuff?

 

...am guessing you are familiar with Grandprixmodels. Don't think Hiro, Studio27 and other such people do any...

[Duc-Man]

 

This is the chassis tag on John Grant's car. as seen in Hockenheim last year.

The crash in Brands Hatch was caused by a stone that got stuck in one of the rear breaks causing a break failure.

[E1pix]

Cool photo, Duc... and now we know what you look like!

Wow, who'da thunk a non-carbon rock could be worth over 100 Grand???!!!

[Duc-Man]

Since we talk about M8's here:

 

That's me in Harry Read's ex-John Cords M8C...now you know what I look like.

By the way: I'm usually on thursday and friday at the Hockenheim Historic and thursdays at the OGP. If anybody here goes there, feel free to approach me.

[Thundersports]

 

This is the chassis tag on John Grant's car. as seen in Hockenheim last year.

The crash in Brands Hatch was caused by a stone that got stuck in one of the rear breaks causing a break failure.

I sat on the fence regarding the cause as there were tyre marks on the track from it locking up. Thank you for clarifying.

[E1pix]

Since we talk about M8's here:
That's me in Harry Read's ex-John Cords M8C...now you know what I look like.
By the way: I'm usually on thursday and friday at the Hockenheim Historic and thursdays at the OGP. If anybody here goes there, feel free to approach me.

Ha, I'd have never pictured you quite so orange!

I'd love to say Howdy, but they tell me Westfalias make bad cargo ships. ;-)

[AJB]

Ooooh.... tricky one as I only keep my eyes peeled for 1/43 stuff all the time.

 

I sometimes see kits from Accurate Miniatures that you might be able to scavenge from.

I am having to sacrifice the odd model myself as well, to find parts I need for others but it's an expensive way of building models!

If you searched ebay for "1/24 Can Am" you might come across such, and other, stuff?

 

...am guessing you are familiar with Grandprixmodels. Don't think Hiro, Studio27 and other such people do any...

Yes, I've tried all the usual suspects. I acquired a pretty dire Academy M8A that I'd like to improve. I've got a couple of the AM M8Bs, but it's not worth sacrificing one of them to try to make a silk (ish) purse out of a sow's ear!

[ThursdayCar]

Amazing pics Duc!

[raceannouncer2003]

Since we talk about M8's here:

 

 

That's me in Harry Read's ex-John Cords M8C.

 

Is that 70-04?

 

Vince H.

[Duc-Man]

Yes, it is 70-04 and it is beautifully maintained.

I have an album with photos from Hockenheim 2014 on fb. There are a couple more pictures of John Grant's car being worked on.

https://www.facebook...99835395&type=3

I hope this works.

Edited by Duc-Man, 17 December 2015 - 09:42.

[Ellis French]

......8F when in Tasmania for service on arrival from Europe in 2014

 

 

 

[Lee Nicolle]

Was Taswegia big enough for a M8? 

Every time they hit the throttle in 1 2 3 the whole island would be rocking.

I love the oil tank, HUGEeee

[Duc-Man]

......8F when in Tasmania for service on arrival from Europe in 2014

 

 

 

The last time I saw it run was in 2013:

 

I hope it found a new home where they take care of it.

[E1pix]

Oh God, that's so beautiful.

[JacnGille]

Oh God, that's so beautiful.

It's Can Am and says McLaren, don't it?!?!?!

[Tom Glowacki]

OP, do you know of any suppliers for big-block inlet trumpets and McLaren wheels in 1/24th scale?

Here are the wheels:

 

https://sites.google...ins/parts-store

 

A discussion of converting the M-8D into an M-8F is here:

 

http://race-car-mode...ren-m8-question

 

Some M-8B, D, and F decals can be found here:

 

http://www.indycals....cals/canam.html

 

The intake trumpets are all over E-Bay

[GeoffR]

......8F when in Tasmania for service on arrival from Europe in 2014

 

 

 

 

So where in Tassie was it serviced. Looks like a RS200, Porsche 924(?), Ferrari of some sort and Falcon in the background.

[Ellis French]

So where in Tassie was it serviced. Looks like a RS200, Porsche 924(?), Ferrari of some sort and Falcon in the background.

 

 

Launceston

The Red car is the ex Lou Molina Monza