26 replies to this topic

[Victor]

Two questions to the experts around:

 

 

1. BRM lost their Yardley sponsorship to McLaren in 1972. In 1974 they lost their Marlboro sponsorship again to McLaren. Was this a coincidence or is there any story behind this?

 

 

2. I have a vague idea that in 1974 McLaren cheated Yardley by creating a second team with just one car to "honour" their Yardley sponsorship contract while the main team was being sponsored by Marlboro. Are my reminiscences correct or am I being unfair to McLaren?

 

 

 

Cheers

[Stefan Schmidt]

Bernie wanted to have Marlboro as Brabham Team Sponsor for 1974 - it was Patrick Duffeler who made the deal for McLaren

[RS250]

Wasn't the Marlboro cash part of the deal to take Emerson to McLaren? There was an interview with John Hogan in one of the mags a few months ago (MotorSport I think) and he went into some detail about it.
Can't imagine Yardley being too pleased, maybe that explains just the one car for Hailwood?

[10kDA]

I seem to recall Rob Walker being involved in running the car for Hailwood at that time.

[Michael Ferner]

You're probably confusing that with his time at Surtees

[FLB]

BRM didn't gain Marlboro by themselves. Jo Siffert brought them in:

 

http://forums.autosp...ing-to-roebuck/

[RA Historian]

I seem to recall Rob Walker being involved in running the car for Hailwood at that time.

As a matter of fact, yes. Walker wound down his own team at the end of 1970 and in 1971 was involved with Team Surtees. He brought his Brooke Bond Oxo sponsorship to Surtees as sponsor for one of the team cars. However, in 1974  McLaren ran three cars, two Marlboro cars for Emmo and Denny, and a Yardley car for Hailwood. The Wiener ran the Marlboro side of the operation while Rob Walker came into the team to manage the Yardley car.

[DampMongoose]

Was it not BRM's intention to run 6 cars in '72? 3 in Marlboro colours and the other 3 older models in Philip Morris brands more specific to the locality, depending on the venue? 

[RA Historian]

My recollection is similar. Lou Stanley announced that he would run six cars. Three would be full works with Marlboro, and three would be for locals with local Marlboro sponsorhip. E.G.: Alex Soler-Roig would run a Marlboro Espana BRM, and so on. All Marlboro but with three being funded locally. A somewhat similar situation was with Penske Racing in CART in 1996.  Al Unser Jr and Paul Tracy were in Marlboro cars, while Emerson Fittipaldi was in a third Penske, but that one sponsored by Marlboro of Brazil.

[Charlieman]

Was it not BRM's intention to run 6 cars in '72? 3 in Marlboro colours and the other 3 older models in Philip Morris brands more specific to the locality, depending on the venue? 

Wow, six BRM factory V12 engines running on the same day in 1972! I appreciate the wonders delivered by current BRM builders and maintainers, but Louis Stanley offered or promised something that could not be delivered 40 years ago.

 

I don't think that it is coincidence that Yardley and Marlboro switched from BRM to McLaren. It is more likely that marketing managers at two companies independently worked out that McLaren had a better offering than anyone else. Marlboro had money to spend (they paid for Emerson) for two cars and Yardley raced with Hailwood -- who may have had selling appeal in the UK and elsewhere. Doug Nye's book about McLaren explains a bit.

[PeterElleray]

As a matter of fact, yes. Walker wound down his own team at the end of 1970 and in 1971 was involved with Team Surtees. He brought his Brooke Bond Oxo sponsorship to Surtees as sponsor for one of the team cars. However, in 1974  McLaren ran three cars, two Marlboro cars for Emmo and Denny, and a Yardley car for Hailwood. The Wiener ran the Marlboro side of the operation while Rob Walker came into the team to manage the Yardley car.

Are you sure the Yardley car wasn't managed by Phil Kerr? He seems to think it was in his autobiography. Rob Walker was involved though, he mentions it in some of his R&T reports, but i'm not sure if he was the actual team manager.

[jj2728]

BRM shot themselves in the foot trying to run too many cars for too many drivers...........

[RA Historian]

Are you sure the Yardley car wasn't managed by Phil Kerr? He seems to think it was in his autobiography. Rob Walker was involved though, he mentions it in some of his R&T reports, but i'm not sure if he was the actual team manager.

My recollection is from the Road & Track reports. I seem to recall that Walker said he was managing the YardleyMac, but that was 40 years ago.

[PeterElleray]

Same source for me, i think you have to interpret 'managing'. I'm pretty sure that McLaren director Phil Kerr actually managed that part of the operation, Rob would have had a presence in the pit lane - in his autobio Phil describes Rob as 'a new unofficial member of the team"..... and there is a photocopy of a letter from Yardley thanking him for his efforts and reminding him that they had only agreed to the split team for 1974 if he (Phil) managed the Yardley part.

Edited by PeterElleray, 16 December 2015 - 17:21.

[opplock]

From To Finish First by Phil Kerr

 

"My job was predominantly to manage Mike in the Yardley-sponsored M23 while Teddy and Tyler took care of Emerson and Denny in Marlboro-Texaco colours".

 

Re Rob Walker's "unofficial" involvement  "He had become great friends with Mike, and when we signed him up, Rob came along too." 

 

I seem to recall reading that Louis Stanley regarded introducing Marlboro to F1 as having been his biggest mistake. Those of us who remember when BRM was a front running team may disagree.   

[MCS]

- I seem to recall reading that Louis Stanley regarded introducing Marlboro to F1 as having been his biggest mistake. -

 

Er, "for why" exactly?

[Michael Ferner]

Promoting death and cancer?

[lustigson]

McLaren have made a habit of taking rivals' sponsors and partners over the years. 

• Yardly and Marlboro from BRM
• Honda from Williams
• Mercedes from Sauber
• Vodafone from Ferrari (IIRC)

Serves them right that so many partners have left over the last 3-4 seasons: Vodafone, Mercedes, Boss, TAG Heuer.

 

[Victor]

Thanks guys. As usual lots of good information.

Cheers

[Glengavel]

McLaren have made a habit of taking rivals' sponsors and partners over the years. 

• Yardly and Marlboro from BRM
• Honda from Williams
• Mercedes from Sauber
• Vodafone from Ferrari (IIRC)

Serves them right that so many partners have left over the last 3-4 seasons: Vodafone, Mercedes, Boss, TAG Heuer.

 

 

'Taking' implies a certain amount of resistance or reluctance on the part of the takee. "Sound business decisions" were possibly involved.

[lustigson]

'Taking' implies a certain amount of resistance or reluctance on the part of the takee. "Sound business decisions" were possibly involved.

Probably. :-)

[10kDA]

I believe Rob Walker was, as a friend, managing Mike Hailwood's career after Walker Racing ended. Maybe paying Mike's salary with McLaren? 

[arttidesco]

- I seem to recall reading that Louis Stanley regarded introducing Marlboro to F1 as having been his biggest mistake. -

 

Er, "for why" exactly?

 

 

Promoting death and cancer?

 

Promoting death and cancer aside, Marlboro also sponsored Ferrari drivers from 1973, which cut BRM down to 3 cars for the season, and it must have rankeld Mr Stanley to see his 1973 drivers Clay Regazzoni and Niki Lauda driving for Ferrari with Marlboro logo's on their overalls and helmets in 1974

[MCS]

Yes, I guess so, artti.  I have often wondered what it must have felt like in 1974 to be running  - in effect - a French Motul Grand Prix effort with Beltoise, Pescarolo and Migault...

[Doug Nye]

Big Lou's pomposity and autocratic behaviour did not sit well with Marlboro's finest, who finally thanked Mr Stanley for having accommodated them for their introduction into Formula 1 but who gladly accompanied Niki Lauda away from BRM to Ferrari for 1974.

 

Big Lou's grandiose schemes and ludicrously exaggerated predictions of BRM performance - always just round the corner, "as showing right now in the engine test house", etc - had been identified as such by Marlboro's switched-on account execs who were nowhere near as naive and gullible as he considered everyone to be (in comparison to his own towering intellect, capability, connections and self-considered enormous experience).  Like so many blow-hards before and since he never read the writing on the wall...and when nemesis engulfed him and what he regarded as his team it was all, of course, someone else's fault...

 

I was not, and am not, a Louis Stanley fan - with very good evidential reason. What the likes of Sir Alfred Owen and Tony Rudd had largely created over so many years, to become an enormously strong team without a single weak link in the chain (until 1966), Stanley effectively destroyed into the early 1970s. Towards the very end of his life he finally developed the knack of presenting a mellow and gentlemanly face to the world - which included helping several of his past staff particularly when medical treatment was required. But from what I have been told by many involved with him, and affected by him and his little foibles, the old sometimes monstrous Big Lou very much survived not far beneath that plausible surface. A majority ascribe his good works very much to the good nature of his wife Jean, who seems to have been otherwise dominated by her husband right to the end of her life. In essence I think she was a pleasant and caring lady who also enjoyed a really good time - and for many years Stanley had ensured that her money provided it for her...and for himself.  The BRM story is not one merely of motor racing itself - virtually all human life is there (plus some pond life).

 

DCN

[MCS]

Wow.  What a post.  Thanks Doug.

 

I have days when I almost long for Vol 4.  This has not helped!

 

Happy New Year to you and yours and to Everyone on here

[DN5]

Wow.  What a post.  Thanks Doug.

 

I have days when I almost long for Vol 4.  This has not helped!

 

Happy New Year to you and yours and to Everyone on here

Agree with MCS - and what a little taster for vol. 4......