4003 replies to this topic

[ConsiderAndGo]

As the 2015 thread is still being used, I've opened this to discuss the upcoming 2016 Ferrari F1 challenger.

 

Appreciate the name hasn't yet been shared, so mods, please feel free to change it once it's been released.

 

Team: Scuderia Ferrari

Base: Maranello, Italy
Team principal: Maurizio Arrivabene
Technical director(s): James Allison
Website: http://formula1.ferrari.com

Race drivers: 5 Sebastian Vettel & 7 Kimi Räikkönen

Test drivers : 25 Jean-Éric Vergne

Chassis: F ???
Engine: Ferrari V6 Turbo

 

2015 position: 2nd (428 pts)

 

'Ferrari delayed work on its 2016 F1 car for 2015 push'

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/122395

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 06 January 2016 - 13:38.

[chhatra]

They sound pretty confident that they will challenge for the championship.

I think it will be difficult as most of the time the Merc was cruising, but we will have to wait and see.

[Claudiu]

I think they(Ferrari) must be seeing something very good in the wind tunnel in order to make such bold assertions... they will need 1s over the previous SF-15T at a minimum if they really want to challenge Mercedes this year.

When 2015 was over we were still 0.2-0.5s behind Mercedes so we need to overcome that and then some more in order to be competitive starting 2016... we'll see in Australia if our team's optimism was justified or not.

Personally I'll keep my expectation in check and I'll be happy if coming Australia we can be consistently 0.2-0.3s away from Mercedes and pushing them all the way to the finish... also being much more close in qualy but who knows. It's always better to keep your expectations in check and be pleasantly surprised(like in 2015) then the other way around.

Edited by Claudiu, 06 January 2016 - 19:00.

[RedOne]

Ferrari have affectively said they will have a championship challenging car in 2016. Reading Marchionne's words it's almost like he was ready to say they have jumped Mercedes completely. Ferrari feel strongly they are at least a match before testing has even began. I'm slightly surprised by their level of confidence but we must take there word for it. Going to be interesting..

[Jonnycraig37]

When was the last time Ferrari didn't insist they could challenge?

[Zava]

When was the last time Ferrari didn't insist they could challenge?

last year?

[Marklar]

Yup, that was pretty much the only time

[Jonnycraig37]

last year?

And only then because to do so would've literally led to men in white coats turning up at Marinello...

[shonguiz]

I would give marchionne the benefit of doubt and give his words some weight. He's a goal driven guy, no Bs, no ldm romance.

[VolvoT5]

I'm concerned and a bit disappointed to read the recent articles stating that Ferrari delayed the start on the 2016 car to keep developing the 2015 car.   I can't help but wonder if they are trying to reduce expectations as they perhaps already know they will not be on the pace right from the word go?

 

Kimi has been quoted in an article today saying it will take a few races to see if a title challenge is possible. I wonder if he knows anything or is just being cautious?

[Jimisgod]

"Challenging for the championship" can mean anything. Do they mean still in with a vague chance at the final race?

 

I foresee them being more competitive, maybe 5-6 wins, but jumping or even being level with Mercedes? Unlikely. Kimi is dead weight who will cost them the WCC.

[Jejking]

I'm concerned and a bit disappointed to read the recent articles stating that Ferrari delayed the start on the 2016 car to keep developing the 2015 car.   I can't help but wonder if they are trying to reduce expectations as they perhaps already know they will not be on the pace right from the word go?

 

Kimi has been quoted in an article today saying it will take a few races to see if a title challenge is possible. I wonder if he knows anything or is just being cautious?

If they are backtracking on their comments, they are doing a poor job of it. This car is supposed to give Merc a good run for its money, better than its predecessor did. They have something up their sleeves, but if it's an exotic trick like f.e. with the F92 they really should be careful with their statements. Inb4 windtunnel correlations issues.

[PitStop1]

Ferrari 2016 will be presented on 19 february with online presentation, according to this source. Again according this source, Ferrari is having problems on test benches, but has good result out of simulator.

[Mandzipop]

Previous thread now closed.

[ElJefe]

The current rules simply prevent teams from making substantial gains, even over the winter. I mean, only two tests during the pre-season? Really? Bring on 2017...

[Lipp]

Sam Bird part of the Ferrari family?

as a testdriver?

https://twitter.com/...133643707224064

 

 

Edited by Lipp, 07 January 2016 - 16:38.

[Gilles4Ever]

Nothing to do with F1, it's WEC. 

[AlexS]

If you want to identify better the topic title Project 667 is the project ID of 2016 car.

[sopa]

My personal projection for the season is that Ferrari MAY have a very good start into the season and may even match - yes! - Mercedes in some early races. Because Ferrari has for years had inherently good tyre management and Pirellis new tyres may initially benefit them.

 

However, over a full season Mercedes will outdevelop Ferrari. Ferrari was no match to Red Bull in 2013 despite a good start, likewise in 2015 against Mercedes. And as long as there is no evidence to the contrary, I see no reason to change perceptions about in-season developments. Those developments, by the way, also include 'adapting' to tyres, which Mercedes would sooner or later do as well.

[sopa]

"Challenging for the championship" can mean anything. Do they mean still in with a vague chance at the final race?

 

I foresee them being more competitive, maybe 5-6 wins, but jumping or even being level with Mercedes? Unlikely. Kimi is dead weight who will cost them the WCC.

 

I can see Vettel having an outside shot for the title if Mercedes is somewhat inconsistent and keeps binning races away. A bit like McLaren's 1999 troubles opened the way for Irvine to stay in contention.

 

However, I am not sure, how much would I bank for it in the modern era. Because nowadays DNF-s are pretty rare and reliability standards very high. Also for Mercedes drivers I would not expect more than 2-3 DNFs for a season, which is the range in which they have been in the last couple of seasons as well. And 2-3 DNFs for Hamilton is not enough to deny him the crown if he again wins 10 races during the season.

 

As for WCC, no chance sadly. 

 

Another question that should be asked - could anyone threaten Ferrari from behind? Or could Ferrari stumble with car/PU development and be vulnerable to threats from behind?

[VolvoT5]

I don't agree with the above.  I think Ferrari did a reasonable job of developing at a similar rate to Mercedes in 2015......... no they didn't close the gap but I don't think it increased either. 

 

The issue is simply that the amount of lap time they have to find to match the 2015 Mercedes is huge, then add on the fact that Mercedes will not stand still either.   It is very hard to do within the system.  

[sopa]

Ferrari have affectively said they will have a championship challenging car in 2016. Reading Marchionne's words it's almost like he was ready to say they have jumped Mercedes completely. Ferrari feel strongly they are at least a match before testing has even began. I'm slightly surprised by their level of confidence but we must take there word for it. Going to be interesting..

 

Before pre-season testing Honda vowed to have a championship challenging car in 2007. In the second half of 2006 Button was the biggest scorer of all and Honda was going into the new season with great expectations.

 

Just saying... People can say anything.

[sopa]

I don't agree with the above.  I think Ferrari did a reasonable job of developing at a similar rate to Mercedes in 2015......... no they didn't close the gap but I don't think it increased either. 

 

The issue is simply that the amount of lap time they have to find to match the 2015 Mercedes is huge, then add on the fact that Mercedes will not stand still either.   It is very hard to do within the system.  

 

I do think Ferrari performed better in the first four races of 2015, than afterwards. In Malaysia Vettel gave a legitimate fight to Mercedes. Basically was a match on pace, and won on strategy. In China both Ferraris managed to stay nearby Mercedes for much of the race. In Bahrain they were close as well and Raikkonen managed to capitalize on tyre management and split the two Mercedes.

 

Then came the Spanish GP and Mercedes dominated completely. Since then there were only a handful of races, where Ferrari was performing anywhere near Mercedes in race trim...

[tifosii]

I do think Ferrari performed better in the first four races of 2015, than afterwards. In Malaysia Vettel gave a legitimate fight to Mercedes. Basically was a match on pace, and won on strategy. In China both Ferraris managed to stay nearby Mercedes for much of the race. In Bahrain they were close as well and Raikkonen managed to capitalize on tyre management and split the two Mercedes.

 

Then came the Spanish GP and Mercedes dominated completely. Since then there were only a handful of races, where Ferrari was performing anywhere near Mercedes in race trim...

 

agree with you,Mercedes outdevelop Ferrari in 2015

[Nonesuch]

The talk coming out of the team's leadership sounds like a curious mix of threats and optimism. We'll have to wait and see how things pan out.

 

It'll take a monumental effort to close the gap to Mercedes - their 2015 car and engine are both fantastic and they're not going to sit around waiting for the rest to catch up.

 

But whatever happens, I don't think development in 2015 necessarily translates to 2016. There is only so much you can do with a car once it's out there, both for practical reasons and those imposed by the regulations (mostly on the engine side).

 

It'll be an interesting February, I'm sure.

[TomNokoe]

I shall assume Ferrari will build a better (solid) chassis and a monster engine.
I think come Australia they'll be fighting for second best team with the superb Red Bull chassis and some Ricciardo home support.

But come Malaysia, Bahrain, China etc, I think they'll really take it.

[four1]

Before pre-season testing Honda vowed to have a championship challenging car in 2007. In the second half of 2006 Button was the biggest scorer of all and Honda was going into the new season with great expectations.

 

Just saying... People can say anything.

You don't have to go as far back as 2007 to realize that talk is cheap. Look back just one year ago when Alonso, Dennis and Honda talked up all that sh*t about how competitive they were going to be right out of the box ("We're not here to finish second", "Our engine is a jewel", blah blah blah). And this year they're at it again, especially with Alonso. I was hoping that Ferrari wouldn't catch their disease of verbal diarrhea and instead just do their talking on the track. It's much more elegant that way.

[Richard T]

Haas passed its crash test with what is a short nose concept according to sources at Motorsport.com...

http://www.motorspor...sh-test-666669/

Is this any indication to Ferrari going the short nose route as well?

[Marklar]

Haas passed its crash test with what is a short nose concept according to sources at Motorsport.com...

http://www.motorspor...sh-test-666669/

Is this any indication to Ferrari going the short nose route as well?

Rumour has it that Ferrari is testing a short nose in the wind tunnel, but doesnt know (or it is not known) whether they will actually use it.

[Timstr11]

Omnicorse has some info on the benefits of the Haas collaboration (cooling research) and other bits about the new car:

http://www.omnicorse...e-funziona-bene

[RedOne]

Haas passed its crash test with what is a short nose concept according to sources at Motorsport.com...

http://www.motorspor...sh-test-666669/

Is this any indication to Ferrari going the short nose route as well?

They passed a short nose test for Ferrari

[RPM40]

agree with you,Mercedes outdevelop Ferrari in 2015

 

The big pain for Ferrari were when that fuel flow trick got banned. They fell back quite a long way after that. Also their aero upgrades didn't really produce the results they expected.

 

Towards the end of the year they did close up again, but I suspect by then Merc had shifted focus to 2016.

[Richard T]

They passed a short nose test for Ferrari

I mean isn't the nose cone one of the parts teams can sell to others?

[RedOne]

I mean isn't the nose cone one of the parts teams can sell to others?

I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if they both have indentical front ends.

[Marklar]

The big pain for Ferrari were when that fuel flow trick got banned. They fell back quite a long way after that. Also their aero upgrades didn't really produce the results they expected.

Towards the end of the year they did close up again, but I suspect by then Merc had shifted focus to 2016.

My impression was that Mercedes was pulling away from Suzuka onwards.

[KTownDevil]

Omnicorse has some info on the benefits of the Haas collaboration (cooling research) and other bits about the new car:

http://www.omnicorse...e-funziona-bene

 

- Ferrari/Haas: similar sidepods

- Short nose (Mercedes style)

- Intercooler in a different position

 

via @Gianlu_DAle

[Seanspeed]

I do think Ferrari performed better in the first four races of 2015, than afterwards. In Malaysia Vettel gave a legitimate fight to Mercedes. Basically was a match on pace, and won on strategy. In China both Ferraris managed to stay nearby Mercedes for much of the race. In Bahrain they were close as well and Raikkonen managed to capitalize on tyre management and split the two Mercedes.
 
Then came the Spanish GP and Mercedes dominated completely. Since then there were only a handful of races, where Ferrari was performing anywhere near Mercedes in race trim...

Mercedes were sandbagging, pretty confident of their advantage after pre-season testing. They let Ferrari get a bit too close for comfort a couple times and it bit them. After that, they still didn't push 100%, but they gve themselves a safer margin.

Honestly, development between them wasn't really any different. As it is for most teams every year. Differences usually come down to how the car matches the tires/track/condition of the given weekend.

[Marklar]

So, Bahrain and Malaysia was sandbagging? I doubt that. In pre season testing the lap times already suggested that the Mercedes had problems with the tyres and this was also the case in the first races of the new season.

[HP]

You don't have to go as far back as 2007 to realize that talk is cheap. Look back just one year ago when Alonso, Dennis and Honda talked up all that sh*t about how competitive they were going to be right out of the box ("We're not here to finish second", "Our engine is a jewel", blah blah blah). And this year they're at it again, especially with Alonso. I was hoping that Ferrari wouldn't catch their disease of verbal diarrhea and instead just do their talking on the track. It's much more elegant that way.

Well that was McLaren PR mode, I don't give anything for what comes out of their PR department since this millennium.

 

With Ferrari, it's not such an easy case though, especially Domenicalli usually was rather cautious. With the new leadership we have to wait and see.

 

There is this an old saying however, which still applies to this day.

 

When the flag drops, the b******* stops.

Edited by HP, 10 January 2016 - 19:56.

[HP]

Mercedes were sandbagging, pretty confident of their advantage after pre-season testing. They let Ferrari get a bit too close for comfort a couple times and it bit them. After that, they still didn't push 100%, but they gve themselves a safer margin.

Honestly, development between them wasn't really any different. As it is for most teams every year. Differences usually come down to how the car matches the tires/track/condition of the given weekend.

Mercedes weakness since taking over from BrawnGP has always been their tire usage. Maybe that can be traced back to Ross Brawn though because even when Ferrari had tailor made tires by Bridgestone it was their weakness. Cars designed by him were great, but not kind to the tires.

 

IMO with the new engine formula Mercedes was way ahead of everyone, and so the little blips they had with tires were of no big concern. How that develops remains to be seen. Right now everybody is nursing their tires in the race, so other teams don't need to get on the same level with their engines. And the Mercedes isn't the best chassis IMO, that honour would go to Red Bull. Ferrari with a Red Bull chassis, would have run Mercedes closer. So if there is still tire nursing, Mercedes can't simply turn up the engine and be ahead of everyone. Should Mercedes however improve their tire management significantly I excpect them to have a big enough gap for this season.

 

In any case Ferrari needs to improve everywhere, except maybe in its tire usage. Although it's fashionable to blast Kimi these days, he IMO is still one of the best with tire management and he has shown that last year on several occasions, despite all the other things that were not as stellar as hoped for.

Edited by HP, 10 January 2016 - 19:57.

[Nathan]

So is Ferrari emphasizing the delayed start to the '16 car to help us forget about how they were able to do that and probably get away with it by co-designing the Haas car?

[YoungGun]

If anything Ferrari are very optimistic and have set the bar high for themselves for 2016. Probably much of that is due to keeping the momentum in high gear and building on a successful 2015 campaign now that they have gone public.

 

Encouraging none the less that they have set high goals. I have this gut feeling Allison will execute the plan to perfection and demonstrate that Newey is not the only magician.

[Niceman]

We saw some innovation from Ferrari on the aero side last year and that is very encouraging.  Something that Allison had recognised as a problem or weakness (creative risk taking).   Really looking forward to the new season now!

[steferrari]

I wonder what this is...

 

http://readysetred.ferrari.com

[Richard T]

I wonder what this is...

 

http://readysetred.ferrari.com

 

I quite like Ferraris new marketing approach since the beginning of last year. 

 

Scuderia Ferrari ‏@ScuderiaFerrari  20m

20 minutes ago

We are busy preparing something like never before, are you ready for it? #ReadySetRed http://readysetred.ferrari.com 

 

[TheRacingElf]

That would be a bit early for a car launch wouldn't it?

[Gilles4Ever]

 

Craig Scarborough ‏@ScarbsF1  3m3 minutes ago

Something new, @scarbsf1 imagining the Ferrari 667 in @autosprint magazine

[Marklar]

The nose....

 

[muramasa]

that camera strut not allowed from this year I heard

[427MkIV]

Pushrod or pullrod? That's all that matters.