193 replies to this topic

[V8 Fireworks]

Saloons are back, is it on the way out, is it on the upswing, who is to say?  Will Volvo and Nissan return for 2017, or will they follow Ford in saying sayonara to a low return on investment?    26 starters, not many for a touring car field. 

 

Prodrive Racing Australia

#1 - Winterbottom

#6 - Waters

#55 - Mostert

# 111 - Pither

 

Volvo Cyan Racing

#33 - McLaughin

#34 - Moffat

 

Triple Eight Race Engineering

#88 - Whincup

#97 - van Gisbergen

#888 - Lowndes

 

 

 

Team Penske Dick Johnson Racing

# 12 - Coulthard

#17 - Pye

 

Nissan Motorsport Australia

#7 - T Kelly

#15 - R Kelly

#23 - Caruso

#96 - Wood

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 20 February 2016 - 00:06.

[V8 Fireworks]

Poles for Pye (Team Penske) and Mostert (Prodrive Racing) in Ford Falcons at the Adelaide 500. 

 

[RPM40]

Whincup will walk away with this. He's by far the biggest talent on the grid and 888 are a class operation.

[DS27]

Whincup will walk away with this. He's by far the biggest talent on the grid and 888 are a class operation.

 

I think Shane may have something to say on that, but yes, Whincup will be hard to stop.

 

That being said, if Chaz can cut a few of the mistakes out, he could be in with a great shout, as his one lap speed is incredible.

 

Scotty is as impressive as ever as well but thought Moffat would be much closer, it's as though Volvo can't produce 2 good cars, though to be fair for most of last year they couldn't even produce 1! 

[RPM40]

I think Shane may have something to say on that, but yes, Whincup will be hard to stop.

 

That being said, if Chaz can cut a few of the mistakes out, he could be in with a great shout, as his one lap speed is incredible.

 

Scotty is as impressive as ever as well but thought Moffat would be much closer, it's as though Volvo can't produce 2 good cars, though to be fair for most of last year they couldn't even produce 1! 

 

McLaughlin is a special talent. I rate him up there with the best. 

 

As much as I'd like to see Craig win this one, I think last year was his best chance before retirement. He now has two drivers outright faster than him in the same car. I have to wonder if his commitment level is as high as it was once upon a time, when he sets his mind to it he seems as fast as anyone but he goes into these pace slumps. 

Edited by RPM40, 04 March 2016 - 23:01.

[Eff One 2002]

It's great that Frosty got that Championship in last year when he had the chance, because sadly without any Ford factory support whatsoever this year, I predict Prodrive will drop down the order and have a harder time against the works Nissan, Holden and Volvo teams. 

[Peter0Scandlyn]

Not Nissan, the other two sure.

[DS27]

Race 1 was so-so, but race 2 was okay. The last lap commitment through Turn 8 from the leaders was grin-inducing.

 

Looking forward to the longer race tonight.

 

Edit: Blanchard blaming GT for the collision was funny, he couldn't have been further off track. a trip to Specsavers required.

Edited by DS27, 05 March 2016 - 10:44.

[king_crud]

how is the health of the series these days?

[mistareno]

Race 1 was so-so, but race 2 was okay. The last lap commitment through Turn 8 from the leaders was grin-inducing.

 

Looking forward to the longer race tonight.

 

Edit: Blanchard blaming GT for the collision was funny, he couldn't have been further off track. a trip to Specsavers required.

 

The last 3 or 4 laps were pretty intense. Great driving from both. Too often those tight contests end with one car facing the wrong way. After losing their way early last year, 888/Whincup seems to have the car setup how he likes it again. Minimal wheelwork and easy on the tyres. Be interesting to see how SVG goes against JW as the season progresses.

Edited by mistareno, 05 March 2016 - 12:15.

[RPM40]

The last 3 or 4 laps were pretty intense. Great driving from both. Too often those tight contests end with one car facing the wrong way. After losing their way early last year, 888/Whincup seems to have the car setup how he likes it again. Minimal wheelwork and easy on the tyres. Be interesting to see how SVG goes against JW as the season progresses.

 

SVG got pretty unlucky in the pits, I think he went pretty well. 

 

Craig looks really off the boil. Does anyone know how much of his team is new?

[mistareno]

I fully expect SVG to be the equal of (or superior to) JW on pace as the season progresses. I'm just not sure if his temperament is conducive to winning championships. I personally lost alot of respect for SVG when he intentionally punted off Reynolds at PI last year and showed contempt by his lack of remorse and statement that he would do it again. Made me question his maturity and attitude. 

Edited by mistareno, 05 March 2016 - 12:40.

[V8 Fireworks]

how is the health of the series these days?

 

Poor. Many of the teams have issues to find sufficient sponsorship.  Little to no interest from manufacturers.  Nissan particularly should feel cheated that had to spend so much to make their DOHC engine competitive with the spec of the pushrod engines... the engine development rules are very restrictive for new manufacturers, and do not allow the natural strengths of modern DOHC engines with their original-equipment variable timing systems banned, and low rpm and very low compression ratio mandated (just 10:1, when road cars have 12.5:1 these days).

 

It's very, very close though... which is impressive.  Very competitive. 

 

It would be healthy to see Nissan and Volvo winning regularly.  

 

Having 14 of 26 cars in the Holden manufacturer is very unhealthy.  There are more Holden brand cars than *all the other brands combined*.  They are the only brand with any interest... good for them I suppose.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 05 March 2016 - 16:56.

[Lee Nicolle]

Poor. Many of the teams have issues to find sufficient sponsorship.  Little to no interest from manufacturers.  Nissan particularly should feel cheated that had to spend so much to make their DOHC engine competitive with the spec of the pushrod engines... the engine development rules are very restrictive for new manufacturers, and do not allow the natural strengths of modern DOHC engines with their original-equipment variable timing systems banned, and low rpm and very low compression ratio mandated (just 10:1, when road cars have 12.5:1 these days).

 

It's very, very close though... which is impressive.  Very competitive. 

 

It would be healthy to see Nissan and Volvo winning regularly.  

 

Having 14 of 26 cars in the Holden manufacturer is very unhealthy.  There are more Holden brand cars than *all the other brands combined*.  They are the only brand with any interest... good for them I suppose.

Yes, V8 Stupid Cars are fairly sick and will continue to get worse with a lack of money due to a lack of TV.

BUT the 'new' manufacturers have supposedly superior engine designs and actually the Holden [short deck Chev] has a good design emasculated.

The Ford is the only one with similarity to a normal engine, that being a 69 Boss 302!

We keep hearing how good OHC 4 valve engines are. Why dont they go faster? Even if they do use more fuel. Poor development, Bettys Benz suffered the worst. They now have Holdens that go no faster though!

The Datsun does seem to have plenty off the corner now, the fat ugly bodyshape hurts it high speed capabilities as well as the biggest wing in the class! The Ovlov seem reliable but is down on power though the car is by far the smallest.

 

12.5-1 road cars? Which one, none to my knowledge and especially in Oz with 91 octane fuel. Many are close to 10-1, still quite good on crap fuel.

[Lee Nicolle]

Race 1 was so-so, but race 2 was okay. The last lap commitment through Turn 8 from the leaders was grin-inducing.

 

Looking forward to the longer race tonight.

 

Edit: Blanchard blaming GT for the collision was funny, he couldn't have been further off track. a trip to Specsavers required.

Tim does have a point, he locked up to avoid the hormone replacement car. Which had a hormone replacement!

Two Holdens with electrical problems in one race. Lucky Courtney is doing well, Garth is just in the way!

[V8 Fireworks]

 

12.5-1 road cars? 

 

Toyota 86/ Subaru BRZ is 12.5

 

Furthermore, Mazda's Skyactiv petrol engines (in the Mazda 3) have a compression ratio of 13.0 http://www.carsales....AG-AD-12181230/

(under "specifications > engine")

 

Both common, run-of-the-mill road cars. 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 06 March 2016 - 00:20.

[V8 Fireworks]

Qualifying, sunday:

 

[mistareno]

Did Moffat bin it or was it a car issue?

[Lee Nicolle]

Toyota 86/ Subaru BRZ is 12.5

 

Furthermore, Mazda's Skyactiv petrol engines (in the Mazda 3) have a compression ratio of 13.0 http://www.carsales....AG-AD-12181230/

(under "specifications > engine")

 

Both common, run-of-the-mill road cars. 

Nothing there quoting compression ratio. I doubt the Subaru engine has 13-1 either.

[Lee Nicolle]

The Adelaide track strikes again, not suitable at all when it rains. No drainage and white lines everywhere. Worse none of the problems have ever be adressed in about 30 years. That is why street circuits are junk, none of them are any good when it rains. Even Bathurst.

Though I am 6km away [I can hear the cars]  and have had about 10 big drops. That happened GP days too.

Edit as I type it is starting to rain.

Edit quite heavily and it is getting cooler, I will not have to water!

[Jimisgod]

That was the single worst race I have ever had the misfortune of watching. I thought F1 was bad but that was a farce like nothing else.

[Jimisgod]

The Adelaide track strikes again, not suitable at all when it rains. No drainage and white lines everywhere. Worse none of the problems have ever be adressed in about 30 years. That is why street circuits are junk, none of them are any good when it rains. Even Bathurst.

Though I am 6km away [I can hear the cars]  and have had about 10 big drops. That happened GP days too.

Edit as I type it is starting to rain.

Edit quite heavily and it is getting cooler, I will not have to water!

 

Are you off your meds? Wet Bathurst is incredible.

[Lee Nicolle]

Another farce from V8 Stupid Cars. Stupidly complex set of rules that do not take into account common sense. On a track that does not make common sense.

Congrats though to young Nick, a good peddler, and his team owner too. A farce but they did win.

And for Bugle Beak. Nicks father runs a workshop [Percat Automotive] and has for over 30 years.

[RPM40]

What a complete farce. That was a great race up until that nonsense. 

[RPM40]

That was the single worst race I have ever had the misfortune of watching. I thought F1 was bad but that was a farce like nothing else.

 

Nothing against Percat, but why does driving around at the back of the field mean you deserve a win? Honestly, McLaughlin and Lowndes were robbed. They were up there on merit. 

[Muzzyf1]

Nothing against Percat, but why does driving around at the back of the field mean you deserve a win? Honestly, McLaughlin and Lowndes were robbed. They were up there on merit.

Totally agree they were robbed by a silly rule about fuel for a race that was shortened by weather.

Percat has been no where since he went solo in the series ,
Really disappointing race in terms of rules and regs

[ClubmanGT]

An utter waste of a day, only to have the result decided by the idiot who wrote a rule book that has a specific provision for points and shortened races, but not fuel use. 

 

A trainwreck when JC spins under the SC even though it was just as went and dangerous as when they red flagged it - why the hell wasn't that done sooner? Robbed us of a front-runner.

 

Officials, who if T8 are to be believed, didn't start the race in the correct way at all.

 

A multiple series champion with a reputation for bumping and running who destroyed the rear diffuser of another car gets no penalty at all.

 

Pitlane releases that are deemed to be fine if there's no contact, even if it's only because the blokes holding the gap you drive into completely button off to avoid contact. 

 

The real mug is me. I sat there and watched, expecting a race to be played out. Now I know I can safely ignore the first 40% of any Enduro because it's meaningless. 

[RPM40]

An utter waste of a day, only to have the result decided by the idiot who wrote a rule book that has a specific provision for points and shortened races, but not fuel use. 

 

A trainwreck when JC spins under the SC even though it was just as went and dangerous as when they red flagged it - why the hell wasn't that done sooner? Robbed us of a front-runner.

 

Officials, who if T8 are to be believed, didn't start the race in the correct way at all.

 

A multiple series champion with a reputation for bumping and running who destroyed the rear diffuser of another car gets no penalty at all.

 

Pitlane releases that are deemed to be fine if there's no contact, even if it's only because the blokes holding the gap you drive into completely button off to avoid contact. 

 

The real mug is me. I sat there and watched, expecting a race to be played out. Now I know I can safely ignore the first 40% of any Enduro because it's meaningless. 

 

Whincup also really got let off today, because all of his competitors who were on for real points, McLaughlin, Lowndes, Courtney, Van Gisbergen, all got caught up in the mess and were relegated down into the field.

 

I'm also a bit sick of the commentators saying "This is amazing" when nothing is happening. Cars driving quickly and not passing is not amazing, its motorsport.

[statman]

I have a question: does anyone know why Motors TV doesn't have this race? Not live nor repeat or delayed coverage. Last season they had everything. Motors TV international that is.

 

Hope they didn't lose the rights..

[Lee Nicolle]

An utter waste of a day, only to have the result decided by the idiot who wrote a rule book that has a specific provision for points and shortened races, but not fuel use. 

 

A trainwreck when JC spins under the SC even though it was just as went and dangerous as when they red flagged it - why the hell wasn't that done sooner? Robbed us of a front-runner.

 

Officials, who if T8 are to be believed, didn't start the race in the correct way at all.

 

A multiple series champion with a reputation for bumping and running who destroyed the rear diffuser of another car gets no penalty at all.

 

Pitlane releases that are deemed to be fine if there's no contact, even if it's only because the blokes holding the gap you drive into completely button off to avoid contact. 

 

The real mug is me. I sat there and watched, expecting a race to be played out. Now I know I can safely ignore the first 40% of any Enduro because it's meaningless. 

Choreographed motor racing [not sport] will always be like that. Today was a 78 lap race that meant you had to stay out of trouble and on the lead lap then a caution will bunch the field for a 'thrilling' finish.

Despite the infractions of rules seemingly by V8SC the race has a winner and a LOT of agrieved teams and drivers. Nick won a 3 lap race and congrats too him and Lucas. But a dubious win!

Yesterday had a good finish with Courtney and Whincup, today was just a debacle because of the weather.

BUT as has been known for 30 years that place is a disaster when it rains as the drainage is crap. All the walls and etc stuff up the drainage big time and all the Wakefield Rd water runs around the corner to turn 11. And the turn 1 water runs into Wakefield St

And ofcourse turn 8 is a killer wet dry hot and cool!

 

And please, get Skaife off the air, he is annoying and talks crap. 

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 06 March 2016 - 09:18.

[king_crud]

For those of us who couldn't watch it, what happened and why is it a farce?

[KOMORI]

Well... The race was won by Percat, as he'd taken on the mandated 140l of fuel: but the race was heavily shortened by rain, meaning that a lot of guys ahead of him had not yet done their final pit stop. There was nothing in the rules regarding a shortened race and the possibility of such a thing preventing pit stops, with the result that the leaders were penalized 30 seconds..

Farcical. Not to mention they didn't actually start the race properly, but that was swept under the carpet so I've got no idea on how that was resolved..

[Prost1997T]

 

Chaos had reigned from the outset, with several teams confused as to whether the initial laps under Safety Car were being counted as part of the race and therefore whether the first part of the fuel drop could be completed.

 

and

 

 

James Courtney made his way to the front before being spun by Van Gisbergen, handing the front-running to Lowndes.

 

also seem pretty important. By the sound of it Percat is about as deserving a winner as Mario Dominguez at the 2002 Honda Indy 300 (funnily enough, also storm hit at an Australian street circuit - Surfers Paradise).

[Victor_RO]

3 laps into the race 3 recording and I'm really starting to hate Skaife as a commentator. 

[RPM40]

Does it not seem stupid in the era of fuel consciousness to have a MINIMUM fuel rule?

[KOMORI]

Does it not seem stupid in the era of fuel consciousness to have a MINIMUM fuel rule?

That's to do with the fact that the Nissans and Mercs couldn't make the power of the Holden/Ford engines without using more fuel, so they make up a rule that forces parity via the amount of fuel carried..

Makes perfect sense lol..

[V8 Fireworks]

Nothing there quoting compression ratio. I doubt the Subaru engine has 13-1 either.

 

You doubt incorrectly.  straight from the horse's mouth.

 

http://www.mazda.com...tiv/skyactiv-g/ "Up to 14:1"

 

http://www3.toyota.c...sed-d4-s-engine "4-cylinder unit with a compression ratio of 12.5:1,"

 

Technology advances... 

 

well done to percat on winning, by the way.    time certain is a poor show, lots of daylight left - run the full race!

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 06 March 2016 - 13:52.

[V8 Fireworks]

Does it not seem stupid in the era of fuel consciousness to have a MINIMUM fuel rule?

 

Does it not seem stupid in the era of fuel consciousness to have a MINIMUM fuel rule?

 

no. nissan uses more fuel due to being hobbled. it's only fair.

[V8 Fireworks]

Farcical. Not to mention they didn't actually start the race properly, but that was swept under the carpet so I've got no idea on how that was resolved..

 

NO

 

It is unfair to those who DID stop and put the fuel in if the others don't have to. the rule is only fair and sensible.

[V8 Fireworks]

McLaughlin and Lowndes were robbed. They were up there on merit. 

 

percat kept it out of the walls and deserved to win.

 

mclaughlin and lowndes had every chance to pit and put the fuel in! why should percat lose time and position by pitting for fuel, and mclaughlin not have to do the same. now THAT would be a farce.

[Victor_RO]

NO

 

It is unfair to those who DID stop and put the fuel in if the others don't have to. the rule is only fair and sensible.

 

Not really, I would think the rule should take into account the case of a race going to time instead of distance, and downsize the minimum fuel drop based on the distance NOT covered in the race. Would be the logical thing. So, for example, with 15 laps of a 60-lap race not being run, maybe have the minimum fuel drop as 105 liters instead of 140? Cut a quarter from the fuel drop if a quarter of the race distance is not run?

[V8 Fireworks]

Not really, I would think the rule should take into account the case of a race going to time instead of distance, and downsize the minimum fuel drop based on the distance NOT covered in the race. Would be the logical thing. So, for example, with 15 laps of a 60-lap race not being run, maybe have the minimum fuel drop as 105 liters instead of 140? Cut a quarter from the fuel drop if a quarter of the race distance is not run?

 

But that is NOT the rule.

 

Therefore teams DID pit and LOSE POSITION to put in their 140L.  So why should those teams who did pit and refuel IN GOOD FAITH be punished by a retrospective rule change?

 

To change the rules on the fly, and penalise teams who DID PIT, DID lose tme, DID lose poition and put in their 140L in good faith would be massively, massively unfair.

 

sure the rule can  be changed for the future and then teams will not pit to put in their full fuel as soon as possible, as most did in this race.  to change rules on the fly during the race would be unacceptable.

 

Percat pitted and refuelled as early as possible BASED ON THE RULE about needing to refuel 140L, knowing that there would be a time certain finish and they needed to get that fuel in the car ASAP.  He did not pit "for fun".  

 

Therefore Percat should NOT be penalised compared to those who did not pit (and who therefore did not lose time and position, and should therefore correctly, either pit, as some did, or be penalised, as some were).

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 06 March 2016 - 14:29.

[August]

no. nissan uses more fuel due to being hobbled. it's only fair.

Why not a car model-specific refueling restrictor, making each car use the same time to fill the tank?

Edit: I mean same time for fuel for same distance.

Edited by August, 06 March 2016 - 14:46.

[Jimisgod]

F1 hasn't even started and we may have had the most farcical race of the year. Bernie has to up his game.

[Victor_RO]

But that is NOT the rule.

 

Therefore teams DID pit and LOSE POSITION to put in their 140L.  So why should those teams who did pit and refuel IN GOOD FAITH be punished by a retrospective rule change?

 

To change the rules on the fly, and penalise teams who DID PIT, DID lose tme, DID lose poition and put in their 140L in good faith would be massively, massively unfair.

 

sure the rule can  be changed for the future and then teams will not pit to put in their full fuel as soon as possible, as most did in this race.  to change rules on the fly during the race would be unacceptable.

 

Percat pitted and refuelled as early as possible BASED ON THE RULE about needing to refuel 140L, knowing that there would be a time certain finish and they needed to get that fuel in the car ASAP.  He did not pit "for fun".  

 

Therefore Percat should NOT be penalised compared to those who did not pit (and who therefore did not lose time and position, and should therefore correctly, either pit, as some did, or be penalised, as some were).

 

I'm just saying that they should have thought ahead and adjusted the rule for this case before the season started. Or thought of this case when they introduced this rule way back whenever it was. I wasn't saying that they should change the rules in the middle of a racing weekend.

[mistareno]

I'd be interested to know if some of the cars simply hadn't used enough fuel prior to their last 'normal' stop to actually get 140L in the tank. Percat (and others) may have started the race low on fuel to stagger the strategies in order to prevent double stacking or simply to try and make some headway early on.

When the cars were fuelled, the track was dry. Fuel can't be added or removed on the grid. Under wet conditions, fuel useage is greatly reduced.

The race was shortened so dramatically that its possible the cars that started with the maximum 115L of fuel couldn't physically comply with the rules. If thats the case then its pretty farcical. What are they supposed to do? Drain fuel out in pit lane? You can't fit 100L into a tank with only 50L space available, regardless of what the rule book says.

Edited by mistareno, 06 March 2016 - 16:29.

[BellisEndis]

Totally agree they were robbed by a silly rule about fuel for a race that was shortened by weather.

Percat has been no where since he went solo in the series ,
Really disappointing race in terms of rules and regs

 

Race went full distance IMO, yes they didn't  make the number of laps but it was a time certain race and they made it to that time..

 

Rules are rules, yes it may not of been the best rule but they can't disregard the rules just because...

 

Also nice to see Lee his usual self

[V8 Fireworks]

What are they supposed to do?

 

The alternative of being unable to add the fuel is simple: a time addition to their race time.

 

In lieu of adding the fuel, they are supposed to and did receive a time addition.  Pretty simple and fair. 

[Rjpscr]

Percat won and its great to see the smallest team win. Its not there fault that they played the strategy right and others didn't. He also kept it out of the walls and stayed on track the whole race. So Stop being crybaby's

[Dolph]

Race 1 was so-so, but race 2 was okay. The last lap commitment through Turn 8 from the leaders was grin-inducing.

 

Looking forward to the longer race tonight.

 

Edit: Blanchard blaming GT for the collision was funny, he couldn't have been further off track. a trip to Specsavers required.

 

I agree. Blanchard panicked, locked up and hit a car that was not on track. But his description of the events was on another level of unreality: "There was nowhere to go", "I had two choices: hit him or go into the wall", "it ruined our race for no reason"