51 replies to this topic

[subh]

Other ranking systems are available, but I am looking to fill in some gaps for recent Autocourse annual top ten driver lists. Would someone kindly add these in please? With thanks:

2010
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Lewis Hamilton
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Mark Webber
5. Robert Kubica
6. Jenson Button
7. Nico Rosberg
8. Rubens Barrichello
9. Felipe Massa
10. Michael Schumacher

2011
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Jenson Button
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Lewis Hamilton
5. Nico Rosberg
6. Mark Webber
7. Michael Schumacher
8. Paul di Resta
9. Adrian Sutil
10. Heikki Kovalainen

2012
??

2013
??

2014
1. Lewis Hamilton
2. Daniel Ricciardo
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Nico Rosberg
5. Valtteri Bottas
6. Sebastian Vettel
7. Jenson Button
8. Nico Hülkenberg
9. Daniil Kvyat
10. Kevin Magnussen

2015
??

[Bleu]

2012

1. Alonso

2. Vettel

3. Hamilton

4. Räikkönen

5. Button

6. Hülkenberg

7. Webber

8. Perez

9. Maldonado

10. Ricciardo

[midgrid]

There is a topic on this in the Nostalgia Forum which should give you a complete set.

[subh]

Thanks Bleu.

 

I know about the Nostalgia topic on this as I have posted on that thread.  The latest lists are not considered nostalgic, apparently.  Only 13 and 15 missing now.

[PRD]

Autocourse Top Ten 2015

 

1. Hamilton

2. Vettel

3. Ricciardo

4. Rosberg

5. Grosjean

6. Verstappen

7. Alonso

8. Bottas

9. Kvyat

10. Perez

[subh]

Thanks PRD.

[Gimax]

And finally, to complete the set, here's 2013:

 

1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Hamilton
4. Rosberg
5. Raikkonen
6. Grosjean
7. Hulkenberg
8. Webber
9. Button
10. Ricciardo

[subh]

Thanks very much Gimax!

[GSiebert]

I prefer Alan Moore's Top 10.

[subh]

Would someone kindly add the list for 2016? Thank you.

[subh]

if anyone has a moment, thanks

[subh]

Giving this another try in case it’s a quiet moment - with thanks.

[uffen]

I cancelled all my social engagements...

 

1.Hamilton

2. Ricciardo

3. Rosberg

4. Verstappen

5. Alonso

6. Bottas

7. Sainz

8. Vettel

9. Perez

10. Hulkenberg

[subh]

I’m grateful, thanks. Curious selection...

[Henri Greuter]

I’m grateful, thanks. Curious selection...

 

 

No offence intended but the selection is as curious as your avatar on what is primarily a car racing forum.

 

 

Henri

[subh]

Apologies for reviving this thread, but I wonder if anyone can enlighten on the 2017 selection.  Thank you.

[Bleu]

Apologies for reviving this thread, but I wonder if anyone can enlighten on the 2017 selection.  Thank you.

 

1. Hamilton

2. Verstappen

3. Ricciardo

4. Vettel

5. Alonso

6. Bottas

7. Ocon

8. Sainz

9. Hülkenberg

10. Perez

[Henri Greuter]

I have read a 2018 list yesterday.
I'm gonna read it tonight another time to find of if I truly did read what I think i did read yesterday.
Because when I think about what I believe I did read yesterday, I think I've dreamed it or had a bad fantasy.

What I read yesterday was one if the worst top 10s about 2018 I have read yet up till now.

[midgrid]

You tease!

[Henri Greuter]

You tease!

if I can believe my eyes: One driver who was classified within the top 6 of the season standings was deemed not worthy enough to be included within the top 10 ......
I know, I wasn't impressed with him either but not being rated good enoug tobe among the 10 best drivers of the year, in short the first hal of all drivers, eve I can't agree with that.....

[Afterburner]

if I can believe my eyes: One driver who was classified within the top 6 of the season standings was deemed not worthy enough to be included within the top 10 ......
I know, I wasn't impressed with him either but not being rated good enoug tobe among the 10 best drivers of the year, in short the first hal of all drivers, eve I can't agree with that.....

I’m guessing based on popular journalist-bashing targets it’s either Vettel, Raikkonen, or Bottas, who even in their best years will probably struggle to get the credit they’re due.

[theflyingwheel]

Lol Sainz ahead of Hulk and Perez yeah right.

[noriaki]

I have not read the list but given the pace advantage F1 enjoyed over F1.5, one could easily build an argument to exclude one of the top 6 from the list of top 10 performers of the year, and potentially construct an argument against two others in the top6 too if you factor in the preseason expectations.

[ANF]

if I can believe my eyes: One driver who was classified within the top 6 of the season standings was deemed not worthy enough to be included within the top 10 ......
I know, I wasn't impressed with him either but not being rated good enoug tobe among the 10 best drivers of the year, in short the first hal of all drivers, eve I can't agree with that.....

Only one?

[sopa]

I haven't seen the ratings, but I assume the odd one out was Bottas? He was at times left out in this forum's top 10 as well, and doesn't have a good reputation at the moment.

 

Rating and comparing the second tier drivers is always difficult, and leaving somebody out always feels somebody is hard done-by. Try to choose between the likes of Hulk, Bottas, Perez or Ocon.

[Henri Greuter]

I haven't seen the ratings, but I assume the odd one out was Bottas? He was at times left out in this forum's top 10 as well, and doesn't have a good reputation at the moment.

 

Rating and comparing the second tier drivers is always difficult, and leaving somebody out always feels somebody is hard done-by. Try to choose between the likes of Hulk, Bottas, Perez or Ocon.

 

 

No, but you had one element about the omitted driver correct.....

 

I've read the list again and my eys didn't deceive me yesterday....

 

 

Listed as being: The Editors Choice: (Tony Dodgins )  read and shiver....

 

Hamilton

Alonso

Verstappen

Vettel

Ricciardo

Bottas

Leclerc

Hulkenberg

Perez

Gasly

 

 

 

A very interesting comment by Mr. Dodgins about how he made up his list....

 

Quted from the description about #9 Perez:

"Mindful that Pierre Gasly's impressive debut season at Toro Rosso would see him claim the final spot in 2018's Top ten: it was a toss up whether to include Perez or team mate Esteban Ocon at number nine."

 

So: Perez and Ocon were too close to differ and needed a toss of the coin to be splitted yet the looser was ranked to be below Gasly!

[ANF]

Oh dear, he left the wrong guy out. (The correct top 10 would have been Hamilton—Leclerc—Verstappen—Alonso—Pérez—Ricciardo—Räikkönen—Ocon—Gasly—Hülkenberg.)

[Oho]

The compiler of the list must really dislike Kimi Räikkönen...

[P123]

No sympathy for Kimi and the numerous reliability issues he suffered, plus the loss of a potential pole at Hungary due where they stuck him out on track? The F1 media are busy telling us how wronged his teammate was, so...

[boillot]

Kimi deserved a top 10 place, of course he did. Bottas maybe did not, especially not P6.

[Oho]

No sympathy for Kimi and the numerous reliability issues he suffered, plus the loss of a potential pole at Hungary due where they stuck him out on track? The F1 media are busy telling us how wronged his teammate was, so...

 

Indeed Raikkonen on the mean scored about one point less per race than his team mate if one overlooks his retirements none of which can be pinned on him....

[ensign14]

Alternatively, he had the best car in the field and only won once.

[Oho]

Alternatively, he had the best car in the field and only won once.

 

He did? Must have missed that, though I am not alone in that respect.... Hell the likelihood is pretty good that he did not even have the best car in the sole race he actually did win....

Edited by Oho, 11 January 2019 - 14:33.

[inox]

I wonder what is the Autocourse Top Ten list for 2019? Is Kimi back on the list?

[Henri Greuter]

I wonder what is the Autocourse Top Ten list for 2019? Is Kimi back on the list?

No he wasn't

[PlatenGlass]

if I can believe my eyes: One driver who was classified within the top 6 of the season standings was deemed not worthy enough to be included within the top 10 ......
I know, I wasn't impressed with him either but not being rated good enoug tobe among the 10 best drivers of the year, in short the first hal of all drivers, eve I can't agree with that.....

Without making a specific argument about Raikkonen, I can find it quite conceivable that someone could finish in the top six in a season and not be rated in the top ten drivers. Just like someone could be in the bottom six in the season and not be rated in the worst ten drivers. The car is quite important.

[inox]

In 2018 it was quite weird though that Kimi ended 3rd in the championship and was left out from the Top Ten list. For some reason, Bottas who finished 5th in the superior car, made the list at 6th. I think British journos invented that Ferrari was superior on that year and it was only because of supremacy of Hamilton that they won. As well as Hamilton drove, that was not really the case. Ferrari and Mercedes were pretty even in first half, but in the latter half Mercedes got the upper hand. It was not like Hamilton suddenly got faster himself.

[Risil]

Journalists crave novelty and I think there was the perception that Kimi had held on a little too long. Seems unfair to me too, given how he actually won a race (and in style!) that year.

[inox]

Anyway, could someone share the 2019 Top Ten list?

 

I have currently 16 editions in the shelf (mostly from 90's) and have tried to stop buying these because I can't really have all of them. Somehow I still got irritated and ordered the 2018 edition. This is exactly what journos wanted with their stupid top ten list. Anyway, getting it mostly for other reasons. It was rather good Ferrari year and a nice farewell performance from Kimi as well. 

[rmhorton]

2019 Top Ten

 

 

 

1. Hamilton

2.Verstappen

3.Leclerc

4. Vettel

5.Bottas

6.Sainz

7.Ricciardo

8.Perez

9.Norris

10.Russell

Edited by rmhorton, 27 April 2020 - 00:32.

[Atreiu]

We should start our own random top tens. Not much else to do.

1. Norisring
2. Road America
3. Portland
4. Yeongam
5. Termas Rio Hondo
6. Motorland Aragon
7. La Sarthe
8. Mugello
9. Mt Panorama
10. Imola

[jAnO76]

1. Dolly Parton
2. Bread
3. The flu
4. The fly
5. Lewis GOAT
6. Brazil 2012
7. Bob the builder
8. Duvel triple hop
9. Random top 10 lists
10. Miami Vice

[Collombin]

1 The Psychiatrist
2 Basil The Rat
3 The Kipper and the Corpse
4 The Hotel Inspectors
5 Waldorf Salad
6 The Germans
7 Communication Problems
8 A Touch of Class
9 The Builders
10 Gourmet Night

[ensign14]

1 Dywa

2 Life

3 Arzani-Volpini

4 McGuire

5 Kauhsen

6 Apollon

7 Maki

8 CTA

9 SEFAC

10 Andrea Moda

[ensign14]

1 Mario Alborghetti

2 Otto Stuppacher

3 Ottorino Volonterio

4 Brian McGuire

5 Giovanna Amati

6 Claudio Langes

7 "Wal Ever"

8 Dave Walker

9 Jean-Denis Deletraz

10 Al Pease

[FortiFord]

In 2018 it was quite weird though that Kimi ended 3rd in the championship and was left out from the Top Ten list. For some reason, Bottas who finished 5th in the superior car, made the list at 6th. I think British journos invented that Ferrari was superior on that year and it was only because of supremacy of Hamilton that they won. As well as Hamilton drove, that was not really the case. Ferrari and Mercedes were pretty even in first half, but in the latter half Mercedes got the upper hand. It was not like Hamilton suddenly got faster himself.

 

Not sure about the part in bold. 

 

For the 2nd half of the season i count about 5 or 6 races where Ferrari was faster than Mercedes (Germany, Hungary, Belgium, Italy, Mexico with USA being debatable). 

[LucaP]

1 Speak to Me
2 Breathe
3 On The Run
4 Time
5 The Great Gig In The Sky
6 Money
7 Us and Them
8 Any Colour You Like
9 Brain Damage
10 Eclipse

[ensign14]

1 Cooper Cars

2 March: Four Guys And A Telephone

3 Rob Walker - Gentleman Racer

4 Chequered Year

5 The Saga Of British Racing Motors

6 Colin Chapman: Wayward Genius

7 Race Without End

8 A Different Kind Of Life

9 John, George & The HWMs

10 Archie & The Listers

 

***

 

1 Grand Prix Racing 1906-14

2 A Record Of Motor Racing 1894-1908

3 Racing the Silver Arrows

4 Georges Roesch and the Invincible Talbots

5 Power And Glory

6 Mercedes Motor Racing

7 Mercedes & Motor Racing in the Belle Epoque

8 The Grand Prix Saboteurs

9 Board Track: Gold, Guts and Glory

10 Ten Years Of Motor Racing

 

***

 

1 Full Throttle

2 All Arms & Elbows

3 Watching The Wheels

4 The Mudge Pond Express

5 Wall Smacker

6 Crashed & Byrned

7 I Just Made The Tea

8 My Cars, My Career

9 Challenge Me The Race/Champion Year

10 Flat Out Flat Broke

[Lights]

Not sure about the part in bold. 

 

For the 2nd half of the season i count about 5 or 6 races where Ferrari was faster than Mercedes (... with USA being debatable). 

 

Alright, I'll debate. 

 

Vettel made mistake after mistake. He started 5th because of self inflicted grid penalty. Otherwise from P2 it's likely he'd have taken the lead at the start and disappeared. However Vettel being in 5th meant he had to overtake Ricciardo, which he seemed to have done on the opening lap on the back straight, but then he messed up his braking and overshot the corner. This gave Ricciardo the opportunity to come back at him, leading to Vettel losing control and spinning. He was now back in 15th, and had to fight through the traffic. In lap 13 he was 22 seconds behind race leader Kimi, at the finish flag this was 18 seconds. On the way there Vettel beat Bottas, who had a trouble-free race but it was clear the Mercedes couldn't make their tires last nearly as well as the Ferrari's could. Hamilton on 16 lap younger tires than Kimi couldn't get on Kimi's gearbox near the end. Bottas on 2 lap younger tires than Kimi dropped 17 seconds back in the last stint.

 

There was no magic here. Raikkonen had a great weekend, made possible by Vettel's mistakes. But of course Ferrari was faster than Mercedes that race. Even with his grid penalty, Vettel might have won it from P5 had he not spun on lap 1.

[inox]

Not sure about the part in bold.

For the 2nd half of the season i count about 5 or 6 races where Ferrari was faster than Mercedes (Germany, Hungary, Belgium, Italy, Mexico with USA being debatable).

I don't think there was a really an advantage for Ferrari at Belgium. Yes, they were faster in qualifying and in the beginning of stints. Hamilton was however faster at the end of stints.

Same thing at Monza, but this time Mercedes was clearly faster in the race.

This was the trend in the latter half of the season. In general, Mercedes was more often either faster or better on its tyres. Final nail to Ferrari's coffin were those cooling rims engineered by Mercedes, which helped to keep the tyres alive.

In general Vettel needed to take much more risks in order to keep championship alive. In the end, most of the points difference was down to Vettel's and Ferrari's mistakes. However, Hamilton clearly had a faster car overall. I think some British journalist failed to see this, thinking it was Hamilton who made the speed difference. For sure, Hamilton deserved to win the championship as he was virtually error free, even though he got involved in many hard fights.