140 replies to this topic

[f1steveuk]

Just had a chat with one of my older F1 mates, who I met through working at FOM, but who had retired many years before I was there.

 

We were talking about drivers we both admired, and up came the name, Francois Cevert. Now said "ex F1 old boy" has never lead my wrong, and has always be 100% accurate, even with things repeated "off the record", so this came as a surprise!

 

He tells me that Cevert, not knowing that Jackie Stewart was retiring, and that he was to lead Tyrrell in 1974, had signed a letter of intent with Shadow. Revson was only finally confirmed with Shadow after Francois' demise, although he was torn between Shadow and Ferrari, but Cevert's sudden removal from the equation, prompted Revson and Shadow to join forces.

 

Although some of it sounds plausible, and the time line sort of fits, Shadow weren't likely to be winners in 1974, so why would Cevert move, he was comfortable and happy at Tyrrell, and personally I can't see the lure of leading a mid-grid team being enough.I'm aware intent isn't the same as actually having a contract, which in F1, isn't the same as actually moving teams.

 

My friend however is adamant this was the case. Anyone heard this one before?

[john aston]

I put this into nearly the same category as the story an ex F1 guy told me about ACBC holding court in the bar at Brands late one night in the mid eighties...Intriguing but  less than plausible. There again ,in 1975  who would have believed Fittipaldi's leap into the  oblivion that was Copersucar?  

[kayemod]

Surprising to say the least, François would be certain to tell JYS about his plans, if you saw them together he treated him like a father, and I very much doubt that he would have gone against Jackie's advice, which would have been "Don't even think about it, you're much better off where you are!"

[hogstar]

This wouldn't surprise me at all. Shadow had a lot of potential, had Tony Southgate as designer and at the time were the best funded team in F1. They wanted to go places, though are often remembered for all the wrong reasons. Peterson almost went there in 1975, but after UOP pulled out, things got tight. 

 

I believe Cevert didn't officially know at the time that JYS had decided to retire. Thrown into the mix that Scheckter was rumoured to be coming on board for '74. So Francois must of thought his time was up and he had only won once, so it is entirely plausible that he was looking to move for the 1974 season. From memory, Lotus were interested, amongst others. 

 

I've always held the view that if Tyrrell had of been totally upfront with Francois about 1974, he would still be alive...

[f1steveuk]

That's the first thing that went through my mind, he would have asked JYS for advice, though diificult to see what that advice would be given that he had only told two people he was retiring.

 

Francois was very happy at Tyrrell, he knew them, they were sponsored by ELF, and they  had been winning, so why go to a year old team that hadn't shown a huge amount of potential. 

 

I have to add in though my "friends" impeccable reputation, even in F1, for not getting things wrong, so I wonder if it was merely, "if you don't stay there, can we ask first", I mean, I have seen letters of intent, that mean very little in reality, and an F1 contract could hardly always to be said to be "watertight", let alone a declaration of intent!! That Jo Ramirez knew nothing of it says a lot, but it is intriguing

 

Funny, I recall Ken saying once that he wished they had told Francois earlier about JYS' upcoming retirement, as the rumours of first Birrell and then Williamson upset him, but he merely raised his game, like in Germany, where he was quicker than JYS, and JYS had said something aalong the lines of "you'll be ok next year" without saying why

Edited by f1steveuk, 25 February 2016 - 17:30.

[Michael Ferner]

I'm firmly in the wouldn't-surprise-me camp. As hogstar said, Shadow had a lot of good ingredients, not least of it money in abundance, certainly more than Uncle Ken. It must've been tempting to imagine a new, well-funded team concentrating on its new number one driver!

[Dave Ware]

Here are a few bits from Jackie Stewart's autobiography, "Winning is Not Enough."

 

After the Canadian GP in '73 the Stewarts and Cevert went to Bermuda. Cevert told Stewart that he had been talking to Ferrari. 

 

From page 276: 

 

"Yes, you know, I have to be my own man one day.  You and Ken have this fantastic relationship, and I don't think I will ever be able to beat you.  Maybe I must find some other team"

 

He had no idea that I was planning to retire after the US Grand Prix, and that he would then become the Tyrrell No. 1.

 

"Well, I wouldn't do anything too hasty," I said.  "You're good enough that you don't have to make a decision now." 

 

I know I didn't get the quotation marks right but ya'll understand.

 

Cevert being interested in Shadow sounds unlikely to me.  I've never read anything about it.  But then, I've always been surprised that Revson joined them.  They certainly hadn't done much.  On the other hand, the main things you needed in those days were a Cosworth Ford, Goodyears, and the right driver. 

[f1steveuk]

That's another part that almost fits, both Revson AND Cevert talking to both Ferrari AND Shadow

[Dave Ware]

Did I say that I've never read anything about Cevert possibly joining Shadow?  I guess I did say that. 

 

This morning I glanced at Jean-Claude Halle's book, "Francois Cevert A Contract With Death." 

 

On page 135, Halle describes an interview between Cevert and Gerald Flocon, a corespondent for "Automobile" that took place at Watkins Glen before the '73 race:

 

"Since you've been with Tyrrell,"  Flocon asked, have you had any other offers?"

 

"Yes," answered Francois, "I've had offers from BRM, Ferrari and Shadow.  Ferrari, of course, talked a language that was difficult to resist.  They wanted me on my terms."

 

I wonder about the accuracy of some of the things in this book, but I would tend to believe this detail. 

[f1steveuk]

I suppose because Ken and Jackie had kept Francois out of the loop regarding Jackie's retirement, right up until the Glen, it was a dangerous game Tyrrell were playing. I can't think Ken wanted to lose Francois to another team.

[Dave Ware]

I suppose because Ken and Jackie had kept Francois out of the loop regarding Jackie's retirement, right up until the Glen, it was a dangerous game Tyrrell were playing. I can't think Ken wanted to lose Francois to another team.

Never thought of it that way, but yes, they did put themselves at some risk for this.  Especially as the season wore down and there were rumors of other drivers joining Tyrrell.  Perhaps they figured that if Francois was going to make a move, he'd mention it to them first, and they could convince him to stay.

 

I have never for the life of me understood why Stewart didn't tell Francois.  Stewart told Tyrrell and Walter Hayes.  I can understand that he didn't want Helen to know.  It's probable that his thinking was that the more people you tell, the more likely word will get out.  But I believe he could have trusted Francois to keep his mouth shut.  If nothing else, after that conversation in Bermuda,I wish he had said "Let's take a walk on the beach," and told him then.  Well, all of that is my outsider's opinion.  

 

Would Cevert have lived if he had known he was to be Tyrrell's Number 1?  I don't think he would have settled for fourth on the grid if he thought he could do better.  But would he have pushed himself to take the esses at high revs in fourth gear?  We'll certainly never know.  

[E1pix]

I've always held the view that if Tyrrell had of been totally upfront with Francois about 1974, he would still be alive...

Curious, been trying to figure out what you mean by this…? 

[2F-001]

In a few comments I've read in the past, there seemed to be an underlying suggestion that Cevert might have pushed a little harder on track than was prudent  in order to reaffirm his credentials either to Tyrrell - or to other teams. Or perhaps driving whilst distracted to a degree by matters of his future career.

 

I'm not sure if either of those are credible, but if the former were a possibility, wouldn't it be equally possible that had he known of Stewart's intention to retire, he might have done the same as he'd only have a few chances left to beat him?

[LittleChris]

Cevert - Could someone please produce evidence to support any assertion that he was going to be the first French GP world champion once Stewart had moved over ?
Please don't roll out Germany 1973 when the Tyrrells were so much quicker after Peterson retired on lap 1 that they could run the race at the pace they wanted and JYS could say that Francois could've overtaken him at any time (purely because he was coasting and would overtake him back before the flag).

[GF100]

I think drivers the world over,once they reach a certain level of experience and speed, court offers continually and are always open to 'offers' - if for no other reason to guage their commercial value in the marketplace. Its handy to know whats on offer and what other team principals value your services at when it comes time to renegotiate an existing contract. Cevert would have been no different I expect so a 'talk' with Shadow and any others would have been par for the course in his circumstance. Whether those talks with Shadow were more than a mere sounding out is plausible if Cevert was in the "own man" frame of mind. He gave the impression of  accepting his no 2 status as Tyrrell at that time it seemed and he appeared happy with the fact he could race competitively in good machinery but could have been looking into the future for when he felt the time was right to move on. A well funded team with good ingredients and potential would have been an attractive proposition I suspect.

 

As far as JYS not letting on his intention to retire, only he truly knows his reasons. Maybe it was just not the right time in his opinion. He and Cevert were very close as everyone knows and both had an equal admiration for each other so I don't think trust was an issue between the two.

 

Finally, having done some competitive driving (though no where we near that level) myself I can honestly say once the helmet goes on and you roll onto the circuit everything else in your life is parked back in the pits and your concentration is 100% on the job of driving as fast and cleanly as you can. His very tragic accident I believe was nothing more than a result of trying to go as fast as he could to qualify as best he could - which is what he and every driver do in qualifying. His death was a massive tragedy and he was and remains one of my all time favourite F1 drivers. The man was gifted,

[hogstar]

Curious, been trying to figure out what you mean by this…? 

 

Put yourself in his shoes at the time. He didn't know JYS was going to retire, plus various names linked to Tyrrell, so at best you your not going to feel too secure and not as focused as maybe you should. In that instance, it is possible that a driver would 'overdrive' the car and the Tyrrell 006 was certainly twitchy and arguably suited JYS' impeccable smooth driving style much better (Possible Echoes with Senna's death in that a driver is trying too hard in a nervous car) Remember Cevert crashed in the previous round with incumbent Scheckter. 

 

Maybe I should rephrase - I'm not saying Cevert wouldn't of got killed at Watkins Glen had he had been told that he was going to be kept on for '74, but it certainly would of increased his chances of not having the accident. If Cevert was such a part of the Tyrrell family, Ken should of told him. Period.  

 

As a result, you arguably had a insecure driver going into the race who shouldn't have been. A tragedy whichever way you look at it, but you don't get the best out of a driver by keeping them in the dark.

[Mallory Dan]

hogstar, its “would have" not "would of"...

[kayemod]

Cevert - Could someone please produce evidence to support any assertion that he was going to be the first French GP world champion once Stewart had moved over ?
 

 

What I thought at the time, it was a bit of a Schumacher/Irvine situation, following is a lot easier than leading, and on what we'd seen it was a bit of a stretch to see Cevert as a number one driver. Also wasn't he a bit like Ronnie, a considerable talent when it came to driving but far from the best when it came to developing a car and setting it up? He wouldn't have got far without those talents if he'd moved away from the Tyrrell/Stewart family. By unanimous agreement among his peers, a talented driver and a lovely guy, but a future World Champion? I'd say the jury is still out on that, forty three years later.

 

Put yourself in his shoes at the time. He didn't know JYS was going to retire

 

Possibly, but those two were so close that surely François would have had a pretty good idea that was going to happen, Gallic intuition n'est ce pas?

[Arjan de Roos]

Is there any chance to ask Don?

[ReWind]

Isn't there anything about this in "Pilote de légende", the book by his sister Jacqueline with Johnny Rives?

And by "this" I mean the Shadow connection.

[Michael Ferner]

Cevert - Could someone please produce evidence to support any assertion that he was going to be the first French GP world champion once Stewart had moved over ?

 

Well, I've said it before (and have been crucified for it by Cevert fans), but to think that he would have had the faintest of chances against Jody Scheckter as a team mate is pretty foolish, in my humble opinion. Those blue eyes may have melted the hearts and paralysed the minds of not only women, but as a driver he was never anything more than a very good number two.

[Michael Ferner]

Maybe I should rephrase - I'm not saying Cevert wouldn't of got killed at Watkins Glen had he had been told that he was going to be kept on for '74, but it certainly would of increased his chances of not having the accident. If Cevert was such a part of the Tyrrell family, Ken should of told him. Period.  

 

 

Can you rephrase again? I can't make any sense out of that sentence...

[kayemod]

Can you rephrase again? I can't make any sense out of that sentence...

 

Maybe you should of read it more carefully...

[hogstar]

As a slight aside, Cevert did not feature in the Autocourse Top Tens in 1972 or 1973. 

Edited by hogstar, 27 February 2016 - 11:40.

[opplock]

He didn't feature in the Top Ten in 1973 for the same reason that Jochen Rindt didn't in 1970.

[MCS]

As a slight aside, Cevert did not feature in the Autocourse Top Tens in 1972 or 1973. 

Interesting.  He was sixth in the World Driver final standings in 1972.

 

He won some F2 races in 1971 with the Tecno, but was he champion material?

[john winfield]

He was very quick in the works Matra sportscars, almost always the fastest of a talented team, but he didn't necessarily win a lot of races.  I remember him being quick in the F2 Tecno in both 1970 (Crystal Palace) and  throughout 1971. He was a threat in John Coombs' March 722 as well.

 

It's difficult to judge François at Grand Prix level, having spent all his three and a half seasons at Tyrrell as team mate to JYS. For those of us who only saw him race F1 in Britain his performances were usually a little disappointing but some of his drives elsewhere in 1973 were electrifying: Argentina, Zolder etc.  By then, driving a quick but tricky car, he seemed to have added maturity to natural speed.  I think, as Tyrrell team leader in 1974, he would have seen off Scheckter and, possibly, challenged for the title in what proved to be a very open year's racing. From 1975 onwards, to challenge for another title, he probably would have needed to leave Uncle Ken. (...for Ferrari? McLaren? Lotus? Ligier?..).  

 

A really sad loss to the sport.

[Dave Ware]

Stewart and Tyrrell regarded Cevert as a potential world champion.  One of them, I think Tyrrell, said after his death there was no doubt in his mind that Cevert would have become the first French World Champion.  I think that's about the best evidence we're going to get.  I trust their opinions.

 

Yes, he was number two to Jackie Stewart.  Who would have done better?  Did any of Clark's teammates beat him?  I've never felt that Cevert was on the same level as Stewart.  But you can become world champion without being the best driver of your era. 

 

I feel compelled to include a few snippets from "Winning is Not Enough:"

 

From page 269:

 

"...but his great passion was motor racing and to his natural flair he added a cast-iron determination to work hard, to learn and become the best driver he could be.  Some people regarded him as a playboy..."

"....and yet he was always much, much more than that."

 

Stewart was there and I wasn't, so I'll defer to his judgement. 

 

I witnessed the Cevert/Scheckter accident in Canada.  Scheckter tried a pass in turn two that could not have possibly succeeded.  The only thing Cevert could have done to prevent it would have been to move over and wave the boy by.  Although actually, in that part of that turn (at or just after the first apex), and at those speeds, I doubt even that would have been possible. 

[Henk Vasmel]

hogstar, its "would have" not "would of"...

Mallory, It's It's not its

[raceannouncer2003]

..but not with a capital "I"...

 

Vince H.

[Henk Vasmel]

..but not with a capital "I"...

 

Vince H.

[Dolph]

Cevert - Could someone please produce evidence to support any assertion that he was going to be the first French GP world champion once Stewart had moved over ?
Please don't roll out Germany 1973 when the Tyrrells were so much quicker after Peterson retired on lap 1 that they could run the race at the pace they wanted and JYS could say that Francois could've overtaken him at any time (purely because he was coasting and would overtake him back before the flag).

 

 

You come off very arrogant calling someone to adhere to your wishes. Furthermore, I am not going to roll out a single race result you somhow think is relevant. You really are arrogant.

 

 

But as a fan of statistcs I will respond to your post.

 

When looking at the 1971 results if we move Stewart out of the equation and move everyone up in points then the standings at the end of the year would be:

 

1) Peterson: 43 points

2) Cevert: 33 points

 

When looking at the 1973 results if we move Stewart out of the equation and move everyone up in points then the standings at the end of the year would be:

 

1) Fittipaldi 63 points

2) Cevert 58 points

3) Peterson 54 points

 

 

With slightly a bit more luck surely he could have become world champion. So why would anyone looking at his past results not think of him as potential future champion with Stewart out of the equation!?

[PeterElleray]

Ah, the old language barrier routine...

[f1steveuk]

I'm a great admirer of Cevert, but bald statistics mean absolutely nothing.  JYS told me to my face he thought Cevert was championship material "at that time", but there's a lot to winning a championship!! He was without doubt quick enough, and his test and devlopment skills were quite good. Again, being one of the fortunates that got/gets to talk to some of these people, it is interesting to recall what they have said. Derek Gardner held Cevert's testing skills very highly, but you could temper that, knowing that JYS had done most of the initial testing, but Francois honed his car to how he liked it. Ronnie on the other hand would simplywring a cars neck, and MAKE it go quick, then borrow his team mates settings at the end of a session, go faster, without really knowing how. I know he greatly frustrated Peter Warr at Lotus. Cevert on the other hand could, and did suggest changes that would make his car quicker. If they were changes JYS would have used, I could not say. Could Francois develop a new car, straight out of the box, into a winner? From what I have been told, yes. And in those mainly DFV days, Francois stood as much chance as any other works driver, and Ferrari wouldn't have been sniffing around unless they thought there was they were signing a winner.

 

As for Shadow, their first year wasn't bad (the cars were a bit structrually weak), but with Revson the DN3 started to look ok, but I don't think it was a winner. Cevert to Shadow still seems odd, Ferrari I could see

[Dave Ware]

Thank you, Steve, those are details I certainly didn't know and wouldn't likely have gotten anywhere else. 

[MCS]

You come off very arrogant calling someone to adhere to your wishes. Furthermore, I am not going to roll out a single race result you somhow think is relevant. You really are arrogant.

 

 

But as a fan of statistcs I will respond to your post.

 

When looking at the 1971 results if we move Stewart out of the equation and move everyone up in points then the standings at the end of the year would be:

 

1) Peterson: 43 points

2) Cevert: 33 points

 

When looking at the 1973 results if we move Stewart out of the equation and move everyone up in points then the standings at the end of the year would be:

 

1) Fittipaldi 63 points

2) Cevert 58 points

3) Peterson 54 points

 

 

With slightly a bit more luck surely he could have become world champion. So why would anyone looking at his past results not think of him as potential future champion with Stewart out of the equation!?

 

Very arrogant?   What a strange remark.

 

"LittleChris" has a deep (first-hand) knowledge of French motor racing and its history.

 

Looking at statistics is fine - and usually enjoyable for "what ifs" as we all know - but I somehow suspect that you weren't exactly following Grand Prix racing in the seventies, so any arrogance is from your side.

[Dolph]

Very arrogant?   What a strange remark.

 

"LittleChris" has a deep (first-hand) knowledge of French motor racing and its history.

 

That's right. Based on his post. Knowledge doesn't mean you can be arrogant.
 

 

Looking at statistics is fine - and usually enjoyable for "what ifs" as we all know - but I somehow suspect that you weren't exactly following Grand Prix racing in the seventies, so any arrogance is from your side.

 

You are correct, sir. I wasn't born until the eighties so any opinion relating to anything that happened before my time is pure arrogance by definition.

 

On the other hand we see today in the racing comments forum people who follow F1 at current times and we all know their opinions are ALL pure gold and nobody dears to second guess them.

 

Facts like early seventies' statistics and the cars' high unreliability rates with significant variance have nothing to do with it the matter either.

 

 

This arrogance thing is very enjoyable.

Edited by Dolph, 28 February 2016 - 19:07.

[kayemod]

That's right. Based on his post. Knowledge doesn't mean you can be arrogant.
 

This arrogance thing is very enjoyable.

 

I think you need a better English dictionary. There are many people on here that have first hand knowledge of the subjects discussed, you should be grateful for that and be prepared to learn from them, with only a very few exceptions, we don't do "arrogance" on TNF, and don't put so much faith in statistics, there's usually more than one way of interpreting them, and not always the most obvious one.

[E1pix]

This arrogance thing is very enjoyable.

Not so much… 

[GreenMachine]

This is not Racing Comments.  Hopefully it will never be Racing Comments.

[LittleChris]

"LittleChris" has a deep (first-hand) knowledge of French motor racing and its history.

If only that were the case !!

I can only state how I viewed things at the time and I've never seen or read anything since to make me change my mind.
Sorry Dolph but that's just the way I see it - rightly or wrongly. Sadly we'll never know.

[MCS]

You are far too modest, Little Chris.

 

Dolph, keep your posts and stats coming.  Debate is always good and we can all have an opinion.

Edited by MCS, 28 February 2016 - 21:42.

[Dave Ware]

Thanks again, Steve, for starting this thread.  It was interesting and enjoyable.  It took an unexpected turn, as threads will often do.  That has been mostly interesting as well. 

 

Motor Sport sent me an email which includes this article, which answers the non-Shadow related questions that have appeared here and in other threads about Francois Cevert.  Here is the link to the article:

 

http://www.motorspor... in Motor Sport

 

I was going to leave this issue alone, but since I'm posting this, I'll agree with Dolph that I found LittleChris' post annoying.  If nothing else, I don't care to be told to provide evidence for something while being told to withhold part of that evidence.  In the article that is linked, Jackie Stewart himself "rolls out" Germany 1973 and provides testimony that disagrees with LittleChris' assessment.  I'll go with Stewart's version.

 

I respect differing opinions when they are presented politely.

 

1974 should have been Cevert's year to step out of the master's shadow, to become his own man, and to show the world, and himself, what he could do.  Or what he couldn't do. That's a big part of the tragedy for those of us who respected him. 

[LittleChris]

I respect differing opinions when they are presented politely.

Apologies to anyone who felt I was being impolite, I can assure you that it wasn't the intention and clearly I should've phrased things better.

[MCS]

Cevert's death was tragic - nobody could ever deny that.

 

But your post is odd.  How can you possibly find LittleChris' post annoying?  Is it because it isn't what you want to read?  He is being honest.  "Dolph" was born in 1982 it would seem, by the way.

 

As for the comment attributed to Ken Tyrrell in the attached link - "I think the Nurburgring in '73 where he finished second to Jackie and could have won, but chose not to"  is absolute nonsense.  Yes, he could have won, BUT had he overtaken Stewart what would have happened?!!

 

Be realistic, for goodness sake.

 

Edit:  This is in response to Dave's post (43)

 

Please let's keep this tidy.  We need to respect our differing opinions, as you rightly say.

Edited by MCS, 29 February 2016 - 21:38.

[kyle936]

As for the comment attributed to Ken Tyrrell in the attached link - "I think the Nurburgring in '73 where he finished second to Jackie and could have won, but chose not to"  is absolute nonsense.  Yes, he could have won, BUT had he overtaken Stewart what would have happened?!!

 

Be realistic, for goodness sake.

 

Please let's keep this tidy.  We need to respect our differing opinions, as you rightly say.

Just to clear up any misconceptions, from Nigel Roebuck's article 'Model Pupil François Cevert', Motor Sport, November 2013:

 

http://www.motorspor...fran-ois-cevert

 

The last of those Tyrrell one-twos came at the Nürburgring, and years later Tyrrell would suggest that afterwards Stewart told him that, ‘François could have passed me any time he liked…’

“Well,” Jackie says, “I think that perhaps Ken’s memory was… playing tricks on him. François was second to me three times that season, but honestly I don’t think he could have overtaken me – and kept ahead of me. At the Nürburgring, for example, we had a big lead, so I wasn’t by any means going flat out – and if you want to speed up, the Nürburgring’s the place to do it, because you’ve got 147 opportunities a lap!

“I never felt that François was threatening me, but what I did say to Ken was that he was consistently improving, and I felt confident he was the right man to be number one in ’74 – I think he could have won the championship.”

 

I suppose it's like suggesting that Pironi could have beaten Villeneuve at Imola; he did, of course, but only through subterfuge. The difference is, Cevert was a respectful and honorable character, and Pironi evidently wasn't.

 

The thing is, though, not knowing that Stewart intended to retire, Cevert might have felt that being subservient to Stewart, or just being unable to beat him, would be the deal until he did, which is what might have induced him to look elsewhere...

Edited by kyle936, 01 March 2016 - 02:05.

[E1pix]

Fabulous post, Kyle. Welcome.

[Dave Ware]

Well, I certainly don't want to beat to death Germany 1973. I've always believed, based on what I read years ago, that Jackie said afterwards that Cevert was faster and could have passed him. By “faster” I took that to mean that he would pass and stay in front.  A reasonable conclusion. 

 

I'll now put that into a context of “maybe, maybe not, certainly not worth worrying about” in view of the conflicting statements from Jackie Stewart:

 

From Motor Sport in 2013:

 

“Well,” Jackie says, “I think that perhaps Ken’s memory was… playing tricks on him. François was second to me three times that season, but honestly I don’t think he could have overtaken me – and kept ahead of me. At the Nürburgring, for example, we had a big lead, so I wasn’t by any means going flat out – and if you want to speed up, the Nürburgring’s the place to do it, because you’ve got 147 opportunities a lap!

“I never felt that François was threatening me, but what I did say to Ken was that he was consistently improving, and I felt confident he was the right man to be number one in ’74 – I think he could have won the championship.”

 

From Motor Sport 1993:

 

Following the 1973 German Grand Prix (a dominant 1-2 for Tyrrell on the daunting 14-mile Nurburgring circuit), Jackie told Tyrrell that he felt Francois was faster than him that day, and could have passed him any time he wanted.

"That's what I felt," Jackie says. "I felt in my final year that Francois could have beaten me on more than one occasion.

 

LittleChris, my apologies for bring it up. It really wasn't worth mentioning, on my part.

[PeterElleray]

Wasnt the specific race in question the previous Dutch GP, not the German. Isnt this where JYS missed a gear and Cevert refrained from passing him on the run into Tarzan? Supposedly afterwards he asked Francois why he didnt pass, the reply was that he didnt want to beat him in that way, which always struck me as a little odd.

 

Looking back on 1973 i get the impression that Francois was totally 'on it' up until around Monaco, then dropped away a little in absolute performance - or was that Peterson finding his feet at Lotus? - until Holland/Germany. he was quite fast in Austria, not so impressive at Monza and difficult to judge in Canda, although he was the fastest Tyrrell.

 

That said, my understanding is that Francois did have quite a hand in developing the 005/006 series cars, and that Derek Gardner rated him highly. 

[kyle936]

Well, I certainly don't want to beat to death Germany 1973. I've always believed, based on what I read years ago, that Jackie said afterwards that Cevert was faster and could have passed him. By “faster” I took that to mean that he would pass and stay in front.  A reasonable conclusion. 

 

I'll now put that into a context of “maybe, maybe not, certainly not worth worrying about” in view of the conflicting statements from Jackie Stewart:..

I get what you're saying, Dave. I read through most of the articles on Cevert in the Motor Sport archives and it almost seems to depend on how JYS was feeling and who he was talking to. Memories are what the mind chooses to remember.

 

If I'd registered with this forum sooner I'd have started a thread and posted a link to a fairly recent interview on Radio Scotland with Jackie Stewart by the Irish journalist Tom English. It was unrelentingly sombre in its tone - JYS came across as a melancholy soul, although being asked to recollect these times, and given all that he experienced back then, it's no wonder. Unfortunately the interview is no longer available on iPlayer...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b060c3v9

 

...although you never know if it will be repeated, but what also came across was how fond Jackie was of François, as if he wasn't just part of the Tyrrell family but of his own. He was unequivocal about the 'fact' that François would have led the team in 1974, but then it could be that neither truly confided in the other.

 

 

Edit - meant to say - E1pix, thanks for the welcome.

Edited by kyle936, 01 March 2016 - 21:54.