32 replies to this topic

[terry mcgrath]

I have post some photos on my facebook site that we brought from EBAY and would be interested to know the 2 unidentified cars and at what circuit they are racing

 

Facebook.com/jaguararchives/  

 

 

I am imagining it but you can't paste text onto these posts?

Edited by terry mcgrath, 28 February 2016 - 23:49.

[Paul Taylor]

Facebook doesn't like people linking directly to them from other sites.

 

Are these the photos? Could that be at the old hairpin at Donington Park?

 

 

 

[Roy C]

The second photo shows what appears to be a 500, so it may be the 1950s/60s.

Donington closed in 1939. I reckon it's southern hemisphere.

[Vitesse2]

The second photo shows what appears to be a 500, so it may be the 1950s/60s.

Donington closed in 1939. I reckon it's southern hemisphere.

Yes, somewhere in Australia. Late 1940s. These came up on another forum - there was a fourth picture from the same batch, which showed the Sulman Singer, the only car I recognised. If it helps, the Sulman was carrying #8.

[DanTra2858]

If nothing else Terry it appears to be a Clockwise Circuit, hope this helps shorton the list.

[john medley]

Good puzzle.

Pity we are not able to see the "Sulman Singer" pic. I doubt the as yet unseen pic was the Sulman Singer (carrying #8, but the handicap systems of that time would have delivered a higher number to the early-starting Singer)

The strong sunlight, casual spectator marshalling, and tree shapes suggest to me perhaps Africa but perhaps not South Africa, maybe East Africa, maybe Kenya in the 1950s. The strongly British trend in cars adds to this opinion.

I do not think it is Australia. Even Australian spectators would not have been that cavalier with their rubbish -- and after Penrith 1939, spectator control would have been more assertive. The remarkable braking evidence threatening the hirsute spectator to our right tells me they didn't race often there nor were the drivers very experienced

[bill p]

If nothing else Terry it appears to be a Clockwise Circuit, hope this helps shorton the list.

How do you come to this conclusion?

I have been to anti-clockwise circuits that have right hand corners!!

[MCS]

But isn't it "normal" to think clockwise, especially given the long straight visible in the pictures?  Does that not present a sort of logic?

[Vitesse2]

Good puzzle.

Pity we are not able to see the "Sulman Singer" pic. I doubt the as yet unseen pic was the Sulman Singer (carrying #8, but the handicap systems of that time would have delivered a higher number to the early-starting Singer)

The strong sunlight, casual spectator marshalling, and tree shapes suggest to me perhaps Africa but perhaps not South Africa, maybe East Africa, maybe Kenya in the 1950s. The strongly British trend in cars adds to this opinion.

I do not think it is Australia. Even Australian spectators would not have been that cavalier with their rubbish -- and after Penrith 1939, spectator control would have been more assertive. The remarkable braking evidence threatening the hirsute spectator to our right tells me they didn't race often there nor were the drivers very experienced

Is this not the Sulman Singer, then, John?

 

[Doug Nye]

I have a feeling these are from a South African race...Gunner's Circle or Prince George at East London, Lord Howe, one of those...

 

DCN

[Ray Bell]

Too big for the Sulman Singer...

[john medley]

Vitesse2, no, too tall for the Sulman Singer.

The Cooper 500 lookalike car may be misleading us into thinking "1950s", but Doug's suggestion is worth contemplating: could it be PREWAR South Africa? My only supporting "evidence" might be that I saw Boer rugby heads like that ( on the spectator to the right) in my rugby-playing days when we were young and our beards were black.

Anyone have ready access to relevant South African results with matching numbers?

[seldo]

On re-visiting the photos, I've only just noticed that there is a car/cars going the opposite direction in the back-ground to the left.

[raceannouncer2003]

The "500" appears to be offset...for racing on a clockwise oval?  Where would that have happened?

 

Vince H.

[terry mcgrath]

I haven't received the originals of these pics yet from the person we brought them from on EBAY but now seeing the pictures of the cars posted here head on yes there are cars going the opposite way so maybe we are looking at some sort of road course.

thanks for this observation

 

On re-visiting the photos, I've only just noticed that there is a car/cars going the opposite direction in the back-ground to the left.

[terry mcgrath]

there certainly were a few SS100's in South Africa prewar and immediate post war and they were raced I will look at what I have

 

Vitesse2, no, too tall for the Sulman Singer.

The Cooper 500 lookalike car may be misleading us into thinking "1950s", but Doug's suggestion is worth contemplating: could it be PREWAR South Africa? My only supporting "evidence" might be that I saw Boer rugby heads like that ( on the spectator to the right) in my rugby-playing days when we were young and our beards were black.

Anyone have ready access to relevant South African results with matching numbers?

[terry mcgrath]

I think I have seen every pic of an SS100 racing in Australia and pics from every circuit and I am sure its not Australia and now it has been pointed out that there are cars heading in the opposite direction adjacent to the cars heading towards us it is definitely not Australia and its not NZ. I am sure if it was a UK circuit it would have been quickly picked up on and at one point I had thought Donnington. I don't believe it will be Kenya so Doug's suggestion as to South Africa I think will be the most likely final result.

 

Yes, somewhere in Australia. Late 1940s. These came up on another forum - there was a fourth picture from the same batch, which showed the Sulman Singer, the only car I recognised. If it helps, the Sulman was carrying #8.

[GMACKIE]

Could it be Mount Druitt, maybe ?

[raceannouncer2003]

According to this link the parallel parts seem to going the other way...unless they had a clockwise race at some point:

 

http://aussieroadrac...p1mtdruitt.html

 

Vince H.

[john medley]

Not Mt Druitt. Vince is right: hairpin at end of Mt D straight turned left not right. Also, Mt D airstrip was flat

[GMACKIE]

There was a right-hand corner at the end of Farm Straight.

[GMACKIE]

These photos are worth a look, in any case :-

 

http://aussieroadrac...m/MaxStahl.html

[Darren Galpin]

I was wondering about Kumalo, which was in Rhodesia at the time?

[john medley]

The map of Kumalo looks promising, with a reverse right-turning hairpin at the airstrip's end, although no elevation change information is available.

Hunting through Kumalo and other Rhodesian car racing info, I believe I have found a pic of that perhaps-offset 500 lookalike. Also, I found a Peter Wood racing a Jaguar XK120.

Back to you and your records, Terry?

[funformula]

All drivers are wearing helmets, therefore I suggest the photographs were taken post-war.

Wearing helmets wasn´t so common in the 30´s

[terry mcgrath]

john thanks for the note on the Wood XK120 I have several photos but would dearly love to know the chassis number

 

 

The map of Kumalo looks promising, with a reverse right-turning hairpin at the airstrip's end, although no elevation change information is available.

Hunting through Kumalo and other Rhodesian car racing info, I believe I have found a pic of that perhaps-offset 500 lookalike. Also, I found a Peter Wood racing a Jaguar XK120.

Back to you and your records, Terry?

[john medley]

What I was implying was that if you locate Wood's XK120 events, cross reference the SS100 pictured, and further cross reference the other cars first pictured, you may well have the answers to your questions

[Kvadrat]

New picture:

 

 

[seldo]

I was just watching the WSB (Superbikes) on TV and they had an angle taken from the bottom of the hill at Donnington Park. I thought "Bingo" ! The penny dropped -  I've never been to Donnington but I'm sure it was these photos. There's now a dividing fence up the middle, but, same, same.

[Vitesse2]

Definitely not Donington Park - for several reasons. Firstly, even if it was it would have to be the pre-WW2 layout, going down towards Melbourne Hairpin. Secondly, the crowds at Donington Park were behind wooden fences and sometimes protective banks, ten to twenty yards from the track. Thirdly, the crowd areas at Donington were all around the perimeter, not on the infield - at Melbourne the only people allowed on the narrow area between the parallel straights were officials and photographers.

 

Donington GP, 1937, looking up the hill from Melbourne:

 

[seldo]

Oh well...

[D-Type]

Good puzzle.

Pity we are not able to see the "Sulman Singer" pic. I doubt the as yet unseen pic was the Sulman Singer (carrying #8, but the handicap systems of that time would have delivered a higher number to the early-starting Singer)

The strong sunlight, casual spectator marshalling, and tree shapes suggest to me perhaps Africa but perhaps not South Africa, maybe East Africa, maybe Kenya in the 1950s. The strongly British trend in cars adds to this opinion.

I do not think it is Australia. Even Australian spectators would not have been that cavalier with their rubbish -- and after Penrith 1939, spectator control would have been more assertive. The remarkable braking evidence threatening the hirsute spectator to our right tells me they didn't race often there nor were the drivers very experienced

 
I obviously missed this first time around.  I can confirm it is not one of the Kenya tracks: Langalanga, Nakuru or Embakasi as the road is too wide and the edges too well defined.  There were no race circuits in Tanganyika or Uganda

Edited by D-Type, 31 May 2016 - 17:46.

[Kenzclass]

The two-story, three- chimney house (?) seen in the background in quite a few of the photos ought to ring a bell with someone. At the very least, its architectural style  probably rules out any Australian location

Also, the width of the circuit, what appears to be a formed edge/upstand on the tarmac on both sides, the lack of mature trees, overhead wires and poles, and the "down and back" layout suggest to me that the circuit was previously a WW2 airfield.