35 replies to this topic

[Charlieman]

Over the weekend, I heard on Radio 4 that an F1 car was tested on a UK motorway. The alleged purpose was to test whether concrete surfaces were sufficient.

 

It sounds like cobblers to me -- given the number of F1 designers -- that there could ever have been a definitive F1 car when motorways were built.

[Tim Murray]

I heard that item too. They seemed to be suggesting that the F1 car was used because its (electronic?) data-logging system could record exactly how the car was behaving on the surface being tested, and this data could then be analysed. Absolute bollocks.

[Charlieman]

 

They seemed to be suggesting that the F1 car was used because its (electronic?) data-logging system could record exactly how the car was behaving on the surface being tested, and this data could then be analysed.

Thanks, Tim, for showing that I was not hearing things.

[Odseybod]

Heard it too, I think on 'Saturday Live' in the vaguely interesting piece about motorway service stations in their early years. As usual, I wasn't listening all that diligently but I think they were suggesting the F1 car was used to 'check the smoothness of the road surface' or summat like that. One of those dangerous throwaway lines that in time becomes accepted wisdom - or maybe it already is?

[D-Type]

There is the well-known occasion when Colin Chapman lent Denis Jenkinson a Formula 2 Lotus for a totally illegal "jaunt" on open roads on Christmas Day 1957.  Then there was the time they tested an AC Cobra Coupe up the M1 prior to Le Mans at about 140mph.  As there was no speed limit at the time this one was legal.  But using a F1 car to test the smoothness of a motorway - absolute poppycock.  The DoT have a truck-mounted machine that does that anyway.

Edited by D-Type, 07 March 2016 - 21:33.

[Doug Nye]

I fear this kind of cobblers is what one half expects to issue from the BBC today.  What a sad shadow it has become of its former towering standard.

 

I'd prefer my licence fee to be supporting proper standards, rather than multiple layers of grossly over-rewarded 'management'.  Grrrrr...

 

DCN

[kayemod]

I'd prefer my licence fee to be supporting proper standards, rather than multiple layers of grossly over-rewarded 'management'.  Grrrrr...

 

DCN

 

...and Claire bloody Balding!

[Charlieman]

I fear this kind of cobblers is what one half expects to issue from the BBC today.  What a sad shadow it has become of its former towering standard.

 

I'd prefer my licence fee to be supporting proper standards, rather than multiple layers of grossly over-rewarded 'management'.  Grrrrr...

 

DCN

 

I think, Doug, there is a potential load of waffle everywhere. At the same time, I suspect "waffle everywhere" delivered the great story about Captain Brown on the Beeb.

[Tim Murray]

I think it's possibly unfair to criticise the BBC over this particular nonsense. As Odseybod has reminded me, it came up on the Radio 4 programme Saturday Live, which is a loose-format magazine programme concentrating on fluffy human interest stories usually of a quirky or heartwarming nature.

One of the guests on the show last Saturday was a man called Henry Iddon, who has recently completed a stint as 'artist in residence' at Forton services on the M6.

http://www.henryiddo.../Forton-Stories

In amongst the ensuing discussion relating to motorway services was this very brief mention of an F1 car being used to test motorway surfaces. I suspect Iddon knows as much about racing cars as I do about bog snorkelling.

Edited by Tim Murray, 08 March 2016 - 06:51.

[Vitesse2]

Tim's mention of Forton triggered a memory. Somewhere near there on that long flog up through Lancashire ISTR there was an experimental concrete surface on a short section of the northbound M6. Late 1960s? It turned out to be excessively noisy - so much so that there were warning notices for drivers about unusual road noise - and was, I think, replaced quite quickly.

[Geoff Smedley]

I can lay claim to testing a Brabham F1 on the Bukit Timah main highway in Singapore in 1968, but telemetry in the 1950s wasn't in vogue.

[Lee Nicolle]

I can lay claim to testing a Brabham F1 on the Bukit Timah main highway in Singapore in 1968, but telemetry in the 1950s wasn't in vogue.

You had seat of pants telemetry, that would have told you all you needed to know.

I suspect motorsport would be better without most of the electronics, defenitly a lot richer!

[Allan Lupton]

Tim's mention of Forton triggered a memory. Somewhere near there on that long flog up through Lancashire ISTR there was an experimental concrete surface on a short section of the northbound M6. Late 1960s? It turned out to be excessively noisy - so much so that there were warning notices for drivers about unusual road noise - and was, I think, replaced quite quickly.

As originally built in 1959, the southermost section of the M1 was concrete and when using it late on a misty night, it sounded just like a noisy rear axle about to pack up.

The change to tarmac was at Luton and members of Luton Flying Club who were lost could use it as a nav-aid: e.g. if you were East of Luton you headed due West and if, when you saw the M1 it was grey you turned right and if black, left until you could see Luton aerodrome.

[Perruqueporte]

There is the well-known occasion when Colin Chapman lent Denis Jenkinson a Formula 2 Lotus for a totally illegal "jaunt" on open roads on Christmas Day 1957.  Then there was the time they tested an AC Cobra Coupe up the M1 prior to Le Mans at about 140mph.  As there was no speed limit at the time this one was legal.  But using a F1 car to test the smoothness of a motorway - absolute poppycock.  The DoT have a truck-mounted machine that does that anyway.

 

I wish the DoT or the Highways Agency would make more and better use of such a surface-testing machine, to improve some of the road surfaces we suffer.

 

Christopher W.

[Stephen W]

Jaguar C, D and E Types were all tested on motorways &/or dual carriageways.

 

Several F1 cars were run on UK roads in the 1950s when the 'works' teams attending the various Aintree GPs were housed off-site at main dealer garages and driven to & from the circuit each day by mechanics. A fair bit of this was on dual carriageways.

[john winfield]

..and Raymond Mays made good use of the A1 in his triangular 'round' trip.

[bradbury west]

Not wishing to be a pedant, but I always understood the AC Cobra Coupe was driven at 185 mph on M1, hence the fuss about it. I recall the articles about it which I have seen in various magazines have always mentioned that speed. I believe Mr Sears has confirmed it from rev counter readings. I imagine a speed of only 140 mph would have been of little use. I believe we have a TNFer who was a part of the operation that day. Elsewhere ISTR a shot of a Ferrari? F1 car on a US highway en route to a race meeting around 1959/60, possibly Sebring.
Roger Lund

[Tim Murray]

Might it be this one, Roger? Trintignant driving his Centro Sud Cooper to Riverside in 1960, complete with woolly hat:

https://s-media-cach...1d94b5ca3a2.jpg

Edited by Tim Murray, 08 March 2016 - 17:07.

[kayemod]

A few years later than the 50s, but Tom Wheatcroft drove an F1 car, the ex-Moss Monaco-winning Lotus 18 from the Donington Museum to one of his Company's building sites, it had just been delivered he saw it sitting there, and couldn't resist the temptation. He only did that once though, a policeman stopped him, and Tom was starting to think he'd get away with it, when the plod burned himself quite badly on the exposed exhaust, after which things got a bit more serious. What a stylish way to arrive at work though, good old Tom.

[D-Type]

Not wishing to be a pedant, but I always understood the AC Cobra Coupe was driven at 185 mph on M1, hence the fuss about it. I recall the articles about it which I have seen in various magazines have always mentioned that speed. I believe Mr Sears has confirmed it from rev counter readings. I imagine a speed of only 140 mph would have been of little use. I believe we have a TNFer who was a part of the operation that day. Elsewhere ISTR a shot of a Ferrari? F1 car on a US highway en route to a race meeting around 1959/60, possibly Sebring.
Roger Lund

Sorry, the 140 mph figure was from memory. 

[Roger Clark]

Denis Jenkinson wrote: "While the law in England strictly forbids driving a racing vehicle on the road unless it complies with the Road Traffic Acts, and no Grand Prix car can do that, this does not mean that F1 cars are never seen on English highways.  While it would be tactless to say what has been seen there is a splendid piece of double-track road outside the Vanwall factory, and down Surbiton way the police are very forgiving, while the new Lotus factory being on an Industrial Estate is a great help to Grand Prix racing."

[Vitesse2]

"... down Surbiton way the police are very forgiving ..."

 

Appears to be on a trade plate.

[Odseybod]

Meanwhile in Silverstone village in July 1954 ...

 

 

 

[Tim Murray]

Ah, the good old Royal Oak. No longer there, sadly - demolished by Silverstone Circuits Ltd (who owned it) in 2009 to save on rates, I gather.

[bradbury west]

That is the one, Tim. Many thanks? I recall the mountain in the rear ground so knew it was not Sebring.
RL

[312f1]

Denis Jenkinson wrote: "While the law in England strictly forbids driving a racing vehicle on the road unless it complies with the Road Traffic Acts, and no Grand Prix car can do that, this does not mean that F1 cars are never seen on English highways.  While it would be tactless to say what has been seen there is a splendid piece of double-track road outside the Vanwall factory, and down Surbiton way the police are very forgiving, while the new Lotus factory being on an Industrial Estate is a great help to Grand Prix racing."

 

...."While it would be tactless to say what has been seen...."  different era, different mentalities. Nowadays, everybody in the know would compete as to who will be the first to break such news. ..

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Geoff Smedley
I can lay claim to testing a Brabham F1 on the Bukit Timah main highway in Singapore in 1968, but telemetry in the 1950s wasn't in vogue.

I'm sure you'd also recall some times in Tassie, Geoff...

I recall reading that one time Jack Brabham drove out to Longford from Launceston.


.

Edited by Ray Bell, 08 March 2016 - 21:30.

[P.Dron]

Just to put all previous numbers in the shade: Chris Craft, de Cadenet-Lola T380, M4, 1976, approximately 209mph. The car finished third at Le Mans.

[kayemod]

...."While it would be tactless to say what has been seen...."  different era, different mentalities. Nowadays, everybody in the know would compete as to who will be the first to break such news. ..

 

And we all know how the news would be spread, almost everyone who witnessed what happened would be holding up their phone, anxious to be the first to get their name and a photo, or even better a "selfie" as I believe they are called, off to one of the national newspapers.

 

 

What unpermissive times we live in today.

[Odseybod]

Don't wish to sound like a grump (well, OK, maybe just a bit) but I'm coming to the conclusion that things haven't officially happened or really been visited unless people have a selfie of themselves in front of it. The poppies at the Tower of London and Ground Zero in NYC (surprisingly moving to this out-of-towner) are cases in point.  Interesting cars at the Goodwood FoS also seem to be in that category ("I haven't really seen it unless I have a pic of me actually seeing it."). Funny old world.

[Dipster]

Tim's mention of Forton triggered a memory. Somewhere near there on that long flog up through Lancashire ISTR there was an experimental concrete surface on a short section of the northbound M6. Late 1960s? It turned out to be excessively noisy - so much so that there were warning notices for drivers about unusual road noise - and was, I think, replaced quite quickly.

I remember test surfaces on motorways in the early 70s. I used to pound the UK motorways a lot at that time so I cannot recall which one they were on but I think it was in the South. the test sections were signposted to warn of the noise.

 

I have never heard of an F1 car on a motorway but do remember the screaming newspaper headlines after the AC Cobra test. I think my generation had a magic youthful period on the roads!

[Sharman]

Not wishing to be a pedant, but I always understood the AC Cobra Coupe was driven at 185 mph on M1, hence the fuss about it. I recall the articles about it which I have seen in various magazines have always mentioned that speed. I believe Mr Sears has confirmed it from rev counter readings. I imagine a speed of only 140 mph would have been of little use. I believe we have a TNFer who was a part of the operation that day. Elsewhere ISTR a shot of a Ferrari? F1 car on a US highway en route to a race meeting around 1959/60, possibly Sebring.
Roger Lund

You beat me to it Roger, I was there and travelled in the one of the cars (not the Coupe) as my landlord was Peter Bolton who took me to the tests. 185 as you say not 140.

Edited by Sharman, 09 March 2016 - 08:34.

[FrankB]

Going back to the original post - could the speaker have been use the term "Formula One Car" very loosely? Is it possible that a high performance car, possibly in racing rather than road trim, but not Formula One was used as described.

[MCS]

Just to put all previous numbers in the shade: Chris Craft, de Cadenet-Lola T380, M4, 1976, approximately 209mph. The car finished third at Le Mans.

 

Wow.  Which part of the M4?

 

Also, John Miles (he of Gold Leaf Team Lotus fame) mentioned somewhere - relatively recently, I think - that there were several high-speed tests performed on the wondrous M45 once upon a time.

[AJCee]

There was another type of rather high-performance Jaguar on a UK motorway in the 1970s... (albeit not yet open to the public) http://www.thunder-a...uar/history.php

[kyle936]

Just to put all previous numbers in the shade: Chris Craft, de Cadenet-Lola T380, M4, 1976, approximately 209mph. The car finished third at Le Mans.

 

Wow.  Which part of the M4?

I've always remembered it as being the de Cadenet-Lola in 1976, as Peter wrote, but as Chris Craft told the scurrilous tale in 'Lunch with... Keith Greene and Chris Craft' in Motor Sport it was 1973, in which case it would have been the Duckhams LM, revised with a long tail since its heroic first run at Le Mans in '72 (maybe they did it more than once!). Either way it's a good story...

"We couldn't get the straight-line speed out of the car and I said to Alain, 'We're wasting our time. I'm not going back if we can't get more than 205mph.' So various mods were made, which we needed to try. We decided to run it down the M4 at night, but the headlights weren't fitted at this point, so we had to wait until dawn was breaking. We unloaded the car on the roundabout over Junction 16, and sent the van 13 miles down to Junction 17. Then off I went. I pulled 7200rpm, which I knew was 213mph, so that was all right. I peeled off at Junction 17, the van was waiting on the roundabout, and we stuffed the car in quick and went back to London. Unfortunately at full chat I'd had to go between two lorries, one was pulling out to pass the other and I couldn't lift off. So it got reported to the police. But we never heard anything more."

http://www.motorspor...ene-chris-craft