2489 replies to this topic

[Petroltorque]

Was Ecclestone and Todt's capitulation actually a brilliant masterstroke of political manoeuvring?

No it wasn't. To put it mildly. Todt is an ambitious politician and Ecclestone is a fool. A rich fool but still a fool. He comes out with so much nonsense every time he utters forth. It can't be loss on the owners of F1 that he is no longer good for their business. The teams, who produce their product, are now united. Marchione represents a clear and present danger to any potential sale or IPO. I have yet to hear anything from Ecclestone that he is willing to upset Fiat Spa.
In response to the quoted article; It seems unlikely that Ecclestone could escape from any EU investigation unsullied. The lack of transparency of the governance. His propensity to throw money at parties in order to obtain a favourable outcome, his presence on the rule making strategy group could all be deemed as a conflict of interest and exclude him from any future negotiations.

Edited by Petroltorque, 09 April 2016 - 17:18.

[Clatter]

What can I tell you. It was a Toyota aero guy, make of that what you will.

Ive heard the same said when I did a tour of the Williams museum. I really don't believe the wake is by design rather than a by-product.

[BalanceUT]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, how about this?

 

Split drivers into three groups of 7.

 

Q1 for group 1 (20 mins)

Q2 for group 2 (20 mins)

Q3 for group 3 (20 mins)

 

Advantages: Could mix up the grid, drivers would be flat out as they only have 20 minutes. Lack of tyres would not be a factor

 

Disadvantages: Track evolution may favour group 3, pole may be achieved by a driver in group 1 meaning we didn't see the 'pole' lap

 

Could maybe be enhanced to make the fastest driver from group 1,2 and 3 go into a 2lap pole shoot-out?

 

thoughts?

I could live with this. 

[Kucki]

And what if Mercedes win the Saturday races?    

 

Then we race on Fridays also!
 

[ExFlagMan]

I assume that all those who think reverse grid Saturday races will be fantastic are also great advocates of DRS - cos that is what you will effectively be watching - the only difference being that with the fastest cars at the back the 'overtakes' will be even easier.

[LeClerc]

1 hour session, as many tires as you want, PUs used in Q is not part of your allotment, fastest lap is pole.

 

See how easy that is?

 

If there is not enough people buying tickets for Saturday, then maybe your support series are the problem.....

 

Edit: I probably should point out that for once I'm serious, not looking for laughs.

Edited by LeClerc, 09 April 2016 - 20:50.

[RedOne]

1 hour session, as many tires as you want, PUs used in Q is not part of your allotment, fastest lap is pole.

See how easy that is?

If there is not enough people buying tickets for Saturday, then maybe your support series are the problem.....

Edit: I probably should point out that for once I'm serious, not looking for laughs.

Easy enough if someone personally paid for all those extra engines which leads us back to the point Vettel was making, are these engines just too expensive to have proper races or qaulifying?

[LeClerc]

I wouldn't mind cheap engines, not at all.

[Marklar]

Autosport @autosport
Last FIA hurdle cleared, so #F1's return to old qualifying format has official green light: https://t.co/pg8lkJZ3Vy

Edited by Marklar, 11 April 2016 - 15:00.

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

Thank flip for that. About sodding time! Finally common sense has truly prevailed and the lunatics running the asylum have taken a small sensible pill.

[johnmhinds]

Autosport @autosport
Last FIA hurdle cleared, so #F1's return to old qualifying format has official green light: https://t.co/pg8lkJZ3Vy

 

Yay!?!?! They unbroke the thing that wasn't broken...

 

 

So did they use any of these meetings to discuss any of the real issues with the sport? No? Well great...

[Marklar]

E-vote? No fax? What?

With those bodies being asked via e-vote for their support last week, formal approval has now been given and F1 will revert to the three session system that has been in use for the last few years.

http://www.motorspor...-change-686374/

FIA officialy confirmes

Edited by Marklar, 11 April 2016 - 15:33.

[sportyskells]

now that means Channel 4 happy, us happy, teams happy and also means no more knock out

[Clatter]

now that means Channel 4 happy, us happy, teams happy and also means no more knock out

No more knockout? What Q system do you think they are returning to?

[Rob]

Ive heard the same said when I did a tour of the Williams museum. I really don't believe the wake is by design rather than a by-product.

 

You'll never have a really clean wake with the sort of designs that are in use, but there are still a lot of subtle things that can be done to massively screw with the wake region. 

[Clatter]

You'll never have a really clean wake with the sort of designs that are in use, but there are still a lot of subtle things that can be done to massively screw with the wake region.

I'm just not convinced. On wet days when you can see the wake quite nicely there is nothing that stands out as anything but the consequence of wings creating downforce.

[Jon83]

It's FINALLY changed back to what most of us want and there are still piles of ridiculous and complicated ideas being banded about this discussion.

 

WHY? 

 

Its more mumbo jumbo Mike.

[pdac]

E-vote? No fax? What?

http://www.motorspor...-change-686374/

FIA officialy confirmes

 

It's the FIA catching up with the new language people use these days. They've discovered that the hip new thing is to prefix electronic communications with 'e' and they've realised that they have to plug the fax machine in and switch it on, so it must be electronic.

[Marklar]

Adam Cooper ‏@adamcooperF1  2m2 minutes ago

The FIA has republished the 2016 F1 Sporting Regulations with the old style qualifying format reinstated exactly as it was

 

 

[sopa]

Actually I wanted to talk about one thing, which has got a bit lost in the whole mess.

 

Everyone has been concentrating on the three main pillars of power play - FIA (Todt), Bernie and teams. But who have gone unnoticed, are the background players, i.e sponsors and TV companies. In one interview Bernie mentioned that he has pressure from TV companies to do something about the format of F1. The viewing figures are dwindling, and Bernie knows fully well that if TV companies pull out of broadcasting and giving F1 the visibility, then... this is basically the end of F1.

 

This also somewhat explains Bernie's ideas, if we consider the world he lives in, and who are his clients. For serious F1 fans his ideas are insane - reverse grids, sprint races, wtf?! But TV companies (and i.e trackside sponsors) probably could care less about purity of the sport. They probably believe that you just have to create action and entertainment to get viewers. And doesn't matter, how you do it.

 

Anyway... Bottom line is... As viewing figures continue to dwindle, there is going to be more heat from the background players to do something about it. This qualifying mess for now has ended, but this is probably only temporary peace. So we have to wait for the next stage of contention. Is it going to be qualifying again, some other part of the race weekend, who knows?!

[Ruusperi]

But TV companies (and i.e trackside sponsors) probably could care less about purity of the sport. They probably believe that you just have to create action and entertainment to get viewers. And doesn't matter, how you do it.

 

They key factor in that sentence is "they probably believe". In other words, they have no idea whatsoever whether the reverse grids or sprint races bring more viewers or in fact alienate the old fans. With the qualifying they took a gamble and failed miserably. I think they will think twice before proposing other gimmicks. If they want new fans, gimmicks aren't a solution. F1 only needs to find the basic elements it still had 10-15 years ago, those things that made watching an F1 car magical and awe-inspiring.

[johnmhinds]

Most of the viewing figure drop off isn't because of the F1 "show" changing, it's because of pay TV deals that have started to hide the races from fans.

The track attendances aren't down because the show is any different, they're down because the track fees are too high and that made ticket prices skyrocket so guys can't afford to take their families anymore.

Teams sponsorship money isn't down because the racing changed, it's down because of the drop in viewers.

The owners got greedy and took all that short term money and as everyone predicted the fan base is shrinking because we have less cheap access to the sport.

Fiddling around with qualifying won't fix any of those issues because the people they're trying to attract back just can't watch the sport.

Edited by johnmhinds, 14 April 2016 - 12:22.

[Stephane]

Ok for the television, but as an example, prices for the belgian gp have not changed much for 15 years now.

[Kristian]

F1 only needs to find the basic elements it still had 10-15 years ago, those things that made watching an F1 car magical and awe-inspiring.

The thing is, 15 years ago we were having the same debates - ferrari were dominating and everyone was crying out for change. Remember mad max's driver swapping idea?

And everyone was saying get the cars back to the late 80s / early 90s. Now we are saying take them back to the early 00s.

I guarantee that in 15 years time on this forum people will be lamenting the days we had the post 2014 v6 turbos and maybe even the Pirelli tyres.

Edited by Kristian, 14 April 2016 - 08:59.

[pdac]

The thing is, 15 years ago we were having the same debates - ferrari were dominating and everyone was crying out for change. Remember mad max's driver swapping idea?

And everyone was saying get the cars back to the late 80s / early 90s. Now we are saying take them back to the early 00s.

I guarantee that in 15 years time on this forum people the one person that still follows F1 will be lamenting the days we had the post 2014 v6 turbos and maybe even the Pirelli tyres.

 

Fixed

[Kristian]

Fixed

 

Wow, Bernie will be doing well for 100! 

[Razoola]

Some of you may remember earlier in this thread I mentioned I had wrote a letter to FOM directly over the qualification situation. Today I received a reply from the man himself. It just shows you the power of putting pen to paper sometimes if you do it in a proper way.

[Marklar]

Some of you may remember earlier in this thread I mentioned I had wrote a letter to FOM directly over the qualification situation. Today I received a reply from the man himself. It just shows you the power of putting pen to paper sometimes if you do it in a proper way.

And what he answered?

[Stephane]

[Kristian]

Some of you may remember earlier in this thread I mentioned I had wrote a letter to FOM directly over the qualification situation. Today I received a reply from the man himself. It just shows you the power of putting pen to paper sometimes if you do it in a proper way.

 Go on, you can't say that and not post a scan! 

[Razoola]

I did not ask for a responce and his letter is an acknoledgement he read it and took the contents on board. Its just not the right thing to do to share the contents but I will post a picture shortly.

Edited by Razoola, 21 April 2016 - 19:08.

[Razoola]

[Eff One 2002]

Informative.

[Marklar]

Why I feel that this could end bad?

 

http://www.auto-moto...ampaign=Formel1

 

The Chinese GP proved that the 2015 system is extremely beneffiting Mercedes as they are the only team which is fast enough to use the tyres from the medium range (in China this was the soft tyre), which is this year more important due to the new tyre rules. Todt says now: "Maybe the teams will find out one day that the tweaked version (Q1/Q2 elimination, Q3 in 2015 system) was perhaps the better solution"

[Ruusperi]

I don't remember anyone complaining after the Chinese qualifying, and in contrast, nothing but complaining during Australia and Bahrain qualifying. So, beat it, Jean. Mercedes deserves the domination.

[ANF]

Why I feel that this could end bad?
 
http://www.auto-moto...ampaign=Formel1
 
The Chinese GP proved that the 2015 system is extremely beneffiting Mercedes as they are the only team which is fast enough to use the tyres from the medium range (in China this was the soft tyre), which is this year more important due to the new tyre rules. Todt says now: "Maybe the teams will find out one day that the tweaked version (Q1/Q2 elimination, Q3 in 2015 system) was perhaps the better solution"

I don't see how running the "tweaked version" would have made Mercedes any slower on the medium tyre in China?

[Marklar]

I don't see how running the "tweaked version" would have made Mercedes any slower on the medium tyre in China?

The theory is that the elimination system would force Mercedes to use the softest tyres straight away in Q2 (too risky otherwise as they dont have a lot time), while in the normal system they have 15 minutes time. So they can easily try the medium tyre first and if it wont work they can stil switch back to softest tyres.

 

There is some truth in that IMO. But I can't see any problem tbh. Mercedes will probably just do that on circuits with an very high tyre deg, simply because harder tyres are an disadvantage at the start.

 

The easiest solution for this 'problem' would be to scrap the 'start on Q2 tyres' rule, but they will never get this.

[TheRacingElf]

I've sent him an email some time ago to show my discontent with where the sport is going and got a very polite respons from him too. I think you're running into the same problem I faced when I got an answer from him, there is a bold typed line at the bottom saying that it's confidential and that you're not allowed to share the content of the letter to anybody. If it weren't Bernie and FOM I would happily share the content of the letter on this forum but for some reason I just won't dare to take the risk 

[KnucklesAgain]

I've sent him an email some time ago to show my discontent with where the sport is going and got a very polite respons from him too. I think you're running into the same problem I faced when I got an answer from him, there is a bold typed line at the bottom saying that it's confidential and that you're not allowed to share the content of the letter to anybody. If it weren't Bernie and FOM I would happily share the content of the letter on this forum but for some reason I just won't dare to take the risk 

 

We'd need a lawyer to chime in (and you should definitely talk to one before sharing the content!), but it would surprise me if this had any legal effect. I mean, can I really send an unsolicited letter to you where I am sharing certain opinions, and bar you from talking about them although you never agreed to anything before I sent the letter?

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 23 April 2016 - 21:40.

[EvilPhil II]

Is this a competition? Is it a sport?  If so then there will be winners and losers.