145 replies to this topic

[DutchQuicksilver]

 

This one is still missing I see. The two drivers from the new Haas team. Can Grosjean lead this team to glory and can Gutierrez restore his reputation and still become a decent F1 driver?

 

I expect Grosjean to beat Gutierrez with ease, but I don't see Gutierrez dropping the ball like he did against Hulkenberg in his debut year. Perhaps a year at Ferrari was what he needed, it certainly helped Massa all those years ago.

[InSearchOfThe]

This could get close as the season progresses. Experience tells us that Grosjean should be ahead. But Gutierrez seems to have matured as a Ferrari 3rd driver.

I see Haas holding the vs battle off until the team get it's program running on a consistent basis. If they're ahead of Manor at the 2/3 point then Steiner might let the drivers scrap each other. Both have a lot to prove. I think Haas will also have a more open approach to team orders. To hear some of Romains comments the team seems very open and honest.

GRO  and GUT will come together as solid teammates. They both need a strong showing tomorrow to relieve some pressure and build confidence.  I am wondering though, how much of Nascar mentality will or won't work in F1?  Both good and bad.

[Lord_Shaitan]

Official results in Oz are pretty deceptive as RoGro beat Guti by 1.3s in qual and outscored Mexican 8-0.

 

To be fair Esteban was a bit quicker than Romain on his hot lap (after first two sectors) on Saturday but mistake on the pit wall led them to being eliminated before they could finish their hot laps. During the race Esteban has reported some issues with the engine which cost him around 11s to Romain on the first 2 laps. That loss has been reduced to just 2s in 5 laps period! Of course he had some free air and was a bit harder for his tyres but all that just show he was on the pace this weekend.

 

We need more time to judge if Gutierrez really has raised his level and is capable of delivering some points finishes but what I saw in Melbourne is that he was competitive taking Grosjean as a reference point.

[messy]

Gutierrez has real pace hidden deep in there somewhere. He showed that at times in 2013 (thinking Spain, Japan) but seemed unable to unlock it for a full flying lap, let alone a race distance aside from the odd time. I really think this weekend he looked better and was closer to showing what he could do - maybe that year at Ferrari has done him good in that regard - but was pretty unlucky. Especially in qualifying. He needs to be able to bounce back from it and not just fall asleep like he seemed to in his second year at Sauber.

Edited by messy, 21 March 2016 - 13:59.

[Myrvold]

 

Official results in Oz are pretty deceptive as RoGro beat Guti by 1.3s in qual and outscored Mexican 8-0.

 

To be fair Esteban was a bit quicker than Romain on his hot lap (after first two sectors) on Saturday but mistake on the pit wall led them to being eliminated before they could finish their hot laps. 

Yup, Gutierrez put in a time that was 4th fastest at the time - and would've been 7th fastest in Q1. But a tad to late.

I think it's quite hard to read anything out of Q1 Australia.

[Disgrace]

Was Gutierrez showing any promise before he retired?

[Seanspeed]

Was Gutierrez showing any promise before he retired?

Yea, he wasn't doing too bad at all.  

[Lord_Shaitan]

Was Gutierrez showing any promise before he retired?

Something about 2s to Grosjean before pit stop when sth wrong has happen. I believe he would end up in points today. 

 

So far he has a lot of bad luck but is very competitive what is surprising me a lot.

[kvyatfan]

What was the Gutierrez issue? Energy?

[PlatenGlass]

What was the Gutierrez issue? Energy?

Yeah, just general listlessness.

[LiftAndCoast]

I wouldn't be surprised if Gutierrez had a decent season with Haas.

It's not as though the guy is without talent, or failed to win in the lower categories.

He just came to F1 a bit early IMHO, and had to compete in his 2013 rookie season against the very talented Hulk. The 2014 Sauber was an absolute dog of a car, I doubt that many drivers on the grid could have scored points in that thing.

He may well be a much more mature and improved driver, and while I don't expect him to out drive Grosjean, a decent season could lie ahead, reliability permitting.

[MikeV1987]

Lucky

 

http://www.f1fanatic...grosjeans-race/

 

 

Team principal Guenther Steiner praised the mechanics who changed Grosjean’s left-rear wheel for replacing a nut which had not attached successfully. Had he not done so, the loose nut would have forced the team to retire the car.

“In the third [pit stop] we had an issue with one of the wheel nuts,” Steiner explained. “I give credit to the crew member because when he went to put the wheel on, he realised something was wrong and took it off again.”

“Had he not fixed it, the car probably would have been stopped after the first two corners from the wheel being loose. So we had an issue, but we solved it and maybe lost two seconds and it didn’t make a difference anyway. The mechanic and his actions stopped us from making an even bigger mistake.”

[Disgrace]

I watched Bahrain a second time and Gutierrez really was as good as you guys suggested. It was probably the best performance in his career thus far.

[MikeV1987]

I think he'll surprise many people this season, he wasn't far off of Grosjean's Q1 & Q2 time. His laps during the race weren't bad either, he was consistent up until his retirement.

Edited by MikeV1987, 11 April 2016 - 15:26.

[BalanceUT]

What was Gutierrez's position at the point of the crash in Australia and his retirement in Bahrain? 

[loki]

If they can keep a car under him and keep people from running into him Steve should have a pretty good year.  From the looks of it, at least on short runs at this point he's racey with Big John.  He seems confident and aggressive enough so it should be pretty entertaining.

Edited by loki, 12 April 2016 - 05:00.

[messy]

Gutierrez has done well so far, but (again) needs to string it together. I know neither retirement so far has been his fault but this is a driver who really needs to stop retiring and start putting a few points on the board. I really thought Haas should have hired Vergne instead, but really want Gutierrez to show what he can do because there is a good driver in there. Ferrari obviously know that. 

[DESCHAIN]

Or Gutierrez had a hell of a the development while at Ferrari, or Grosjean is not that good and the Haas is a beast. 

 

Romain is a very good driver IMO, but Gutierrez didn't show much against Hulk.

[Bleu]

What was Gutierrez's position at the point of the crash in Australia and his retirement in Bahrain? 

 

In Australia, Guti was 12th (RG 10th) while neither had made a pit stop. In Bahrain he was just behind RG when he pitted, then retired to the pits a lap after that.

[BalanceUT]

In Australia, Guti was 12th (RG 10th) while neither had made a pit stop. In Bahrain he was just behind RG when he pitted, then retired to the pits a lap after that.

Thanks!

[Lord_Shaitan]

Today only 0,3s to Romain. I'd say not that bad as he barely had any dry running. He's really doing well so far. I read some posts that he's a shame, he shouldn

t be there and should leave, etc.. I mean WTF? At least give him a fair chance, a clean weekend. There's absolutely no clue so far that he's underperforming.

[Marklar]

Really not fair what Gutierrez has to say

http://www.motorspor...ery-bad-736141/

[jonpollak]

He sounds like Smoke.

Jp

[Graveltrappen]

He's not holding back is he... He should be thankful he's on the grid at all.

Blaming the car... And the wind... If it wasn't for Grosjean, this team would be made to look like just another flop new team scraping around at the back.

[MikeV1987]

Really not fair what Gutierrez has to say

http://www.motorspor...ery-bad-736141/

 

 

Meanwhile...

 

 

[Lord_Shaitan]

Wow, from the main page:

 

 

All the ****ing great job I'm doing on the inside is not really perceived by the outside.

He's really  .

 

But to be fair, it's partially true what he said. I mean the technical problems made him look bad. In spite of Russian GP he is doing well comparing to Grosjean. I do hope he'll bounce back soon.

 

Of course he shouldn't said what he said but frustration was too big as it seems.

Edited by Lord_Shaitan, 13 May 2016 - 18:04.

[Jbleroi]

the team will be really happy with his words and are now super motivated to work their socks off. idiot

[jals99]

http://www.f1reader....comments-144573

Steiner inderstands Esteban's frustraition, they are frustrated with this problems as well...

[Kev00]

Nothing pisses me off more than a pay driver moaning about his team. Lucky he is there to begin with. Hopefully he follows Pastor out of f1.

[jals99]

He does not blame the team, he trusts them/ From his twitter

Not the best day, really frustrating but I trust the team and hopefully issues will be fixed by qualy. #SpanishGP

 

He is just tired that all problems happens only on his car, and Grosjean always get full week ends, on paper it is 0-22, but on speed they are really close, so this comments are emotional, but understandable...

[Muppetmad]

His comments are understandable, but of course, he has to be careful. A new team is always going to have teething problems, and they're not doing terribly, all things considered. Complaining about the team won't help their morale.

[Radion]

Gut is partially right. While I've no idea what he's exactly doing behind the scenes for the team, his car broke down in Bahrain being right behind grisjean. And that seemed to be the best track for them thus far. Gut lost a good amount of points there cause of the bbw? that let him down.

Edited by Radion, 13 May 2016 - 18:53.

[RacingXO]

Nothing pisses me off more than a pay driver moaning about his team. Lucky he is there to begin with. Hopefully he follows Pastor out of f1.

 

But the car is sh*t and makes him look bad - we saw it couldn't stop in Sochi

 

[jals99]

He does not blame the team,he just says that he is not responsible for the priblems

[Anderis]

Gutierrez was right behind Grosjean in both Australia and Bahrain where he was forced to retire without his fault in both. There's a good chance his season would be perceived differently if he was able to finish them. He could have easily scored as many as 14 points.

[DutchQuicksilver]

I agree, Gutierrez is performing a lot better than in his two Sauber years. His year at Ferrari has certainly paid off.

[coppilcus]

Gutierrez has kept up with Grosjean at pure speed, gather all the bad luck for the team at the moment and making a huge error in the last race. I think that isn't time yet to judge his performance and I think he's right on putting up pressure to the team to solve the issues with his car, he has a certain degree of leverage within the team via his sponsors and he should use it.

[Disgrace]

Gutierrez should have beaten Grosjean today. His Q1 time would have qualified him P13 had he replicated it in Q2. He was the only driver not to improve.

[BalanceUT]

Gutierrez has suffered in the same way that Hamilton has at Mercedes. All of the bad luck on the team has accumulated on his side of the garage. Genuinely randomly distributed luck (good and bad) is like that. Quoting one of my favorite statistics books Statistics as Principled Argument by Robert Abelson (1995), "Local imbalances of one or the other outcome are like undigested lumps in the long stream of data. ... Chance is lumpy. People generally fail to appreciate that occasional long runs of one or the other outcome are a natural feature of random sequences." [emphasis in original]. 

 

Will it balance out over the season? Probably, no. Balancing out would require that the same degree of lumpiness occur in the other direction in relatively short order. That's not to be expected (though it could happen). 

[jals99]

Esteban had good race ,nice overtakes,including teammate,he was faster before Romain problems,but stint on mediums was too long,so lost points in the end.

[Anderis]

Yeah, I was sad to see Gutierrez slipped outside of the top10 at the end of the race, because at one point it looked like he had some points in the bag. In hindsight, he should have pitted one more time, he had the pace and overtaking ability to make 3 stops work.

 

He is really unlucky to be sitting at 0 points still.

[Collective]

Bar the crash in Russia Esteban has been on the pace. Hindsight is 20/20 but today it could have been 9th if they had pitted an e tra time like Kvyat or if they had gone a bit longer in the 2nd stint. I see some complaints (not in this forum) about his move on Grosjean, but I feel any driver worth his salt would have gone for it.

[coppilcus]

Bar the crash in Russia Esteban has been on the pace. Hindsight is 20/20 but today it could have been 9th if they had pitted an e tra time like Kvyat or if they had gone a bit longer in the 2nd stint. I see some complaints (not in this forum) about his move on Grosjean, but I feel any driver worth his salt would have gone for it.

 

I guess that the words from the team on the radio after the race about not being happy were because of that move... Indeed they touched each other. I'll have to think that Romain do not expected an agressive move like that from his team mate and that's why he kept the four wheels between the white lines.

 

Hopefully Gutierrez will manage the pressure and starts performing better on race day...

[Anderis]

I know this was far from clean weekend for Grosjean, but I see no reason not to give this weekend to Gutierrez.

[jals99]

Esteban did good job apart from Rascasse little excursion. But he was about a lap ahead of Grosjean 

[jals99]

I guess that the words from the team on the radio after the race about not being happy were because of that move... Indeed they touched each other. I'll have to think that Romain do not expected an agressive move like that from his team mate and that's why he kept the four wheels between the white lines.

 

Hopefully Gutierrez will manage the pressure and starts performing better on race day...

They said "Good race, good job, but this is just the beginning, we are not happy"...They meant Esteban did good job, but they are not happy without points...It was not about Grosjean episode, it was a bit agressive, but clean overtake

[balage06]

It's interesting, because engineers who worked with Grosjean always say he has a very good understanding of the technical side of the sport, which makes him a good 'development driver', but I think it's also one of his main weaknesses, he can easily get lost in the details and become frustrated (he himself said this in an old interview about his 2009 season, if I remember correctly). And he tends to overdrive the car and complain in these cases instead of getting the most out of it. He has these underwhelming periods in every season.

[Collective]

I really want to read the race report because it was so weird for Haas today. Both cars, once it was dry, were wildly inconsistent, especially after the VSCs ended. I mean 3 or 4 seconds off the pace, then a couple decent laps, then uber crappy again. Is it really that hard to get the tyres working on this car? Saw it with both Romain and Esteban.

Edited by Collective, 29 May 2016 - 23:15.

[William Hunt]

I agree, Gutierrez is performing a lot better than in his two Sauber years. His year at Ferrari has certainly paid off.

 

Gutierrez performance in his first season with Sauber was poor, Hülkenberg trashed him that year and he also made many mistakes too.
But in his second season at Sauber he actually performed a lot better and often beat Sutil but nobody noticed because the car was so bad (and often broke down) that year.
I disagree that he was also bad in his second season, he upped his game then for sure but he still had to learn a lot.

This year Gutierrez has had a tremendous amount of bad luck with technical issues beyond his control robbing him of several points scoring chances.

I have no doubt that Grosjean is the superior driver of the two but Gutierrez is certainly not as bad as some people seem to think he is.

Edited by William Hunt, 29 May 2016 - 23:37.

[RacingXO]

Gutierrez performance in his first season with Sauber was poor, Hülkenberg trashed him that year and he also made many mistakes too.
But in his second season at Sauber he actually performed a lot better and often beat Sutil but nobody noticed because the car was so bad (and often broke down) that year.
I disagree that he was also bad in his second season, he upped his game then for sure but he still had to learn a lot.

This year Gutierrez has had a tremendous amount of bad luck with technical issues beyond his control robbing him of several points scoring chances.

I have no doubt that Grosjean is the superior driver of the two but Gutierrez is certainly not as bad as some people seem to think he is.

 

Maybe Grosjean is not as good as some people think? He at least is a bit unstable in his performance imo....