175 replies to this topic

[balmybaldwin]

Problem solved:  https://www.24mx.co...._pid-PIA-300713

 

May need to make them a bit more aero

Edited by balmybaldwin, 25 March 2024 - 22:51.

[ANF]

A little pouch on the side of the cockpit would do the job. A little elasticated thing that you just stuff the tear off into.

Overall doesn’t seem like a huge problem though.

Exactly. Something elastic that won't hinder the driver's legs in case of a fire.

[PayasYouRace]

Exactly. Something elastic that won't hinder the driver's legs in case of a fire.

 

Something like this:

 

[AustinF1]

A little pouch on the side of the cockpit would do the job. A little elasticated thing that you just stuff the tear off into.

Overall doesn’t seem like a huge problem though.

This is what we have in our cars. Works great. Just stuff the trash inside the little elastic hole at the top and it stays in the bag. I've thought a smaller version would work very well in an F1 car.

 

 

ETA: Or what you posted just above me. That would be great.

Edited by AustinF1, 25 March 2024 - 20:25.

[Primo]

The thing with a rag/cloth solution, tucked between their legs or elsewhere, is that, as we who wear glasses know, there's huge difference between the modern "wipes" and the "smearers" from yesterday. The tearoffs are not a huge problem, but the solution can be very simple. Give them a couple of tearoffs for when the rag fail and suddenly the risk of having a championship decided by a tearoff has shrunk with 80%.

[AncientLurker]

2016: https://www.motorspo...-680760/680760/

Did this rule enforcement disappear quietly after Whiting’s death?

[ARTGP]

The tear offs themselves act like "cling film" when they are removed. That's part of why they get stuck to cars in the first place.

 

So you would be surprised how tricky it would be for the driver to actually get the tear off and place it in a cockpit receptacle when the tear wants to stick to the driver's hand/glove instead of depositing into the bin. That's exactly the kind of fussing about within the cockpit that is dangerous. 

Edited by ARTGP, 26 March 2024 - 01:53.

[Beri]

With all the modern technology available, you'd think they would find a way for this not to cause issues.
Oh wait, isn't there a obscure auto racing series in the "Land of the free/Home of the brave" where they have some sort of screen in front of the halo and they remove a tear off from that during a pitstop? Wouldn't that be a great idea?
FOM and the FIA could market the living daylights out of it as being "environmentally friendly" and a "green and sustainable option" and have tear off manufacturers "embedded in the process of thinking about new and sustainable options".

[PayasYouRace]

With all the modern technology available, you'd think they would find a way for this not to cause issues.
Oh wait, isn't there a obscure auto racing series in the "Land of the free/Home of the brave" where they have some sort of screen in front of the halo and they remove a tear off from that during a pitstop? Wouldn't that be a great idea?
FOM and the FIA could market the living daylights out of it as being "environmentally friendly" and a "green and sustainable option" and have tear off manufacturers "embedded in the process of thinking about new and sustainable options".

What is this Scottish series you speak of?

[BRG]

With all the modern technology available, you'd think they would find a way for this not to cause issues.
Oh wait, isn't there a obscure auto racing series in the "Land of the free/Home of the brave" where they have some sort of screen in front of the halo and they remove a tear off from that during a pitstop? Wouldn't that be a great idea?
FOM and the FIA could market the living daylights out of it as being "environmentally friendly" and a "green and sustainable option" and have tear off manufacturers "embedded in the process of thinking about new and sustainable options".

Right....the All-American solution is to have a massive tear-off on the aeroscreen instead of a tiddly little one on the visor.  Less chance of it getting into the oily bits of the car of course, as it is in the pits, but look at all that extra plastic pollution!!  Won't anyone think of the children??

[Clatter]

2016: https://www.motorspo...-680760/680760/

Did this rule enforcement disappear quietly after Whiting’s death?

There's mention of it in this article from 2022. Have to admit that I don't remember Leclerc bringing this up, but does show that at the least one driver thinks something should be done.

https://www.autospor...-offs/10361356/

[Beri]

What is this Scottish series you speak of?

 

The annual soapbox derby of the town of Twatt (not making that one up, its really a Scottish town name)

 

 

Right....the All-American solution is to have a massive tear-off on the aeroscreen instead of a tiddly little one on the visor.  Less chance of it getting into the oily bits of the car of course, as it is in the pits, but look at all that extra plastic pollution!!  Won't anyone think of the children??

 

Thats a pretty harsh solution. Putting a kid up on the car to wipe the visor/screen clean....

[Risil]

Has anybody suggested the possibility of tear-off tethers, like they have for wheels?

[PayasYouRace]

Has anybody suggested the possibility of tear-off tethers, like they have for wheels?

I like the mental image this has given me of a driver’s helmet looking like it has insect wings flapping about on either side of it at the end of the race..

[ANF]

2016: https://www.motorspo...-680760/680760/

Did this rule enforcement disappear quietly after Whiting’s death?

The proposed tear-off rule was never implemented:

 

Monaco Grand Prix: FIA makes U-turn on tear-offs ban

The ban was originally supposed to come in from this weekend's Monaco Grand Prix, leading to McLaren driver Jenson Button describing the proposal as "silly".
...
The debate, however, continued into the Monaco drivers' briefing with FIA race director Charlie Whiting that was conducted post-practice, with Toro Rosso's Dannil Kvyat describing the discussion as "kindergarten talk".

Much of the conversation focused on just where the tear-offs should be disposed, given the difficulties drivers faced in attempting to place them inside any kind of receptacle in the cockpit, particularly on such a twisty track as Monaco.

Taking the comments under consideration, Whiting has now decided to lift the ban with immediate effect, albeit urging the drivers to show restraint on how often they disposed of the strips.

https://www.autospor...324626/5324626/

[Beri]

As silly it might have sounded to Button back then, having hundred(s) tear offs flying around every race, makes up for a couple of thousands over the course of the season. And since Buttons exclamations even tens of thousands of non degradable plastics thrown in the environment and are not even collected. In this day and age of the hunt for sustainability, a tear off as a solution is t sustainable on its own anymore.

[Secretariat]

As silly it might have sounded to Button back then, having hundred(s) tear offs flying around every race, makes up for a couple of thousands over the course of the season. And since Buttons exclamations even tens of thousands of non degradable plastics thrown in the environment and are not even collected. In this day and age of the hunt for sustainability, a tear off as a solution is t sustainable on its own anymore.

I agree. After proposing and reading other ideas, a better overall solution is to tear-offs itself. Balmybaldwin linked to an interesting solution. We see this films on in car cameras. If they are able to have tiny cameras inside the driver's helmets, a solution to what was linked to would seem plausible.

 

EDIT: I used to also follow Super-cross/Moto-cross back in the day (not anymore) so was pleased when I saw Jeremy McGrath haha.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=CHrDRS6Lf7M

Edited by Secretariat, 26 March 2024 - 12:59.

[AncientLurker]

This is just another example of why we should have never gotten rid of ride along mechanics.

[Scotracer]

We should be reviewing the data from Indycar, who have tearoffs on the aeroscreen of the cockpit, that can only be removed at pitstops. Is that sufficient? Why would F1 be any different? I would argue probably less of an issue for the eye to see past something if it's close up (on the visor) than further away.

[FirstnameLastname]

Windscreen wiper on the helmet

Or ban helmets

[PayasYouRace]

We should be reviewing the data from Indycar, who have tearoffs on the aeroscreen of the cockpit, that can only be removed at pitstops. Is that sufficient? Why would F1 be any different? I would argue probably less of an issue for the eye to see past something if it's close up (on the visor) than further away.

I’d imagine the aerodynamics of the screen work well to reduce the amount of debris and dirt that sticks to it compared to a helmet.

[ATM]

The aero engineers would throw a hissy fit of epic proportions before agreeing to what is basically a windshield; they would have to rethink all of the channeling around the halo. Maybe doable between seasons but it's a big evolution in-season I guess.

[AustinF1]

The tear offs themselves act like "cling film" when they are removed. That's part of why they get stuck to cars in the first place.

 

So you would be surprised how tricky it would be for the driver to actually get the tear off and place it in a cockpit receptacle when the tear wants to stick to the driver's hand/glove instead of depositing into the bin. That's exactly the kind of fussing about within the cockpit that is dangerous. 

Then how about a piece of very sticky adhesive mounted inside the cockpit, adhesive out. The driver could simply stick the tearoff to it. Much simpler and quicker than trying to put it inside something.

Edited by AustinF1, 27 March 2024 - 15:41.

[AustinF1]

We should be reviewing the data from Indycar, who have tearoffs on the aeroscreen of the cockpit, that can only be removed at pitstops. Is that sufficient? Why would F1 be any different? I would argue probably less of an issue for the eye to see past something if it's close up (on the visor) than further away.

Or just keep using helmet tearoffs but only let drivers tear them off while stationary in the pits. They usually tear one off as they exit the pits anyway.

[Scotracer]

I’d imagine the aerodynamics of the screen work well to reduce the amount of debris and dirt that sticks to it compared to a helmet.

Fair. However we also know that the teams try to reduce the air intrusion in to the cockpit to a minimum too.

[PayasYouRace]

Fair. However we also know that the teams try to reduce the air intrusion in to the cockpit to a minimum too.

I’d expect that the higher inertia of dirt and debris would take it through the airflow structures and into the cockpit.

 

As an aside, the aircraft I work on uses this principle as a particle filter on its engine intakes. You force the air round a tight curve in the intake, and the more massive particles are flung outwards, collected by a scroll and ejected.