54 replies to this topic

[56Lotus]

Hope you can help

 

I'm trying to find the type or brand of jacket commonly worn by Mike and seen in photo's on these two pages.

 

http://thejudge13.co...-f1-10th-april/

 

https://scarfandgogg...-drivers-bride/

 

managed to work out how to post (I think)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's been suggested that it's a type of military jacket?

 

As a second question did he use Suixtil for his race trousers?

 

Hope some one can remember 

 

Thanks

 

Jon Adams

[Sharman]

I str it was described as a golf jacket

[E1pix]

It'd be tough to even putt in that thing.

Great photos, though!

[Vitesse2]

I'm inclined to agree with E1pix that it's probably not a golf jacket. The best-known golf jackets in the 1950s were made by Grenfell - or Haythornthwaite's as they were known then - but were longer and much looser-fitting. On their website they boast of having supplied Eyston, both Campbells, SCM and 'other stars of post-war motor sport.' Moss and Donald Campbell also featured in their advertising at the time, but not Hawthorn.

 

http://grenfell.com/pages/speed

 

Having said that, I did find a 1937 Harrods advert which featured a similar zip-fronted waist-length golf jacket, again in Grenfell fabric and possibly a Harrods exclusive design. Button-down pockets rather than zipped, though.

[Doug Nye]

Please note that the first photograph of Mike standing to attention for the national anthems at Buenos Aires in 1958 was taken by Phil Hill and is strictly copyright The Hill Family Archive.

 

DCN

[Jack-the-Lad]

Hope you can help
 
I'm trying to find the type or brand of jacket commonly worn by Mike and seen in photo's on these two pages.
 
http://thejudge13.co...-f1-10th-april/
 
https://scarfandgogg...-drivers-bride/
 
managed to work out how to post (I think)
 
 
 

 
 
 

 
 
It's been suggested that it's a type of military jacket?
 
As a second question did he use Suixtil for his race trousers?
 
Hope some one can remember 
 
Thanks
 
Jon Adams

Thanks for the links.

[Nick Wa]

Mike standing to attention for the national anthems at Buenos Aires in  1958.

 

 

How standards have slipped, not a baseball cap to be seen and spiky gelled hair had not been invented.

[Eric Dunsdon]

I'm inclined to agree with E1pix that it's probably not a golf jacket. The best-known golf jackets in the 1950s were made by Grenfell - or Haythornthwaite's as they were known then - but were longer and much looser-fitting. On their website they boast of having supplied Eyston, both Campbells, SCM and 'other stars of post-war motor sport.' Moss and Donald Campbell also featured in their advertising at the time, but not Hawthorn.

 

 

I had two green jackets like that in the 1950's. One of shiny material, the other a sort of matt finish. I tried to get a red one as worn by JamesDean in  'Rebel Without A Cause' but settled for green because of Mike.  Got them from  a Boys And  Gents Outfitters in Wood Green North London. Now long gone (like the jackets!).

[Eric Dunsdon]

Mike standing to attention for the national anthems at Buenos Aires in  1958.

 

 

How standards have slipped, not a baseball cap to be seen and spiky gelled hair had not been invented.

And they took the trouble to shave in the morning.

[kayemod]

Mike standing to attention for the national anthems at Buenos Aires in  1958.

 

 

How standards have slipped, not a baseball cap to be seen and spiky gelled hair had not been invented.

 

Big earings and a hefty gold chain would set Mike's ensemble off really nicely...

[Vitesse2]

I think we may be drifting a teeny-weeny bit off-topic here ...

[Macca]

Returning to the topic, it seems the American company Dickies (who still make workwear) brought out that style of jacket for lorry drivers in the 1950s and it caught on; so perhaps that's where JMH got his. They have reintroduced as a fashion accessory called 'Dickies 1922' but not in green, I believe.

 

https://www.heddels....rkwear-classic/

 

 

Paul M

[Vitesse2]

Well, possibly, Paul. But their website says they didn't have a European presence until the late 1950s. And their UK manufacturing plant didn't open until 1989 - it's just up the road from me in Midsomer Norton.

 

http://www.dickieswo...dickies-history

 

There is a green 1950s Dickies trucker jacket on eBay - item 222064041451 - but like the Harrods golf jacket I found it has button-down pockets rather than zip ones. Collar design is different too.

[RA Historian]

In Chris Nixon's wonderful book, Mon Ami Mate, he does not identify the maker of the green jacket, but does describe the rationale behind it.

 

"Before going to Silverstone (1953) --having learned that his days with a green Ferrari were over--he decided to add a dark green zip-front jacket, or wind-cheater, to his racing uniform. 'If I can't drive a green car,' he told Neil McNab, 'at least I can wear a green jacket'."

 

Alas, this was before sponsorships became all prevailing.No patches on jacket, no endorsement deals!

 

Tom

[56Lotus]

Thanks for all the suggestions gents

 

The key detail I'm working on is the seam which runs forwards over the shoulders and under the armpits.  The only manufacturer I can find who used this style is Baracuta with the G35.  The styles I'm looking at are Harrington, Windcheater, Anti Freeze by various different manufactures including:

 

Grenfell

 

http://www.thefedora...ic-1950s.76793/

 

Good link with mention of golf and cycling but not those strange seams but pockets are closer

 

Sir Jac

 

again close

 

Macgregor

 

but this is from the states so less likely

 

My wife is quite concerned, this is the most attention I've paid to clothing in many years!

 

Will keep looking

 

Jon Adams

[Glengavel]

I think we may be drifting a teeny-weeny bit off-topic here ...

 

No doubt choleric colonels were dashing off letters to the Times complaining about that Hawthorn chap not wearing a dinner jacket, dammit, and a bow-tie, the cad!

 

Hold on, are TNFers modern-day choleric colonels?

[Garsted]

if you just want the look....

 

http://www.peterchri...rrington-jacket

 

Steve

[kayemod]

Returning to the topic, it seems the American company Dickies (who still make workwear) brought out that style of jacket for lorry drivers in the 1950s and it caught on; so perhaps that's where JMH got his. They have reintroduced as a fashion accessory called 'Dickies 1922' but not in green, I believe.

 

https://www.heddels....rkwear-classic/

 

 

Paul M

 

Assuming that the product hasn't changed, and if Mike could have seen this same Dickies catalogue back in the 1950s, I'm sure that the inclusion of an "...inside smartphone pocket..." would have made the decision for him, in the current idiom, "a no-brainer".

[56Lotus]

if you just want the look....

 

http://www.peterchri...rrington-jacket

 

Steve

 

This is where my stupid nature gets the better of me.  Its close but doesn't have the right collar, shoulder seam, pockets, waist band etc.  Whilst no one else would either know or care it would just irritate me.

 

If it's to be done then it has to be done properly or not at all.  (this is why no DIY gets done in my house!)

 

Thanks though

 

Jon Adams

[Garsted]

This is where my stupid nature gets the better of me.  Its close but doesn't have the right collar, shoulder seam, pockets, waist band etc.  Whilst no one else would either know or care it would just irritate me.

 

If it's to be done then it has to be done properly or not at all.  (this is why no DIY gets done in my house!)

 

Thanks though

 

Jon Adams

Well, at least it was green anyway,  Maybe Nigel Webb knows

 

http://www.mike-hawt....org.uk/m09.php

 

Steve

[Slurp1955]

More to the point, what brand of tabs has Peter Collins got in his pocket? Beer and fags....., back then F1 was a proper sport, JohnP

[Eric Dunsdon]

More to the point, what brand of tabs has Peter Collins got in his pocket? Beer and fags....., back then F1 was a proper sport, JohnP

And we called it Grand Prix racing not 'F1'.

[Slurp1955]

Did "we" indeed. And we live in a post-ironic age too.

Edited by Slurp1955, 05 April 2016 - 08:39.

[Paulleek]

I've mused about this over the years, and never seen anything quite like the jackets that JMH wore anywhere else. I say jackets, plural, because he had at least one other which was slightly different...

[kayemod]

I've mused about this over the years, and never seen anything quite like the jackets that JMH wore anywhere else. I say jackets, plural, because he had at least one other which was slightly different...

 

As a small child, I was always entranced by Sir Stirling's "panda-eyes" appearance when he took his goggles off after a race, all oil and other debris from his and the other cars on the track. I know that Mike usually wore a visor, but that wouldn't have protected his jacket. Given the amount of fluids and filth that the front engined cars of that era chucked out, I'd think that he must have got through quite a lot of jackets. He took a lot of care over his appearance, we never saw him looking oil-stained or scruffy, it's not so surprising if his green jackets weren't all identical.

[Eric Dunsdon]

I've mused about this over the years, and never seen anything quite like the jackets that JMH wore anywhere else. I say jackets, plural, because he had at least one other which was slightly different...

When the conditions were wet  ie 1954 British Grand prix, 1955 Le Mans Mike wore a different style of jacket. Longer, with elasticated waist and in a sort of what I believe is known as biege.

[Jack-the-Lad]

I've mused about this over the years, and never seen anything quite like the jackets that JMH wore anywhere else. I say jackets, plural, because he had at least one other which was slightly different...

That picture is begging for a caption contest!

[f1steveuk]

Reminds me of bus drivers jackets, especially from the U.S, but in that period, they usually had button down pocket flaps. I'm told they were drivers jackets, as the horizontal pockets prevented hands being thrust into them all the time as opposed to the Harrington style vertical, or just off vertical pockets. The fact the Hawthorn jacket has zips is quite unusual for the time

Edited by f1steveuk, 11 April 2016 - 15:04.

[Michael Ferner]

That picture is begging for a caption contest!

Is that Jean Behra?

[kayemod]

 

 

That picture is begging for a caption contest!

 

 

"I wore a jacket exactly like that one in Kramer vs Kramer!"

[Michael Ferner]

"Mon Dieu, you are dressed very nattily! I shall change into something more comfortable, I 'ope I look 'alf as good as you!"

[Bloggsworth]

Green jacket? Did Mike Hawthorn really win The Masters?

[Michael Ferner]

Better. He was World Champion

[RS2000]

"How dare you barge me out of your way! I shall make a fist with my right hand in a shape that is difficult to replicate and looks as if I have no thumb and give you a jolly good thrashing!"

 

 

JMH was prone to doing that. He barged me out of the way at the crowded 58 Motor Show. At his elevation and distracted, he didn't always see other people until it was too late - especially when they were 10 years old and at a much lower altitude. 

[Jack-the-Lad]

"I say, old chap, did you have a chili dog for lunch?"

(One for us Yanks)

[56Lotus]

I've mused about this over the years, and never seen anything quite like the jackets that JMH wore anywhere else. I say jackets, plural, because he had at least one other which was slightly different...

 

 

Thanks for posting this.  It seems this is the type of jacket he used for the beginning and majority of his career.  The jacket I showed earlier is probably more famous as it's in color and from his champion year.  I've spent far too many hours scanning Google images with a variety of searches by styles and manufacturers.  I found many close but none with those distinctive external zipped pockets.  Well known brands that have come close include Baracuta, Grenfell, Belstaff (for the external pockets) Barbour, Aviakit and many more.  Next time I bump into Nigel I'll ask him unless anyone else sees him first.  I agree he must have had a few of these jackets as their gear got covered with oil every race.  He also wore different jackets in the wet and Sallon's caricature of him shows a brown jacket.

 

This is one of those things that will bother me for years I expect.

 

Thanks for the responses

 

Jon Adams

[MCS]

I sort of hesitate to say this, as I will probably be accused of being a "Mod" - not that this would be too insulting - but it looks like a forerunner of the Harrington jacket, now very popular again.

 

That said, I don't think they had pockets as high as Mike's.

 

I stand to be corrected.

[LotusElise]

I was going to say Harrington jacket.

 

It could also be some sort of flight jacket, or possibly a custom version of either of the above, knocked up by Mr H's tailor? I'm sure he had one. 

 

I assume racing overalls of the time were off the peg, as they were often quite ill-fitting.

[D-Type]

Surely it's simply a case of whatever the Farnham gents' outfitters had in stock as green "golf jackets" whenever Mike needed a new one.

[f1steveuk]

The style is either an Eisenhower or Ricky, though my French neighbour says it looks like a 1950s French workers jacket.

 

Just a thought. Mike's helmet was a Herbert Johnson, who were gents outfitters, and polo suppliers. Could these jackets befound in a 1950s HJ catologue?

Edited by f1steveuk, 12 April 2016 - 07:39.

[Jack-the-Lad]

This jacket has little in common with the "Ike" aside from the abbreviated length. Although there were some deviations, the Ike had large breast pockets with pleats and a flap closure; epaulets; self-belted waist; notched lapels; button cuffs.

Edited by Jack-the-Lad, 13 April 2016 - 03:39.

[raceannouncer2003]

 

 

"Ah, yes, I did forget my deodorant..."

 

Vince H.

Edited by raceannouncer2003, 13 April 2016 - 05:22.

[f1steveuk]

This jacket has little in common with the "Ike" aside from the abbreviated length. Although there were some deviations, the Ike had large breast pockets with pleats and a flap closure; epaulets; self-belted waist; notched lapels; button cuffs.

It may have little in common with it, but that is what  that  style is called, a short mens, military style jacket. Vendors and manufacturers use style names quite generally, not accurately.

 

My thinking is still very much that as Mike's helmet startedlife as a "polo" helmet, maybe so too did his jacket!!

[56Lotus]

I've mused about this over the years, and never seen anything quite like the jackets that JMH wore anywhere else. I say jackets, plural, because he had at least one other which was slightly different...

 

Well, I've finally found one of these, It does seem to be a "french worker Jacket" but the label inside is dual language, French/English.  I believe it is just a simple workwear jacket, available at any garage.  The only problem is the label doesn't actually have a makers brand,but the cloth is "Sanfor".  The cheap availability could explain a new jacket every race meeting.

 

Although if you google Rallye-Kombination  Someone seems to be making a very similar overall.  I've seen a photo on REVS of Hawthorn wearing something very similar early in his career

 

The example I have is in french blue, the options I have are to re-dye it green or to take it to pieces and make a green copy.

 

Next it's the trousers

 

Why do these things matter?

 

Jon

[kayemod]

 

Well, I've finally found one of these, It does seem to be a "french worker Jacket" but the label inside is dual language, French/English.  I believe it is just a simple workwear jacket, available at any garage.  The only problem is the label doesn't actually have a makers brand,but the cloth is "Sanfor".  The cheap availability could explain a new jacket every race meeting.

 

Jon

 

 

I'm with you all the way on the general irrelevance of all this, but you're right about this type of jacket being popular in France, as well as some other European countries, our own Fred Dibnah used to go up tall chimneys wearing something very similar, but the term "workmens' jackets" says it all. These things are quite cheap, saggy and rough looking items, they're not the kind of garb a well dressed racing driver would wear, even back in the 1950s.

 

Is it possible that Mike liked the general appearance of these items, possibly having seen one worn by a road mender chappie on a visit to Reims or elsewhere, and had copies made by his English tailor? I think we should be grateful that he spared us the accompanying beret.

[f1steveuk]

My French nieghbour is going to be so chuffed when I tell him that his suggestion to me, which became my suggestion to you, may be right. He was unbearable when England left the Euro "balling chasing" championships a few years back......................

[Doug Nye]

The suited gentleman so evidently impressed by Mike's sartorial savour faire is Maestro Nello Ugolini - at various times Direttore Sportivo of Ferrari, of Maserati and of Scuderia Serenissima and Filipinetti - and also of the Modena, Bologna and Torino football clubs - I believe, but then my knowledge of kickball would barely cover a pin head.   

 

DCN

[RS2000]

I guess the dark hair was preventing us linking to Ugolini, who seemed to have quite fair hair in other photos. From those other photos, ultra striped jackets should have been a clue...

Only now do I notice Hawthorn's hair in that photo is far darker too than it actually was!

 

Surely the traditional French workman's jacket is always blue and "conventional jacket shape" rather than the (so-called today) "bomber jacket" style? Just like the ones sometimes favoured by Monty Don on TV gardening programmes.  

[f1steveuk]

If a Frenchman is telling me it's a French workers jacket, there's a chance he might be right!!

[56Lotus]

The jacket is slightly better quality than you would think.  It is tailored in towards the waist and the Sanfor material is treated to avoid shrinkage etc. and has retained it's shape.  The fabric is quite thick, thicker than more modern work jackets that I've seen.

 

Those pockets on the chest are easily accessible when driving, rather than trouser or lower "bomber" style pockets, so I'm presuming the style would be aimed at delivery drivers etc. and would be handy in a long race.

 

Most domestic "french" jackets are blue but it seems this is clearly aimed at the export market, so perhaps a range of colors was available.  If you search under "french", "worker" or "chore"  the majority are blue but other colors do crop up more infrequently.

 

Perhaps those in France could search those local markets and see what comes up?

 

Any ideas for the trousers?  I'm pretty sure they're not Suixtil.

 

Thanks for your thoughts 

 

Jon Adams

 

That's too much thought going into one jacket.