52 replies to this topic

[johnmhinds]

http://paultan.org/2...-reopens-may-8/

 

 

Ongoing work to repair and improve the Sepang International Circuit (SIC) which began on February 15, 2016, are well on track for the circuit’s reopening on May 8, this year. The circuit’s operators have announced that the project is “moving swiftly with more than 50% of the major work already completed.”

“The track work is our priority, while ensuring that each step of the way meets stringent global standards,” said SIC chief Datuk Razlan Razali. “We are also racing against the clock to meet the deadline ahead of the 2016 FIM Superbike World Championship Malaysian Round which will be held at SIC from May 13 to 15.”

The entire 5.543 km SIC circuit is currently being resurfaced, with repairs led by Jarno Zafelli, circuit designer head of Italian design firm, Dromo. It is said that the upgrading works will also improve drivability at most of the circuit’s corners.

Interestingly, the press statement claims that the new final corner at SIC will “make a major impact to the track” and offer drivers and riders a brand new and challenging experience. Other areas being upgraded include the circuit’s drainage system, kerbs, run-off areas and shortcut roads.

“We are trying not only to meet, but get the track ready ahead of the May 8 promise,” said Razlan. “(We want) to ensure that we can start preparations for WorldSBK (early), which is the first big race to burn rubber on the new and improved track. We want Malaysians to come and support our local hero, Fahmi, as well as witness the reopening of the track.”

 

 

Couple of photos of them working on the re-profiled final corner:

 

 

 

[Marklar]

So they are possibly messing one of Tilkes more reasonable tracks up? Great...

[Risil]

Hmm. Is that an extra apex?

[Kristian]

I can't find any diagrams of the new layout, but I did find:

 

 ".. completely reprofiled, variable banking, off camber" 

[Prost1997T]

Taking cues from Nascar I see.   

[Risil]

 ".. completely reprofiled, variable banking, off camber" 

 

Bet the MotoGP boys will love that.

[johnmhinds]

Hmm. Is that an extra apex?

 

I think the apex is the same, they just had to slope the track away to help the drainage because that corner would flood every time it rained.

Edited by johnmhinds, 14 April 2016 - 17:17.

[f1paul]

So there's no big changes the layout is still the same

 

Right???

[PayasYouRace]

I'm surprised it's taken them so long to sort out the drainage.

[balmybaldwin]

So there's no big changes the layout is still the same

 

Right???

 

Looks like it, but some corners may be different as they'll have had camber applied to aid drainage.... looking at the final curve pic it looks like it's got negative camber (tilts towards the outside) I don't know what it was like before tho.

[OO7]

Quite typical of Tilke circuits.  "Ooh, overtaking is very difficult, so let us add an awkward, unrewarding, slow, off-camber corner to make it more tricky and force mistakes."

[johnmhinds]

[JeePee]

Quite typical of Tilke circuits.  "Ooh, overtaking is very difficult, so let us add an awkward, unrewarding, slow, off-camber corner to make it more tricky and force mistakes."

... where nobody ever makes a mistake.

Edited by JeePee, 20 April 2016 - 13:50.

[superden]

So ... its a tighter, slower, off-camber corner at the end of a long straight?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How unusual ...

 

[Ross Stonefeld]

Ugh, stop repaving racetracks. Unless there are genuine potholes or issues with the track falling apart, bumps make it interesting. 

[PayasYouRace]

Sepang has genuine issues with water drainage, so I think this is fair enough.

[Kristian]

Quite typical of Tilke circuits.  "Ooh, overtaking is very difficult, so let us add an awkward, unrewarding, slow, off-camber corner to make it more tricky and force mistakes."

 

I remember Tilke being interviewed about Abu Dhabi and he was saying "It will be interesting, as I've inserted mistake generators into the corners" i.e. made them off camber. FFS just make some challenging medium-fast speed corners which shows variations in drivers' styles/talent, and then you'll see some rewarding driving.  

[boomn]

Ugh, stop repaving racetracks. Unless there are genuine potholes or issues with the track falling apart, bumps make it interesting. 

Perfectly flat tracks flatter the cars and help make them look futuristic and otherworldly, like spaceships on the ground.  I'm sure that those in charge of and promoting F1 want to keep furthering this image of F1.  There is something about an F1 car driving incredibly smooth and flat through turns that looks like calligraphy on a track.  I still would rather have cars that get unsettled more though, and rougher tracks would push the cars towards that

 

Stadium Super F1 Steeplechase with purposeful puddles and huge bumps could be interesting too

[Kobasmashi]

I remember Tilke being interviewed about Abu Dhabi and he was saying "It will be interesting, as I've inserted mistake generators into the corners" i.e. made them off camber. FFS just make some challenging medium-fast speed corners which shows variations in drivers' styles/talent, and then you'll see some rewarding driving.  

 

Exactly. There's a reason Istanbul's Turn 8 is by far the best Tilkedrome corner.

[Araqiel]

T12/13 (IIRC) at India were pretty good too. Maybe not to watch on TV but very challenging to drive. Real shame that circuit isn't on the calendar anymore IMO.

[Jon83]

I remember Tilke being interviewed about Abu Dhabi and he was saying "It will be interesting, as I've inserted mistake generators into the corners" i.e. made them off camber. FFS just make some challenging medium-fast speed corners which shows variations in drivers' styles/talent, and then you'll see some rewarding driving.  

 

The only mistake is Tilke himself. 

[Atreiu]

So they are possibly messing one of Tilkes more reasonable tracks up? Great...

 

Meh, it's an average circuit, but god for HT standards.

[Atreiu]

Mario Kart is full of mistake generators, LOL.

[Jimisgod]

Here's how you design a track.

 

1. Find a patch of open land with decent elevation changes.

2. Imagine the distribution of a few small villages at points like rivers, springs, wells, etc.

3. Find a civil engineer to plot out what would be the best way to join the imagined villages across the countryside without disturbing too much land.

 

Congratulations, now you've designed a classic track.

 

The reason why you don't get good racing is because there's about 10 cookie-cutter corners approved for Tilke-dromes and once you have them perfected, half the calendar is now a breeze. Show me a corner from Spa, Brazil, Canada or the A1 Ring and most people here could probably name it instantly. Give one from Korea, India, Abu Dhabi and I probably wouldn't even know which track it came from.

[byrkus]

Here's how you design a track.

 

1. Find a patch of open land with decent elevation changes.

 

Here lies the fundamental problem. There just AREN'T any o such patches of land available nowadays. At least not for a racetrack. Instead, the circuit developer arrives into an area, which is unsuitable for anything else - usually it's a piece of flat marshlands, far from any civilization. With this condition in mind, even Hans Hugenholtz couldn't achieve anything momentous, let alone Hermann Tilke...

[AlexS]

The Tilke corners mostly all like the same as if they are pieces from a scaletrix track so they don't have the differences others have. It is all formulaic.

 

Btw decent elevation changes are not something difficult to do.

[Archer]

Here's how you design a track.

 

1. Find a patch of open land with decent elevation changes.

2. Imagine the distribution of a few small villages at points like rivers, springs, wells, etc.

3. Find a civil engineer to plot out what would be the best way to join the imagined villages across the countryside without disturbing too much land.

 

Congratulations, now you've designed a classic track.

 

The reason why you don't get good racing is because there's about 10 cookie-cutter corners approved for Tilke-dromes and once you have them perfected, half the calendar is now a breeze. Show me a corner from Spa, Brazil, Canada or the A1 Ring and most people here could probably name it instantly. Give one from Korea, India, Abu Dhabi and I probably wouldn't even know which track it came from.

 

It is impossible to make more sense in a message. The best tracks follow the shape of the terrain, and the layout is a consequence of the terrain. In the Tilkodromes the track is designed in an engineering office in a computer with cad software, once the track layout is finished in the computer, they calculate how much they will need to change the terrain with excavations. And also the change in elevation gives the tracks character, but not all the tracks should be roller coasters, or we could fall in the same error as Tilke: making the same track in different countries.

[Fastcake]

Here lies the fundamental problem. There just AREN'T any o such patches of land available nowadays. At least not for a racetrack. Instead, the circuit developer arrives into an area, which is unsuitable for anything else - usually it's a piece of flat marshlands, far from any civilization. With this condition in mind, even Hans Hugenholtz couldn't achieve anything momentous, let alone Hermann Tilke...

 

Aye, that's a key problem. You're never going to get another Spa, because no one will allow you to bulldoze through a forest just to build a racing circuit. Tilke doesn't decide where to build a circuit. All he does is design one in the land provided by the promoters, which is often flat and featureless, and often has to have a marina or a hotel with lights on built into the same complex. Someone with fresh ideas could have a go, but you'll never get brilliance from Abu Dhabi.

[Kristian]

Here lies the fundamental problem. There just AREN'T any o such patches of land available nowadays. At least not for a racetrack. Instead, the circuit developer arrives into an area, which is unsuitable for anything else - usually it's a piece of flat marshlands, far from any civilization. With this condition in mind, even Hans Hugenholtz couldn't achieve anything momentous, let alone Hermann Tilke...

 

Abu Dhabi had plenty of land, and plenty of money to invest in making a challenging track, with elevation change etc. A decent designer with the budget there - and, to be fair, less restrictive FIA rules - could have come up with something amazing. 

 

F1 cars should be adapted to the circuits they are given, not the other way round. That's why classic circuits were, well, classics. 

[ANF]

[PayasYouRace]

Fair to say if it hadn't been for this thread I wouldn't have noticed the changes.

[johnmhinds]

Kind of a shame it looks so smooth now.

 

The minor amounts of camber aren't going to upset an F1 car too much.

[Pete_f1]

Were they done for this years GP?

[Nonesuch]

Here lies the fundamental problem. There just AREN'T any o such patches of land available nowadays.

 

The Buddh track in India was praised by Vettel for having "a lot of elevation change around the lap which adds to the fun, from as much as 8% downhill and up to 10% uphill; it’s like a roller coaster". And as the FIA's website details: "Buddh International Circuit features several challenging changes of elevation – none of which are entirely natural. Some four million cubic tonnes of earth were bulldozed into place during circuit construction."

 

It is possible to make something interesting (though I suppose opinions on Buddh aren't unanimously positive), but there are indeed plenty of reasons why it doesn't happen very often.

Edited by Nonesuch, 07 July 2016 - 18:15.

[johnmhinds]

Most of the elevation changes at Buddh were done in a straight line, which isn't that exciting to watch.

[SenorSjon]

Plus the camera angles are usually hopeless in conveying the height differences.

[ANF]

Anyway, I'll miss the dip in T2.

[BillBald]

Revised pit entry shown at the start of the video.

[teejay]

Having been to Sepang twice, changes for drainage are most welcomed - they way it rains there and what it does to the track is utterly insane

[senna da silva]

The Buddh track in India was praised by Vettel for having "a lot of elevation change around the lap which adds to the fun, from as much as 8% downhill and up to 10% uphill; it’s like a roller coaster". And as the FIA's website details: "Buddh International Circuit features several challenging changes of elevation – none of which are entirely natural. Some four million cubic tonnes of earth were bulldozed into place during circuit construction."

 

It is possible to make something interesting (though I suppose opinions on Buddh aren't unanimously positive), but there are indeed plenty of reasons why it doesn't happen very often.

 

Turkey is a great circuit with a lot of elevation changes.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=47Hgjod_dYY

Edited by senna da silva, 08 July 2016 - 01:50.

[OO7]

Why was negative camber necessary for drainage, couldn't the designers have used positive camber with drainage on the inside of the corners?  

I can't say I'll miss the dip on the apex of T2, the cars look awkward going through there, similar to T1 at the Nurburgring.

 

BTW, do most typical turbocharged racing cars sound like that inside the cabin, because I found it pretty irritating?

[BalanceUT]

Perfectly flat tracks flatter the cars and help make them look futuristic and otherworldly, like spaceships on the ground.  I'm sure that those in charge of and promoting F1 want to keep furthering this image of F1.  There is something about an F1 car driving incredibly smooth and flat through turns that looks like calligraphy on a track.  I still would rather have cars that get unsettled more though, and rougher tracks would push the cars towards that

 

Stadium Super F1 Steeplechase with purposeful puddles and huge bumps could be interesting too

One of the reasons the bumpy tracks flatter the cars is that they can run lower ground clearance to maximize the underfloor aero effects. Bumpier reduces and creates variation in the aero that makes cars harder to drive, creates more chances for driving errors. 

[Kalmake]

Why was negative camber necessary for drainage, couldn't the designers have used positive camber with drainage on the inside of the corners?  

I can't say I'll miss the dip on the apex of T2, the cars look awkward going through there, similar to T1 at the Nurburgring.

 

BTW, do most typical turbocharged racing cars sound like that inside the cabin, because I found it pretty irritating?

That's what they did for most corners. Where the video says "negative camber increased" are on-camber corners still.

[OO7]

That's what they did for most corners. Where the video says "negative camber increased" are on-camber corners still.

You're right.  It's just the final corner that is off-camber.

Edited by OO7, 08 July 2016 - 05:54.

[Radion]

No turn 2 dip anymore. 😞

[TecnoRacing]

FYI guys I think that video is INCORRECT.

 

I think he is confused by the terminology.

 

What he is labeling as 'negative camber' should be positive or 'on camber'

 

Turn 5 for instance...he says is 200% more 'negative camber' - in actuallity is 200% more 'on camber' now. Much more banking, much faster.

 

Turn 15 is is the only corner that was been slowed down (more off-camber)

Edited by fer312t, 08 July 2016 - 05:52.

[OO7]

Has the profile/radius of T15 been altered?  It traditionally has been a corner that allows multiple lines, so I hope that aspect hasn't changed, as the pictures (prior to completion) seemed to suggest that it has been narrowed.

[Xentas]

i don't know why the track needed resurfacing for, it was apart of the character that made it a great track from the last century, now it's been changed. how much of the character of the track has changed i wonder. i still remember the 2001 race with Jos in that under-powered 2000 Peugeot engine Arrows car, making himself known when things got interesting around the track when it started raining.

Edited by Xentas, 08 July 2016 - 09:56.

[PayasYouRace]

Presumably the surface is now similar to how it was when it was new in 1999. Roads need resurfacing every once in a while, or we'd end up with rallycross.

Jos was always good in the rain. Doesn't really have anything to do with it.

[Xentas]

Presumably the surface is now similar to how it was when it was new in 1999. Roads need resurfacing every once in a while, or we'd end up with rallycross.

Jos was always good in the rain. Doesn't really have anything to do with it.

 

In 1999 the bumps were always there, the various dips and such. some tracks like Canada need resurfacing every once in a while because the tarmac would come up or crack in places, almost always in the hairpin where Kubica crashed a few years ago. Some track surfaces have not really been replaced over time, i guess it depends how hard the tarmac gets punished by the aerodynamics and the sticky tyres under heavy loads and the type of materials used in the surfacing.

 

What i remember most about Jos in Malaysia, i was not making the point across the whole of the series.