876 replies to this topic

[Nonesuch]

That really highlights just how awful the camera angles are in modern F1 coverage.

 

What do you FLY EMIRATES mean? We can see ROLEX quite a lot of FLY EMIRATES the cars.
 

[limit]

He overtook Ricciardo using DRS ;)

With heavy car

[HoldenRT]

Wow. That really highlights just how awful the camera angles are in modern F1 coverage. I'm sure there are some cars in there, but they're so small ...

 

Not that small on a proper HD TV.  I think in those corners they are just trying to showcase the racing itself, rather than the individual cars.

[mistareno]

He overtook Ricciardo using DRS ;)

Didn't Ric's tyre start to go before they even got halfway down the straight? I couldn't be certain, but I thought Ros passed Ric because of the tyre?
He had DRS, but no real slipstream to help VMAX.

Edited by mistareno, 20 April 2016 - 08:31.

[Fademan]

Yeah, the tire went down during the previous corner, then blew just after the overtake, but it was already gone as ros went past

[Jerem]

Since I've been browsing the Sporting Regulations, I had a look at what it says about the formation lap. I've often wondered what the Mercedes cars are up to during that lap, but yesterday Ricciardo gave a whole new interpretation of the regulations by dropping back and creating a massive gap to Rosberg.

I fail to see how the following behaviour matches the regulations that state "the formation must be kept as tight as possible." (36.7)




Exactly, the rules state that "Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not." (27.4)

As far as I'm concerned these rules need to be tightened up, but at the moment they are what they are.

 

Regarding the gap on warm-up lap: usually Mercs go very slowly (sometimes ridiculously) but this time, Rosberg was on Soft and the others on Super Softs, so he was trying to put some heat in those tyres and preventing the others from saving theirs. I agree that Ricciardo is letting too much space, but is there a clearer ruling than "as tight as possible" (like there is behind SC with the 10 car lengths rule)?

 

Regarding Vettel's "off-track" overtaking: what would the tightening of the rules be exactly? That they're not allowed to put a wheel off track? Because from what I see, race stewards are already struggling to enforce the "at least a part of the car on track" - and that would also mean, never ever drive on kerbs?

[Nonesuch]

I agree that Ricciardo is letting too much space, but is there a clearer ruling than "as tight as possible" (like there is behind SC with the 10 car lengths rule)?

 
That is unfortunately as explicit as it gets for the formation lap, at least as far as the Sporting Regulations are concerned.
 

Regarding Vettel's "off-track" overtaking: what would the tightening of the rules be exactly? That they're not allowed to put a wheel off track? Because from what I see, race stewards are already struggling to enforce the "at least a part of the car on track" - and that would also mean, never ever drive on kerbs?

 

Exactly: I would like to see the regulations state that there can be no tyre outside the white lines, unless it is on the kerbs. These guys can do this in Monaco, and they should be just fine at Silverstone as well.
 
I don't think that the stewards are struggling, but they're working with the race director who believes that "Circuits are designed so that going off track should always be slower".

[Brackets]

Regarding the gap on warm-up lap: usually Mercs go very slowly (sometimes ridiculously) but this time, Rosberg was on Soft and the others on Super Softs, so he was trying to put some heat in those tyres and preventing the others from saving theirs. I agree that Ricciardo is letting too much space, but is there a clearer ruling than "as tight as possible" (like there is behind SC with the 10 car lengths rule)?

There's no solution, is there? Imagine ROS flooring it during the warm-up lap. That'll put the Manors @ 6 seconds no matter how hard they try to keep up, and that's even the 'best case scenario' where they immediately spot what's going on. Which they actually can't because no matter what, they have to wait for 20 other cars to leave first and by then ROS is very much out of sight. Of course, this is a bit of an hyperbolic scenario (no, really), but still, good luck in finding the correct wording for a rule 'that does no wrong for everybody'.

Maybe ROS was just playing a game in CHI, trying to get everybody to toast their SS's. He's the brainiac after all. Maybe RIC wasn't playing along. He's my f@$%ng hero, after all. Should he have played along? Should we give the pole-sitter an unfair advantage? Is it actually 'unfair'?

The reverse is also true. I've seen ROS sit in his pole-slot while HAM was trying to fry ROS's stationary engine still rounding the last corner, then doing practice starts on the grid, because, you know, there isn't like eleventy billion people waiting for the first add-break race to get goin'.

This is actually something that could be stopped. A line at the final corner or something where they all need to be lined up 'within x carlengths' or whatever, at the responsibility of the pole-sitter, and then they'd have to slot in on the grid within 'reasonable time and at a reasonable pace'. At least that would solve the petty games they're now playing while lining up on the grid.
 

Regarding Vettel's "off-track" overtaking: what would the tightening of the rules be exactly?

How's about "No overtaking in the pit-entry, pitlane and pit exit."?

Note the absence of 'safety car' in that rule.

Who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to allow overtaking in the pitlane during a safety car anyway!?

"Wait, under SC, all cars are dashing for new tires, right?"
- "They most certainly are, Gov"
"And there's like 3000 people in the ptilane waiting to swap them, right?"
- "Indeed there are, Gov"
"So, shall we just let them cars overtake each other under those conditions, you know, just for shits and giggles?"
- "Don’t mind if we do, Gov"
"More tea?"
- "Wouldn't mind another drop of gin, Gov"
"Now there's an idea!"
- "Sure is, Gov"

[Nonesuch]

This is actually something that could be stopped. A line at the final corner or something where they all need to be lined up 'within x carlengths' or whatever, at the responsibility of the pole-sitter, and then they'd have to slot in on the grid within 'reasonable time and at a reasonable pace'. At least that would solve the petty games they're now playing while lining up on the grid.

 

This seems like a good idea. Bunching up the field works great in all series that have a rolling start, and F1's habit of having the polesitter be stationary for long periods of time is unnecessary.

[PiperPa42]

Brackets, how are you going to avod overtaking in the pitlane? If HAM is in the first box should everybody wait after him until he is done and the next in line can go to his box?

[Brackets]

Brackets, how are you going to avoid overtaking in the pitlane?

 

Well, first, I am going to buy a Rolex. Ugly little expensive things, but first impressions are everything these days.

 

Then, I'm going to send my resume to the FIA. Via snail-mail, obviously, since I hear they don't do new media. I will be including a picture that shows the Rolex. I'm undecided wether or not I'm going to suck in the beer belly. I will make sure a Ferrari flag is visible in the background. I will pad the text with copious amounts of references to Austrian Energy Drinks.

 

Then I will swap my SLS Black Series for a Renault. Ok, maybe not.

 

Afterwards, I will…

 

oh, wait…

 

You mean in theory, right?

 

Well, your scenario isn't really 'overtaking', is it? And there are already rules against unsafe releases for safe releases. There's also the "pitbox is not part of the pitlane" thing. I really don't see an issue. (I mean as long as ALO and HAM are not in the same team)

[Jerem]

I thought there was a ruling that drivers can't slow down unnecesarily in the pit lane, because of a famous incident at Spa where Montoya called Raikkonen a f**king idiot for slowing down everyone behind him while waiting for his team mate to refuel.

 

Now if someone does it, he deserves a penalty. I guess it's fine that someone behind him overtakes him 'safely' when he's doing that.

 

Anyway, a ruling stating that all 4 wheels must stay on track except for going on kerbs would seem fine too.

[Brackets]

I thought there was a ruling that drivers can't slow down unnecesarily in the pit lane, because of a famous incident at Spa where Montoya called Raikkonen a f**king idiot for slowing down everyone behind him while waiting for his team mate to refuel.

 

Now if someone does it, he deserves a penalty. I guess it's fine that someone behind him overtakes him 'safely' when he's doing that.

 

Anyway, a ruling stating that all 4 wheels must stay on track except for going on kerbs would seem fine too.

 

There is such a rule, so I would have been inclined to agree in theory, but in practice, it's a real world out there, with fuzzy rules. What is 'too slow'? What is '(un)safe'? And because it's fuzzy, it will lead to the FIA abusing it to the betterment of Ferrari discussions.

 

Rules must be absolute. And maybe the punishment for GUI's stunt should be more harsh.

[Jerem]

 

There is such a rule, so I would have been inclined to agree in theory, but in practice, it's a real world out there, with fuzzy rules. What is 'too slow'? What is '(un)safe'? And because it's fuzzy, it will lead to the FIA abusing it to the betterment of Ferrari discussions.

 

Rules must be absolute. And maybe the punishment for GUI's stunt should be more harsh.

When they're actually inside the pit-lane (where the speed limit applies), it's quite clear: drive at the speed limit (unless there is some obstacle), and no one can overtake in the driving lane.

 

It's the part between the actual race track and the pit lane that is more questionable. For me, this should be considered as a part of the racing track - go too slow, and people can overtake you if there's enough space. I remember Alonso outbraking Massa in the corner leading to the pitlane in China a few years ago and I thought it was proper racing.

Edited by Jerem, 20 April 2016 - 12:17.

[kimister]

Did you aware this happened?   What a weekened it was. Lots of drama in and off track 

 

"Grosjean slams "idiotic" Ericsson after first corner clash" 

 

"It was the worst possible birthday," Grosjean told Canal+ after the race. "That idiotic Ericsson hit me in Turn 1 and broke my front wing.

"He saw nothing, he understood nothing, I just think he should open his eyes." 

http://www.motorspor...r-clash-687997/

 

"F1 driver Ericsson: Grosjean called me 'all sorts of words' after Chinese GP "

 

"Romain ran up to me and called me all sorts of words," Ericsson, who drives for Sauber, told the Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet. "He said that I was an idiot, I'm blind -- (Grosjean was) not behaving like a mature adult. He shouted at me, I told him to calm down but he didn't want to. Instead he went and said the same thing to journalists. I think it's immature, unprofessional and disrespectful."
"He was probably upset about a bad race, but to hear this from the driver who was suspended (in 2012) for dangerous driving, I think it's a little strange," Ericsson said.
http://autoweek.com/...fter-chinese-gp

 

"Grosjean blames ‘adrenaline’ for Ericsson attack" 

 

Grosjean admits he was simply frustrated in China, where he struggled all weekend after two consecutive points finishes in Australia and Bahrain as Haas made its F1 debut.  

“Under the influence of adrenaline, I called Ericsson a fool because I was high in the drivers’ championship and wanted to continue my momentum.

“In the past, I have had some incidents and I learned from the experience and the feedback that I received,” Grosjean added.

He said he has no doubt Haas will bounce back stronger in Russia, but former F1 driver and fellow Frenchman Franck Montagny is not so sure.

“Grosjean was clearly not at the party in China,” he told Le Point, “which after two superb performances is incomprehensible.

“It may be a problem of the pressure being too high, but that does not explain everything,” Montagny added.

http://www.thisisf1....ricsson-attack/

Edited by kimister, 20 April 2016 - 12:29.

[Nonesuch]

a famous incident at Spa where Montoya called Raikkonen a f**king idiot for slowing down everyone behind him while waiting for his team mate to refuel.

 

You have your stories mixed up. Montoya moaned about Räikkönen in 2002 during qualifying, when he was driving for Williams and Kimi was at McLaren.

 

 

Räikkönen held up the pack of cars during the race in 2005 - not in the pitlane but at the track - to give that very same Montoya the time to make his pitstop, as they were then teammates at McLaren.

 

 

[kimister]

You have your stories mixed up. Montoya moaned about Räikkönen in 2002 during qualifying, when he was driving for Williams and Kimi was at McLaren.

 

 

Räikkönen held up the pack of cars during the race in 2005 - not in the pitlane but at the track - to give that very same Montoya the time to make his pitstop, as they were then teammates at McLaren.

 

 

 

Yeah I remember this. Good thinking there from Kimi. After this specific incident actually FIA prohibited slowing the grid down on pit entry  

Edited by kimister, 20 April 2016 - 12:44.

[Jerem]

You have your stories mixed up. Montoya moaned about Räikkönen in 2002 during qualifying, when he was driving for Williams and Kimi was at McLaren.

 

 

Räikkönen held up the pack of cars during the race in 2005 - not in the pitlane but at the track - to give that very same Montoya the time to make his pitstop, as they were then teammates at McLaren.

 

 

Ah yeah you're right, my memory is a shame these days

Didn't someone get very angry at Kimi for holding the pack up though?

[Kao18]

Did you aware this happened?   What a weekened it was. Lots of drama in and off track 

 

"Grosjean slams "idiotic" Ericsson after first corner clash" 

 

"It was the worst possible birthday," Grosjean told Canal+ after the race. "That idiotic Ericsson hit me in Turn 1 and broke my front wing.

"He saw nothing, he understood nothing, I just think he should open his eyes." 

http://www.motorspor...r-clash-687997/

 

"F1 driver Ericsson: Grosjean called me 'all sorts of words' after Chinese GP "

 

"Romain ran up to me and called me all sorts of words," Ericsson, who drives for Sauber, told the Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet. "He said that I was an idiot, I'm blind -- (Grosjean was) not behaving like a mature adult. He shouted at me, I told him to calm down but he didn't want to. Instead he went and said the same thing to journalists. I think it's immature, unprofessional and disrespectful."
"He was probably upset about a bad race, but to hear this from the driver who was suspended (in 2012) for dangerous driving, I think it's a little strange," Ericsson said.
http://autoweek.com/...fter-chinese-gp

 

"Grosjean blames ‘adrenaline’ for Ericsson attack" 

 

Grosjean admits he was simply frustrated in China, where he struggled all weekend after two consecutive points finishes in Australia and Bahrain as Haas made its F1 debut.  

“Under the influence of adrenaline, I called Ericsson a fool because I was high in the drivers’ championship and wanted to continue my momentum.

“In the past, I have had some incidents and I learned from the experience and the feedback that I received,” Grosjean added.

He said he has no doubt Haas will bounce back stronger in Russia, but former F1 driver and fellow Frenchman Franck Montagny is not so sure.

“Grosjean was clearly not at the party in China,” he told Le Point, “which after two superb performances is incomprehensible.

“It may be a problem of the pressure being too high, but that does not explain everything,” Montagny added.

http://www.thisisf1....ricsson-attack/

 

Oh dear, first signs of Grosjeans' immaturity? Where are Brundle and Hill? Ah wait, he is not a teenager 

[Marklar]

This one is worth to share: reminds a lot of Hakkinen/Schumacher/Zonta and even without DRS

 

https://streamable.com/phyx?t=5.7

[Araqiel]

This one is worth to share: reminds a lot of Hakkinen/Schumacher/Zonta and even without DRS

https://streamable.com/phyx?t=5.7

Wow, that could have gone wrong very easily. Good awareness from Ericsson there, at least of where the other cars are if not the edge of the track (where he should be to avoid things like this).

[Exb]

Impressive how that (damaged) Merc can carry more speed through a much tighter line (especially when comparing to that Sauber squirming around infront). Great video!

[anyeis]

This one is worth to share: reminds a lot of Hakkinen/Schumacher/Zonta and even without DRS

 

https://streamable.com/phyx?t=5.7

 

330kph without DRS hmm

Edited by anyeis, 21 April 2016 - 20:37.

[Marklar]

330kph without DRS hmm

Was directly after the SC, so without DRS and 330 kp wasn't high either : Ricciardo reached in that race 350 kp for instance

 

 

Btw, this is one more example how bad the coverage was on sunday.

Edited by Marklar, 21 April 2016 - 20:48.

[anyeis]

Was directly after the SC, so without DRS and 330 kp wasn't high either : Ricciardo reached in that race 350 kp for instance

 

Yeah but those are with slipstream boost. In quali they did just 333kph with DRS..

 

To get 330kph with nothing.. you need full power just for the straight which they dont get in quali. The Ferrari keeping up with slipstream

Edited by anyeis, 21 April 2016 - 20:50.

[w1Y]

GrosJean must have completely forgotten his first couple of seasons in f1

[HoldenRT]

Did you aware this happened?   What a weekened it was. Lots of drama in and off track 

 

"Grosjean slams "idiotic" Ericsson after first corner clash" 

 

"It was the worst possible birthday," Grosjean told Canal+ after the race. "That idiotic Ericsson hit me in Turn 1 and broke my front wing.

"He saw nothing, he understood nothing, I just think he should open his eyes." 

http://www.motorspor...r-clash-687997/

 

"F1 driver Ericsson: Grosjean called me 'all sorts of words' after Chinese GP "

 

"Romain ran up to me and called me all sorts of words," Ericsson, who drives for Sauber, told the Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet. "He said that I was an idiot, I'm blind -- (Grosjean was) not behaving like a mature adult. He shouted at me, I told him to calm down but he didn't want to. Instead he went and said the same thing to journalists. I think it's immature, unprofessional and disrespectful."
"He was probably upset about a bad race, but to hear this from the driver who was suspended (in 2012) for dangerous driving, I think it's a little strange," Ericsson said.
http://autoweek.com/...fter-chinese-gp

 

"Grosjean blames ‘adrenaline’ for Ericsson attack" 

 

Grosjean admits he was simply frustrated in China, where he struggled all weekend after two consecutive points finishes in Australia and Bahrain as Haas made its F1 debut.  

“Under the influence of adrenaline, I called Ericsson a fool because I was high in the drivers’ championship and wanted to continue my momentum.

“In the past, I have had some incidents and I learned from the experience and the feedback that I received,” Grosjean added.

He said he has no doubt Haas will bounce back stronger in Russia, but former F1 driver and fellow Frenchman Franck Montagny is not so sure.

“Grosjean was clearly not at the party in China,” he told Le Point, “which after two superb performances is incomprehensible.

“It may be a problem of the pressure being too high, but that does not explain everything,” Montagny added.

http://www.thisisf1....ricsson-attack/

 

I remember a string of races where Romain did that to others in turn 1 a few years ago, so... it's really frustrating with these young crash happy drivers isn't it Romain?