3967 replies to this topic

[Vettelari]

IT'S THE GREAT RED BULL BATTLE YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR!

 

THE REIGNING KING OF THE WATCH POWERED CAR, SMILEY MCSMILEYPANTS HIMSELF,

DANIEL RICCIARDO

 

• Full name Daniel Ricciardo
• Birth date July 1, 1989
• Birthplace Perth, Australia
• Current age 26 years 309 days
• Current team Red Bull
• Previous teams HRT, Toro Rosso

 

 

Year Car Race Start Won Pod Class Best Pole Front Best Lap Hat Pts Pos

2011 Toro Rosso, HRT 11 11 0 0 8 18 0 0 20 0 0 0 -

2012 Toro Rosso 20 20 0 0 19 9 0 0 6 0 0 10 18

2013 Toro Rosso 19 19 0 0 15 7 0 0 5 0 0 20 14

2014 Red Bull 19 19 3 8 16 1 0 2 2 1 0 238 3

2015 Red Bull 19 19 0 2 16 2 0 1 2 3 0 92 8

2016 Red Bull 4 4 0 0 4 4 0 1 2 1 0 36 4*

Total 92 92 3 10 78 1 0 4 2 5 0 396

 

VS. THE YOUNG AND TALENTED FLYING DUTCHMAN,

MAX VERSTAPPEN

 

• Full name Max Emilian Verstappen
• Birth date September 30, 1997
• Birthplace Hasselt, Belgium
• Current age 18 years 218 days
• Relation Father - J Verstappen
• Current team Red Bull
• Previous teams Toro Rosso

Year Car Race Start Won Pod Class Best Pole Front Best Lap Hat Pts Pos

2015 Toro Rosso 19 19 0 0 14 4 0 0 6 0 0 49 12

2016 Toro Rosso 4 4 0 0 3 6 0 0 5 0 0 13 10*

Total 23 23 0 0 17 4 0 0 5 0 0 62

 

WHO WILL CRANK THAT WATCH BATTERY FASTEST?

 

WHO CAN DRINK THE MOST CANS OF RED BULL WHILE LAPPING AROUND MONACO?

 

and most importantly...

 

CAN EITHER OF THEM FROLIC AS HIGH IN THE AIR AS NICO ROSBERG?

 

 

DISCUSS IT ALL HERE!

 

 

 

[Marklar]

I guess the OP is sufficient

Edited by Marklar, 05 May 2016 - 16:34.

[Jimisgod]

You forgot the number of girlfriends statistic.

[Vettelari]

Will that do for an OP? I put some effort into it and didn't use a single emoji.

[HoldenRT]

It'll be locked soon but in the Spanish GP weekend, it can resume....

[SophieB]

Will that do for an OP? I put some effort into it and didn't use a single emoji.

Yes, it's very strong on all those criteria, Vettelari. Good stuff.

Bit weak on the 'ahead of fp1' score though! I will open it again next Wednesday, should start getting the team previews etc in to give people stuff to talk about. By all means, if either driver gives some amazing, meaty interview, someone let me know and I'll open it but really, past experience of just letting these things run without content hasn't gone well.

[SophieB]

Okay, it's the run up to the race weekend so have at it.

From previous threads, there has been way too much discussion of the fans or the thread itself which has just made things worse. Let's not do that in this one, it's all about the driving. Please treat each other's fans with respect. If there's really bad posts, please report rather than respond in kind which will probably just see you picking up a warning/suspension too.

If anyone wishes to discuss the thread now or at any time they can do so by a PM to me or any other Racing Comments moderator.

[LeoUbbergen]

great topic and it will be fun to read. 

I got the feeling that the driving style of both is quit similar. Kyvat was all a reflex type of driver as opossed to ricciardo and verstappen. Am I right?

[DeVol]

Kyvat was certainly a slower driver, that's for sure.

 

At any rate, the battle will indeed be interesting. Ricciardo has dispatched every team mate in F1 so far and tangled in vicious wheel to wheel action with Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton, gaining their considerable admiration and often besting them in the process. Beating (and often embarrassing) Vettel in 2014 was no mean feat.  

 

Verstappen is coming into the team with blistering form, a superb resume and some of the most exciting on-track moves seen in recent times, while comfortably outperforming Sainz on race day.

 

I wager Ricciardo will be champing at the bit to put Verstappen in his place, and Verstappen will be not only trying to get used to the car and team, but secretly planning to give Ricciardo a touch-up as well.

 

Can't wait. 

[Takis1]

As long as they both give a hard time to the Mercedes/Ferrari I will be satisfied.

MV can learn a lot from DR's experience to add to his natural talent.

Go RBR

[RPM40]

 

Its time everyone. 

[RPM40]

Kyvat was certainly a slower driver, that's for sure.

 

At any rate, the battle will indeed be interesting. Ricciardo has dispatched every team mate in F1 so far and tangled in vicious wheel to wheel action with Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton, gaining their considerable admiration and often besting them in the process. Beating (and often embarrassing) Vettel in 2014 was no mean feat.  

 

Verstappen is coming into the team with blistering form, a superb resume and some of the most exciting on-track moves seen in recent times, while comfortably outperforming Sainz on race day.

 

I wager Ricciardo will be champing at the bit to put Verstappen in his place, and Verstappen will be not only trying to get used to the car and team, but secretly planning to give Ricciardo a touch-up as well.

 

Can't wait. 

 

Danny Ric will need to strike while the iron is hot and take the early wins. It should be a bit of an open goal in the first few races so he can gain the confidence and momentum there. The worst case scenario will be if this new Renault engine has a chain smoking problem and both drivers lose points to reliability, obscuring the real picture.

[A3]

 so he can gain the confidence

 

 

Somehow I don't think he needs to build confidence.

[acf69]

Whether you agree with the change that was made, or whether you think Max is hyped too much or Ricciardo will soon be tracking behind Max, for sure the interest in F1 must be soaring which in itself is a good thing

[RacingXO]

This is so exiting. Both are fast and skilled racers and honestly I have no idea who will come out on top or if they will be equal. This is not about getting used to the car or preparing for 2017. This will start Friday in FP1 and both drivers want to be fastest from the get go.

 

When Q1 starts, Verstappen will have adjusted to the car just fine, because that's what racers do.

 

They only have one goal.......to beat the 'teammate'...

 

This will be so exiting

[LiftAndCoast]

They only have one goal.......to beat the 'teammate'...

This will be so exiting

Actually, no. Their main goal is to score as many points as possible for the team.

Which is not to deny that each will want to beat the other. But as professional drivers they understand the job they are paid to do.

And to fans on both sides of the fence - supporting your driver doesn't require you to denigrate the other guy. To the contrary, the better the opponent, the more impressive your driver's achievements look - win, lose or draw. So praise him at every opportunity.

P.S. Why can no-one on this forum spell "exciting"?

[A3]

Kvyat had an exiting Russian GP.

Edited by A3, 11 May 2016 - 11:47.

[lbennie]

Best driver partnership in F1.

 

This is going to get tasty.

[RacingXO]

Actually, no. Their main goal is to score as many points as possible for the team.

 

While beating your teammate, which is for every single driver the most important thing

 

We have to agree to disagree....

[Radion]

Never been more hyped about a pairing since Alo/Rai back in '14! Hope both hold up to them expectations.

[PlatenGlass]

So just to clarify - is it the Ricciardo/Verstappen battle or the reopening of this thread that has got people so excited?

[RPM40]

So just to clarify - is it the Ricciardo/Verstappen battle or the reopening of this thread that has got people so excited?

Mostly the opening of the thread, but the battle itself is exiting too

[HeadFirst]

I don't think the battle is exiting at all. The potential conflict between Dan and Max will be far too exciting to leave!

[Jimisgod]

Max better not start bitching about team orders here. Dan held station behind Kvyat when the team told him to.

[Takis1]

Team orders? I thought there were no team orders allowed.......

[Jimisgod]

Team orders? I thought there were no team orders allowed.......

 

 

There were plenty of times last year where RIC/KVY worked with each other due to different strategies.

 

As a fan of Ricciardo that's what I fear most. Max having a tantrum at some point about pulling aside when they're on different strategies and ruining a team strategy so Dan finishes behind and every one of the Max fans starts gloating about it.

 

I don't mind Max winning on pace, but history has shown he can be very fickle about following the decisions of the team. It doesn't take much more than a few laps of glory blocking when someone is on fresher tyres to lose a lot of spots.

 

RBR would probably prefer a 4th and 5th over a decision by one of the drivers in an attempt to get 3rd that disadvantages the other, who finishes 7th.

[Tony Mandara]

Well... I'm exited already!

[Kev00]

Max better not start bitching about team orders here. Dan held station behind Kvyat when the team told him to.

It is interesting when you consider how Kvyat/Ricciardo responded to team orders compared to Sainz/Verstappen. And if Verstappen does a Vettel and ignores them it will be interesting to see if they let him off like they did with Seb. Anyway, that will be some way down the line but I do expect to hear some team orders at some point this season.

[fastest]

;)

 

There were plenty of times last year where RIC/KVY worked with each other due to different strategies.

 

As a fan of Ricciardo that's what I fear most. Max having a tantrum at some point about pulling aside when they're on different strategies and ruining a team strategy so Dan finishes behind and every one of the Max fans starts gloating about it.

 

I don't mind Max winning on pace, but history has shown he can be very fickle about following the decisions of the team. It doesn't take much more than a few laps of glory blocking when someone is on fresher tyres to lose a lot of spots.

 

RBR would probably prefer a 4th and 5th over a decision by one of the drivers in an attempt to get 3rd that disadvantages the other, who finishes 7th.

 

You're talking about Sainz now. Max never blocked anyone, screwing their fresh tires in the process, he merely refused to swap position in the second to last lap of the Singapore GP. Big difference!

Edited by fastest, 11 May 2016 - 17:34.

[f1paul]

I think they will both win a race this season especially with the upgrade Red Bull will get in Canada

[Takis1]

Pick up your feet
Got to move to the trick of the beat
There is no elite
Just take your place in the driver's seat

[Jimisgod]

You're talking about Sainz now. Max never blocked anyone, screwing their fresh tires in the process, he merely refused to swap position in the second to last lap of the Singapore GP. Big difference!

 

Max disobeyed orders, doesn't matter how. That can cost positions.

 

Kvyat and Ricciardo both had exemplary team order behavior to prevent clashes. Max and Carlos have been pretty poor thus far.

[Ivanhoe]

As a fan of Ricciardo that's what I fear most. Max having a tantrum at some point about pulling aside when they're on different strategies and ruining a team strategy so Dan finishes behind and every one of the Max fans starts gloating about it.

I don't mind Max winning on pace, but history has shown he can be very fickle about following the decisions of the team.

What exactly do you mean by "history has shown"? There were never any issues with Max making room for Carlos or vice versa when they were on different strategies, in fact this happened numerous times (Carlos making more room for Max than the other way around but that's because Max was mostly the faster one on Sundays).

If your reference to history merely relates to Singapore, this was in the dying laps of a GP with both cars fighting for points and on the same strategy (Carlos tyres just one lap fresher). Let me tell you, if Verstappen would get such a team order again in a comparable situation he should ignore it again (unless Dan is fighting for WDC of course) and rightly so and I would expect Dan to do the same would it apply to him.

Any other examples of Max disobeying teamorders I missed?

Edited by Ivanhoe, 11 May 2016 - 18:22.

[HoldenRT]

When it comes to team radio I expect Max to be well behaved in the short term.  This is the senior team now and he doesn't need to be getting a reputation for being "difficult" to work with.  If he's leading the WDC or contesting race wins (builds a reputation within the team) it might be different. 

[Pauillac]

Max better not start bitching about team orders here. Dan held station behind Kvyat when the team told him to.

I think your emotions are getting the upper hand now. I appreciate your knowledge about F1, but this is getting ridiculous.

[acf69]

You are really making up stuff as you go...

 

 

;)

 

There were plenty of times last year where RIC/KVY worked with each other due to different strategies.

 

As a fan of Ricciardo that's what I fear most. Max having a tantrum at some point about pulling aside when they're on different strategies and ruining a team strategy so Dan finishes behind and every one of the Max fans starts gloating about it.

 

I don't mind Max winning on pace, but history has shown he can be very fickle about following the decisions of the team. It doesn't take much more than a few laps of glory blocking when someone is on fresher tyres to lose a lot of spots.

 

RBR would probably prefer a 4th and 5th over a decision by one of the drivers in an attempt to get 3rd that disadvantages the other, who finishes 7th.

 

So first you say history has shown that Max has a history throwing tantrums when he is on different strategies and not being a teamplayer, and that his fans will gloat about that fact.

 

You are then called out with facts that yes he disobeyed a team order, no doubt about that, but not while on different strategies and his own boss afterwards agreed with the decision not to follow team orders. Many examples exist when he and Carlos helped eachother while on different strategies.

 

 

Max disobeyed orders, doesn't matter how. That can cost positions.

 

Kvyat and Ricciardo both had exemplary team order behavior to prevent clashes. Max and Carlos have been pretty poor thus far.

 

You then basically do not engage in a discussion but use the classical, "it doesn't matter how and what the circumstances are", I am still right.

 

Try better next time

[RiccardoPatrese]

Max disobeyed orders, doesn't matter how. That can cost positions.

Kvyat and Ricciardo both had exemplary team order behavior to prevent clashes. Max and Carlos have been pretty poor thus far.

Nope he did not, Carlos did though, so get your facts straight.

Singapore was a request of Sainz but was already overruled by Franz Tost during the race (OK to go and push on Perez, push on Perez one more lap) and explained afterwards.

Australia was a team order denied by Sainz as he admitted several days later and called it a small payback for Singapore, now that's sounds mature, doesn't it?

Are we done now with this team order **** you bring up every time?

[KevD]

I'm pretty sure Max will not have a problem yielding for DR when the situation calls for it. Daniel's well known for maximising his possibilities and aknowledged as a very good driver. The situation at Toro Rosso was different because the value of Sainz as a rookie driver was uncertain.

[Kev00]

Nope he did not, Carlos did though, so get your facts straight.

Singapore was a request of Sainz but was already overruled by Franz Tost during the race (OK to go and push on Perez, push on Perez one more lap) and explained afterwards.

Australia was a team order denied by Sainz as he admitted several days later and called it a small payback for Singapore, now that's sounds mature, doesn't it?

Are we done now with this team order **** you bring up every time?

I vividly remember Max being told to let Sainz through and replying "No!"

[V8 Fireworks]

I think Dan will be a little bit faster, but if Max is faster, good on him.  Hopefully we can all just get along!   

 

 

I vividly remember Max being told to let Sainz through and replying "No!"

 

Not like 4xWDC Vettel has never done such things...  Vettel/Verstappen one day would be very exciting. Two firey racers, not prepared to back down, great stuff. 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 11 May 2016 - 18:44.

[zanquis]

I'm pretty sure Max will not have a problem yielding for DR when the situation calls for it. Daniel's well known for maximising his possibilities and aknowledged as a very good driver. The situation at Toro Rosso was different because the value of Sainz as a rookie driver was uncertain.

True, the whole reason why Max would be reluctant to let Carlos through is because history has shown that Carlos brings nothing extra. His goal is not to overtake the guy in front of Max, his goal is to be in front of Max, nothing more.

[Auzz]

Looking at some of the posts here and in the hot thread about the swap, some Ric fans are getting worried. All kinds of excuses are being posted, most about Max being favoured by RB or him being a naughty boy by dismissing orders.

Really people, take a chill pill. There it's no need for this at all. Ric is a formidable driver and I'm sure he will be fine. Like I said in a previous post; as a Ves fan I wish him the very best. He deserves that. Will Max eventually get the upperhand. I certainly hope so, but most of all I hope we will remember this as close, intense and sportsmanlike battle.

[RacingXO]

I can't even imagine how insane this thread will be after a few pages   I predict this thread will be so emotional it will be closed at some point.... We need to take a few of these:

 

[LiftAndCoast]

Awesome. Let's regurgitate the Singapore dispute from the Max v Carlos thread.

We haven't even had the first race between the new pair yet.

[Takis1]

It's getting hot in here.....

[Ivanhoe]

Max having a tantrum at some point about pulling aside when they're on different strategies and ruining a team strategy

Not true.

 
Fact is Ricciardo sacrificed position at Monaco for the team when he could have held on to 4th, Max had a tantrum when asked to do it at Singapore. There was no net benefit to the team by Ricciardo swapping back, it was all part of a gentlemans agreement..

Fact is that the team order that Max got did not include the information that Carlos would give back the position in case he failed to pass Perez.

You are comparing apples with pears here, but of course the Verstappen fans are talking crap.

[Mercstar]

Its all good getting excited over this potential battle, but what if DR blows Max away? Whilst I don't think that will be the case, I still struggle seeing Max consistently taking it to DR; One thing is for sure, its going to be fascinating to see how this plays out. 

Edited by Mercstar, 11 May 2016 - 20:20.

[HeadFirst]

I wish you guys would decide once and for all, whether or not Max disobeyed a team order. Saying that Vettel did the same thing does not make it okay, nor does saying the order was wrong.

[Ivanhoe]

I wish you guys would decide once and for all, whether or not Max disobeyed a team order. Saying that Vettel did the same thing does not make it okay, nor does saying the order was wrong.

Even the TP admitted that the team order was wrong and that Max made the right decision. What more do you possibly want?

[Kev00]

Even the TP admitted that the team order was wrong and that Max made the right decision. What more do you possibly want?

So they didn't criticise their golden boy. In the same way that Horner didn't criticise Vettel. But he was issued a team order wasn't he? And he disobeyed it didn't he?