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Re-Creating Jaguar's Quad-Cam V12 Engine


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#1 Nev

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Posted 12 May 2016 - 20:54

While we prepare our first (prototype-engined) car for its first appearance on track , I thought you might be interested to learn of a second associated project.
 
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© Neville Swales - Building The Legend - www.XJ13.eu
 
I do have an ulterior motive for posting here ....
 
Whilst I have access to a number of gifted individuals who know far more about engines than I ever will, I do know there are many fellow-enthusiasts out there who share my passion for all things Jaguar and who could usefully contribute to a project such as this. I would welcome your comments, suggestions, criticisms and guidance.
 


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#2 bigleagueslider

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 06:45

Do you really have the money needed to cover the significant cost of this project?



#3 saudoso

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 09:25

Do you really have the money needed to cover the significant cost of this project?

So it seems: http://www.xj13.eu/X...lic-Reveal.aspx



#4 Nev

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 14:59

Do you really have the money needed to cover the significant cost of this project?

 

 

Thanks for your concern bigleaugeslider but I still have one left testicle and a remaining kidney to sell so all should be fine.

 

*sigh*



#5 bigleagueslider

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 06:10

From what I read, the intention is to produce a quantity of these cylinder head kits for sale. While I understand that one set of parts was produced for the XJ-13 replica where cost was not a concern, the up-front cost for producing several sets of parts for sale to the public is a whole different problem. This would involve having huge amounts of money tied up for a long period of time.



#6 gruntguru

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 08:41

How huge? I have seen custom cylinder heads designed, cast and machined on a limited budget - and that was in the days before 3D modelling and rapid prototyping.

Edited by gruntguru, 15 May 2016 - 08:41.


#7 Canuck

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 12:13

Australia has / had a reputation as a world-wide leader in casting. Perhaps it is more accessible there.

#8 Nev

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 22:01

From what I read, the intention is to produce a quantity of these cylinder head kits for sale. While I understand that one set of parts was produced for the XJ-13 replica where cost was not a concern, the up-front cost for producing several sets of parts for sale to the public is a whole different problem. This would involve having huge amounts of money tied up for a long period of time.


Thank you for your continuing concern about my financial health but I am afraid you have missed the point. I am fully aware of the cost of such a project thank you. Technical contributions from fellow autosport enthusiasts would be appreciated however.

Any meaningful technical contributions gentlemen or have I come to the wrong forum?

#9 Canuck

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 01:14

In fairness, it's a pretty open-ended question / invitation to contribute. Putting the question of economics aside, what sort of input are you looking for? Do you intend to sand cast, pressure cast, die cast or forge? I'm afraid I didn't read your entire site so forgive me if I'm asking things you've already answered. Do you have a set completed as now? Have you done any flow modelling in CAD? Or run a 3D printed section on a flow-bench? What about re-designing the head so it can be built as machined sections (have only ever heard of that, never seen it done)?



#10 Nev

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 05:26

In fairness, it's a pretty open-ended question / invitation to contribute. Putting the question of economics aside, what sort of input are you looking for? Do you intend to sand cast, pressure cast, die cast or forge? I'm afraid I didn't read your entire site so forgive me if I'm asking things you've already answered. Do you have a set completed as now? Have you done any flow modelling in CAD? Or run a 3D printed section on a flow-bench? What about re-designing the head so it can be built as machined sections (have only ever heard of that, never seen it done)?


The intention is to sand-cast from 3D-printed patterns. Except for the offset where pistons share the same crank pin, and except for slight differences at the extreme front and rear of each head, the sections containing the combustion chambers are pretty much identical on each head. Whilst done for convenience in CAD, building up the final heads as 12 separate identical units (albeit as mirror images left-to--right) could lend itself to building up as machined sections - although I hadn't considered this. It is certainly something I will investigate - thanks.

The design is still very much "virtual" at present and very fluid. Whilst the intention is to "flow-test" within CAD and bench-test one or more 3D-printed physical single cylinders, I am at a very early stage at present and am considering optimal layouts from a purely theoretical perspective - bearing in mind my intention to remain loosely true to Jaguar's original 1950/60s basic design. I'm not looking to reinvent wheels here or end up with anything anywhere near "state of the art".

May I ask a specific question?

Because I want the heads to be able to drop straight on to the existing SOHC V12 Jaguar block, I have to accommodate four rows of head studs on each head. I had been considering small cutouts around the periphery of each head simply so I can get a spanner to them. One suggestion I had was to move the exhaust header to as close to the combustion chamber as possible with an air gap where you might expect to find a water jacket - much as you would get in some bike engines. This would greatly reduce heat transfer to coolant as well as other associated benefits. I am considering going the whole hog and, instead of simply having small cutouts on the exhaust side, have some sort of indentation and placing the exhaust header as close to the valve as possible. It should be possible to design some sort of clamp/crushable ring for the exhaust header if I were to do so.

Do you think moving the exhaust tract away from the water jacket as far as possible will be of any real benefit?

#11 Kelpiecross

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 05:38


I have to say that I am slightly confused as to what is going on. Your original posts a few years ago seemed to be about rebuilding an original Jaguar-made XJ13 - now you seem to be referring to a limited run of XJ13 replicas built for sale.
What happened to the original XJ13 that was being rebuilt? - I can find no trace of your writings on the original XJ13 rebuild?

#12 saudoso

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 10:08

The link I posted, the car is ready.


Edited by saudoso, 16 May 2016 - 10:09.


#13 Nev

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 10:31

The link I posted, the car is ready.

 

The first (prototype-engined) car is coming to the end of work to prepare it for the track. Will hopefully run it on track later this summer. As a means of contributing towards the cost of the project a (very) limited run of "customer" cars are being offered. A total of three "customer" cars are currently in build - two powered by modified 6.0 litre SOHC V12s. The third car will have the planned quad-cam recreated engine installed when it becomes available but for now is "making do" with a full-race 6.8 litre SOHC.



#14 bigleagueslider

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 04:17

The intention is to sand-cast from 3D-printed patterns.

 

Nev- I have had some development quantity aluminum sand castings using the process you described quoted by this company. They appeared to do very nice work, but it was quite expensive. I think it would cost around $2-3K per casting (including all non-recurring costs) to have them make a dozen of each cylinder head configuration. If that cost for a raw casting is within the scope of your budget, then this would seem like a viable option.



#15 Catalina Park

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 11:22

TNF member kaydee might be able to help with some advice. He is probably one of the most knowledgeable blokes when it comes to aluminium castings. Back in the 60s he did some fancy stuff for Repco.

#16 Canuck

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 12:44

For clarity, my comment about machined sections was lower-inner-top, as opposed to one-per-cylinder. Though if you have buyers, BLS's link seems much more straight-forward.

I don't know about moving the exhaust away from the water jacket. I understand the idea, but even Harley has added water cooling on their air-cooled engines, around the exhaust port. Incidentally, they also run an inserted crush gasket for the exhaust similar to what you've described. It's a wire mesh cone that seats into the cylinder head with the exhaust pipe clamped into it. The port length on those engines is very short.

Edited by Canuck, 17 May 2016 - 12:45.


#17 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 06:18

TNF member kaydee might be able to help with some advice. He is probably one of the most knowledgeable blokes when it comes to aluminium castings. Back in the 60s he did some fancy stuff for Repco.

And Clisby too.



#18 Nev

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 12:47

Thanks Gents. I'll let you know how I get on.