85 replies to this topic

[pancho]

I'm trying to find out more about Maria Teresa De Filippis, regarded by some as the best woman driver ever. Certainly she appeared the most successful - I understand she finished tenth in the 1958 Belgian GP. All I know is that she was a great friend (and Maserati team-mate) of Jean Behra. When Behra was killed, she had been slated to race a Porsche later that day at Avus, but was so distraught she quit the sport there and then. If that's the case, she seemed a great talent lost! Over to you guys...

[Stefan Ornerdal]

Elizabet Junek in the Targa Florio 193something.
Desiré Wilson won races (a race?) in the British Aurora F1 Championship.

American girl Sarah Fisher seems to be very talented.

Stefan

[Flicker]

For sure Eliska Junkova!

But...
explore ;) here:

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=14004

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=13990

[David McKinney]

In terms of F1 results, M-T de F was a Great.
By any other definition, she wasn't.
In those days anyone could buy a car and go racing, regardless of talent. There were scores of other drivers around at the time who would have done as well, and many who would have done better.

[Gil Bouffard]

In reading "In The Track Of Speed," 1957, By Stirling Moss. He considered Sheila Van Damm to be the best woman driver.

But then again, I gather that we are only talking about Formula One..

If not, I'd add Lyn St. James, in her prime.

re: Maria Teresa De Filippis.
Luigi Musso and then Jean Behra were what Frau Blucher (Hear the horses winnie?) called "My Boyfriend!*"

*For those who don't know, it was one of the many funny scenes in Mel Brooks' movie "Young Frankenstein."

Gil

[Frank de Jong]

Let's not forget the "official" best woman GP driver; Lella Lombardi finished 6th in an albeit shortened race, getting 1/2 a point for the trouble. Lucky or not, a lot of male F1 drivers never got that far (I can mention 3 Dutch F1 drivers from the 70's who never got that far ...).
Besides this, I've seen Desire Wilson race in FF2000, she did some winning and a pole position if my memory serves me right. And yes, she won an Aurora F1 race.

[SteveB2]

IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong) but 10th at Spa in 1958 was the last car running. To stay running at Spa for the duration of the race is nothing to sneeze at, but it's not as a big of a feat as it sounds when you mention that.

Wouldn't Michele Mouton's successes in WRC be the best example of a woman's success in a major racing series.

Ooops. Maybe Shirley Muldowney.

[Bernd]

Pat Moss (Stirlings sister) was a pretty spectacular rally driver. Stirling even kidded that she was better than him at it.

[404KF2]

Michèle Mouton

[Ray Bell]

KF2... you've been resurrected?

I got me a KF engine the other week, to put in my wagon...

When it comes to rallying (Stirling also said he thought women better equipped for that...) there was a couple of German girls in the M-B team of the early sixties.. can't remember the name... in the Bohringer era.

[MattFoster]

Definately Michele Mouton

[Ray Bell]

Can't find that word in the dictionary, Mr Matty....

Ewy Rosquist was one, wasn't she? One of the M-B girls, I mean...

[404KF2]

Yes Ray, I'm back.

Good on you with the KF engine; is it a KF1 or KF2 (or KF6?)?

Surely you remember Michèle Mouton - she almost won the WRC in the early 1980s, scuppered by a death in the family.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, I remember Michele Mouton, but she wasn't in a Benz, was she?

There was a lot of discussion in A Boot Full of Right Arms about the women who drove Peugeots in the London-Munich event... they were secretive and private, kept apart from the other competitors...

They were KF powered, too...

And when it comes to that, I don't know... probably from about a 1974 model, I think, but I got it out of a car it didn't belong in...

How do I tell?

[Gil Bouffard]

I know I've said this before....

I believe that there are/were two types of women in racing.

1. Those who are competitive and are racing drivers regardless of their sex. Sarah Fisher, Lyn St. James (in her prime), Lucy O'Reilly Schell, Ellen Lohr, Denise McCluggage, Camille DuGast, Madam Junek and Michele Mouton, Shiela Van Damm and Pat Moss. Drag Racers Shirley Muldowney, Angel Seeling or whatever her married name is. Ms. Seeling is certainly in a class by herself as she drag races highpowered motorcycles!

2. The other group are "Ladies," who race. They make up most of the Women's World GT Challenge field and can also be found in SCCA Amateur events. I don't think that it is necessary to name them.

I cheer for and support all of the women from group 1!

Gil

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Yes, I remember Michele Mouton, but she wasn't in a Benz, was she ?

Michele is best remembered for what she did with the Audi Quatro Rally car. Before that I vaguely recall her doing some horrific hand-brake turns at Monaco in a Renault 5. Somehow I don't think she is the sort of woman to be seriously interested in a Mercedes-Benz.


Other women that maybe deserve honourable mention (as well):

Kathy Rude (IMSA ?)
Donna Mae Mimms (SCCA)
Patty Moise (sp? From Nascar)


Lella Lombardi never got a fair shake at March.
Her English was poor, and her complaints about the car were largely ignored. I don't think that much was expected of her, she was basically "used" to get some free press for her team.

[condor]

Gil - That's a little bit bitchy - isn't it?

[Flicker]

originally posted by David McKinney
In terms of F1 results, M-T de F was a Great.

David!

Just looked through de Filippis results in F1: they are awful!


Date Event Qual Race Car Team
13.04.1958 Syracuse GP Q? 5th (- 4 laps) Maserati 250F '2507' No.?? - Maria Teresa de Filippis
18.05.1958 Monaco DNQ - Maserati 250F No.44 - Maria Teresa de Filippis
15.06.1958 Belgium Q19(last) 10th(last) (- 2 laps) Maserati 250F No.26 - Scuderia Centro-Sud
24.08.1958 Portugal Q15(last) Ret. lap 6 - withdrew Maserati 250F No.30 - Scuderia Centro-Sud
7.09.1958 Italy Q21(last) Ret. lap 58 - engine Maserati 250F No.42 - Scuderia Centro-Sud
10.05.1959 Monaco DNQ - Behra-Porsche Dr.Ing F.Porsche KG

except non-championship Syracuse GP she was the worst of the worsters!

[alessandro silva]

I remember Maria Teresa at Monza 1958 giving to me the impression of being atrociously slow. Prompted by this thread I went to refresh my memory and I found out that she was about 15" per lap off the pace. Further information shows that Lella Lombardi was comparatively (in her time) a faster driver. de Filippis was not very fast in national sportscar racing either.
I am much more impressed by four French lady drivers, besides the legendary Mrs. Junek: Michèle Mouton, already remembered here, Annie Soisbault, Marie-Claude "Beaumont" and Claudine Bouchet. All around drivers they are considered by Louche among the top 100 French drivers in a century of racing! Desirée Wilson was also pretty fast apparently.
But I wish to recall here Lia Comirato Dumas, second overall in the 1948 Mille Miglia codriving (not passenger) with her husband Alberto Comirato. If you look at the list of "second overall" in MM history you can see that she is in quite selected company. She finished also 8th overall in 1947 and 2nd in class in 1936 and was successful in national sportscar racing mainly in the 1.1 class.
Participation of lady drivers in the MM was not uncommon.

[Gil Bouffard]

Condor, I don't think it's bitchy..

Many girl racing drivers are racing drivers because they are girls.

Sarah Fisher, Ellen Lohr, Lella Lombardi, Camile DuGast, long recognized as the first woman to enter, compete and finish in an organized motor race and the rest are/were racing drivers.

Madame Du Gast entered the 1901 Paris-Berlin race. Starting 122nd in a 20HP Panhard, she finished 33rd in the 687 mile race.

Have you ever seen a Women's World GT Challenge race? They make the old jalopy races look tame.

I certainly would not put Donna Mae "Think Pink," Mimms in the same class as Patty Moise and Kathy Rude. Nor would I consider Arlene "The Rolling Chicane," Hiss.

I consider the comment made to me by Lyn St. James during one of our frequent talks a compliment when she said. "You don't ask me 'woman questions.'

Smart guy that I am, I replied. "Oh, I thought you were a racing driver."

Gil

[pancho]

Wow! Seems my first impressions of M T de F are a bit wide of the Mark!

The reason I started this thread on her came from a quote I read recently from Louis Stanley of BRM. It goes as follows;

'I burn my boats and declare that de Filippis was the best female driver in Formula One that I have seen. She had in abundance all the attributes of a great competitor and was the first woman to appear at this level'

Clearly those remarks were made way before the likes of Lella Lombardi and Michelle Mouton, but still it contradicts the evidence presented in the replies we've seen here! Very strange.

[Gil Bouffard]

In many cases "Big Lou," couldn't see past his nose! While his heart may have been in the right place, he was no Tony Vandervell!

He spent his wife's (Owen's sister) money to turn BRM from a world beater into an egg beater.

He did, however, develop and finance The Grand Prix Medical Unit. The first attempt to provide on site emergency medical assistance to racing teams and drivers.

Gil

[David McKinney]

Of course Lella Lombardi was comparatively faster than Maria-Teresa de Filippis - she wasn't in a four-year-old car!
Having been the first one to rubbish Maria-Teresa on this thread, I feel I should now change sides and defend her....
After starting racing in the 750 class of Italian sportscar events in 1949, she was getting good results at national level by 1953/54, winning the highly competitive 1100cc class in several events with an OSCA. In 1955, driving a 2-litre sports Maserati, she was a worthy second in the Pergusa race and fourth in class in the world championship Targa Florio. OK, not fantastic, but not too bad either.
As far as her F1 record in 1958 is concerned, what could anyone do with a four-year-old car against the latest from Vanwall, Ferrari, BRM and those pesky little Cooper and Lotus things?
A more detailed study of her 1958 F1 races puts her in a slightly better light than the results show. Ten 250Fs practised at Syracuse and she was faster than three of them, and beat one in the race. Twelve optimists attempted to qualify 250Fs at Monaco, and she was sixth fastest among them, though only the two fastest - both in 1957 cars - started. She was faster than one other 250F in practice at both Spa and, in a borrowed car, in Portugal.
Her best showing came in the Italian GP. In spite of her lowly starting position she was in the top ten places by half-distance, and was actually in fifth when her engine broke on lap 57, thirteen laps from home. She may not have been very fast, she may have got that high in the running order largely by attrition, but she could have been the first woman driver to earn points.
On balance she was probably not as good as - for example - Scarlatti, whose place on the 1957 works team could not have been said to be thoroughly deserved.
In spite of Flicker's listing, incidentally, she always entered in her own name; the exception was Portugal, where she crashed her car in practice and was lent a Centro-Sud car for the race.

[Jeroen Brink]

Probably not the best, but she made at least a determined impression: Divina Galica. I believe it was in the Aurora F1-series in the late Seventies.

[Chris Bloom]

Cathy Muller. Frequent top six finisher in 1985 British F3 series, IIRC it was quite a competitive field that year.

Does anyone know what happened to her after that? I thought she was quite cute:)

Chris

[Ray Bell]

There was some speed in Sue Ransom, if I can enter this debate, and I did see Lella Lombardi dicing with Max Stewart at Oran Park...

She did run F2 once, but not in a competitive atmosphere, then gave it all up for a life of drag racing in the States.

One night, at home with husband Bill Brown (the one famous for rolling Falcons at Bathurst, but IMNSHO somewhat underrated anyway), she was talking about wanting Grace Brothers or someone to buy her a Formula 2 (Australian F2 that is) for the very vibrant F2 series that was on at the time...

And she was lamenting that they would only give her a Formula Ford...

Bill casually chimed in: "But that's not enough of a pose for you, is it?"

I saw her about three years ago for the first time in about 15, she'd returned from America and was working with CAMS... don't know what she's doing now... I gather she hasn't been a part of Bill's life for many years.

[Rob29]

Cathy Muller did F3000 in '86.I remember her in a pink & white Lola at Pau.She then tried Indy Lights-came 4th at Long Beach. Returned to French F3 to win at Albi. I last saw her at Pau '92 in a Peugeot sports car series. Last heard of in ice racing a couple of years ago.

[jarama]

and what do you think about Giovanna Amatti's performances?

[Rob29]

Which ones jarama? Her attempts to qualify the hopeless Brabham F1 in '92 have alredy been discussed I think. She was certainly competitive in Formula Fiat?,Italian F3,& Euro F3000. A few drives in World Sportscars since are inconclusive. Has not raced at all since '99 so far as I can trace.

[drivers71]

Originally posted by Chris Bloom
Cathy Muller. Frequent top six finisher in 1985 British F3 series, IIRC it was quite a competitive field that year.

Does anyone know what happened to her after that? I thought she was quite cute:)

Chris

Chris
Your comments regarding Cathy Muller are understated.

Cathy finished 16th in the 1990 American Racing Series, driving for McNeill Motorsports and Stuart Moore Racing. (Paul Tracy won that series; Justin Bell was 15th) I believe this was her last competetive season.
She is now Team and Commercial Manger for the French Exagon Engineering team, who run Seats in the WTCC. Previously known for running a Dodge Viper for Alain Prost.
(Exagon are not the French branch of Exagon of Igate, unfortunately!)

[bill patterson]

Desire Wilson never fails to impress at the Goodwood Revival - she should have been in F1.

Claudia Hurtgen is another name to consider.

[zakeriath]

Im suprised nobody mentions Danica Patrick, she had the balls to come over to the UK as a young girl on her own, and the go on to win an IRL race. No other woman driver has won any major single seater series race. Besides with a bit of airbrushing she looks hot in a bikini.

[Lifew12]

Oddly i'm in the process of reading 'Atalanta - Women as Racing Drivers' by SCH Davies; interesting stuff.

[potmotr]

Ellen Lohr was pretty handy in her day.

[tomkatf]

Sabine Schmitz... 'Ringmeister extraordinare, winner of several 24hr touring car races at Nurburgring and proprietor of the BMW Ring Taxi. Some great videos on Youtube. Like lapping at a little over 10min in a Ford Transit Van...

Sabine's Transit...

Best,
Tom

[LotusElise]

Originally posted by bill patterson
Desire Wilson never fails to impress at the Goodwood Revival - she should have been in F1.

Claudia Hurtgen is another name to consider.

Desire should have been a contender, given the right car. Her one F1 DNF was because her usual car was changed at the last minute for a bodged-together thing by RAM Racing. She did win an Aurora F1 race at Brands and was in the top three on other occasions.

Claudia Hurtgen does deserve a mention - she has won several domestic tin-top championships and the GT2 class of the ALMS (correct me if I'm wrong; my folders with all my info in are underneath a stack of university books at the moment.) However, her performances in the ETCC hve not been brilliant, for one reason or another.

The late Gilberte Thirion was a great all-rounder in her day, who excelled at endurance events of the race and rally variety, in cars as diverse as a Gmund Porsche 356 and a Renault Dauphine.

Also, what about Jutta Kleinschmidt? Winning the Dakar isn't easy.

[Lotus23]

imho, Shirley Muldowney had the Right Stuff, at least in quarter-mile increments. (I don't believe she ever tried her hand at anything other than drag racing.) I do know she detested the nickname "Cha-Cha".

And I've long admired what Denise McLuggage accomplished in An Earlier Time.

While many of my peers dismiss Danica Patrick as little more than a pretty face, I think she's a tough and determined driver who's destined for more open-wheel wins. I don't think Andretti-Green chose her just because she's cute.

Going back a few years, how many here recall SCCA racer Donna Mae Mims ("Think Pink!"); istr she qualified for the SCCA Runoffs at least once. Not that I'd hold her in the same esteemed company as SM, DMcL or DP, however.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Lotus23
And I've long admired what Denise McLuggage accomplished in An Earlier Time.

Wow, what a name!!!

Please, please post a picture of the lady and stop me being a fool...!

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by MCS


Wow, what a name!!!

Please, please post a picture of the lady and stop me being a fool...!

Try google her, she is a very accomplished lady.

[Tim Murray]

Jerry Entin posted a couple of photos with Denise in them, on the Charlie Kolb thread. Start here and then scroll down for a close-up.

[RStock]

I would have to agree that Danica Patrick deserves at least an honorable mention , though with her career in mid-swing I suppose we should wait to pass final judgment .

And as all such "who is the best " lists , I think you can't determine who actually is , but merely make a list of those who were very good .

I'd say Marisa Teresa de Filippis deserves to be on that list . She was better in sportscars from what I've read . It might be a bit unfair to judge her by her F-1 finishes alone .

And Madame Junek is often said to have been rather good in her time . I believe it was the death of her husband that caused her to withdraw from competition .

Lynn St. James is another who deserves to be mentioned , I'd say she was one of the better women racers of late .

And of course Desire Wilson was talented , winning the Aurora race was no small feat .

Shirley Muldowney belongs on the list also . She rose above being a "woman racer" to become a "racer" , in a less enlightened time .

And I'd personally rate Lella Lombardi towards the top . She was in inferior equipment in F-1 , so judging by that alone would be unfair also . She did quite well in touring cars and formula ford , winning races and a championship .

And "The Queen of the Ring" Sabine Schmitz can get around the toughest track ever with the best of them .


There are quite a few more who I'm sure I'll be remiss in mentioning , but the most glaring ommission to me so far would have to be "The Bugatti Queen" Helene Delangle , or Helle Nice . She was quite good in her time and may have competed at the top level longer than many others . I don't believe she ever won a race , other than perhaps an all woman competiton , but she had quite a few good finishes and was a fierce competitor . She deserved better that her eventual fate , dying a forgotten person , shunned by the racing community , and family also .

[mikeC]

Since non-racing ladies - Pat Moss, Ewe Rosquith, Shiela van Damm - have got a look in on this thread, how about adding Patsy Burt? Definitely worth watching up Shelsley Walsh!

[Bloggsworth]

Desire Wilson won 2 rounds of the World Sports Car Championship as a privateer entrant in Alain de Cadenet's car, she was/is a top notch driver.

[David M. Kane]

Redarmysoja:

I read the Helene Nice book and she was impressive. I raced against Divina Galica and she is amazing, just ask Bobby Brown. He was stunned at how good she is even today in a Historic F2 or F1. I've seen Desiree Wilson, but I heard a lot about her. Danica is ok compared to this group; but Michelle Mouton was IMO simply awesome!

[RStock]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Redarmysoja:

I read the Helene Nice book and she was impressive. I raced against Divina Galica and she is amazing, just ask Bobby Brown. He was stunned at how good she is even today in a Historic F2 or F1. I've seen Desiree Wilson, but I heard a lot about her. Danica is ok compared to this group; but Michelle Mouton was IMO simply awesome!

I don't think Helene Delangle gets enough credit for being a true competitor . Lois Chiron really sank her boat at Monaco with his accusations , maybe he had his reasons , but I haven't seen anything to back it up . It even hurt her with her family .


Davina Galica was one I didn't mention and probably should have . There's actually been quite a few good women drivers over the years . Seems like more in the past than today .

Michelle Mouton is one I'm not familiar with , though I've heard of her . Was she a rally driver ?

[coupekarter]

The most talented, fastest female racer of all was unquestionably Lorraine Peck. From raw novice, to being the UK's top junior karter in 9 months, finishing runner-up in the Junior World Karting Championship in just 15 months was incredible. Had she lived, she would have been in F1 for sure. Ask the guy that Senna said was the best he ever raced against - Terry Fullerton, I'm sure he would back me up on this.

[David M. Kane]

Michelle Mouton was a Rally Driver, I bet their are some videos on You Tube.

[Odseybod]

Honourable mention please for saloon car racer Christabel Carlisle, who did spectacular things with Minis during the '60s.

On the subject of pink, we shouldn't forget that the very lovely Barbara Cartland raced at Brooklands (well, perhaps 'drove in competition on the Track' might be more accurate).

[David M. Kane]

Donnie Mae Mimms regular pounded the boys here in the States.

Michelle Mouton...

[watkins]

Originally posted by Lotus23

Going back a few years, how many here recall SCCA racer Donna Mae Mims ("Think Pink!"); istr she qualified for the SCCA Runoffs at least once.

This is Donna Mae Mims at Watkins Glen in 1966 entering (or exiting) the Tech Center. In 1963 she became the first woman to win a SCCA national championship driving her HP Sprite.
(Sorry about the photo quality. The 1960's were my Kodak "instamatic" years).