4007 replies to this topic

[Disgrace]

Part I. Arrivabene on Barcelona:

 

We must be realistic and accept the fact that, if both Mercedes had been in the race, the result would have been different. Today we had an opportunity and we failed to take advantage. Even if on track we had a fast car we had to pay a hefty price for the problems we experienced in qualifying and which, on some parts of the circuit, re-surfaced during the course of the race. Now we must address these issues and move on from there.

 

[Razoola]

I hate to say it but I am of the opinion that by the end of the season the SF16-H will be the 3rd fastest car on the grid. I think where they lack is in relation to tyre setup/understanding. I am not sure why in P1 Ferrari went straight onto the soft. It seems to me they want their car close to a soft tyre baseline while the others base on the medium which has a wider working window.

[VolvoT5]

Qualifying was a disaster but I was more pleased with the race pace.  It was clear Ferrari were faster than Red Bull quite significantly but tracks like Spain & Monaco do not suit overtaking unless there is a huge performance difference. 

 

I still think Ferrari are stuck in a no man's land -  Mercedes beat them on the engine and Red Bull beat them on the chassis side of it.   Ferrari have a bit up hill task to both catch Mercedes and defend from the Red Bull which will have a power increase soon.  

[Exumer]

Great race and both our drivers did a good job. Happy with Kimi's performance this year and Seb is fast as usual.

 

The car is good and they are keep working on it and bringing new parts that seem to work and it is good.

 

What's not good is that the team stopped doing their best on the race operations side. Last year, even though our car wasn't the fastest we maximised our chances almost every race and made good strategy calls. That's why we won 3 times last year.

 

This year is the opposite of the last year. Car still looks to me as 2nd fastest but when it matters, the team makes a wrong call. Seems that they broke something that was working last year.

 

Hard to say what changed. First reaction is to point finger on Jock Clear but I still think that we need to give him time to settle down. Having said that the fact that all those problems come to play since his arrival make this coincidence hard to swallow. This race it's a perfect example. Why didn't they perform an undercut? Why didn't even try with one of our cars? If you want to win then you have to take a risk.

 

What team needs to do is to keep pushing. I hope that upgrades will keep working and the coming PU upgrade in Canada will help too. Otherwise RB is not that far away. Last year the gap between us and the 3rd team was much bigger. 

Edited by Exumer, 16 May 2016 - 07:55.

[Exumer]

I'm also wondering, were those problems with mediums that Seb had at the last stint not only because of issues with setup but also because Ferrari are not so confident in mediums than other teams? During winter tests Mercedes 95% of the time run on medium compound for example. In Australia Ferrari didn't put mediums and openly admitted that they didn't know those tyres well enough. Seems like car is more optimised for Soft/Supersoft than medium.

[Marklar]

Jon Noble ‏@NobleF1  3m3 minutes agoSpain

Ferrari plans crucial quali sim tests with Vettel at Barcelona to get on top of troubles http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-drafts-vettel-for-crucial-barcelona-f1-test-737313/ …

[TomNokoe]

All of the next tracks will surely be good for this car. I think a track like Silverstone or Hockenheim is almost made for this car. With Red Bull's emergence, they have a huge fight in the WCC but I think there's every chance they can mix it in the WDC once they get on top of everything.

[Ijsman]

What frustrates me the most is that Ferrari's form seems to fluctuate the most over a single weekend compared to other teams. It always seems to dip spectacularly in quali though, so it must be a good move to focus on that in the next test.  Hope they can get enough tires though.

[Enzoluis]

All of the next tracks will surely be good for this car. I think a track like Silverstone or Hockenheim is almost made for this car. With Red Bull's emergence, they have a huge fight in the WCC but I think there's every chance they can mix it in the WDC once they get on top of everything.

 

 

If Ferrari do not fix the lack of traction RB will make a party of them after the hairpin and in the exit of the motodrome at Hockenheim.

[AlexS]

Precisely.

[Exb]

Jon Noble ‏@NobleF1 3m3 minutes agoSpain

Ferrari plans crucial quali sim tests with Vettel at Barcelona to get on top of troubles http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-drafts-vettel-for-crucial-barcelona-f1-test-737313/…

Interestingly on the Tuesday when the weather forecast is distinctly cooler (18 and cloudy) than it was over the weekend, or indeed the Wednesday (22 and sunny) looks to be. Wonder if they can replicate the issues on a cooler track?

[Niceman]

All of the next tracks will surely be good for this car. I think a track like Silverstone or Hockenheim is almost made for this car. With Red Bull's emergence, they have a huge fight in the WCC but I think there's every chance they can mix it in the WDC once they get on top of everything.

 

Yes, this is what the team has said and the reason for the optimism going into Spain.  They have stuff to iron out but they have a lot of scope for improvement with the engine and the car.

[JRodrigues]

Is James Allison back? I haven't seen much of him (or nothing at all to be precise).

Edited by JRodrigues, 16 May 2016 - 15:40.

[ferkan]

Is James Allison back? I haven't seen much of him (or nothing at all to be precise).

Yes he is, since late last month it was reported.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

Well, let's hope this test has the same effect the 2013 Merc-Pirelli secret tyre test had.

 

We need to understand all the issues with the car so we don't see any more quali mishaps like we had on Saturday.

 

Still pissed that we didn't win that race, as that was a golden opportunity for us.

[ferkan]

Good thing team is aggressively trying to get back on top of these issues. I remember Domenicieli era very well, and I what I remember mostly about is a denial so its a step in the right direction.

Edited by ferkan, 16 May 2016 - 16:09.

[Seanspeed]

What frustrates me the most is that Ferrari's form seems to fluctuate the most over a single weekend compared to other teams. 

We've been 2nd fastest every weekend by a comfortable margin.  Only exception has been qualifying last Saturday.  

 

Every team other than Mercedes has had far bigger fluctuations so far.

 

I dont know why people are freaking out about Red Bull so much, either.  We were half a second faster than them at a track that was supposed to be their 'ideal' sort of track.  We've got their number folks.  

Edited by Seanspeed, 16 May 2016 - 17:32.

[MasterOfCoin]

We've been 2nd fastest every weekend by a comfortable margin.  Only exception has been qualifying last Saturday.  

 

Every team other than Mercedes has had far bigger fluctuations so far.

 

I dont know why people are freaking out about Red Bull so much, either.  We were half a second faster than them at a track that was supposed to be their 'ideal' sort of track.  We've got their number folks.  

I think it's natural to feel a little apprehensive after Barcelona, and with Monaco coming up RBR will be strong again.

[ConsiderAndGo]

I think this test will be very important for Ferrari. They need to find the sweet spot with the car whilst trying to figure out, and fix, the tire temp problems. If they understand why what happened in qualifying happened, they should be strong. The race pace was fantastic.

[nemanja]

I think it's natural to feel a little apprehensive after Barcelona, and with Monaco coming up RBR will be strong again.

So you think RBR will be faster than Ferrari in Monaco...?!

[ferkan]

I think this test will be very important for Ferrari. They need to find the sweet spot with the car whilst trying to figure out, and fix, the tire temp problems. If they understand why what happened in qualifying happened, they should be strong. The race pace was fantastic.

Only first 2 sectors. Even in 2nd sector faster then RB, which is aero heavy, but S3 very bad in Q and race unfortunatelly.

[Ijsman]

We've been 2nd fastest every weekend by a comfortable margin.  Only exception has been qualifying last Saturday.  

 

Every team other than Mercedes has had far bigger fluctuations so far.

 

I dont know why people are freaking out about Red Bull so much, either.  We were half a second faster than them at a track that was supposed to be their 'ideal' sort of track.  We've got their number folks.  

If true, then I'm wrong thanks for correcting. But isn't it a big fluctuation at FP3 being one tenth off the first merc, and in qualifying 1.5 seconds? That's a HUGE fluctuation in my perspective, and that within 3 hours of the same day.

[MasterOfCoin]

So you think RBR will be faster than Ferrari in Monaco...?!

The odds are good for RBR being very close to Ferrari in Monaco, the times are gonna be tight.

[Group B]

Great race and both our drivers did a good job. Happy with Kimi's performance this year and Seb is fast as usual.

 

The car is good and they are keep working on it and bringing new parts that seem to work and it is good.

 

What's not good is that the team stopped doing their best on the race operations side. Last year, even though our car wasn't the fastest we maximised our chances almost every race and made good strategy calls. That's why we won 3 times last year.

 

This year is the opposite of the last year. Car still looks to me as 2nd fastest but when it matters, the team makes a wrong call. Seems that they broke something that was working last year.

 

Hard to say what changed. First reaction is to point finger on Jock Clear but I still think that we need to give him time to settle down. Having said that the fact that all those problems come to play since his arrival make this coincidence hard to swallow. This race it's a perfect example. Why didn't they perform an undercut? Why didn't even try with one of our cars? If you want to win then you have to take a risk.

 

What team needs to do is to keep pushing. I hope that upgrades will keep working and the coming PU upgrade in Canada will help too. Otherwise RB is not that far away. Last year the gap between us and the 3rd team was much bigger. 

 

Yeah, there's no denying that this year seems to be all about getting the least possible number of points with the machinery available. Luck, strategy, weather, whatever, but they need to start sharpening up one way or another, else this 'potential' will never be realised.

[LiftAndCoast]

The odds are good for RBR being very close to Ferrari in Monaco, the times are gonna be tight.

Exactly. Ferrari's weakness at Barcelona was S3, which is very Monaco-esque.

It will be a great battle between the Bulls and the Prancing Horses on the Saturday, which is when the race is usually won and lost. Heck, don't discount Ricciardo giving the Merc a run for their money, he has been absolutely on it around that track for the last couple of years.

[ferkan]

Intersting that Ferrari was faster in Monaco last year then RB. Yes, engine difference was bigger, but sure chassis one was.

[AlexS]

Monaco also depends on tires. Ultrasoft isn't it?

[LiftAndCoast]

Monaco also depends on tires. Ultrasoft isn't it?

Yes, Pirelli is bring the US, SS & S tyres. So qualify on US, change to SS at the only stop and go to the end. If there's doubt about the SS lasting that long, then US/S will be the strategy.

[ferkan]

Monaco also depends on tires. Ultrasoft isn't it?

Yes. It also depends on what the problem was for Ferrari in S3 in Q and race and if that can be rectified.

In Australia S3 and Sochi S3 Ferrari was still faster then any other car bar Merc (as well as in every FP in barcelona).

I would trust Maurizio when he says Ferrari has no issues with low speed corners.

[Seanspeed]

If true, then I'm wrong thanks for correcting. But isn't it a big fluctuation at FP3 being one tenth off the first merc, and in qualifying 1.5 seconds? That's a HUGE fluctuation in my perspective, and that within 3 hours of the same day.

Oh no doubt that the 'fluctuation' we saw in Barcelona was huge.  But it was abnormal.  It was not part of any pattern whatsoever.  If we'd been up and down throughout the rest of the season like that, sure, I'd be with you saying the same thing.  But we haven't at all.  We've consistently been super competitive and downright dominant over the whole field barring Mercedes outside that one session. 

[Seanspeed]

Intersting that Ferrari was faster in Monaco last year then RB. Yes, engine difference was bigger, but sure chassis one was.

As others have talked about before, Monaco requires a whole different setup philosophy, plus there's different tire choices.  While being good in S3 at Barcelona is a sign of having the traction you need at Monaco, it does not guarantee you an advantage over a potential competitor.  Monaco is its own unique beast and like Canada, it's a track that Ferrari seem to continually do well at despite never having the 'on-paper' requisites for success.  

 

I certainly expect Red Bull to be strong again there, but I'm in no way thinking we're doomed just because of S3 at Barcelona.  Especially since we were still running compromised.  

[BJHF1]

I would agree that Monaco is its own beast especially in terms of setup.

Monaco really has no high speed corners, so it's not so much of a compromise in terms of suspensions setup, unlike in Barcelona where you have to deal with many high speed corners, where a stable/stiff platform is needed for aero.

[Pyrone89]

I can see why the team would want Aldo Costa (suspension specialist, now at Mercedes) back.

[Ijsman]

Oh no doubt that the 'fluctuation' we saw in Barcelona was huge.  But it was abnormal.  It was not part of any pattern whatsoever.  If we'd been up and down throughout the rest of the season like that, sure, I'd be with you saying the same thing.  But we haven't at all.  We've consistently been super competitive and downright dominant over the whole field barring Mercedes outside that one session. 

That's true. We had the rest of the field covered minus the spain quali, sure. I meant, just compared to merc there's quite a few fluctuations in the laptime difference between us and merc this season. Part of it is down to them (more quali boost etc), part is down to us (trouble adjusting to temps and surfaces etc).

[Raikkonen94]

Yes, Pirelli is bring the US, SS & S tyres. So qualify on US, change to SS at the only stop and go to the end. If there's doubt about the SS lasting that long, then US/S will be the strategy.

 

And a lot of teams will probably take a gamble with US/SS if there's even a chance that the SS can make it, you won't be overtaken anyway in Monaco.

[cokata]

One positive to take out of this weekend is that engine performance finally is looking strong, the gap to Merc is probably as small as it was at the end of last season, if not even smaller. Looking at how close RB was to Merc in Q and how we were clearly quicker than them in the race (given that RB actually seems to race better compared to Merc than over one lap) i think if we had a good Q without any issues we would have been 3-4 tenths behind the Merc's pole time with as quick if not quicker S1 and S2, with all the deficit coming from S3.

[Scuferrari]

Has Ferrari shortened or lenghtened the wheel base for this years car? If the second ...we might have a problem at Monaco and other street circuits.

[sopa]

I still assume that on majority of circuits Ferrari is bound to be ahead during the rest of the season. Probably Red Bull's aerodynamics are really good, which worked them a treat at Barcelona.

 

If Ferrari doesn't have an edge in the majority of race weekends over RBR, it would be a major let-down considering they almost certainly have an edge in the PU.

[Jovanotti]

And a lot of teams will probably take a gamble with US/SS if there's even a chance that the SS can make it, you won't be overtaken anyway in Monaco.

I read somewhere that the US is infact more like last year's SS, so durability won't be an issue (apart from sliding due to warm-up problems I guess...).

[Raikkonen94]

I read somewhere that the US is infact more like last year's SS, so durability won't be an issue (apart from sliding due to warm-up problems I guess...).

Oh really? Well in that case almost nothing's gonna change compared to last year in terms of tyres..

[ferkan]

Has Ferrari shortened or lenghtened the wheel base for this years car? If the second ...we might have a problem at Monaco and other street circuits.

Shortened. RB is extra short though. Merc slightly longer, Mclaren and STR lnger by all excluding Manor and Sauber.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Interesting they aren't running the monkey seat today, You'd have thought that'd want to test the exact car config they had on Saturday, to find out why they were so rubbish.

[RECKLESS]

Ferrari was pretty good in Monaco even in 2014 with the godawful F14T.

IIRC Kimi was running third before the safety car incident and retirement.

So who knows what will go down...

[ConsiderAndGo]

Ferrari was pretty good in Monaco even in 2014 with the godawful F14T.

IIRC Kimi was running third before the safety car incident and retirement.

So who knows what will go down...

 

Chilton hit him, giving him a puncture. It ruined his race.

[Music Lover]

We've been 2nd fastest every weekend by a comfortable margin.  Only exception has been qualifying last Saturday.  

 

Every team other than Mercedes has had far bigger fluctuations so far.

 

I dont know why people are freaking out about Red Bull so much, either.  We were half a second faster than them at a track that was supposed to be their 'ideal' sort of track.  We've got their number folks.  

Agree, but when they get the new engine? RB talking about 0.5s faster...

[LiftAndCoast]

I read somewhere that the US is infact more like last year's SS, so durability won't be an issue (apart from sliding due to warm-up problems I guess...).

It's like the 2013 (pre-hybrid) Super Soft. Pirelli made the tyres a step harder in 2014 to cope with the extra torque of the new PUs.

[ferkan]

So Vettel says they have tried some things in morning to fix the issue...by getting rid of rear downforce it seems. They were runnign with no MS, now they are in GP config in afternoon.

[Vesuvius]

Agree, but when they get the new engine? RB talking about 0.5s faster...

People seem to forget that Ferrari will also get engine( or PU) update for Montreal. But yeah RBR is a big threat they have the best chassis.

[ConsiderAndGo]

People seem to forget that Ferrari will also get engine( or PU) update for Montreal. But yeah RBR is a big threat they have the best chassis.

 

What garbage. Where is the evidence? Merc have a chassis far superior to RB.

 

Ferrari/RB are very close on the chassis side of things. (From what we can see)

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 17 May 2016 - 13:17.

[HoldenRT]

If Vettel going to freak out and lose his spirit if he finds himself starting to finish behind Redbull on a regular basis.  His comments post race have been talking about "having Redbull covered" and in some ways I see his point.  It's a similar discussion on this last page.

 

But Redbull were very close either way.  Faster in qualifying, marginally slower in the race.  Now we go to one of Redbull's strongest tracks.  Could still be close, Ferrari might even finish ahead.

Then we go to Canada but everyone seems to be forgetting about the engine update.  Vettel seems to be in denial about the engine update.  It might prove unreliable, it might not even deliver that much.  But it doesn't need to, given how close they already are.

 

I'm not even saying it's going to happen.. but IF.. it does.. and Ferrari start regularly finishing behind the Redbulls (now that they have a very very strong driver pairing).. I can see him losing some morale (and getting the shits basically) similar to Alonso in his last years at Ferrari.  It's been a looming possibility ever since China.. and it might not happen.. but after every month it starts to become a possibility that Redbull can start challenging Mercedes more instead of Ferrari.  It wouldn't surprise me if Redbull are consistently ahead of them in the second half of the year.  And Vettel (in the last few days) seems oblivious to it.