4911 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Part I: http://forums.autosp...of-the-rivalry/

 

Carry on!

[PAGATRON]

You should have added '...Yes these two again'

[TomNokoe]

THE CONTINUATION OF THE RIVALRY

[LiftAndCoast]

Could the creation of the new thread mark a turning point in HAM's season?

[BuddyHolly]

Could the creation of the new thread mark a turning point in HAM's season?

No.  But!  I put £5 on Nico to win this morning so I'm now expecting Lewis to win (going off my other failed bet on the last race. lol)

 

When uhm.. *if* he wins, I expect a thank you

[f1paul]

How many parts will there be this year? My guess is 5

[sennafan24]

How many parts will there be this year? My guess is 5

5 incredible chapters of drama, passion and witty banter. Bit like the Rocky series.

 

"get up ya bum, because sennafan loves you"

[MasterOfCoin]

5 incredible chapters of drama, passion and witty banter. Bit like the Rocky series.

 

"get up ya bum, because sennafan loves you"

There might even be a 6th like the movie "Creed"....where Lewis has a kid and he races.

[FrontWing]

There might even be a 6th like the movie "Creed"....where Lewis has a kid and he races.

The season so far feels like Rocky 4, where Creed is killed by the blonde haired, blue eyed Drago.

[sennafan24]

This summed up Spain

 

[jonpollak]

oh jeeezus....

Jp

[TokyoF1]

[sennafan24]

oh jeeezus....

Jp

Oh gawd

 

SF24

[TomNokoe]

[Nemo1965]

I was wondering... suppose Rosberg drives in front of Lewis in the race... and does not swerve like he did in Barca... but Lewis tries an ambitious overtake and AGAIN they end up in the barriers. Would that have repercussions? Would then Toto say: 'Enough is enough. Hold station if anyone's in front'?

 

Yes, yes, I know, this board would explode.

[Ross Stonefeld]

The season so far feels like Rocky 4, where Creed is killed by the blonde haired, blue eyed Drago.

 

Woah, spoiler alert 

[P123]

This summed up Spain
 

LOL. Not far off!

[sennafan24]

Woah, spoiler alert 

Don't worry about Rocky 5 being spoilt, it isn't up to much. 

Edited by sennafan24, 24 May 2016 - 18:41.

[P123]

Probably better questions than the stale F1 press junket mob will manage to muster over the weekend.

[sennafan24]

I was wondering... suppose Rosberg drives in front of Lewis in the race... and does not swerve like he did in Barca... but Lewis tries an ambitious overtake and AGAIN they end up in the barriers. Would that have repercussions? 

I would suspect that if we see a repeat of Spain this weekend, the driver held culpable would be stood down for a race. Perhaps by the FIA, with the full agreement of the team. Team policy would probably change from then on, and one of them would end up leaving at the end of the year. 

[TomNokoe]

I was wondering... suppose Rosberg drives in front of Lewis in the race... and does not swerve like he did in Barca... but Lewis tries an ambitious overtake and AGAIN they end up in the barriers. Would that have repercussions? Would then Toto say: 'Enough is enough. Hold station if anyone's in front'?

Yes, yes, I know, this board would explode.

I think the Spain contact has opened up a small Pandora's box. I can't help but think if either of them are leading and the man behind makes an overtaking attempt, they can simply force contact to ensure it doesn't come off. It will seem like a racing incident and the driver behind will probably be chastised for a dive bomb. (This weekend only)

I think too that it is now abundantly clear that Rosberg has little to lose if there is contact. He can be very aggressive this weekend.

Regardless of internal policies, I think they've got one more big collision in them before excrement is thrown towards a ceiling fan in the debrief room.

Edited by TomNokoe, 24 May 2016 - 18:46.

[jonpollak]

Oh gawd

 

SF24

Jp

[AustinF1]

I was wondering... suppose Rosberg drives in front of Lewis in the race... and does not swerve like he did in Barca... but Lewis tries an ambitious overtake and AGAIN they end up in the barriers. Would that have repercussions? Would then Toto say: 'Enough is enough. Hold station if anyone's in front'?

 

Yes, yes, I know, this board would explode.

[P123]

I think the Spain contact has opened up a small Pandora's box. I can't help but think if either of them are leading and the man behind makes an overtaking attempt, they can simply force contact to ensure it doesn't come off. It will seem like a racing incident and the driver behind will probably be chastised for a dive bomb. (This weekend only)

I think too that it is now abundantly clear that Rosberg has little to lose if there is contact. He can be very aggressive this weekend.

Regardless of internal policies, I think they've got one more big collision in them before excrement is thrown towards a ceiling fan in the debrief room.

The mere opportunity for a dive-bomb in Monaco is rare itself. I don't think Rosberg has little to lose either in such an eventuality.

[Marklar]

Probably better questions than the stale F1 press junket mob will manage to muster over the weekend.

That's what I though as well when I saw that Lewis Hamilton gave an 30 minute (!) interview. The F1 press would be already happy about 5 minutes.....
 
To give Nico one time credit. His daughter is cute 

 

Back on topic: There is no way that the FIA would suspend drivers with little points on the super licence for a race just because they caused an incident (if this suggestion was seriously meant)
 
Personally I believe that already the Spain incident will change things. Surely they are on the final warning (in terms of being allowed to race). So one more incident will either cause that Mercedes will introduce the "who is leading after turn 1, stays ahead" rule or - if this is putting the championship under danger, because a contender is emerging - then they will likely use team orders. So knowing this will be more a problem for Hamilton. Based on this season so far he is usually (well, always!) the driver behind after turn 1 and he is the driver traling in the championship. Rosberg has less to lose in that sense. Very interesting to see how this will develop. So far this year Hamilton is lacking on the aggressiveness in turn 1, will it be even more now?

Edited by Marklar, 24 May 2016 - 19:00.

[jjcale]

 

18:40 "Nico will be over there conspiring"... LOL

 

"Even when we are 50 or 60 years old Nicio will be trying to beat me at something..."

 

The other thing to note is that ... LH is now a respected individual on the corporate scene... when did that happen??  .... I could see this guy giving after dinner speeches for a lot of money after he retires. 

Edited by jjcale, 24 May 2016 - 19:36.

[TomNokoe]

I don't know if it was ever mentioned, but Mercedes' insistence on rigid strategy surely played a tiny part on both drivers in Spain. If they gave their drivers more freedom then there needn't be such unheralded aggression on lap 1.

[hollowstar]

The Rivalry Awakens?

[jstrains]

What rivalry? Except Spain crash there was none

[TypeR85]

I don't know if it was ever mentioned, but Mercedes' insistence on rigid strategy surely played a tiny part on both drivers in Spain. If they gave their drivers more freedom then there needn't be such unheralded aggression on lap 1.

Trouble is with split strategies one driver is bound to get shafted one way or another.

[FrontWing]

I think the Spain contact has opened up a small Pandora's box. I can't help but think if either of them are leading and the man behind makes an overtaking attempt, they can simply force contact to ensure it doesn't come off. It will seem like a racing incident and the driver behind will probably be chastised for a dive bomb. (This weekend only)

I think too that it is now abundantly clear that Rosberg has little to lose if there is contact. He can be very aggressive this weekend.

Regardless of internal policies, I think they've got one more big collision in them before excrement is thrown towards a ceiling fan in the debrief room.

Thing is, Nico isn't that far ahead. If he DNFs this week and Kimi manages to win, his points gap is only 13 points. Granted, he has the better car at the moment and that Hamilton is his only real competition over the season, he still can't be overly aggressive yet.

Edited by FrontWing, 24 May 2016 - 19:32.

[FrontWing]

Trouble is with split strategies one driver is bound to get shafted one way or another.

See Max v Dan thread...

[TypeR85]

See Max v Dan thread...

Exactly and if it affects your favourite driver all of a sudden split strategies become idiotic or even worse.....

Edited by TypeR85, 24 May 2016 - 19:39.

[Riverside]

I don't know if it was ever mentioned, but Mercedes' insistence on rigid strategy surely played a tiny part on both drivers in Spain. If they gave their drivers more freedom then there needn't be such unheralded aggression on lap 1.

 

 You mean more so when Nico is in front. Because when it's Lewis leading - the strategy is pefectly fine with most of you.  Please don't try to say otherwise.

[Nemo1965]

Trouble is with split strategies one driver is bound to get shafted one way or another.

 

Exactly. Look at the Ricciardo-Verstappen split strategy in Barca that has a host of people in stitches of indignation. The only way you can avoid controversy is when the driver is upfront about the choice. 'Yes, I WANTED this strategy.' And not kind of, more or less blame the team: 'I don't understand why I had to do the 1-stopper/2-stopper/or whatever I can blame for losing the race.'

 

Well, when was the last time a driver took whole or shared responsibility for a chosen strategy? Can't remember...

[Nemo1965]

 You mean more so when Nico is in front. Because when it's Lewis leading - the strategy is pefectly fine with most of you.  Please don't try to say otherwise.

 

That is not fair. TomNoekoe has a point. Everyone knew before the race that passing another car in Barcelona was difficult... ESPECIALLY if you have the same car AND the same strategy as the guy in front. I believe that was the push for Nico to do the swerve and the push for Lewis to try to grab his chance as soon (too soon?)

 

If Nico and Lewis would not have had the same strategy in Spain, it could have played out differently.

Edited by Nemo1965, 24 May 2016 - 19:45.

[TypeR85]

Exactly. Look at the Ricciardo-Verstappen split strategy in Barca that has a host of people in stitches of indignation. The only way you can avoid controversy is when the driver is upfront about the choice. 'Yes, I WANTED this strategy.' And not kind of, more or less blame the team: 'I don't understand why I had to do the 1-stopper/2-stopper/or whatever I can blame for losing the race.'

Well, when was the last time a driver took whole or shared responsibility for a chosen strategy? Can't remember...

That's the thing, with these silly restrictions of communication, drivers these days don't have a clue what to do. That's why I think the sport would be better if we went back to using one set of tyres for the race.

Edited by TypeR85, 24 May 2016 - 19:49.

[andrewf1]

 You mean more so when Nico is in front. Because when it's Lewis leading - the strategy is pefectly fine with most of you.  Please don't try to say otherwise.

 

No, he didn't mean that, he had a valid point and you know it. Good job at being confrontational for the sake of it 

[Riverside]

No, he didn't mean that, he had a valid point and you know it. Good job at being confrontational for the sake of it 

 

 

 

 

 It's not being confontational at all.  Lewis and Nico have raced 62 races and have the same strategy applied in almost all races when they are running 1-2 and the only time

there are complaints is when Lewis is running second.  We saw it at the end of last year, big time in this thread.   

 

Putting forward strategy as a contributing factor to a collision on lap 1 is a stretch ... The point is not valid in my opinion.       

Edited by Riverside, 24 May 2016 - 20:10.

[FrontWing]

You mean more so when Nico is in front. Because when it's Lewis leading - the strategy is pefectly fine with most of you. Please don't try to say otherwise.

I swear you seem to copy and paste this reply every time the topic of split strategies is so much as whispered.

The rigid strategy from Merc will only last as long as they still have a sizable gap to the next team. As soon as another team is close, like the battle between RB and Ferrari in Spain, Merc will have no choice but to split strategies.

Edited by FrontWing, 24 May 2016 - 20:14.

[TypeR85]

It's not being confontational at all. Lewis and Nico have raced 62 races and have the same strategy applied in almost all races when they are running 1-2 and the only time
there are complaints is when Lewis is running second. We saw it at the end of last year, big time in this thread.

Putting forward strategy as a contributing factor to a collision on lap 1 is a stretch ... The point is not valid in my opinion.

So why did Mercedes put Rosberg on differnt strategies in 2014?

This year Hamilton has been left in the dark when out of position. Take for example Bahrain, he wasn't once given the opportunity to use the undercut on Kimi, last year at the same race Nico was given the undercut on Vettel and nearly passed Hamilton in the process given the massive undercut delta.

[Riverside]

So why did Mercedes put Rosberg on differnt strategies in 2014?

This year Hamilton has been left in the dark when out of position. Take for example Bahrain, he wasn't once given the opportunity to use the undercut on Kimi, last year at the same race Nico was given the undercut on Vettel and nearly passed Hamilton in the process given the massive undercut delta.

 

The discussion is that strategy contributed to the collision...   not who / when / where a driver had a different strategy at Merc.   

[TypeR85]

The discussion is that strategy contributed to the collision... not who / when / where a driver had a different strategy at Merc.

So you admit it's been a bit more one sided these last few years than equal?

I wouldn't say strategy helped cause it but maybe it would make a driver attack like mad on the first lap knowing how difficult it is to overtake there. But this is Lewis Hamilton here, can't say he's ever been a man to turn down an overtaking opportunity.

[Marklar]

Putting forward strategy as a contributing factor to a collision on lap 1 is a stretch ... The point is not valid in my opinion.

So let me check
- overtaking? Nope
- strategy? Nope
- start? Yes

So yes, the difficulty of overtaking & (in this case) the lack of strategy are forcing the driver to be ahead after lap 1 and hence increases the likehood for 1st lap incidents. This is an very valid point. Of course this applies to both drivers, but nobody suggest something else

[TomNokoe]

Riverside, 2016 cars on equal tyres are very hard to follow. We saw in Spain between the leading 4 that strategy is still a viable option to jump positions.

 

At Mercedes, this avenue is closed.

 

Rosberg said himself it was "his race to win", at turn 3 on the first lap for goodness sake!! Both drivers know how important it is, and they acted accordingly. 

Edited by TomNokoe, 24 May 2016 - 20:40.

[Riverside]

So yes, the difficulty of overtaking & (in this case) the lack of strategy are forcing the driver to be ahead after lap 1 and hence increases the likehood for 1st lap incidents. This is an very valid point. Of course this applies to both drivers, but nobody suggest something else

 

 Aggression on the start is a given in motorsport.   Why just now are we talking about strategies affect on starts after 62 races with these guys?   Seriously....

[TomNokoe]

 Aggression on the start is a given in motorsport.   Why just now are we talking about strategies affect on starts after 62 races with these guys?   Seriously....

Because in 2013+14 it was certainly no issue. Only last year and this has it dawned on drivers and fans how significant it is. All through last year we would wait for the inevitable overtake to prove it could be done, but slowly, slowly it never did. 

[TypeR85]

Because in 2013+14 it was certainly no issue. Only last year and this has it dawned on drivers and fans how significant it is. All through last year we would wait for the inevitable overtake to prove it could be done, but slowly, slowly it never did.

Don't know if I'm being too critical of Lewis but don't you think he struggles more than Nico trying to follow other cars closely? Although he generally passes car quicker he appears to suffer more in the dirty air.

[Ricardo F1]

All I want from a journalist this weekend is to find out from Nico why he was in the wrong engine mode.  I still cannot fathom it was by mistake.

[Jvr]

Well, when was the last time a driver took whole or shared responsibility for a chosen strategy? Can't remember...

I think Vettel took shared responsibility of his strategy at last race and told he wanted to go an aggressive one...

Did you miss that?