80 replies to this topic

[MP4/?]

I'm very disappointed:

Why people here hate Ron Dennis? He is a genius as Enzo Ferrari, Colin Chapman, Frank Williams, Jack Brabham, and a few more... He bought a midfield team in 1981 and in three years won his first championship with TAG-Porsche... he introduced the carbon fiber chassis... Then with Honda from 1998 to 1991 made McLaren a legend in the sport.... Also he promoted the McLaren F1 (the first street McLaren) which is the most expensive and fastest street car on the world (working with BMW engines)...

Now working with Mercedes he has won the championship in 4 years and making a good driver as Mika is a star... Also they are working now in the Mercedes SLK McLAren the second street McLaren...

I think that people that hate Ron Dennis don't know what they are talking.....

[baddog]

Originally posted by MP4/?

I think that people that hate Ron Dennis don't know what they are talking.....

Some of us can respect his unquestionable ability and achievements, while finding his apparent personality and public behaviour hard to stomach.

Indeed anyone who says ron is not supremely good at what he does don't know what they are talking about. They are few and far between though.

Shaun

[Hooster]

I don't hate him but I do have a low opinion of him. His greatest failing in my opinion is his hypocracy.

[Greg L]

I actually like Ron Dennis quite a bit. His tenacity and will to win are tremendous, and he is supremely loyal to his team and to his drivers. Still, it does act like kind of an ass from time to time. He often bitches about Ferarri or MS when it really isn't necessary, though how many of his comments are taken out of context I couldn't say.

He always sticks up for his drivers, though, and his skills as an F1 team manager are unquestioned. As baddog says, we all must respect at least his abilities as a manager, even if we don't agree with him. He just seems to have a personal thing against Ferarri and MS, because I never hear him bitching about any other teams or drivers. At any rate, any manager who can keep Senna and Prost driving on the same team for two years is a genius, and I have a great deal of respect for what he has built at McLaren.

[ehagar]

Ron Dennis a Colin Chapman? No way... Colin was a brilliant Engineer who borrowed heavily from the aircraft industry and set the example of how a race car should be made. Always adopting new concepts and ideas to stay ahead of the more affluent Ferrari.

Ron Dennis was a mechanic with a penchant for perfection. A good mentality to have in this modern day but he comes across as SOOOO corporate. Wasn't the TAG Mclaren more Barnard's baby though? Gordon Murray the road car?

I guess some people's dislike of Ron is not his accomplishments, but his corporate blandness. 'Ronspeak' as some people call his phraseology. I find what he has to say quite a bore really.

I don't hate Ron Dennis, I just find him a bit dull, that's all.

I'm a Colin Chapman fan at heart. Gives Engineers like me inspiration...

[Nikolas Garth]

MP4/?,
How unaware are you????

It is obvious the reason people dislike wRONg, it is because of the constant bullshit he speaks. Contrast him with Frank Williams.

Williams is just as successful, but universally more highly regarded as a person, because he is not speaking **** all the time.

[MattFoster]

Why do you think Ron would give a **** what people say about him?

[schumigal]

Like most of you here, I respect Ron Dennis and think he is one of the best team owner/manager in f1 business. His management capabilities is outstanding, and i can't imagine how anyone can doubt it considering his success in f1. His human skills is lacking though. There is not need to take cheap shots at Ferrari and MS whenever he can. I think he's the most critical team manager of MS/Ferrari in the whole f1 lane. While Ferrari/MS deserves part of the criticism, they certainly dun deserved Ron's undivided attention. I have never seen him critisicing anyone as intensively as MS/Ferrari. From that i figure he must be pretty obessed with MS/Ferrari! Hmm, if MS did end up joinning Mclaren, i wonder what he will say about MS then.

[Lamont]

He runs a good organization, but some of the things that he says are quite frankly repugnant.

[MuMu]

He's regularly beaten Ferrari, which makes him a very unpopular man.
He's also had run-ins with Max Moseley over the fact that Ferrari is being favoured, which makes the Ferrari fans' blood boil.
I think he's an excellent manager who speaks his mind.

[ZZMS]

I think his lows come from his high. He is so determined to win, so focused that it makes him the worst sorest loser I ever saw. Yet he is genius for the simple stat he had achived. I admire him and cannot stand him alltogether

[JayWay]

Nik, a reliable source has told me that although RD comes off as an ass in the press, the truth is everyone in F1 is like RD.

[Pascal]

Originally posted by MP4/?
he introduced the carbon fiber chassis...

I would say that John Barnard did...

Ron Dennis is a remarkable team manager whose strength has always been to surround himself with the best technical people available, such as John Barnard, Gordon Murray, and Adrian Newey. I have great respect for his work, but I often find his antics pretty tiring.

[JPMCrew]

I don't hate Ron Dennis. I don't even dislike him.

Richard Wagner was a genius, and dare I say I would have hated him.

[HP]

I dislike RD just for some of his behaviour and sayings in the past.

He is good on his job for sure, but you see in Imola he said something nice about the Williams, but it also indicated he is very racist, beside being a poor loser all of those years. E.g what he said came across to me, if it's not from UK, it must be crap.

I'd think his main character trait that bugs me, I would define as being stingy to the extreme.

[Gemini]

I admire the guy's achievement as a manager. The road he went through in last 30 years from being raceteam mechanic to multi multimilionaire in such a compettitive business is not to be forgotten. But at the same time I dislike him for what he says and for apparent way he disrespects many of his competitors.

[g0nz]

I don't think that anyone who knows the slightest thing about F1 can dispute that the guy is very clever and talented, but his atitude stinks. another thing that really gets on my nerves about him, is the fact that he can't loose without throwing his dummy out of his pram and accusing teams that have done better than his of cheating.

Ron =

[Frans]

I like Ron very much

[Spot]

I started watching GP in 1979, before wRONg appeared on the scene. The thing that has struck me about what he has dun to F1 is that he has totally screwed it up.

Before the RD era, F1 was still essentially a sport. Then along comes wRONg, and ups the ante to such a degree that it swings towards being a business. FW, who was on top before RD, along with BE, Renault, Toleman, et al, suddenly found that instead of battling on the tracks, they were now having to battle in the boardrooms, increase the number of staff by about 400%, and generally stop behaving like sportsmen and start behaving like businessmen.

THAT is why I don't like wRONg.

[MrAerodynamicist]

You can't blame Ron for having to increase staff number and the increased business aspect. Its a sport and the aim is to win - any advantage is an advantage so if it wasn't Rom then sooner or later. somebody else would have. And F1 wouldn't be that different. Besides no one person is responsible for the change. Technology has just driven technology, costs have gone up and the best way to get more money to spend is to run it in a proper business fashion.

[Dr.Raj]

Originally posted by Frans
I like Ron very much

Somehow that doesn't surprise me. RonMSH is just like you.;)

I don't like the way Ron runs his mouth endlessly about Schumacher and Ferrari. He has a real complex. Otherwise he's okay.

[T4E]

I asked the same question here a long time ago and the answers I got back then were pretty similar to these...

I am too a bit confused with the criticism he gets here all the time. The problem seems to be that people are taking a bit too seriously the things he says about other teams etc. I consider all that just pure politics -- the way things must be done these days (as shown by FIA & Bernie several times).

Of course the public align of a team must be as assertive as possible. Otherwise you are considered weak. That's what Ron is doing.

I'm sure that behind the formal Ron there is quite nice a chap, but his job isn't to be a mr niceguy. His job is to win. And he sure has done his job quite ok over the years.


T4E

[RichardB]

TE4,

There is another thread currently running which gives the lie to your assumption that Ron Dennis might be 'quite a nice chap' away from the public glare. In fact he comes across as an arrogant asshole.

[Max Torque]

Originally posted by MuMu
He's regularly beaten Ferrari, which makes him a very unpopular man.
He's also had run-ins with Max Moseley over the fact that Ferrari is being favoured, which makes the Ferrari fans' blood boil.
I think he's an excellent manager who speaks his mind.

Wise words.
I am SURE that he wouldn't be hated that much if his critisism and victories affected another team than the world-loving Ferrari and the world-loving Schumacher these past few years.
Would so many people say all these things if he was constantly critisizing Williams instead?;) NO. They wouldn't really care, or they would even stop to think if he has a point to what he says. Now, they just dismiss him because they don't like precious Ferrari being attacked. He MUST be wrong. What else could it be? Ferrari the villains? Nooo! Impossible! We love the red cars very much!

That said, I recognise that there are others, non-Ferrari people that hate him too. But these guys are few and either have some other grudge against him (JV fans perhaps, for example) or are just convinced by all the anti-Dennis hysteria going on.

Ron is an excellent proffesional. The most successful at what he does at the moment.
And he always speaks his mind which is the absolute opposite of being a hypocrite.

[obi-one]

Originally posted by Max Torque


Wise words.
I am SURE that he wouldn't be hated that much if his critisism and victories affected another team than the world-loving Ferrari and the world-loving Schumacher these past few years.
Would so many people say all these things if he was constantly critisizing Williams instead?;) NO. They wouldn't really care, or they would even stop to think if he has a point to what he says. [/B]

I disagree,
I am a Ferrari and MS fan and it is because he criticises his top competition that I let his comments slide.

If he were to say the same thing about Williams, Jordan, Minardi etc. then that would be proof that he is an idiot.

MS and Ferrari can take it, there men, but Ron has the mouth of a spoiled child.

[asterix]

Team Manager - Good Man
Human Being - Sad Twisted Dude with Hair on his palms

[daydream]

hey guys don't get me wrong, I am actually a fan of Ron Dennis, but as much as i would like to protect him , i can't


This guy Ron Dennis is just too weird, he is too obsessed with many things. I don't blame the others for hating him because he deserves to be hated.
I pity Ron Dennis because his unhealthy obesession is driving him nuts



as a fan of Ron Dennis,...i hope that he will change for the better

[BRG]

Originally posted by daydream
hey guys don't get me wrong, I am actually a fan of Ron Dennis

Well daydream, you have a funny way of showing it - in another thread, you claimed he was insane or mentally unsound. With fans like you, does Ron need enemies???

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by daydream
hey guys don't get me wrong, I am actually a fan of Ron Dennis, but as much as i would like to protect him , i can't

I know, you also happen to be a JV fan, that's why you post things on the border of slander about him.

This guy Ron Dennis is just too weird, he is too obsessed with many things.

Pot ? Here's kettle. I have news for you: you're black.

I don't blame the others for hating him because he deserves to be hated.

Deserves to be hated !? What is it that you admire in him, BTW ?

I pity Ron Dennis because his unhealthy obesession is driving him nuts

That nutcase, according to you, is accomplishing things, his value as a manager is recognized in the F1 circle and makes loads of money in the process. I think that he won't loose to much sleep over what a random poster on a BB thinks of his sanity.

As a fan of Ron Dennis,...i hope that he will change for the better

Gee, with fans like you, who needs detractors.

The_Z_Man

[bleakuzs]

Respect Ronnie baby, don't be daft. He gives asses a bad name.

[Spot]

Mr. A - I blame wRONg because he did it. If anyone else had done it I'd blame them instead. It's nothing personal.

Max T - I don't like wRONg, but I'm not a Ferrari fan either. For such a supposed professional, he has a tendancy to open his mouth and put his foot in it.

[Smooth]

Hooster and Shaun nailed it. He is very good at running his team, very bad at running his pie-hole. Not too many people are keen to support a whiner, and that is what Ron is.

[The Voice of Reason]

A lot of people seem to be dissing Ron by saying he has a chip on his shoulder. Well that might be true but isn't it understandable when Ferrari get the benefit of every decision the FIA makes.

No doubt the Red Brigade will deny this but the weight of evidence is against you.

I think we would qualify as crazy if he didn't have a chip on his shoulder.

[daydream]

Originally posted by Spot
Mr. A - I blame wRONg because he did it. If anyone else had done it I'd blame them instead. It's nothing personal.

Max T - I don't like wRONg, but I'm not a Ferrari fan either. For such a supposed professional, he has a tendancy to open his mouth and put his foot in it.

Is Ron Dennis a monkey??......how can he put his foot in his mouth so easily?? Only monkey can do that ......I think Ron Dennis is the human race with alot of monkey characteristics in his genes

[MuMu]

Originally posted by HP
it also indicated he is very racist, beside being a poor loser all of those years. E.g what he said came across to me, if it's not from UK, it must be crap.

Ron thinks if it's not from the UK then it's crap? Like Mercedes, Honda, Porsche, Peugeot? Like Senna, Hakkinen, Prost, Berger?
Can you actually give me one example of anything he ever said that has even the slightest hint of the kind of accusations that you're making, except for the fact that he criticizes Ferrari and Moseley (who's from the UK)?
I think not.
It's a perfect example of the kind of hysterical, baseless rubbish that's hurled at him all the time from those who have no clue.

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by Smooth
Hooster and Shaun nailed it. He is very good at running his team, very bad at running his pie-hole. Not too many people are keen to support a whiner, and that is what Ron is.

Well a whole lot of people on this BB whine about him too and are self-declared experts on what he thinks and what are his motives.

The_Z_Man

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by daydream





Is Ron Dennis a monkey??......how can he put his foot in his mouth so easily?? Only monkey can do that ......I think Ron Dennis is the human race with alot of monkey characteristics in his genes

I ask again, what is that you actually admire in him ?

The_Z_Man

[Smooth]

Originally posted by The_Z_Man
Well a whole lot of people on this BB whine about him too and are self-declared experts on what he thinks and what are his motives.

The_Z_Man

'We' are not the head of a multi-million dollar F1 team, with access to all the worlds motoring press. I am no self declared expert, but you wish to portray yourself as one? Ok.

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by Smooth
'We' are not the head of a multi-million dollar F1 team, with access to all the worlds motoring press.

Who is 'We' ? And more to the point, what's the relevance of this ?

I am no self declared expert, but you wish to portray yourself as one? Ok.

I'm referring to the people who wrote things about his motives and thoughts processes in the Why Ron Dennis hates Ferrari thread.

If you see me proclaiming myself an expert on RD motives and thoughts processes and motives from that, well, what can I say, I can't control what you, or anybody for that matter, understand of my posts.

The_Z_Man

[Smooth]

Friday August 25th, 2000

McLaren boss Ron Dennis said on Friday that he would rather risk his drivers crashing than introduce team orders.

"The drivers don't drive for themselves, they drive for the team and there is a strict policy of equality within McLaren," he said.

Saturday October 21st, 2000

Ron Dennis
"We believed that it was possible his statements in the drivers' briefing could impact upon the legitimate use of team orders at a time when such tactics might be of more benefit to our team,"

Sunday August 29th, 1999

However, Dennis stressed that he is not ruling out using team orders later in the season, if it will be needed. "There will be a time when we influence the outcome of Grands Prix," Dennis said. "That certainly wasn't today but it may well be in the latter part of the season."

Thursday September 16th, 1999

McLaren boss, Ron Dennis, is likely to apply team orders in the next three races, in favour of Mika Hakkinen - according to a report by Alan Henry in today's The Guardian.

Dennis explained to Henry that, "We work strenuously to treat both our drivers evenly and ensure that they are both equally favoured in terms of chances to win the world championship. Having said that, when we are seeking to close down the championship from a threat by another team, it is only logical to help the driver who has the best mathematical chance of doing so.

Monday March 9, 1998

Team-boss Ron Dennis declared that the same tactics will be used in Brazil, after that race it will the normal procedure. He stated: "The drivers drove for the team in Melbourne. It is an agreement for the first two races after Brazil they can go hammer and tongs at each other."

Saturday October 7th, 2000
Talking about the inclusion of Causo, Dennis avoided identifying him by name, but said: "It's unsatisfactory in a race which could decide the world championship that one of the stewards is Italian."


Monday March 19th, 2001

Ferrari's technical director Ross Brawn has hit back at the accusations made by McLaren boss Ron Dennis on Sunday after the Malaysian Grand Prix, where the Italian team took a dominant 1-2 win.

Dennis questioned his rivals' decision to switch to intermediate tyres during the race when the track was flooded by a torrential rain, suggesting that such a move put the lives of their drivers in danger.

"The decision to put both drivers on wet tyres was the only responsible option when faced with the severity of the downpour," Dennis said. "You can't play around with drivers' lives. David (Coulthard) told us he was aquaplaning at 60mph behind the safety car."

Saturday October 23rd, 1999

Ron Dennis
"But even if there is no advantage - that is also irrelevant, because the regulation states that if it doesn't comply, then it doesn't matter if there is no advantage gained."

Tuesday October 19th, 1999

The McLaren team has issues an official statement, calling for the FIA to leave Ferrari's disqualification from the Malaysian Grand Prix intact. McLaren also plan to appear in front of the Court of Appeals this coming Friday, and make their stand against reversal of the ban known to the Court.

Sunday July 30th, 2000

McLaren chief Ron Dennis said in comments published on Sunday, prior to the race, that he had little respect for Formula One rivals Ferrari.

"I don't know what Ferrari think about McLaren but I have to say I don't have that much respect for Ferrari," Dennis told German Sunday newspaper Welt am Sonntag. "I don't like the team's policy."

The interview appeared one day after Dennis accused the Italians of trying to get both of his cars disqualified following the Austrian Grand Prix.

Dennis said Ferrari had sent a letter to the FIA to try to influence the outcome of a stewards' hearing after defending world champion Mika Hakkinen's car was found to be missing a seal following his win.

[Todd]

Just how young are all the participants here these days? Nobody has touched on the issue that caused Ron to lose favor with me. I supported the McLaren-TAG-Porsches, but Ron pissed in the well when he used Frank Williams' debilitating road accident to convince Honda to lose faith in Williams and change teams. I haven't had anything nice to say about Ron Dennis or Honda since. Ron will be hanging out in Hell with Honda's mid-'80s management. They are amoral flotsam.

[The_Z_Man]

Smooth, those quotes are good and everything, but I fail to see how they address my point that many people also whine about RD, and in the Why Ron Dennis hates Ferrari were apparently talking as if they were privy to his inner thoughts and motives.

And how come you see me portraying myself as an expert about what RD thinks.

The_Z_Man

[Smooth]

Originally posted by The_Z_Man
Smooth, those quotes are good and everything, but I fail to see how they address my point that many people also whine about RD, and in the Why Ron Dennis hates Ferrari were apparently talking as if they were privy to his inner thoughts and motives.

And how come you see me portraying myself as an expert about what RD thinks.

The_Z_Man

Read the thread topic. Your point? Pointless. Why should I bother.... that is another thread. If I felt like elaborating further I would go to that thread.

[gray_cat]

Mp4/?, you seem to have some strong opinions yourself when writing : Briatore is a cheater as Ross Brawn is.... The started with maFIA in their days at Benetton... Both are the dark side of F1 And I didn’t see you respond to all the posts showing that your knowledge about history and personalities in F1 is a bit light.

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=20188

You have no problems with making unfounded accusations and passing ill-advised judgments about people you don’t like, for whatever reason, but become 'dissapointed' when some you like are getting their share of criticism – not very consistent ;)

Firstly, what Ron Dennis did not do :

* He did not introduce carbon fibre chassis;
* His role in developing TAG-Porsche engines was the same as Jean Todt’s in developing Ferrari V10;
* He did not promote McLaren F1 road car, and new Mercedes Supercar – this was done primarily by other people;

Now, what Ron Dennis did do :

* He brought total commercialization into Formula One;
* He became very good in making deals and raising money – money that paid for all things he didn’t do, described above;
* He did organize garage-style McLaren operations into modern factory and assembled talented people around it;

In short, Ron Dennis is a businessman administrator, if you like the type – Ron is your man.



Ron Dennis is known for breaking the rules here and there – McLarens were disqualified from many races for non-complient cars.

Ron Dennis is known for not very ethical business practices, like snatching Honda contract behind the back of his ‘friend’ Frank Williams when Frank had his accident.

Ron Dennis has big mouth and often talks hypocritical nonsense.

[BRG]

Now, what Ron Dennis did do :

* He brought total commercialization into Formula One[/B]

I rather think that was Bernie Ecclestone - after all he is the one who has amassed (according last weekend's papers in UK) a £3 billion fortune out of F1. Ron Dennis was just one of several team owners on the FOCA side of the FOCA/FISA war. Commercialisation started long before Ron Dennis took over McLaren. Finger Chapman or Mayer or Stewart and Tyrell if you will - that was when the rot set in.

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by Smooth
Read the thread topic.

I already have.

Your point? Pointless.

That those who accused him of being a whiner, which I believe him to be, for the record, also spend some time whining about him ? You don't like the irony of it all ?

Why should I bother....

Can't help you there, it's your decision.

that is another thread. If I felt like elaborating further I would go to that thread.

Sure.

The_Z_Man

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by The_Z_Man
That those who accused him of being a whiner, which I believe him to be, for the record, also spend some time whining about him ? You don't like the irony of it all ?

So your whining about others whining about wRONg whining all the time?

[daydream]

Originally posted by The_Z_Man
I ask again, what is that you actually admire in him ?

The_Z_Man

hey Z_Man .......you don't have to admire someone to become his fan. When you are falling in love with someone, it just happens even if that person sucks big time

Same happens to me here.....it is always like that, I am talking about being a fan of JV and Ron Dennis.

I just love JV and Ron Dennis, a part of my heart tell me to protect JV and Ron Dennis in this BB,......but the other part of me told me not to protect them and tell the truth about JV and Ron D no matter how much the truth is gonna hurt me
You guys thought i just criticize them for fun??,,,,,,if you guys think so, then you guys are dead wrong.

I feel hurt whenever i criticize JV and Ron coz i am their big fan.
I am always having conflict within my self. It looks like towards the end, the way i was brought up made me choose the unbiased stance towards anyone, AND I AM PROUD OF MYSELF FOR DOING THAT!!!!! This is my value..... in which i hope JV and Ron Dennis have!!!

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by Nikolas Garth

So your whining about others whining about wRONg whining all the time?

If pointing out that people are spending some time whining about RD's whining is whining, I'd say yes.

The_Z_Man

[Pink Panther]

as an F1 manager he is excellent, as a person.....well, forget it....