26 replies to this topic

[OO7]

I've created the topic, so it's your turn to discuss.................................  

[oetzi]

Poo

[superden]

Made of cheap plastic.

[johnmhinds]

Ford didn't do much with Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo or any of the other endless companies they've owned over the years and did next to nothing with.

Edited by johnmhinds, 15 June 2016 - 22:26.

[SR388]

Well they are owned by Fiat, which is like ford, except with much worse quality.

[senna da silva]

[Amphicar]

Ford would never have commissioned the GT40 if they had been able to buy Ferrari. The GT40 was specifically built to beat Ferrari at Le Mans in retaliation for Enzo's refusal to sell. So there would be no Ford GTs racing this weekend to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the GT40s first Le Mans win.

[scheivlak]

I've created the topic, so it's your turn to discuss.................................

Maybe Ferrari would have won the Indy 500 a few times by now?

 

That said, I think the thread belongs to TNF.

[YoungGun]

F150's would be worth much more? 

[D28]

I cannot say, but I imagine Ford would have divested itself of Ferrari decades ago,if ever it had purchased controlling interest in 1963.Likely it would be where it is today, part of the FIAT group, the only patron/partnership arrangement that makes any sense then and now.

 

Enthusiasts would have been short changed, missing the classic Ford-Ferrari and Shelby-American-Ferrari battles of the mid sixties.

Also possibly missing would be the three World Constructors titles of 1975-77 for Ferrari. Ford's record with Jaguar in F1 is not great. O wins over 5 years, does not speak highly for a corporate directors approach to F1 racing. As for an engineering genius like Mauro Forghieri, who could be temperamental by times, just how would he have fitted in with the Dearborn executive board?

 

The Fiat buyout, arrangement whatever it was brought some discipline and resources to production facilities, allowing Enzo a very attractive racing budget. They just nudged him toward F1, not F2, Prototypes, GTs Can-Am. etc.

 

With FIAT Ferrari achieved great racing success, and also produced some iconic automobiles. The 365 GTB Daytona 1968 is but one example. Would a Ford committee have approved such a model? I sincerely doubt it and shudder to think of suggested improvements.

Ford and Ferrari is one merger that would never have worked out, I have trouble believing Enzo was ever serious about such a partnership in the first place.

[FPV GTHO]

I'd like to think there would be some engineering transfer from Ferrari to Ford. Amongst the big 3 Americans Ford was already a bit of a pioneer with OHC V8's but they still weren't seen until the 90's in a mass produced product. They had Ohc development and race engines on the 60's so maybe with some leverage from Ferrari they could have gone into the 70's putting those into mass production. They may even have embraced engines bigger than V8's sooner than their V8 based V10 that came in the 90's with their OHC V8.

[CoolBreeze]

Who cares?

[Amphicar]

Maybe Ferrari would have won the Indy 500 a few times by now?

 

Yeah, maybe the Ferrari 637 might actually have raced, rather than becoming a very expensive museum piece.

 

For those who don't know, in the mid 1980s the FIA had tabled rule changes that Ferrari bitterly opposed. In response, Ferrari hired Steve Horne (team manager at Truesports) to run an IndyCar program and Gustav Brunner was given the task of designing a car - the Ferrari 637. It was powered by a purpose-built, 2.65 litre, single turbo V8 with the exhaust exiting in the middle of the vee, which reputedly produced 700 BHP. Michele Alboreto carried out back-to-back tests against a 1985 March chassis in the summer of 1986 and the 637 came out on top. 

 

 

 

The  Ferrari 637 was due to make its CART debut in the final race of the season at Laguna Seca in October1986, ahead of an entry in the Indy 500 the following year. However, before the Laguna Seca race, the FIA blinked and caved in to Enzo's F1 demands. Coincidentally (or was it?) new chief designer John Barnard then decided to scrap the 637 in order to focus on F1 and the 637 was never raced. So was it just an elaborate bargaining chip? If so, the message must have been don't play poker with Enzo Ferrari!

[Jon83]

Anarchy

[screamingV16]

Would Ford have bothered to finance the Cosworth DFV? Would Colin Chapman have got backing from elswhere... could have been the Vauxhall or Austin Cosworth DFV

[Amphicar]

Would Ford have bothered to finance the Cosworth DFV? Would Colin Chapman have got backing from elswhere... could have been the Vauxhall or Austin Cosworth DFV

Excellent question - in my opinion, the answer is almost certainly no. Ford and Aston Martin both turned Colin Chapman down when he approached them about providing the £100,000 development budget Cosworth required to develop the DFV. It was only when Chapman enlisted the support of Ford of Britain PR boss Walter Hayes that the money was eventually agreed by Ford's Detroit HQ. I reckon at that time, Dearborn's focus was primarily on the Indy 500 and Le Mans, with F1 a long way back in third place.

 

Back in the mid 60's General Motors had (officially at least) a "no racing" policy so I think Vauxhall funding for the DFV would have been unlikely. Funding from Austin or another of the BMC stable also seems doubtful - the mid 60s was exactly the time when market share, profitability and investment in new models were all falling drastically at BMC, triggering the 1966 merger with Jaguar and ultimately leading to the Government forced merger with Leyland Motors two years later. Perhaps Lotus would have had to soldier on with BRM engines for a few more years until the Gold Leaf sponsorship deal came to the rescue - we might be referring to the Players Gold Leaf DFV!

[f1paul]

No difference at all, that's my answer 

Edited by f1paul, 16 June 2016 - 15:24.

[oetzi]

Well you're wrong, because one of the world's most recognised brands and coveted objects would have been vastly different and had a different meaning.

Edited by oetzi, 16 June 2016 - 21:06.

[Calorus]

They would have bought them "synergised" them, then sold them at a loss.

[suggerla]

Yeah, maybe the Ferrari 637 might actually have raced, rather than becoming a very expensive museum piece.

 

For those who don't know, in the mid 1980s the FIA had tabled rule changes that Ferrari bitterly opposed. In response, Ferrari hired Steve Horne (team manager at Truesports) to run an IndyCar program and Gustav Brunner was given the task of designing a car - the Ferrari 637. It was powered by a purpose-built, 2.65 litre, single turbo V8 with the exhaust exiting in the middle of the vee, which reputedly produced 700 BHP. Michele Alboreto carried out back-to-back tests against a 1985 March chassis in the summer of 1986 and the 637 came out on top. 

 

 

 

The  Ferrari 637 was due to make its CART debut in the final race of the season at Laguna Seca in October1986, ahead of an entry in the Indy 500 the following year. However, before the Laguna Seca race, the FIA blinked and caved in to Enzo's F1 demands. Coincidentally (or was it?) new chief designer John Barnard then decided to scrap the 637 in order to focus on F1 and the 637 was never raced. So was it just an elaborate bargaining chip? If so, the message must have been don't play poker with Enzo Ferrari!

That is a beautiful car, shame it never raced. Thanks so much for posting this interesting story!

[Tony Mandara]

'The World' would be exactly the same as it is now.

..except that Ferrari would be owned by Indians.

[oetzi]

Forza India

[Amphicar]

'The World' would be exactly the same as it is now.

..except that Ferrari would be owned by Indians.

Red Indians of course!

[chhatra]

https://youtu.be/0lpY0Kt4bn8

[Atreiu]

Better

[Ian G]

Ford would never have commissioned the GT40 if they had been able to buy Ferrari. The GT40 was specifically built to beat Ferrari at Le Mans in retaliation for Enzo's refusal to sell. So there would be no Ford GTs racing this weekend to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the GT40s first Le Mans win.

IIRC Enzo agreed to sell but the Italian Govt. & Italian Public opinion went beserk when news of the sale leaked out and he had to backtrack.Ford could have another go with Ferrari being listed on the stock exchange.

[Peter0Scandlyn]

It'd still be flat of course!